Analog
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You are currently reading a thread in /p/ - Photography
You are currently reading a thread in /p/ - Photography
In the past twelve years that I've pursued this hobby, I've watched EVF's progress from laggy, battery-sucking, low-resolution, nigh useless pieces of shit into the crisp and refined EVF's we have today.
In your opinion, will analog ever be completely killed by electronic? Not just in viewfinders, but in other aspects as well such as buttons vs touch screens, smarter meter/AF programming vs manual adjustmensts, or crisp high-ISO settings reducing the need for fast glass.
I'm asking this in the context of mainstream, for-profit, professional photography, since analog tech and older style gear will likely always be used in some capacity in certain niches.
>>2830570
Probably, yeah. The only professional situations I can think of where an EVF isn't objectively better than an OVF is for flash work/studio style stuff. Though that makes up a tremendous amount of "pro" work, so maybe I just contradicted myself.
>>2830572
OVF hasn't got any lag, nor does it take time to adjust to the camera settings, or to a change of light intensity/color hue.
EVF can hardly do fast action, along its focusing system.
>>2830612
Modern EVF hasn't got any perceivable lag either, and we're talking about the future, where it will only get faster. It doesn't "take time to adjust its settings" because it doesn't have any settings to adjust. A lack of features is not a feature.
EVF can do fast action just fine now (XPro2 EVF has an 85fps framerate, for instance), and will only continue to get better, very quickly. The same will be said for focusing systems.
The focusing system in the 1DxII can be traced back along a path ending in the 80s. We're looking at 30 years of advancements and technological progress.
Mirrorless style focusing systems are much much less mature at this point, and when that has reached 30 years of progress, it will be equally impressive.
In a thread talking about the state of technology right now, you're (sort of) right. When you're talking about "ever" you're way off.
People who enjoy using cameras and photography tend to love analog cameras of yesteryear, Fuji, and the ease-of-use that analog dials and such bring. I'm one of these people.
The "problem" is, we don't amount to any real market. We're just nerds.
The camera of the future is one that has touch screens and maybe one dial or knob that serves many purposes. It's just the reality of casualizing a hobby for everybody and making pros adjust their mannerisms and preferences for what is manufactured by companies.
>>2830653
You really think that's where were heading?
The next step is computational photography. Cameras will have tons of tiny lenses and sensors and super computers will take care of crunching the data and do the rest. Changing lenses will be a thing of the past. Focusing before shooting will be a thing of the past.
Then, for us, the professionals, there will be regular cameras with our loved clicky dials.
>>2830570
>refined EVF's we have today
What camera are you talking about? I have tried every camera with an EVF at the store and they are all
>laggy, battery-sucking... nigh useless pieces of shit
The only thing they have going for them is that they are high resolution and bright. They are amazing to preview your images but terrible in live view. Modern OVFs are also bright and with high contrast but they are designed for AF so they are not as accurate as the old OVFs designed for manual focusing.
>>2830666
>laggy, battery-sucking... nigh useless pieces of shit
Anyone who's using a modern EVF is fully aware of how bullshit this statement is.
When a movie is filmed and projected at 24fps and is deemed "smooth", a modern EVF working at three times that is going to also be smooth.
"battery sucking" doesn't really work as a complaint, because you can't really directly compare it, since mirrorless cameras don't have the same sized batteries as DSLRs, but even if they did, features that assist with photography frequently use battery. IS is a great feature, but guess what, it uses battery. For most people, this isn't an issue, but if you're one of the very very few who goes days at a time without access to electricity and can't carry spare batteries, then yeah, it won't work for you. Doesn't make it bad for everyone however.
>Usless
I won't even bother with that one.
To be completely honest APSC ovf reflex viewfinders are literally trash tier and should die out.
X100/xpro viewfinders are kinda pale compared to Leica ones too.
>>2830666
B-b-but my manual everything nostalgia. Shit was never good and it was a product of the time. With innovation and tech advances we get tons of features that help out the people who know at least a little about photography.
EVF is a time saver for getting the composition the way you want it without firing test shots dozens of times, adjusting settings, and reviewing images.
And don't get me started on the tards who find it appealing to shoot and wait for film to develop. Nothing against film but gimmicky garbage like the new digital Leica without an LCD (a bit fucking ISO dial on the back) is catering to the dumbest fuckers ever; 6k + for gimping equipment for the purity of photography.... Top KEK
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>>2830668
Except evf 85fps does not equal what the sensor is out putting to the evf.
There's still tons of lag.
>>2830677
Except that it's not about nostalgia at all.
It's about seeing and composing the picture with your eyes rather than the sensor.
>>2830677
>i'm a literal faggot, the post
I bet I beat you with my manual focus over your autofocus 98% of the time both in accuracy and speed.
Also, I wish more companies would release a camera without a rear lcd. it's literally retarded to have a big as lcd on the back of your camera. Are you so insecure about your photography you need to chimp?
I'd pay fuji twice the ammount for an xpro2 without a lcd.
There's significant lag from the proximity sensor when the EVF is brought up to eye level, very distracting for street.
>>2830690
>I bet I beat you with my manual focus over your autofocus 98% of the time both in accuracy and speed.
I guarantee you don't. Especially at f/1.2 and a subject 12 feet away.
>Also, I wish more companies would release a camera without a rear lcd. it's literally retarded to have a big as lcd on the back of your camera. Are you so insecure about your photography you need to chimp?
It's for more than chimping. It's for menu selection, image review with a client, deleting images to save space on a card for long shoots, live view when you can't have the camera to your eye, etc.
If you don't want to use it, you can turn it off, and there's no issue.
>>2830677
There's no reason to chimp every shot or any shot really. Many professional photographers have the lcd turned off at all times except when some annoying model bothers them to have a look when they really shouldn't. The most useful feature is the histogram anyway, not the image preview.
>>2830677
You'll never understand.
>>2830701
Ever notice how back in the film days, lots of photos in albums have people blinking, or talking, or weird things in the shot like fingers, or blown highlights, or the like?
It's because people couldn't check to see if the photo was good or not.
It's a tool. You're not obligated to use it. Those of us with our livelihoods on the line, or those of us that travel hours and hours, and employ the assistance of other people to make a shoot would like to be sure we're producing the photos we've been tasked with getting.
"just know it faggot" isn't useful, and refusing to check your work on the back of your camera is gambling with quite a bit, for many people, with no potential payoff.
>>2830696
You may want to purchase a body with an OVF too or consider switching your EVF on for 100% of the time if that switching time is that important to you.
>street
Ha, oh wait. Not important at all :^)
>>2830668
>24fps
>smooth
The "look" of film is characterized by it's laggyness. Anything faster looks like a soap opera.
>battery sucking
I'm not going to talk about mirrorless battery life because that is a short conversation. It's the worse.
>>2830677
I have nostalgia for point and shoot toy cameras not for manual everything. My pictures aren't any better when I use all the latest features and technologies.
Composition is the same whether you use an OVF or an EVF. If you mean previewing your image then an EVF just lets you preview in real time. You still have to fiddle with the settings just the same.
I shoot film and it's the same as shooting digital. Unless you only look at your images on your camera. Once you look at your pictures on a computer or a print I don't see a difference in either process. The results are different but the process is the same.
>>2830711
>The "look" of film is characterized by it's laggyness.
Um, what?
It's characterized by it's smoothness, due to very slight motion blur. I'm not sure you understand what the term "lag" means.
For the rest of us, it means delay, jitters, lack of smoothness.
>>2830705
>producing the photos we've been tasked with getting
How did people do this before digital? Why where all the most iconic and well known photos taken with film? Was it magic?
>>2830717
So slower framerates are smoother? Faster framerates have more lag? A motion picture at 24fps is smoother than your local news at 60fps?
>>2830718
>Was it magic?
Yes.
The magic of film :^)
>>2830723
Slower framerates provide footage that is more blurry, and faster framerates have sharper rendering. When I'm shooting, I don't really want my screen to look blurry. Do you?
>>2830718
They did it by overcoming an obstacle.
For every amazing film photo you remember as being great, there at 10,000 that were terrible, missed focus, had people blinking, etc.
What good is the hurdle doing you?
Be specific.
>>2830730
I want my viewfinder to look like the real world. I tried the latest EVFs and when you pan left to right it looks like you're playing a video game at slow frame rates. Choppy as fuck.
>>2830737
At .005s latency and 85fps, no, they don't. Objectively.
If you don't like the fact that you can add toning and exposure preview that's your taste, but at least state your tastes, rather than lying about what you see to people who know better.
>>2830705
If you shoot digital you don't need to check wether someone's eyes are closed or not, you just keep shooting. The same applies to professional level film shooting. LCD has nothing to do with it. The near endless shooting is an entirely different advantage of digital.
What I don't like about EVF's is how slow and choppy they are.
>>2830746
Replace "Maybe they blinked" with "Did I get THE shot where everything lined up the way I wanted it to? Blowing hair correctly, not blinking, good micro-expressions, the dress sitting perfectly, no birds fucking in the background, etc.
Seeing your shot lets you know if you don't have the shot. You can take 10 rolls of film to be sure you got it, but unless you notice the flaw in one of them, you can end up with 360 photos of a girl with bird shit in her hair and never know it.
There is no reason to bother explaining this. The advantages are obvious, and the applications are numerous. To give it up artificially is a preference, but there is literally no advantage.
fuji shills/isi please go
>>2830755
no :^)
>>2830740
Tell me which camera.
I don't care what people do. I never stated that I had previewing wasn't to my taste. To the contrary I said evfs are "amazing" for that. People don't have to know anything. Just do what I do. Look into the evf and pan the camera from left to right. It doesn't look like the real world. You can't even see anything until you stop panning.
Tell me which cameras you want me to check out. I have tried fuji, olympus, sony, panasonic. Different models. They look really nice and big when you are looking at an image and they are usable but they don't look like as smooth as an OVF.
If I took someone's word for it I would think EVFs are lag-free. I didn't. Nobody should take my word for it either. Try it yourself.
>>2830763
protip: EVF's, LCD's and liveview WILL lag in low light regardless of refresh rate if not enough light is hitting the sensor.
switch your camera to high performance, take off that old manual clunker lens at f8 and embrace the power of t stops goy goy.
>>2830690
>I'd pay fuji twice the ammount for an xpro2 without a lcd.
Yeah but cameras like the XP2 have a lot of settings which matter a lot, and changing this stuff through the VF sucks. I rarely use the screen on my x100s, but I do use it when adjusting settings because using the nav buttons while menu surfing in the EVF is a pain in the ass.
I would settle for a smaller old style LCD like the ones calculators have just for menu adjustment though.
Fuji will never do a screenless camera because it makes JPG processing less relevant, and Fuji JPGs are one of their main marketing sells.
>>2830752
I disagree and here's why:
1. Everything you mentioned can be seen in the viewfinder.
2. There are times when you preview an image and later find something that you didn't notice before.
>>2830767
I tried an f1.8 lens wide open in a well lit camera shop. Does that make an EVF lag?
>>2830778
zoom in to focus point and pan, witness that glorious rolling refresh jello effect
>>2830771
>Everything you mentioned can be seen in the viewfinder.
You can't see blinking.
>>2830792
Of course you can. Have you ever used an optical viewfinder?
>>2830803
Only if you're shooting with a rangefinder. If somebody blinks the exact moment you take the shot using a SLR you won't see it.
>>2830813
Even with an SLR you know when people blink. If you are that paranoid about it then use a rangefinder. In my experience photographing you know when they blink. If they are adults they will even tell you. When photographing kids you can just wait for them to blink then take the photo. With kids you just have to take a bunch of photos anyway because they are so erratic. Looking at my family photos this is a 1 in a 100 chance and you know each one so you just take a second picture. Never had a picture ruined by blinking that I didn't know they blinked.
My niece closes her eyes after the flash. It was cute so I wanted to take a picture of her reaction. The image is captured so fast that I had to preflash, then wait for her to react then take the picture. Flash was too fast to take a regular flash picture with her reaction.
>>2830836
But this has nothing to do with ovf vs. evf.
>>2830839
People who think EVFs are better than OVFs think that you don't know whether people blinked with OVFs. I'm just disagreeing with that.
>>2830842
Agreed. The only advantage of evf is exposure preview.
>>2830842
No, that was a statement about the benefits of being able to review exposures on the camera, in reference to someone wanting to remove the LCD.
>tfw split-image screen on full-frame digital master race
EVF is for noobs who can't into camera.
>>2830954
You forgot your trip, and your watermark.
>>2830955
my bad
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>nikon d5
>pro
>touch screen
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