I'm curious about what it is you gain in your artistry (if not artistry and/or taste itself, in case you didn't have it from the beginning) by attending a (prestigious) photography school. What do they teach you that you can't teach yourself? Is it the atmosphere and the environment that develops your creativity and artistry? Is it the fact that you're granted a lot of resources to do whatever you want, because you're a photography student on paper? I really want to know, since you can read about composition yourself, you can get mileage yourself, but there always seems that there is this little piece of something that is unattainable as "self--taught".
I am limited by time, space and money. Sometimes it's extremely frustrating because I try my best to develop myself outside of these constrictions, regardless of the fact that I'll not be able to learn or do some things for a good while yet.
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Image-Specific Properties: Horizontal Resolution 72 dpi Vertical Resolution 72 dpi Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 525 Image Height 422 Scene Capture Type Standard
>>2757148
You get to learn directly from talented professionals. If you don't have 'it' this doesn't mean shit, you'll still be a crap photographer. If you do, it'll just progress you farther and wider.
Most famous art photographers are self taught or worked in the industry (assistant, second etc). Photography schools are a new thing, relatively speaking.
If you're a talented artist, you don't need school to make you good, but it can help you on your way to being great.
>>2757148
sometimes seeing some faggot one up yourself in a week term project is very good for forcing you into creativity and into finally get better. good motivation. competition does nice things to people.
i havent ever attended photo school, but ive been selected to participate in workshops with artists and art curators and its a comforting thing to beat up artists in their own field with your self taught abilities.
>>2757149
>>2757153
Thank you, solid replies. I sometimes pretend I have a deadline and need to be better than this or this person I've discovered. I can totally see why it works wonders. I'm alone with photographing among people I know and in my town (I live in Sweden). In october I entered a small local competition but got nothing, some 14-year-old took a generic picture of a labrador and won a set of studio equipment worth ~500$. Photography for me has always been a very lonely and immersive thing and I feel it has to change at some point if I want to develop.
>>2757158
deadlines are really a thing. creative constraints too. also take a fuckload of pictures, see the patterns and reinforce them. then youll develop a style/theme, all authors need themes. use social media to get a third opinion on your shit. im a very busy guy that overworks, so i never say oh lets go to take pictures for these 2 hours. i literally only take pictures when going walking from point A to B; everytime im out i have a camera in my hands, thats my way to handle it.
>>2757161
Yeah, this is what I do too. I'd love to bring the camera to everything I do (I attend medschool) but there are ethical restrictions that ironically can be magically unlocked only if you are a photography student. People here generally frown upon people taking photos in public, it's rare and somehow manages to invoke 200% suspicion on theft, sexual assault etc etc. I sweat every time I pick out my camera, more or less. And I'm female. i imagine it's a lot more prejudice and fear for males.
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Image-Specific Properties: Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 2048 Image Height 1365
A fine art photography course just makes you focus on the important stuff.
Only with great passion and determination you can begin to know what to filter for your learning process.
The other advantage with photo schools is the community itself, be it teachers or fellow students. It's very valuable as you may guess, and anyone else self-taught like I am, that sharing a darkroom and discussing prints and photography as final results with other classmates and teachers, to be very rich.
I'd say the great majority of fine art photography students end up in a much higher level and a self taught enthusiast for the same amount of time, which is usually 3 years for a bachelor.
With that said, if you manage to get to that level and find your own style to keep growing, you will be much superior to them, as a self taught photographer, because your drive and passion had to be much higher, to reach the same level without those important resources.
Sorry for the long text.
>>2757182
PS: I'm self-taught because I'm already enrolled in another field and i can say, after 1 year of continuous study, trial and error, and most importantly, passion and curiosity, I've finally begun to understand what's more important to me in photography.
So in my humble opinion, you can get there the same way, it all pretty much boils down what kind of photographer you want to be. Some need a CV more than others. If you're really good, you don't.
>>2757148
>What do they teach you that you can't teach yourself?
Nothing.
My best m8 is a pro wildlife photographer/cameraman for some pretty big budget stuff. He started with photography as a hobby, got good with practice and reading books.
>>2757182
>>2757185
Thanks, the last part gives me a drive. I'm more into (loose) art photography than (very technical) wildlife, but I try not to decide beforehand and just learn and take better pictures as I go. I don't know what that would mean as far as recognition, CV and all that stuff goes. I haven't got a clue how you might go from self--taught to e.g. an exhibition. It seems very hard and surreal for me, I'm very bad at selling myself. I feel lime this is 98% of the reason why people in my country go to art schools. Not to get better, because the cultural situation in Sweden is pretty bad according to me, but to get advantages printed on paper and a headstart in the art scene. I'd never forgive myself for doing such a thing.
>>2757199
Would you say it's easier for commercial photography e.g. sports and wildlife, to be self--taught? I'm asking because I'm not into it, but still curious, since my guess is being a self--taught photojournalist or art photographer is a steeper uphill. How did your friend do it? When did the shift come from amateur to pro?
>>2757148
Art school will teach you 1000 ways to not fuck things up. You get instruction about how to not fuck up, and you get to watch your shittier peers fuck up. In many ways art school should allow/train the little creative voice that you have to dictate the images you create. Your ideas and vision will be more visible to viewers by not distracting people with with the uncountable possible fuck ups.
Critique is really helpful. You also get to fired up to do better when you're not the best in the class.
If you can find a critique group (not /p/) in your town it can be really helpful.
>>2757216
>I'm more into (loose) art photography than (very technical) wildlife
thats a very flawed way to see these fields. a recipe for failure.
lots of apparently "loose" art photo is most of times autistically crafted to achieve a certain look and feel. art photo can get retardedly technical. some peple have spent years testing prints to get a book out because colors "arent quite it yet".
>>2757216
Im the anon you double quoted. You shouldn't worry about exhibitions and stuff like that, if you find your niche and become good, you work will stand out, thanks to the internet.
focus on what gives you pleasure and seek knowledge. After a while you will know what to look for, which masters to study, which themes to explore and also contemporary photographers.
>>2757221
Solid.
There's two "clubs" I can turn to. One of them is an FB-group with the powelvl of pic related. The other one is an elitistic society for cityscape photographers. The same powerlevel, but analog and everyone are 65+ hobby seniors. They have their own darkroom tho, too bad they have trust issues and do their best to keep young people out.
I'd live to find a local group, but chances are extremely slim. There was a girl that enjoyed photography but I didn't keep contact with her for some years, after making friends, and now I barely know her. She moved to the capital to enroll in (what seems to me) a shifty photography course in a public college.
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Image-Specific Properties: Comment Screenshot Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 2048 Image Height 1353
>>2757224
I might have chosen a strange way to express it, but I meant it in the sense of gear, money, art theories. I did not mean in the sense that art photography is a lucky accident whereas wildlife photography is planned. For me it's mostly about the balance between freedom, gear and approach as well as the community around the particular discipline. In art, even though it reaches autistic levels, you have more subject freedom. This is what I feel at least.
I work Security at a pretty good art school
(The irony bites into me everyday)
From their photography department the only boons I can find are the rentable studio space, easy equipment access and the ability to rent out camera's for personal use that the students couldn't possibly afford.
However, the instructors appear to be former students with little web presence which is dodgy in itself, and while the head technician has made a little name for himself one good guy seems a little off.
On school Holidays when the place is %100 locked down I work on some of my pictures on the nice color accurate monitors which is cool.
>>2757267
Sounds comfy. Do you have some kind of page where you dump your stuff? I'd be interested in seeing that.
>>2757148
>What do they teach you that you can't teach yourself?
Absolutely nothing.
The only thing you really get is the 'experience' of being in a school. Quite often people also get the disappointment of seeing other people with the exact same skills who didn't invest that kind of time and money for the same return on investment they got with a school.
Pretty much the same deal with any 'art' school, and a lot of the soft/social sciences in the rest of academia.
Most people on 4chan will give you edgy replies about university being whack.
Being in a photography course in university I will guarantee you that you will be focusing in multiple aspects of photography at each part of your stay. I've studied art most of my life so when I applied I found a lot of people with really low capability and knowledge of the topic. Most people here would reach that exact level of production if shown photography as an artistic medium. There are a lot of discussions and questions to be asked and answered in art, and in photography, a medium so recent and still somewhat finding its place, its pretty mandatory to be sharing your experience and ideas with the teachers themselves and with other students.
>>2757216
if you want to expose your work, from the level of maturity in your post i can tell you should most likely go to a university if you have the opportunity. otherwise chances are very low you'll ever make it out of your basement with your hobbyist photography
>>2757375
Eh, sorry mate
I'm snapshit tier at best so you're not really missing much
>>2757243
A photo critique group would be best, but a group of artists that talk about their work would be ok too. Composition translates across art.
Taking an art history course or two can be really helpful.
Save your money.
I just dropped out of the photo program at my school because the instructors, while excellent photographers in their own right, force you into their box, artistically speaking. If you don't play along, they fuck with your grade.
You will end up being assigned bullshit that focuses on technical understanding instead of creative inspiration.
Join a local photography group in your nearest big city, who will usually host a friendly photo competition each meeting. That will give you a peer group to critique with, make contacts in the industry, and learn about events in your area.
Even if they have a monthly membership fee, it's cheaper than art school tuition, and you will advance just as much.
>>2757166
Read up a little on your local laws, know what's legal and illegal for you as a photographer--that can help ease some of your tension in taking pictures in public. Obviously use common sense if someone starts targeting you (they don't want their picture taken, etc.), but there's typically very little a random person can do besides an outright illegal act themselves (violence, for example).
Also, get a cheap set of business cards. If someone gets curious and asks what you're doing, introduce yourself and hand them a card. Even if you're not a "professional" per se, a simple card can carry the connotation of being one and put their suspicions to rest since it's fairly obvious you're not doing anything nefarious.
Don't know if those tips will help, but I hope it does.
An art school does not teach you art. I think it's actually better to learn it on your own, so you don't get influenced by trends and rules. That is harder though, you need to be really motivated to keep pushing yourself.
If your ambition isn't to be a "hardcore" artist, just to do art and get payed for it, schools are awesome. You get a lot of information, but more importantly you learn how to have a work-ethic and the absolute most important thing for making money in the art world: networking.
I'm not an art major, but have taken photography classes. I've never felt forced into a box, or forced to follow rules. I've seen more of that shit here than anywhere else.
On a side note, my gf is taking a photo class, and the teacher said to her "fuck the rule of thirds"
