The only reason I don't switch from DSLR to mirrorless is because of battery life. If they could improve battery life to at least 600-700 shots (without battery grip) I'd sell my nikon gear in a heart beat.
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Buy another battery. Two batteries and a mirrorless is still smaller than any DSLR.
Problem solved, /thread, should've posted in the gear thread anyway, fag.
>>2707957
buy another battery. put in pocket.
So they still put pissweak batteries in their shit-tier cameras huh?
Lay off the chimping and live-view.
I use a grip, but even after shooting 1000+ frames in a day and having my camera awake and autofocusing for a large portion of that time I could easily do the same for the next two days and even then probably get home with 1/3 charge.
...pentaksu ftw
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a second battery is like $15
You probably wont use it
>>2707962
this
>>2707958
How are you faggots still saying these things are smaller than dslrs? 810 Battery is like 1200 shots thats 4 batteries for every 1 d810 kek. Usually you have another so you'd be carrying 8 batteries around add the fact most sony users add adapters and shit tier lenses its useless. also heard of weather sealing? lol. Oh and ergonomics. fuck this paragraph formatting,,.,.,
just create a dslr with an evf
>just swap the battery, anon!
>in the middle of important shoot
>battery dies
>miss important shots
>get sued
Makes sense.
>>2708028
>just create a dslr with an evf
it's called live view, nigger. they already have that.
>>2708029
Mirrorless users are enthusiasts who never actually worked for any production.
Sony users are gearfags who never actually use their camera, just measuring their e-penis on dubious internet forums. Makes sense really, just mentioning battery life doesn't mean anything to them.
>>2708033
I'm a "professional," and I've very strongly considered a mirrorless.
Probably get an A7RII for video soon.
>>2708031
what happens when its sunny then you retard. im not saying i want one but the dslrs body has been perfected over many many years, there is no need for it to be smaller. If it matters so much then remove the ovf and put in a evf
>>2708028
You don't hold all the batteries in your hand while you're shooting with it. for a small plane trip or a backpacking trip, the overall weight matters, but for what 99.97% of people use their cameras for, an extra battery on the table, or in a bag, or in a pocket just doesn't matter.
If you're shooting 1000 photos in a day, you're probably working in a single area for most of the time, and can easily set your camera bag down somewhere. The batteries to my X-T1 are basically like a slightly fat book of matches. They aren't obnoxious to have multiples of.
>>2708031
>implying shooting with the camera away from your face is ever a good idea.
>>2708034
>words words words
>Hey, look at me I am professional I am telling you on the internet, you must believe me!
Your troll-fu is weak, I can see through your ruse
>>2708031
And yet all mirrorless users I know are asking me to buy an OVF for them.
Also these people are between 20-27yrs. I seriously doubt they can function on their own if they can't even shop from ebay.
>>2708036
the only people who actually want an evf over an ovf are the rabble fags that now constitute sony's userbase. they never could figure out all what all those confusing numbers meant and can't previsualize worth a shit, so they need a magic viewfinder that will tell them what their photo will look like before they take it.
the two things it's ACTUALLY useful for (fine manual focus, making sure your verticals are truly vertical) are accomplished by live view, which all dslr's have had for like eight years already.
>>2708046
I used quotations to avoid this kind of dumb commentary.
Stay classy, anon.
>>2708033
>are enthusiasts who never actually worked for any production.
I know quite a few video prod companies that have switched over to the ar7ii. The fact that it's the ony back-illuminated FF sensor and has full pixel readout without pixel binning is huge for them.
>Sony users are gearfags who never actually use their camera
I work in a camera shop. +90% of the people who buy a7's do so because they have a decent chunk of legacy glass. Gearfagging is way stronger with Canikon users. Even size alone is an peen thing for them, I've seen tons of customers get Canikon solely because it's bigger (and thus looks more professional), it's like truck owners overcompensating.
I hate to say it (and I was the biggest Nikon fanboy ever, owned multiple D2's, D3's, D700's D800's, etc) but classic DSLR's are just becoming outdated technology at this point. Of course they're better for some things (the pro D3/D4 bodies are incredible and necessary for many), but they really are like the 1980s cell phones of the camera world now.
>>2708053
>I work in a camera shop.
Opinion disregarded.
>>2708053
>people who don't like what I like/share my needs are compensating
Fuck off and die.
>>2708034
They have external battery packs that will last you quite a bit.
Why not get a gh4 for video?
>>2708054
Which means I probably interact with more people who take photos, and used cameras from every brand more than just about anyone else on here.
>>2708055
>>people who don't like what I like/share my needs are compensating
There's literally a thread on this board about using battery grips solely for vanity. The compensation comment was strictly about people buying for "big size" reasons, sorry I didn't make that clear enough. Like trucks are 100% useful, and necessary for many, but there's always people who buy the biggest truck just for vanity. No one buys mirrorless to show off (outside of Leica), they buy DSLR's.
I already said that many DSLR's offer advantages over mirrorless. I said that pro-bodies are irreplacable and necessary for many. DSLR's are 100% fine, I still have a couple of mine. Even other "size" arguments like ergonomics are a totally valid reason to own a DSLR over mirrorless. The a7's been really the only mirrorless camera that I'd say does compete with DSLRs.
>>2708057
>Which means I probably interact with more people who take photos, and used cameras from every brand more than just about anyone else on here.
1) lol no.
2) It also means that you literally get paid to shill Sony, so thanks but no thanks.
>have a6000
>original sony battery has 1020mAh
>third party battery from the local camera store has 900mAh
>order via eBay
>ching chong battery from China has over 1500mAh and lasts for days
Sony can't make batteries for shit.
>>2708058
>2) It also means that you literally get paid to shill Sony, so thanks but no thanks.
I actually make the most selling Nikon, Sony pays shit in spiffs (tho they have some of the best employee purchasing). I don't even own a single Sony camera atm (all Nikon + Leica). That said, there's a reason why the ar7II is getting so much critical acclaim.
ALL cameras from ALL systems have pros/cons. None are really just "better" than another one, they're only going to be better (or worse) for certain users because we all have different needs. Arguing that one camera is just "overall" better is retarded. Denying that the a7's have been a game-changer in the industry is equally retarded.
>>2708067
None of your words are true. Enjoy spending your NEET life in your moms basement trying to convince others and yourself that you have a life.
You are disgusting.
>>2708071
Whatever makes ya feel better.
>>2708028
>just create a dslr with an evf
being this stupid.. having only an EVF would make the mirror obsolete. You know the mirror is flipped up when you're using liveview (aka EVF) on your DSLR?
>>2708075
Nice, I make that money in a week.
Having a real job, not a mindless shopmonkey makes things a lot easier.
Of course you would need a college degree at least but that would require determination and a will to expand your knowledge which you clearly lack.
Stop being a mindless drone and get yourself a decent degree in engineering or any other sciences. It totally worth it and you won't be needing to try to sell cheap consumer shit on internet forums.
>>2708071
>let me create a false reality for anon(or project my reality) to discredit his argument
Translated by FUCK OFF!
>>2708075
>Nice, I make that money in a week.
I mean, I'd sure hope you do, do you even know what a spiff is? This is from Sony, per item sold. Add in hourly & general comission. Add in the fact I can resell shit after buying at discount, really not that hard to hit 6 figures.
>Having a real job, not a mindless shopmonkey makes things a lot easier.
Yeah because getting to purchase any camera / lens I want at a big discount sucks. Getting to fuck around with any camera I want sucks so much. Getting to meet other people that share a common passion just sucks so much. Getting to hangout with top personalities in the camera world sucks so much. Having an entire lab to process and scan my own film at my convenience sucks so much.
>Stop being a mindless drone and get yourself a decent degree in engineering or any other sciences
I do have a degree, make more $ doing this, and it's way way more fun.
> It totally worth it and you won't be needing to try to sell cheap consumer shit on internet forums.
Have you read what I've written in this thread? Not really trying to sell anything in particular. Just the whole D810 vs a7 arguing is retarded. They both have pros & cons, they both are better (or worse) for different people.
>>2708091
What kind of camera shop do you work in? I've been wondering if it's worth getting a job at a local one. I live in a city so there are lots of different kinds from mostly used/film to the standard prosumer shops. I can imagine the prosumer shops are where the money is but do you meet lots of local artists through that? thx
>>2708067
>game-changer
Protip: little is ever actually game changing. Seriously, it's not. It's just a bandwagon that'll see people who follow such shit jump off at the next great big thing. Most people will just chug along the way they've been doing things.
>>2708091
Arts is not a real degree. Go be a failure somewhere else.
>>2708067
underrated post
wow, there's a lot of pointless negativity in this thread. the camera store dude is pretty much speaking the truth, from his perspective, and it's pretty on-point....
>>2708091
When you literally say mirrorless makes dslrs obsolete (which you try to back peddle from thereby showing you have no clue what obsolete means)and call them "game changing", you clearly do not have an unbiased opinion...nor a fact based one either.
>>2708102
>the camera store dude is pretty much speaking the truth, from his perspective
>from his perspective
That is called statistics of one. It is completely irrelevant.
>>2708097
I mean SLR's where a game-changer. They offered a ton of stuff over more traditional cameras and pushed RF's into a niche category. DSLRs where a game changer, even basic APS-C ones were enough to basically kill the film market. For the longest time mirrorless has had lots of disadvantages compared to DSLRs, but those differences have gotten smaller and smaller. I HATE EVFs, but they have gotten significantly better. I'm not at all a Sony fanboy, I'd much rather see Nikon bring out something to compete with the a7 (I own a V1, but it's awful in comparison to pretty much every other mirrorless). There's going to be a point where DSLR's no longer have any kind of advantage over mirrorless (except for stuff like ergonomics requirements), and it's like at that point, why would you get a DSLR over mirrorless? There are still plenty of reasons to now, but they're used to be a lot more, and those reasons are getting fewer and fewer each year. That's all not even considering that mechanically, mirrorless offers several advantages that simply can't be found in DSLRs.
Rangefinders are totally outdated design, but I love using them (I have Nikon and Leica ones) because they offer something I can't get on any other camera system. I feel like, given time, DSLR's are going to be in the same place. They'll have things you can't get elsewhere, but those things are going to be ultimately unecessary for most people. I just see mirrorless as the next linear technological progression. It's finally at the point where it's gone from "neat" to "legitimate camera design", for me at least.
>>2708103
>but classic DSLR's are just becoming outdated technology at this point.
Outdated != obselete. There are lots of products with outdated design technology that are in no way obsolete. RF's are outdated, but certainly not obsolete.
What would be game-changing camera technology for you? What would be the camera equivalent of going from 90s cell phones to todays smartphone?
>>2708097
>>2708110
I think mirrorless cameras will be the future, because size and weight are really important, and they're less intimidating for street photography. For me, as an amateur photographer, who doesn't make money off of it, i hate using DSLR's in public, it makes me feel like a tryhard, like wearing studio headphones outside - you just look like a nerd.
And these a7 cameras are sexy af, you just want to pick them up and go shooting.
That being said, I think there's couple more years for them to mature, i don't want to swap batteries all the time, the lens are far too expensive imo and there's virtually no used lens market.
Tbqh i'm more sick of the same fat and ugly slr design, if they'd make them like pic related i wouldn't mind(even doe sl is mirrorless too)
I just picked up the A7SII and the battery life seems fine. I'm mostly shooting video with it though. The only disadvantage I can think of right now is the small lens selection for E-mount full-frame compatibility. As far as I know there's only Sony/Zeiss glass that's compatible. So yeah maybe wait a half year or something.
lol /p/
as soon as someone even tries to put out evidence of being more knowledgeable about cameras, /p/ just goes on all fours and shoots him down in any way they can. Fucking pathetic ass people.
>>2708235
There was no expert evidence presented, just the backwards opinion of one retail employee.
>>2708121
I'm confused are we talking about a tool for taking pictures or a fashion accessory? Because with the former, the only sense of "outdated" that matters is obsolescence. With the latter, you will always have a group of considers l consumers who chase trends.
As for the other bit, do you not realize that we are where we are because of a few dozen technological advances that appeared all over? There's been no one game changing digital camera because it's all been incremental. If you forced me to point to one thing that's most influenced modern photography, I'd say the original iPhone even though it didn't have a camera because that was what finally made smart phones a thing for everyone.
>>2708217
See this guy? He's taking about it like it's a fashion accessory. Oh, guy, first part of being a tryhard is caring how much you look like one.
>>2708217
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>>2708245
Not everyone shares the same values for tools as you do, I want to appreciate the care manufacturer has put in in a camera I've spend almost $2k on, not just the same recycled design. And I was making more of a point that these mirrorless cameras look less intimidating for the subject, which is important if you do street photography.
>>2708293
>I want to appreciate the care manufacturer has put in in a camera I've spend almost $2k on, not just the same recycled design
Faggot.
>mirrorless cameras look less intimidating for the subject, which is important if you do street photography.
Vapid bullshit that isn't reflected in real world use, though I imagine you'll never actually find that out.
>>2708293
Oh and they share what you value?
See this is why people hate you mirrorless shills. You talk or of both sides of your mouth. You proudly declare size and weight are very important (not meaning that different people want different things, but that the mirrorless form factor is what all will prefer), then try to minimize any one else's preferences.
>recycled design
Yup, fashion accessory
>less intimidating for subject
Fool. The motion of taking the picture is what's intimidating. It doesn't matter what light box you're pulling up to your head. I've shot street with most every form factor except for lf. The reaction you get is based off of how you act and the person you're shootings demeanor, nothing more or less.
>>2708295
Nice counter-arguments, full of substance.
>>2708306
Well, you're trying to minimize my preferences, because according to you, design that's anything other than utilitarian is fashion accessory.
>You proudly declare size and weight are very important (not meaning that different people want different things, but that the mirrorless form factor is what all will prefer), then try to minimize any one else's preferences.
Wait, so because I think mirrorless will be the future, I'm saying literary every person will prefer them over DSLR?
>The motion of taking the picture is what's intimidating. It doesn't matter what light box you're pulling up to your head.
I just disagree, but since there's no scientific data for either pov, only anecdotes, i'll leave it at that.
>>2708306
No, I'm saying if you treat your tool like a tool, how it looks doesn't matter. Look at top level video cameras. They're boxes. If you use a camera as a fashion accessory, then yes aesthetics matter, and you're free to do so, just stop pretending you're not. Photography isn't your focus and that's fine, but again, stop pretending that it is.
And before you try to claim none of that is true, I again point out that you're getting hung up on the way the tool looks and how you look using the tool. That's not, by a long stretch, in the same realm as being concerned with how you use the tool and how well it works. I mean, I bet HCB was feeling stylish AF with that leica...
>>2708076
>being this retarded
I said DSLR so you knew the basic concept of the size/ergonomics/function of the camera. Take out the mirror when you put the EVF in, why the fuck would you have a random mirror assembly if you aren't going to use it? Guess I should've said 5D Mirrorless to clarify for special people
>>2708076
literally a Sony SLT camera
>>2708080
Jesus Christ you're a sad piece of shit. Did your gf leave you today? Take a chill pill, anon.
>>2708028
oh my god all these fucking idiots
literally Sony a99 DSLR with evf
>>2708059
>>ching chong battery from China has over 1500mAh and lasts for days
Pssst. Would you like to know the secret trick to this awesome Chinese battery technology?
Okay I'll tel you.
The have these machines in China that prints labels, so when they want their batteries to sell, they configure their machines to write 1500mAh instead of 1020mAh.
This chinese technology can defy physics, they can pack so much energy into these small packages because...wait for it...... because you are wishing for it.
This works because gullible retards such as yourself have wishful thoughts of magical chinese technology that can create everlasting batteries which no one else in the world ever thought of before. But you're just that -> a retard who feels good about his wishful thinking. That's why their economy is booming.
>>2708036
>the dslrs body has been perfected over many many years
haha what are you , fucking 15?
>>2708034
If you're going to use it mainly for video, the A7SII would be better, it's designed with 4K video recording as its main function. The A7RII's huge megapixel count is more for still photogs.
>>2708476
I would like to also use it for more elaborate set up shots for dat dynamic range though.
>>2708059
open the battery up and see the cells.
>>2708526
or make a test.
shoot video continuously and see which have longer life.
yes, the chinese cheapies do often overrate the mAh rating.
No, they don't always.
Yes they are often as good or better. If anyhting my experience has been that the ones with a higher Ah rating tend to havbe a higher failure rate and loss of ability to retain a charge after a year or two. But in the short term they are just as good.
Some of the chinese cheapies specify that they use a particular high quality japanese cell in their china assembled batteries. Those are probably the ideal ones to get.
I found recently in Australia that betterbatt imports a specific type of chinese batteries becasue they are up to local quality standards. They are the same ones I got from china a few years back. I'm ok with buying them locally now becasue they arrive quicker and it's much easier to get any warranty replacements. Incidentally: they are labeleld with a more 'true' mAh rating (more pessimistic). Which is still higher than the official name brand ones. Though in reality they are probably almost identical in terms of output and lifespan. Just much cheaper. Yet somewhat more expensive that the identical chinese ebay ones that may be really old.
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>>2708422
The Chinese batteries often really do have a greater capacity than the OEM ones. The way I understand it, they make the cells larger by using thinner shielding or something like that which makes them have a greater capacity but a much faster discharge rate. So when they're fully charged they hold more charge than the OEM battery, but they quickly lose a large amount of that if you just leave them sitting around.
>>2708536
Good goyim. Keep believing in that chinese super technology.
>>2708539
Good goyim. Keep buying OEM batteries from authorized dealers.
>>2708539
good goy.
buy those original canon batteries.
>>2708542
>>2708541
Now what you say is also true, the originals are overpriced. But your truth doesn't counter mine.
It just reveals how ignorant you are when you're not even aware that copy batteries sometimes cite twice the capacity of originals. Think about it for a moment, This is the type of scam you're silently buying into when you pretend there is some sort of validation to them.
>>2708544
>buy higher rated battery
>test to see if it really is higher capacity
>???
>buy again or name and shame
>>2708546
>is a moron who actually believes in super chinese shielding technology that upgrades 1000mAh batteries to 1500mAh batteries
How about a simple no.
>>2708547
you mean no shielding technology?
no one here said super chinese technology besides you.
it's either the chinks get a bigger cell or they lied.
my chink knockoff of canon lp-e6 is rated the same 875mah, but it holds the charge if you keep it in storage.
i got 2 for half the price of 1 canon oem.
so, what's the problem?
oh, you.
>>2708552
>it doesn't hold the charge.
>>2708552
You know damn well what I objected to. I was talking to the Anon who claimed his 1500mah battery was the real deal. It was never about your 875mah battery.
>>2707957
>because of battery life
My Epson R-D1 has incredible battery life.
Haha.
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>>2709883
>lens made in canada
is that special?
>>2708335
No, you are the spastic. The name slr implies it has an optical viewfinder that looks through the lens.
If you get an A7, use a manual lens.
Autofocus eats a lot of battery.
I take a few hundred pics with that.
Also, if you're doing long exposures, remove jpeg saving as it uses much processing.
Other batteries are cheap, get some. And a charger, as the one in the camera is shit.
I've taken my A7 on full day hikes and didn't even need to change to my backup body. Using manual focus lenses and full screen brightness.
>>2709961
Meant backup battery***
I have 4 batteries for my A7, bought 2 for £6.99 ish and 1 + a second charger for £7.99, plus the one that came with the camera ofc. I carry them around in my backpack when I go out shooting along with numerous other things.
The reason I bought these is because I'm not a spaz like you OP.
NIGGERLESS CAMERA USERS BEING BTFO IN THIS THREAD.
30 photo battery life, what a fucking joke.
>>2707957
I've had 772 out of a single battery, your fears are unfounded.
>>2707957
E-M1 fag here.
I took 850~ shots on a single battery before I got the red flashing battery indicator once.
I can get 700-750 shots out of my x-a1's battery. pretty dank
>>2708267
ah man, I wanted to believe
>>2708076
Why can't we go back to modular pro 35mm bodies like the Nikon F5 and Canon F1? That way you can choose what kind of VF you want in the body.
>>2713061
Cost, most likely.
>>2708217
I still stand by the statement that Leica should have just made a new R-series camera with AF lenses. And that the whole "fat and ugly" design is because most of the parts that make it "pro" are integrated in to the body, rather than being completely separate, to the point the there's no such thing as a FF digital camera with interchangeable viewfinders, and swapping focusing screens is a pain in the ass because of that.
Mirrorless cameras should try to expand on that whole modular concept, like the Nikon v3, which lets you add on to the body to add functionality. The only thing missing would be an interchangeable sensor back. If there was a camera with those features, you could be dealing with the digital equivalent of a Rolleiflex SL2000f
>>2713063
I think it has less to do with cost and more to do with people being paranoid about dust and the horror of having to actually CLEAN your camera's sensor on your own. The last purely modular, weather sealed body was the Nikon F3 Press
>these fags promoting non-SLR
it's like I'm surrounded by stupid 15 year olds
oh wait.
>>2707957
i exchanged my A6000 for a 1Ds MK 2 feels good man. That tiny body and fucked up menu system and dat non existing battery life, dem overpriced lenses, dat non existing second hand market for affordable lenses.
