This thread is for followers of Jesus Christ here to discuss faith and the gospel among themselves, and what we can do as Christians to help shift western politics and culture towards sustainable values.
This is not a thread to debate atheists, (please tip your fedoras in another thread) or argue the heresy/legitimacy of various Christian churches.
This IS a place to answer questions from open and curious anons who see Christianity as a well worn path out of degeneracy. God loves you (Yes, you.) and wishes the success and exaltation on all of his children.
/pol/ is a powerful place with strong cultural influence, but also a place full of Judgement. I urge /pol/ users who consider themselves Christian to consider Jesus teachings on judging others before shitposting. Through Christian morals and values, everything /pol/ stands for and wishes for the world can be achieved. By coming together and making these threads regularly we can shift the negativity of this place and truly turn it into the "path of light"
How do I proselytize to this girl?
How do I draw myself from this addiction to pornography?
>>79902002
My opinion; You must have an honest and unapologetic conviction that anybody could want to associate with. You must be able to articulate it and it must be good. I wouldn't worry about actually doing it, if a girl cares about you she'll care about you. If your Light is strong then those who wish to have it will seek it.
As for the pornography thing.. I felt the damage it was doing to me and realized I wanted to heal. Personally it made it hard to connect with women as human beings and not sexual objects. This altered every angle of my interaction with them and it felt disgusting once I had known the feeling of a real connection. It's embarrassing reflecting on what I would do or say to get into a woman's pants. The manipulation and cunning to only use another for selfish and carnal gain. It always felt empty, without substance afterwards every time - just like when I masturbated to pornography.
I find that knowing the good side of things (such as being healthy and fit versus the opposite, etc.) helps you to better yourself as the bad side makes you feel lesser and on a downward trend instead of an upward trend.
>>79900298
Is hentai a sin? My friend wants to know.
>>79902990
I am good at articulating the jubilance and magnificent, incandescent beauty of Christ and the religion of Christianity, I think.
I have spoke to her of how I view it and she agreed with me that she viewed my beliefs as beautiful as a sense, but didn't feel she could bring herself to share such beliefs because she had many very poor interactions with representatives of the faith as a child.
I find the hardest parts of trying to explain this to her is that we both suffer from clinical depression and she believes that we all merely here to live and then die, nothing more and nothing less, and personal experience makes her shy away from the religion, especially considering the existence of some groups like Westboro. I fear that I cannot show her this beautiful thing, anon, and it makes me sad.
I intend to meditate and think upon the pornography subject. It is not pleasant.
>>79903017
Are you going to criticize "Christian memes" with shitty memes?
>>79902002
>How do I proselytize to this girl?
I wouldn't push things much, especially if you're just getting to know her. Be open and unafraid about your personal faith, but certainly don't do anything that makes it seem like you are judging her for the way she is. The best way to open her heart would be to be an impeccable example of Christs love yourself. If she does not share your love of God then a relationship would not work anyway so there is no harm in being totally genuine about faith.
>How do I draw myself from this addiction to pornography?
This has been a personal struggle of mine as well. I find many addictions only hold sway over us because we are not finding connection with friends and family and more wholesome joys of life.
During Vietnam, many US soldiers were using Heroin. Everyone was worried when the war ended and they came home, we would have thousands of junkie veterans in the United States.
Amazingly, when the soldiers left the terrible warzone, and returned to their home towns to the love and support of their families, almost every one of them quit heroin effortlessly.
Pray that God give you the strength to overcome pornography, and forgive yourself if you do give in to the temptation. If we are angry at ourselves and carry guilt in our hearts, we are more likely to do things we know are bad for us because we may believe it is what we deserve.
http://www.pbv.thunder-bay.on.ca/NetSermons/2Samuel4-4str.html
This is a Story about King David and a crippled Grandson of Saul, which demonstrates Gods desire to have us all at the table of the King despite what may have happened to us.
>>79900298
>please tip your fedoras in another thread
No, you please circle jerk over your superstitions on another board.
I'm really struggling between the catholic and protestant. Both have convincing arguments.
>>79900298
>old testament = jewish shit
>new testament = Jesus stuff
Anyone who complains about the bible is usually talking about the Jewish cuck book.
It was only included to compare to the new book.
>>79900298
Do you genuinely believe in Christianity? Or do you only believe in it because you believe it is the solution to Western civilization's ills?
>>79903517
Watch your profanity
>>79900298
I just can't stop watching porn and fapping. It seems so hopeless.
St. Padre Pio, pray for me.
>>79904572
Christianity is the truth and only way to God.
>>79904572
Yes. I come from a Catholic family on my mothers side, and my grandparents are perhaps the most devoted Catholics in America. If I ever saw my Grandfather, he had already been to Church that day before I even got out of bed.
Growing up I never went to Church, but considered myself culturally Christian. I was an Atheist in High School, but had an awakening of sorts shortly after that made me a very spiritually minded person, but in a non religious New Age sense.
Over time I began to see the fruit of the New Age buffet as all my associates were continually spinning in circles, not building careers or starting families.
Some time ago I became very depressed, and was drunk and watching pornography for about a week straight. I had been a beacon of strength to others, but this was my rock bottom.
I asked for help, and to my astonishment the one who answered the call was Jesus. The God of my ancestors I ignored for so long had made himself known to me again, and I have been studying the Gospel and even considering becoming a pastor ever since.
>>79900298
Hello, Christ-fags.
Define the word messiah.
>>79905627
>A messiah (literally, "anointed one") is a saviour or liberator of a group of people, most commonly in the Abrahamic religions. In the Hebrew Bible, a messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern mashiaẖ, Tiberian māšîăḥ) is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.
>>79904365
Don't worry about "Protestant vs Catholic", just follow what you find to be true from either side. Personally, I think Protestantism has more going for it, but do your own research and come to your own conclusions on the matter.
>inb4 agnostic Malay guy spergs out at me
>>79904930
Idle hands are the devil's plaything. Just keep yourself busy and distracted, my friend.
>>79903517
Also to add to the pornography and my personal experience with it; I found that it helped me not look at women with lustful eyes. Which is a positive thing single or not. Especially with very attractive women, I tended to look for character and values and connection rather than acknowledging and being fixated their features. It's a beautiful and freeing experience and it opens doors to having genuine discussion and interaction. Everyone has something special to offer and it's awful to have to be blind to it and paint everyone the same color for an empty lust.
>>79904365
You traditionally would have decided on Anglicism then, It pretty much chose the best of both.
>>79903017
>memegenerator watermark
>>79904365
Time to look at History
>>79906707
The Anglican church allows faggot and women priests, and fag marriage.
>>79900298
>among themselves
Why exclude people, exactly? How many people did Christ exclude from Himself?
I am glad there are no Calvinists on 4chan
>>79907098
CALVINIST HERE BITCH
Do you like my church, /pol/?
I go there today for a funeral service.
An old bloke who was my neighbour. I used to get his shopping in and look after him. He had no family.
A lovely chap. May God rest his soul.
>>79906902
Traditional Anglican Church's haven't succumb to outright heresy just yet, although to be fair they're closer to Anglo-Catholics than mainline Anglicanism.
The theories and doctrine are still valid though.
>>79907365
ohnoherewego.jpg
>>79907365
Look at the horrid doctrine you believe in. I realized I ain't anti Prot, I just hate calvinism
>>79907091
/religion/ board when? I'm sick of moralfags and christfags on my board.
>>79900298
As a pagan I must you guys lost once you went soft.
Praise Odin
>>79907407
SINNERS GO TO HELL
>>79907458
If you're willing to be in communion with those churches you're just as complicit in their sin as they are.
>>79907407
Yeah it's a nice place.
Lord have mercy on your neighbor, and grant him eternal peace.
>>79907407
beautiful, thanks for sharing
>>79907533
/his/ was supposed to be encompass religion but there was no attempt to moderation and it descended into /lit/-tier filth.
I'm headed to be but if someone wouldn't mind praying for me tonight I would really appreciate it. My heart is fluttering and I'm starting to get worried that I might die before my wife.
>>79907509
YOU CANT GIVE ME ONE SINGLE GOOD REASON WHY YOU ARENT ONE
It's all based on emotion. You don't think about it at all, nor do you make the effort to try and understand it. It's beyond you
>>79904930
Think about heaven; it'll feel like that moment right before your orgasm from porn 24/7. It's worth the wait.
Just jerk off without porn. It's more fun that way anyway.
>>79907407
I thank based Caroline Divines for being anti calvinist
>>79907512
It's not about kindness - it's about intentionally excluding exactly the people you're *COMMANDED* to proselytize. That's fucking dumb as fuck, not "not nice".
Can you post the stories of how you came to Christianity and why it was that over other religions or non religions?
How do you balance your duties towards Christ and your duties to obey worldly authorities?
>>79907749
I can and I already had, your God is the author of all evil. He controls the fates of all. But he deceives by giving us all the illusion of control and self determination
>>79907769
>Think about heaven; it'll feel like that moment right before your orgasm from porn 24/7. It's worth the wait.
>Just jerk off without porn. It's more fun that way anyway.
YOU COMPARE HEAVEN TO A BASE BODILY FUNCTION AND FEELING?
Truly deplorable behavior
Abandon your cuckold ideology and convert to Zoroastrianism.
>>79907942
>I can and I already had, your God is the author of all evil. He controls the fates of all. But he deceives by giving us all the illusion of control and self determination
SO THATS WHAT YOU WANT? Controle
How can you submit yourself to god if you are so desiring for controle?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjYRUlesmqg
America Bless God
>>79907964
I concur - all hedonism and sentimentalism is degeneracy.
>>79908102
So you admit God as a liar?
>>79908000
>Come on guize just be sister fucking Persians
>>79907650
pic is inside. It's very old.
>>79907859
I came to Christ and got baptized this year. I was a hardcore atheist and evolutionist. I really enjoyed reading books and that ended up being part of my realization people were trying very hard to denounce the Christian God while ignoring others. Ironically focusing me in on researching Jesus Christ and first finding out he really existed and then I went from there to see the validly of the bible and then I came to terms with the fact that I had invested my entire life in a lie. The devil is the most subtle beast of the land. Deceiving us all into death and believing a lie. I have to go to bed or I'd say a lot more. I find the stuff in the link below helpful but ultimately I found Christ before all that. Jesus Christ is real and he will respond to a repentant person.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
>>79908226
You call him a liar, not I
Why so desperate for control? How can you think you have any real connection with God when you still desire so strongly for dominance over any and all situations?
>tip your fedoras in another thread
reactionary theism is the most fedora phenomenon that has ever existed.
Hello anons. I really want to believe in God, but I can't. Can anyone give me a hand? My reasoning for not believing is that there are so many religions that there is no way that my specific God (christian) can exist. I also reason that everything has a creator, so what created God? Not looking for a debate, just assistance.
>>79907091
I agree with you, and will remove that from future OP's.
>>79905416
Good for you and good luck.
>>79908516
Also, forgot to mention.
-I was baptized as a Christian, but never went to chruch.
>>79908491
I feel like I am in control of my actions and thoughts. Yet, if your beliefs are true, it entails that I am not. And it entails a deity who deceives for puppets are given the feeling and impression they are autonomous. Yet, we see that this is not the case.
I think you cannot influence politics. After all Jesus said he and his kingdom weren't of this world. Why not become Jehovah's Witnesses? They preach the good news and the Kingdom.
>>79908901
>>79909043
Calvinistic predestination is incompatible with Orthodoxy
>>79908910
Some of their beliefs are completely unjustifiable.
>>79908516
If there weren't any other religions Christianity could not be true. The Christian faith explicitly states that there are false gods, and that there are worshipers of false gods the world over. Given this claim the existence of other religions is necessary for Christianity to be true.
>I also reason that everything has a creator, so what created God?
The idea that everything needs a creator leads necessarily to an infinitude of past events to lead to the present, but we know that the past isn't infinite. Only those things that are contingent upon something else to come into being need a creator, but God being timeless, and outside of the contingent universe is noncontingent himself. Essentially there is no "before God".
>>79908901
>I feel like I am in control of my actions and thoughts
Why do writers get "writers block"? Why aren't they able to write the entire book in a very short ammount of time, without having any problems at all?
The ideas are there in their heads. They come out eventually. BUT they cannot will them out into exsistence. They had the ability to do it the whole time, yet they can't.
They do not have the ability to will all their possible ideas into their conscious minds whenever they choose.
Does that sound like they have complete control of their thoughts to you?
>>79907964
I mean you'll feel emotionally content, buddy. Porn is an emotional escape; a temporary psychological vacation.
There's no sexual reproduction on heaven/afterlife due to the lack of a biological state.
>>79904365
>>79903227
Lust is
>>79904221
Make me
What are your thoughts on the Hebrew origins of Christianity?
>>79904572
Genuinely :)
>>79909529
Delete this
Quick, and without Googling:
How many books are in your Bible?
>>79909461
Thank you.
>>79907098
I'm praying for you:)
>>79909739
Negligible
>>79909787
73
>>79909529
Writers will ideas and create by combining differing ideas. This is done by their own will based on a certain mechanism of thinking. But according to Calvinism this is not the case. The fact that writers block exists does not entail human beings having no control or self determination. It entails limitation and fallibility. It entails problems of the mechanism of thought used in the generation of ideas hence having to be refined or to combine different ideas than the one chosen. This is the same with the Libet experiment which Libet says that the mind can veto thoughts that arise to cancel them out. That entails some sense of control and self determination. But, according to Calvinism this cannot be. Man is but a puppet on a string.
>>79900298
Religion has the power to create entirely new races of people. How do you think the Jews were created? Over thousands of years the Jewish values presented by their holy texts literally shape their DNA. Power and wealth are seen as desirable by Jewish women, so as a result Jews have been getting progressively more kiked over thousands of years. Over time, the values and behavior a religion forces on a people will shape them into a race who's DNA reflects these values.
This is why Christianity is most likely a Jewish Trick. Just look at the values and behavior Christianity forces on White people. It encourages turning the other cheek and being a cuck, values virtue and kindness over power or wealth and encourages personal sacrifice and even self destruction for the benefit of others.
This just screams Jewish tricks. It describes the behavior Jews want for Whites perfectly. Submissive, and ignorant of Jewish interests. Over the past couple thousand years Christianity has transformed Whites into good goy cucks.
>>79900298
Christ is a foreign god. His followers were anti Roman communists. Christ perpetuates the myth that Jews are god's chosen people. The European spiritual tradition will be renewed and semite cults will not dominate our souls
>>79910015
I just wanna expose the horrid belief of Calvinism
>>79900298
Thanks to Jesus White people romanticize self destruction for others benefit.
Christian values promote the exact kind of behavior that is most easily exploited by Jewish interests. I find it hard to believe that this is a "pure coincidence"
>>79910015
Nah, Jews have hated Christianity since the beginning
>>79909739
I don't think Jews are evil. Some of the most incredible people in my life, including the nanny that helped raise me, were Jewish.
"da joos" of /pol/ fame didn't even exist back in Jesus time. I read recently an interesting take where someone said that God "chose" the Jews as "his people" in order to hammer the knowledge of his nature into them over time in preparation to receive Jesus.
I guess if there are evil Jews running the world today, they are the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees who condemned him.
>>79909598
>There's no sexual reproduction on heaven/afterlife due to the lack of a biological state
Then why compare it to an orgasm? There are in my opinion at least much nicer things in the world to experience. Things that have much more meaning.
If heaven was like a constant orgasm (as you put it), then heaven would be no greater than earth.
I could masterbate all day long and orgasm nearly all the time. I could do drugs that mimic that feeling. People have made machines that make mice have constant orgasms in order to study their behavior. I bet people could make a similar device but for humans.
Your heaven is no heaven at all
>>79910075
Does it make you mad that God is in control. I'm sorry that makes you so mad.
>>79903875
Compassion is a true virtue that can be found in all of humanity. To see it shine bright in you Anon, it's beautiful. It took me a long time to find God and Jesus but it was one of the best experiences and through prayer I have had many epiphanies about life and love.
Any atheist or non-believer in Jesus Christ, take heed. We are here on this planet to cultivate the soul. We have been given language and the ability to communicate with each other for a common goal of survival and understanding of our humanity. Evil is always a choice, and it is always the easiest choice. Being good is something that always requires sacrifice of something from our physical body. The soul is vitalized through being good, and vitalizing the soul is why we are here on this planet. Don't waste your time with indecision, do research, find out what you don't know, see the boundaries you can push within your mind, within your reasoning, within your soul.
That is how I found God, and Jesus Christ. That is where you will find what you are looking for. If you discover within yourself a servant of God, join us within Christendom, because it is the meek who inherit this earth.
>>79910221
I am not because I can be lazy and not take responsibility for all my acts. However, such a God is no loving God at all. He also Does't forgive
I'm somewhat deist but christianbros are cool.
Have a good one okay?
>>79907942
God is Franz Oberhauser?
>>79908242
How would I expect you to become a Persian? And why are you thinking about fucking your sister?
>>79910361
Of course you feel that way, I just hope he grants you repentance, because whether you find him loving or not, you still have to stand before him and face judgement
>>79910415
What is keeping you from putting your trust in Christ
>>79910501
Only if Franz wants to mind control everyone
>>79910136
You're insane
>>79910542
And that is a deceitful God who places
me responsible for acts he commit
>>79910649
You want to be in control and that is your problem
>>79910221
No one is mad that God is in the heavens - people just think you're rightfully stupid to completely reject that anyone can even possibly be morally culpable for their actions. Nothing is more nonsensical in relation to the Bible than that people cannot be judged, and that's exactly what determinists hold since you can't judge a fucking pebble for being moved by a tide - the pebble doesn't have a will, and in your retard-land neither do humans.
>>79910586
Eh, from what I can tell he is/was a top lad but I was never really religious.
Plus, I'm a paleontologist somthat 600 year/no evolution thing bothers me.
Still, Christians are generally great people.
>>79910615
What...?
You said Heaven was like an orgasm 24/7. Look up at the thread. That's what you literally said.
I'm saying why I think that's a ludicrous thing to say.
>>79910722
Funny isn't it how you are not addressing the problems I pointed out which go beyond control
>>79910732
Based Praceteomhime
>>79910775
Age of the earth is not a mandatory position to be a Christian
But if you want to look at the authenticity of the New Testament, look up cold case Christianity by j Warner Wallace on YouTube
>>79910775
Would the Omphalos hypothesis bother you? If so, what would be troublesome for you about it?
>>79910849
But what if me talking to you was Gods plan to receive the gospel, see how this can go both ways
does god watch my anus dilate when i take a shit? does he enjoy it?
>>79911073
You are not answering the problems I or Praceteom laid out.
>>79910732
What of all the people before Christ?
>>79910775
http://www.strangenotions.com/monogenism-or-polygenism-the-question-of-human-origins/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
Evolutionary theory is fine senpai. The big bang theory was first formulated by a Catholic priest who had to convince Einstein of the Big Bang Model of the universe.
>>79909598
>There's no sexual reproduction on heaven/afterlife due to the lack of a biological state
Is heaven the same basic thing for everybody?
>>79911073
It would be irrelevant either way, since "you" don't exist as an individual will in the first place. You'd be the literal equivalent of any other piece of matter in God's creation - no different than a rock or hydrogen atom. Trying to attribute a sense of self to you would be like talking about the decisions a leaf makes as it falls to the ground - nonsensical.
>>79911066
It doesn't make sense about fossils though, as they serve no purpose.
>>79910951
I might later, it's late.
Sleep tight guys.
>>79909739
Modern Rabbinite heretics are far, far different than the Israelites of the Old Testament. Have you every read about Kabbalah? It's immensely pagan, and modern day rabbinite heretics believe it to be sacred scripture passed down from Abraham when in reality it key texts originated in the Middle Ages.
>>79911179
What do you mean? What about them? I don't see what in what I'd said you're asking that question in relation to.
>>79911279
Heaven is Theosis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Orthodox_theology)
I know the article says it's Eastern Orthodox, but the Catholic church accepts Theosis also.
>>79911367
Does a mountain serve a purpose? How about every star in the sky? Their moons? Asteroids? I think they do, if only for aesthetics. And surely God has an aesthetic sense. You can't look at the world and read His Word and deny that.
>>79911179
Some people were saved by the promise of Christ to come, Jesus paid for the sins on the cross, some payments before Christ, some payments after Christ
>>79911378
What choice did they have?
>>79911503
Mountains shape the world and affect cropgrowing, building, biomes, climate,mand much more.
The moon affects tides.
The stars bring light on dark nights.
While they are aesthetic, they serve a purpose,unlike "fake skeletons of animals that never existed."
>>79911700
Every choice.
Also, I wonder. What do you guys think of ayyliens? I'm not an alien I just want to know what you think/would do if they were real no reason
>>79911548
Apparently this God beats up his own son so that he can forgive the puppets that transgressed him. And by that I mean God directly and intentionally
Making those puppets trangress against him.
>>79911702
I find fossils cool to look at - that's an aesthetic value. Just like a distant planet's moon by telescope. Just like a comet or asteroid. Just like any piece of art.
>>79911849
It's be interesting for sure, but wouldn't change my faith in Christ. Before evangelization I'd wait for an official statement from the magesterium on the issue though. I have no idea if Original Sin would affect aliens, or if they'd need Christ's salvation from it.
>>79911738
Oh but you see they didn't.
They were before Christs word so how could they know the choice existed? What about people that never heard his word and lived their whole lives unaware?
You say God gives all a choice, but those people certainly did not have one.
>>79911961
Eh, if that's what you think.
While I don't agree with you it was an interesting concept but I really have to go. It was a nice talk, and have a great time here.
>>79911898
Just repent and put your trust in Christ, and we can discuss Calvinism and Arminianism later :)
>>79912003
It would need us to somehow see Adam and Eve as some primodal persons that all persons regardless of being homo saipens are
>>79912109
I am cool with Arminians and the later Lutherans that realized Luther took his determinism too far. What I am not cool with are Calvinists
Any Anglo-Catholics here?
Amazing Hymns and Chants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWdSi0Xw4u0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-hrBhA4XkM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC6OKIYXBxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr5zDyceNcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZu8zFVDdY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X-4HRj8llI&list=PLC69E1CB32EC80E36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJMfpI4xhw&list=PLC69E1CB32EC80E36&index=2
>>79912032
>They were before Christs word so how could they know the choice existed?
The same way Abraham did, I'd imagine. Being faithful to God.
>>79912108
Night.
>>79912109
This desu :)
>>79912127
Crap I meant descended from, not "are"
>>79912248
According to Arminians, I am a person who is self determining, just weak and hence aided by god's grace. To the Calvinists, I am a ouppet
>>79912193
Fine, be a Lutheran, just put your trust in Christ
>>79900298
It's posts like this that remind me that the light of Christ reaches even the deepest darkness of Hell. Christ reaches even the wasteland of /pol through His disciples. Thank you, anon, keep spreading the gospel.
>>79912196
My argument still stands. Just apply what I said about Christ to God instead
>>79912318
Well, I'm an Arminian, so I'm inclined to agree, my friend.
>>79912195
Come home orthodox Anglicans. The church of Henry VIII is failing you. The Anglican ordinariate is there for you.
>>79912412
Abraham came long before Christ. Abraham is explicitly in heaven. Therefore the choice, or at the very least the opportunity would necessarily have been there.
>>79912318
What makes you think you are higher than a puppet? Deserving of it?
>>79912452
I am kinda curious, I'm a Calvinist, so I just have a question out of curiosity, did Jesus pay for the sins of everyone on the cross? And if so, then why are some people going to hell?
>>79904365
What about fundamental baptism?
>>79900298
>ctrl+f
>sky 1 result
>magic 0 results
I'm impressed, actually
>>79912490
So you are assuming this to be so? You are assuming what applied to Abraham would apply to everyone else.
>>79912624
I would like to hear this as well
>>79904365
Put your trust in Christ alone for your salvation
John 3
Read your Bible daily, start with Romans, and God will guide you along the right path
i hasten to call my beliefs Christian (of any denomination).
i believe in love and peace., but that's pretty much it.
>>79912725
>>79912624
They have a superiority complex. They want to feel superior to others. That is the root of their anti Calvinist thought
>>79912479
I am a member of a very "resistant to change" (lack of a better word) Anglican church. If the church tries to accept left-wing heresy (they aren't heretics yet), then I will leave.
Sadly, Anglicanism in the USA seems to be a sinking ship. However, I will be one of the last to jump from the ship before it gets fully submerged in heresy.
To your point, why should I go to Anglican Ordinariate? How is it different?
My current "Plan B" is the "Anglican Church in North America."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Church_in_North_America
>>79912624
Christ redeemed (not saved) all men on the cross, and offered his grace to us fully. We need to reach out and grasp the hand he's offered to us ourselves. Those who refuse to do so have opted to pay for their sins themselves.
>>79904365
read the Bible, follow your heart. Christ will provide. He has for me
>>79912666
Yes I am, because every human God has ever created has been as existentially important and loved by God as any other. That includes the people who reject God and find themselves apart from Him after Judgment - they all had their chance. Judgment would be nonsensical otherwise.
>>79912624
>did Jesus pay for the sins of everyone on the cross?
Yes, but only those who believe on Him will be saved, and everyone has the opportunity (in theory) to do so.
>And if so, then why are some people going to hell?
Because they don't believe on Him.
>>79908455
Thanks
bumping for more responses to >>79907859
>>79912941
So God loves all even when he puts them in hell for all eternity?
You can't have it both ways. Your reasoning is illogical and used only to confirm what you think you should believe
>>79900298
I've wondered not as much about the existence of a higher being, but where we go after we die for some time now.
The most comforting idea is Heaven/Hell or rebirth.
>>79912909
Colossians 2:14, sin is equated to being a leagal debt, and Jesus Christ paid that debt on the cross.
If someone's sin debt is paid, it would be unjust to send that person to hell.
If he paid it for everyone, than all go to heaven, but we know that isn't true Luke 16, so therefore Jesus only bore the sins of some people on the cross, not everyone
>>79912872
The Anglican Ordinariate is for Anglicans to come into full communion with Rome while maintaining their own liturgical tradition, including the use of the Book of Divine Worship.
>>79912909
So he did not save the men who came before him. They had no way of being saved
>>79907859
It's the most morally compelling of any conceivable ethical frameworks, such so that I was moved to place my belief in Christ and His Truth.
I don't recognize worldly "authorities" - I don't think there are any.
>>79907407
You seem like a good lad.
>>79912624
>did Jesus pay for the sins of everyone on the cross?
He redeemed mankind. He payed for the sins of those who accept his gift to us.
>then why are some people going to hell?
I like to think of all non-believers as "religiously starving." Jesus walks up to them and offers them a full banquet, but yet they say no. In turn, they perish because they did not accept Jesus's gift of life. Those who choose to believe are no longer "religiously starving" because Jesus has given them the "spiritual food" for them to live on in paradise for eternity.
That is not the best explanation, but I have found that people understand it very well.
>>79913009
>>79913252
Sorry I get a little tired of rewriting things
>>79913009
Prove to me that the men who came before Christ had the opportunity to be saved.
So far everyone has only assumption
>>79905416
I had a similar experience after dealing with psychedelic related anxiety (guy sold me acid, and it wasn't acid) for years. One day I just broke down and called out to Jesus to save me, to make me whole again, and in that moment something happened to me, He truly restored my countenance. He guided me to a new Church (more conservative Lutheran), where the Pastor took an interest in me, ultimately encouraging me to go to seminary. I'm headed off in the fall. Pray on the matter, anon, He'll guide you to your calling, if it is indeed the ministry. Don't be discouraged because of your path, He needs people like us who have seen and know sin, but who have truly seen the light of Christ and His power to conquer sin and amend our way of life.
>>79913210
God doesn't put you anywhere except into existence. You separate yourself from God when you reject Him. You thinking He Himself does the action is a misunderstanding of the position.
>>79900298
right so check this out
right now, sitting in a car, probably stuck in a bit of traffic, you know big city living and all that
He has just finished work at a office or warehouse or supermarket it dont really make much fucking difference just trading time for money
On his way out of work he says goodbye to sara working at the front desk (a spicy little number)
he jokingly asks if shes got any plans for the weekend "oh not much just hang with the boyfriend i guess"
A slight chuckle is all he can mange as he turns to the exit , a rage so pure and intense like gouts of flame spike into his soul all he can think about as he walks to his car is violently beating and raping the stupid whore sara fucking dumb bitch ill fuck life out of her he thinks has he brings his 1993 honda civic to life
he is on his way home now where soon he will lock all the doors, close all the blinds then put on his $10,000 usd pink and blue wolf furrie costume
and spend the rest of the night shoving bigger and more complex looking dildos up his arse, stretching out his urethra with a ballpoint pen and masterbating to child porn all live on webcam
this is the real world, people like that exist and worse they vote for hillary
all interpretation is lost just under the surface, can you tell the difference between a smile and a crocodile? are you sure? am not.
this is the real world, a world of illusions
>>79913375
You've been addressed.
>>79912490
>>79912872
I will certainly take that into consideration. I like the Roman Catholics. Sometimes it seems that they don't like us, though. :(
>>79913420
Again, you assume this. You assume from your point of view that men before Christ could be saved.
But that's all it is, an assumption. From your view if you were to be wrong that would mean God himself chose to put those men in hell.
Are you really going to think such an important thing based simply on assumptions?
>>79907692
Prayed for you, anon. The peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you forever and always. Call upon Him in your time of need and He will deliver you.
>>79913252
In 1 Corinthians 10:12 he makes it clear that those who'd accepted Christ's offer of salvation could fall away from it also by their own free will. The legal debt is only payed, so to speak, if you accept his payment.
>>79913292
Christ opened heaven to all of those in the Bosom of Abraham in his harrowing of hell (sheol specifically).
>>79913268
I meant to reply with this.
>>79913577
>>79913697
You assume that Abraham is a super special magical exception. Who's making the poorer assumption in Biblical context, given God values all humans (existentially) equally?
>>79913697
Christ paid for sins on the cross before and after wards
>>79913513
WRONG.
assumptions are not "addressing". Sad coming from you
>>79913372
Accepting Christ is tantamount to accepting the payment of debt, and everyone has the opportunity to accept the payment of their debt. If you don't accept Christ (who payed your debt), then you still have your debts.
>>79913825
Your assumptions are far worse. >>79913809
>>79913809
I don't assume that because I don't hold your non Calvinist view of things
>>79907859
born into Catholicism. Almost fell out of my faith a few times, eventually became non-denominational. I feel the Lord's presence and he speaks to me. Whenever I am in need, he provides. And that is why I believe in him.
>>79913577
I dislike the Anglican church and it's willingness to buckle to the demands of the world (even the most conservative churches in the Anglican commune are in communion with the Episcopalians). Any Anglicans who maintain the the traditions of the faith are deeply respected by me, but they're numbers are dwindling still. The Anglican Church used to be a respectable apostolic denomination.
A Question to Roman Catholics
I am currently an Anglo-Catholic, the more Catholic leaning branch of the Anglican (Episcopalian) Church. If I were to start going to a Roman Catholic Parish, would I have to be baptized again to be considered saved by that church or to take Communion?
>>79913252
My strong knowledge of Hinduism also colors my interpretation of Christianity.
I imagine at the time of Christ, the world had such a terrible karmic debt that humanity would fall into ruin. God incarnated as Jesus and through his sacrifice literally removed all negative karma from the Earth. What he also did was teach us how to keep us on the proper path. He knew sin would continue, and the world would continue to accrue the debt of sin, but also kept the agreement open that you can be forgiven of sin by believing on him, and essentially signing the new covenant God offered to us.
To me, accepting Jesus means more than just saying "Ok Jesus I believe in you please dont hold me accountable for my actions thx" Accepting Jesus as your Savior also entails the responsibility to make an honest effort to follow the teachings of Jesus as best as you can.
I don't know what happens when we die, and an eternal hell for finite punishment does not make sense to me. End times doctrine seems to speak of a time when everyone has the opportunity to leave hell. Punishment for punishment sake does not make sense to me, if only as a way to purify the soul for eventual reunion with God.
>>79900298
what does this mean?
https://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork
>>79913750
1 John 2:19
If they go out from us, then they were never of us, because if they were of us, than they would have stayed
So if someone leaves the church/Apostasy, they were never saved to begin with
Side note: I do believe Arminians who put their trust in Christ are saved.
>>79913961
I try my best to keep the traditions going.
>>79913881
Oh a *DETERMINIST*!
>>79910732
>>79911325
Have fun bro.
>>79913864
But our debt was paid on the cross, if your speeding ticket was paid for in court by someone else, than the court would be unjust in taking your money no matter how much you want them to
>>79912323
I still hate Calvinism like all the Arminians and Lutherans, Anglicans and Catholics that oppose it. I do not accept split personality God
>>79914122
Assumptions, ignorance, and false superiority. You will answer one day, we all will
>>79913313
Werent you that aggresive atheist tripfag? How did you go from fedora to believer?
What did you read that changed you so?
>I don't recognize worldly "authorities" - I don't think there are any.
Then what did you think Paul was talking about in Romans then?
>>79912554
Maybe it's because your god made all
Humans with the impression of self
Determination
>>79913494
Underated post.
Too deep for the Jew-cultists.
Why are you guys Jew cultists? You're not jewish.
>>79914018
No. All trinitarian baptism done with water are valid. At most if there were doubts about the validity of your baptism a conditional baptism would be done, but it's unlikely to happen since you come from the Anglo-Catholic tradition. You wouldn't be able to walk in and take communion though. You'd still need to do RCIA, and be brought fully into the Church. Confirmations are generally done around Lent and Easter, but depending on how much you already know or accept there could be arrangements made to accommodate you being accepted into the Church sooner (you'd be Confirmed, and receive First Communion then, and most likely by the priest with the Bishop's approval). If you wanted to join I'd recommend going to a nearby Catholic parish, and telling the priest your intentions, and your background. He'd guide you through everything after that.
>>79914325
I've never been an atheist in my life.
>>79914267
You assume you don't have a will. Which is *hilariously* nonsensical, given something without a will can't assume anything in the first place.
>>79914122
How do you get a tripcode?
I never learned how to do that.
Puppets by definition cannot hold steadfast in faith
>>79914325
>Then what did you think Paul was talking about in Romans then?
I'm not a Pauline Christian. I don't think Paul's word is equivalent to God's Word - I think he was doing what he was doing, and he probably (at least I tend to think) thought he was doing right. At the end of the day I'm going to take Christ's Words over Paul's where they contradict.
>>79914252
Denying Christ is essentially like denying the man's help to pay for your speeding ticket. You implicitly say that you choose to pay for the ticket yourself, though you are broke.
>>79914607
But the ticket was paid for on the cross Colossians 2:14
>>79914442
We've been over this.
It came down to you assuming and then telling me to start back at the beginning of the argument.
I get it, I really do. It's a hard thing to accept. But your arguments are not very well thought out, you so easily block out things you don't like. I doubt you'll ever accept. But I don't blame you
>>79914252
The thing is...the only reason why the whole atonement is seen as settling a big debt was not because it's Scriptural or even the context of Judaism but because of Medieval Catholicism.
>>79914709
You literally don't believe you have a will.
That's self-contradictory - your entire belief is inherently nonsense.
Something without a will can't believe something.
>>79914108
That passage is talking specifically about people in the apostles' day preaching a false gospel, not orthodox Christians.
>>79913697
the problem with your position is that it assumes linearity or causal reasoning which applies
to the physical world that only YOU know
that is, if you give into the concept of Christ or (God if you prefer) as a given, then none of those things are assumptions. you ask for evidence? you can't get it from your frame of reference.
so, a stalemate? I think my position is better, IMO. From a strategic standpoint; sort of like
Pascal's wager.
Ez
>>79914745
Until you put your trust in Christ, you don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm praying for you:)
Am I supposed to feel a certain draw to a specific Saint? How does the whole Patron Saint thing work?
>>79914695
For those who believe, yes.
>>79914892
Catholic dumbfuckery.
>>79914792
It says clearly that had they have been of us, they would have stayed with us. So you don't think that applies today
>>79914790
Again, we've been over this already. Look back at the thread.
It's a hard thing to accept. It'll be sometime before you are finally ready for it.
Until then you will keep living on assumption. and assumption and faith are incompatible
>>79900298
>his is not a thread to debate atheists, (please tip your fedoras in another thread)
Fuck off cunt, not all atheists are fedora tippers like you spastics think. Strawmanning faggot.
God bless you all
>>79914999
Are you autistic or something? Is anyone else following this conversation? I feel like I'm talking to a robot. Which is ironic, given that's what this guy effectively believes he is.
>>79914958
What denomination are you, brother?
>>79914864
This is simply Calvinist arrogance. Not once does any Calvinist actually bother answering my objections to it
>>79914893
I agree, those that Christ paid for on the cross, will come to repentance and belief sometime in their life
>>79915066
May God bless you too, my friend.
>>79915108
The Christian one.
>>79915119
I agree, I'm glad that we've come to an agreement.
>>79914442
Is that a new trip them because im sure a tripfag called praceteom used to run athiest generals here.
>I'm not a Pauline Christian.
How come, the other disciples accepted him and he was accepted by the church until very recently?
Do you think everyone has been wrong for about 1800 years?
>>79915090
I sound like a robot because you keep saying the same thing. So of course I give you the same answer.
It's ok you feel the way you do, I myself used to think the same thing. It's just somthing that takes time and anger will get you no where
>>79915251
Good so you believe in limited atonement
>>79914892
A patron saint would be a saint that you have a particular affinity for, and whom you offer special veneration to. We look at all the saints as great followers of Christ to model our lives after, and your patron saint would be who you specifically look to for intercession, and as an example.
>>79914990
Actually it says they were never of them, and were antichrists. It never implies they were orthodox Christians.
>>79900298
Jesus was a long haired hippie faggot idealist who didn't comprehend how the world works.
>>79915259
I have made one thread under a trip ever, and it was to try to continue a conversation in a thread that had hit bump limit.
I don't know in what world appealing to tradition ought to make me believe something.
>>79915395
Looks like the Marxist have taught you well
>>79915312
Arminians don't since the atonement is for all. Everyone has the capability to accept it and get in the magic credit card. In Calvinism if God wanted you
To burn, he just controls you such that it will and must happen
>>79915312
No, I'm saying that those who believe will be saved. Limited atonement means ultimately that God does not love everyone.
>>79915270
You don't answer what I say. You literally don't respond to it. Because you can't - it's simply true.
To reiterate -
You literally don't believe you have a will.
That's self-contradictory - your entire belief is inherently nonsense.
Something without a will can't believe something.
>>79900298
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+3%3A8-22&version=KJV
>>79915486
How can he even love when human beings are treated as puppets by this deity?
>>79915395
You mean like when he told us that there would always be those who were poor, or that we would suffer in our lives? Is that not true,and we live in a fairy tale I've been ignoring?
>>79915454
I don't know much about Marxism. I went to catholic school if that helps.
>>79915108
He's a non-denom who thinks he understands Catholicism. It's actually kind of funny watching him grasp at straws.
As for patron saints, they're just saints who represent a specific cause, as determined by their actions in life. You don't really have to be "drawn" to one or anything like that. If you have a problem, you should pray to God and, if you feel like it, ask a saint to pray for you as well. It's like asking a friend to pray for you, except that friend is in heaven.
>>79915366
So, I realize there are a lot of saints. Can you venerate multiple saints or do you just get one Patron Saint who you ask to intercede on your behalf?
>>79915552
Exactly.
>>79915516
I answered earlier in the thread remember?
It came down to you saying you base your belief on an assumption.
>>79915366
It says in the esv, if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, so those who are of Christ will persevere to the end
>>79915581
I don't say "I understand Catholicism", I take beef with apostolic succession and dogma as being absolutely logically absurd.
Which it as, and which has been demonstrated more times than I can count.
Anyone who's interested can glance at the archives.
>>79915555
That's a good point, I should retract idealist from that.
Pol i bought my first bible today (KJV) S/O to Jesus for showing me the light
>>79915602
You can venerate as many as you like. It isn't worship, so feeling a high level of respect for multiple people is hardly a bad thing.
>>79915683
You didn't address the accusation. In any of your posts. You can't quote where you did, since you didn't.
You can try - and fail - now. Go ahead.
>>79915744
Your lack of understanding does not make it absurd.
>>79915453
>I don't know in what world appealing to tradition ought to make me believe something.
Because their practices are the directly tied to the Old church that Christ and his apostles established as well as the bible.
It doesnt make a whole lot of sense to believe that Christs teachings were effectively lost until some German and American fellows came along.
>>79915602
You can venerate any saint you want to, but a patron saint would be one you focus on specifically, and venerate more, as a more personal intercessor. Think of it like this. The saints are our friends in heaven, but your patron saint is who you think is your best friend.
>>79915731
And the preceding verse mentions that they were Antichrists. Why would those holding different doctrines remain with them? They wouldn't, and so they left them. Had they been orthodox they would have stayed.
>>79915486
If someone goes to hell, their sins weren't forgiven, then they weren't atonemed for, and therefore atonement is limited either way. it has nothing to do with love or hate
