>get phone from Arabic serial killers
>killers destroyed all other electronics because of good opsec
>leave cheap 5c
>because it has nothing on it
>law enforcement/fbi change password for some fucking reason
>rather than doing an iCloud backup you can capture or social engineer password using now dead suspects appleid
>flip the fuck out because they are incompetent as usual
>we could make the nsa give us the password but then America would wonder where the evidence came from, thus validating that govt has backdoors/good hacking ability
>fbi tries to make apple give security stripped version
>Apple says no lol
>oh shit they called our bluff
>uh-uh give us the source code or else!

>“If it was technologically possible to make an impenetrable device where there’s no door at all, then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we disrupt a terrorist plot? How do we even do a simple thing like tax enforcement?” Obama posed.
Fucking tyrants...using this as an excuse to fuck up our privacy even more. And all because THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR GOD DAMN JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE.


While I respect Tim Cook for standing up to FedGov on this, I wish he were more like Trump. He needs to get on TV and state that if the FBI doesn't back down Apple will move the entire company, all operations, off shore and never return.

I'm actually more scared of America's government than Isis.

Seriously, if Apple loses this then no tech company will stick around and every modern device made in the US should be considered potentially hardware back doored as the precedent would allow the government to then push out signed firmware updates for any of the various hardware in your devices such as the Intel Management Engine on post 2008 Intel processor, AMD's Platform Security Processor on post 2013 processors, ARM's Trustzone on any Cortex A series SOC (anything with better specs than a second gen iPhone and any single board computer still made or made recently that isn't a first gen Raspberry Pi), the firmware for the baseband processor in any phone ever, etc., and no software coming from the US would ever be able to be trusted.

Friendly reminder that the phone was a work phone and likely has no relevant information about the killers or other terrorists on it, but the Feds don't care because they want the precedent of getting a backdoor into iOS via the All Writs Act so they can push other tech companies into doing the same thing (and weaken encryption everywhere as a result).

I'm not a fan of Apple - Steve Jobs was a dickhead and hardcore Apple fans remind me of a fucking cult - but I side with them on this because the FBI and DOJ are intentionally trying to deep-dick Apple into making iPhones less secure. Fuck that noise.

The thing is that the FBI knows that there is nothing on there. There is almost a 100% chance they have gotten into the phone already. But it was done using the NSA. Now if the DoJ comes out tomorrow and says "it's alright guys we got what we wanted let's go on to something", then people will wonder what the chain of custody path was. Which would undoubtedly reinforce the notion in the public that the NSA spying has continued or even been expanded since Snowden. Which would cause a fuckton of distrust in the govt on top of this really chaotic presidential race.

Woah, hold up, the source code is not the big deal here. What's absolutely terrifying is that they want to seize Apple's private keys. Holy shit.

>>29113
I hope this ends in the best way possible:

>apple turns a foss company based in switzerland
>general mistrust from companies confirms nsa/cia massive botnet has grown
>companies start going outside the us to protect their interests
>the privacy matters becomes a meme and to make profit companies start adopting this good practice
>usa/rusia/china botnets have their powerlevels crippled
>we have a better internet
>we have a better world

>>29113
>What's absolutely terrifying is that they want to seize Apple's private keys. Holy shit.
This.

Combine it with the tendency of the NSA to back new encryption algorithms that have built-in backdoors (see: Elliptic curve cryptography) and it's pretty clear what's going on here. And of course the US gov't has the arrogance to think it can secure those keys when it can't even secure its own personnel files.

>>29083
>implying any tech company manufactures in America.

Fuck Apple fanboys. This isn't about the privacy of the American public or any shit like that. This is about the privacy of iPhone users. This is so fucking stupid.

>>29183
>This isn't about the privacy of the American public or any shit like that. This is about the privacy of iPhone users. This is so fucking stupid.
There have been a ton of crypto, security researchers and techies outside of apple that have gone on record saying the opposite, e.g. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/02/decrypting_an_i.html Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

>>29183
>I don't know what legal precedent is

Why are you people so surprised this is what happens when you put personal information on a for lack of a better set of words (OPEN CLOUD SYSTEM).

>>29183

This is about a precedent.

The Feds want to use the All Writs Act to force Apple into giving said Feds a backdoor into iOS. Once the Feds have that precedent, they can use the AWA to force other tech companies into backdooring their software for the benefit of law enforcement (read: so the Feds can spy on Americans).

This isn't about the information on that phone. This is about the Feds looking to undermine encryption and make their jobs a shitload easier in the process.

100% agree with Apple's stance here. I don't even care that some people are for some reason attacking Apple because they're claiming Apple's only doing it for marketing.

I mean no shit they're doing it for some marketing, they're still trying to sell people iPhones. But the fact is they're on the side that every consumer and individual should agree on.

>>29245

Even a money-hungry corporation gets it right once in a while.

>>29245
>I mean no shit they're doing it for some marketing
No shit indeed.

Put aside the legal ramifications, just look at it from a business perspective. If Apple complies then their entire iphone business will collapse at the minimum, nobody will trust an Apple product's security ever. Furthermore for the time being they will still have a huge customer database, so Apple's servers will be slammed 24/7 by other entities (gov'ts in partiuclar, see Russia & China) looking to retrieve whatever security backdoor the FBI wants Apple to design.

The FBI is for all intents and purposes asking Apple to burn their own company to the ground. This request is absolutely retarded on every level, there is no way Apple will comply. They can't afford to, picking up shop and moving everything overseas would be less costly to Apple.

>>29248
>>29251
It's a really fascinating and also potentially scary story. I don't think there's ever been anything quite like this happening right?

It's just so disappointing to see the people in government being so determined with their idea. I would imagine that it's just a select few numbers of key people in the FBI, NSA, whatever who are pushing for this because of the huge precedent this will set knowing very well that Apple is right about their concerns about suspicions. Along the way other very ignorant people in government have been informed of what the government wants to do so they just agree and spout stupid rhetoric about how it's so simple to do and how Apple is just being 'un-American' and so on.

>>29252

>Along the way other very ignorant people in government have been informed of what the government wants to do so they just agree and spout stupid rhetoric about how it's so simple to do and how Apple is just being 'un-American' and so on.

There is hope, though.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160314/09144433899/senator-lindsey-graham-finally-talks-to-tech-experts-switches-side-fbi-v-apple-fight.shtml

>>29081
I'm assuming you mean ballsier like Trump, and not supporting fascist FBI bullshit like Trump? Or did Trump turn around on his opinion of this whole thing?

>>29252
The "Crypto-wars" of the 90s had the same general motive, and were arguably a worse threat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars.

>>29081
>implying apple manufacturers anything in the US

>>29079
As someone who works in computer forensics, I can't fathom how there isn't apparently a single person in the FBI who doesn't understand how encryption doesn't work. It's strong math, not some security-through-obscurity decoder ring where there's a magic word that lets you in. Without the user's password, there's no getting in, period.

This is what scares me about our government. How can people that stupid get into a position where a little basic Wikipedia research could save them millions in legal fees?

>>29326
>He doesn't know Mac Pros are made in Texas

>>29401
apple corroborated reports that they had done this many times before for the FBI

I swear to fuck, Apple. If you give in...

>>29401
>>29490
To me, it seems as if some bright young up-and-coming fellow at the FBI decided it was too much of a waste of time and protocol to go through covert channels to Apple constantly, and decided to streamline the process. So they picked the case that they thought would give them the most public support and decided to take their process public, but didn't anticipate that Apple wouldn't comply (or that they would resist this hard).

>>29079

This is a ruse to make americans trust apple

I guarantee you the NSA would have been into that phone after 30 seconds.


Furthermore, this wasn't originally the FBI whooshing in to end privacy by ordering backdoors into every apple device without any precedence (the CIA and NSA have already done that anyways), Apple is just refusing to acknowledge a court order

>>29499
>This is a ruse to make americans trust apple
That's actually irrelevant.

Anybody that trusts an American tech company is either woefully ignorant or full retarded. The main point is this is an FBI power-grab, an attempt to do through force of court what the NSA couldn't do through corruption of encryption standards.

This is more about accountability than it is about the fact of the matter, the US gov't already has the power it just wants to be able to use it openly without blowback from the ideals it is supposed to uphold.

>>29401
The iPhone keeps its encryption key in memory even when the phone is locked, so that you don't have to enter a long key every time you unlock the phone. However, if you get the unlock code wrong ten times, the encryption key is wiped from the memory. The FBI thinks there is a way to patch the operating system without turning the phone off so that it doesn't do that, and they want Apple to write that patch. Then they'd just have to brute force the unlock code, which is probably a four digit PIN or something.

The government hoards zero days, and a proprietary operating system like iOS is likely to have a lot of them. If it was really important I think it's safe to bet that they could access the data on the phone. What they are trying to do is set the legal precedent that they can require companies to undermine the security of their products. That's why Apple isn't cooperating. They could access write the patch and apply it in house so that the specific security vulnerability would never leave their doors, but they don't want the FBI to have that legal precedent.

>>29120
>Combine it with the tendency of the NSA to back new encryption algorithms that have built-in backdoors (see: Elliptic curve cryptography)
lolwat Are you talking about some implementations, or the algorithm? Is there any evidence of that? The U.S. government can use ECC for classified documents up to top secret, which is a rule that is set by the NSA. They know full well that a back door for them is a back door for anyone.

>>29496
i think you are partially right.. fbi decided that with anti-terrorist sentiment very high amongst the public, the time was right to make a very public power play against apple for private disclosure of their proprietary secrets. they felt they would have public opinion behind them in this argument and, theoretically, public opinion affects elected officials and their legislation, so elected officials as well.

what has surprised me is that they have received court rulings in their favor for what they are attempting to do... which is... violate the 2nd amendment of the constitution...

>>29662
He's talking about the standardized choice of constants in the algorithm, I believe. And yes, there's plenty of evidence. http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html summarizes it nicely.

>>29228
But I need to post that picture of me eating at that new noodle fusion shop or I'll literally die.

>DOJ steals apples source code, licenses it under the GPLv3

I guess stallman has some friends high up there

>>29118
But when Trump is elected, he'll bring jobs back from overseas!

>>29183
>Fuck Apple fanboys.
You fucking retard.
I've despised apples design philosophy for most of my life and I've never bought a single one of their products, but you can't have your head so far up your ass to see that this is a problem even if you aren't an apple fanboy.

>>29082
Welcome to the watch list, fucker

>>29670
it's how the Patriot act got through.

>>29120
China will just steal those secrets in like a week or so after the government gets them.

>>29084
This, I've never been cheering for Apple on anything, but they've won my respect so far for not falling for this shit.