For all of you that have been living under a dark hole for some time, the FDA is essentially trying to destroy vaping.
These regulations can be found in this 499 page document here: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2016/05/10/2016-10685/deeming-tobacco-products-to-be-subject-to-the-federal-food-drug-and-cosmetic-act-as-amended-by-the
Now, to summarize what this is saying is that Cigars and Electronic Cigarettes will be classified as a tobacco product, and so with all Vape Liquids.
This means that every time a company comes out with a new product it will have to go through an application process, and in case you are unaware, just to send an application to the FDA costs roughly a million USD (and this is for every product that is made).
This could mark the end of vaping as we know it, and these regulations will go into effect in the months to come.
Companies simply will not be able to pay for the application process for their products, and all products on the market will be cigalikes.
Now, thoughts?
Vaping is retarded and vapists are cancerous degenerates, but I don't think it should be illegal
>>44864
Vaping has saved plenty of lives, and not everyone is simply a douchebag who thinks it's cool to blow massive clouds in people's faces at a coffee shop.
Now, that's retarded.
>>44867
Vaping has temporarily stopped a tiny group of people from accelerating their deaths
>>44868
>tiny portion
>8 million Americans vape
But that's implying that all of them are vaping to quit cigs, but that's not the case, so it's a lower number then that, but even then, that's still a good amount of people. And the cloud chasing faggots are a minority. Vaping is also (arguably) the best way to get off of cigs, and I've talked to plenty of people who have quit that way.
>>44869
And many of those that switched to vaping have already sealed their doom
>>44817
That's not even close to true. Your body is able to repair itself overtime, but that's not to say that you'll be in the same state that you were before you started smoking, but you'd certainly be better off after you quit.
>>44872
You can just click on the number on my post.
The issues with smoking aren't all "repairable". You can do permanent damage, and you can get cancer.
>>44873
yeah i know but my browser has been fucky and it's easier to type it out
And I'm well aware of the permanent damage it can cause, but even if it's only fixing some problems, it still remains a better option that to keep on smoking.
>>44876
Yeah, it's a better option than smoking, what's your point? It's still not a + that people vape.
>>44878
But my point is that its better that people vape then smoke.
Although this was supposed to be about how fucked the FDA regulations are, but this works too.
I think this is fair. We don't know any longterm adverse effects of vaping. Better to enact restrictions now rather than wait until everyone gets cancer. And if no effects are observed, then the restrictions can be lifted. Also it's not that hard to make your own liquid, and they can't really restrict that.
>>44863
I don't care if people vape, I care if they blow their disgusting smoke around in a public building. Ban it in public places and I'll be happy.
>>44871
how is vaping bringing their doom
>>44928
>have already
>>44863
Make laws about vaping similar to smoking? Sure, go ahead, cause smokers have to follow the same rules.
But everyone in this thread who is actively supporting even more of a nanny state needs to off themselves asap. Nobody gives a fuck if you like vapers or not, supporting the government telling more people what they can and can't do is cancer.
>>44939
Literally two people have supported banning it - one only in public places. Are you just mad that everybody else still hates vapers like yourself?
>>44863
Why would I care about people who use the mouth fedora?
>>44949
Because you don't want more of them
>>44884
>he thinks it's easy to lift restrictions
>>44863
Knew it.
Ciggys will never die. They need to, though.
Aw why do chicken products have to be checked by the FDA mannn, shouldn't anyone just be able to sell chickens freely on a massive scale with no public health regulations. The government is just trying to keep us down.
Something that is being consumed by the US population should go through basic health/safety tests.
>>44863
That sucks I guess, but will it stop me from easily obtaining a mouth fedora and some pure nicotine to vape within the next month or two?
>Early studies have also revealed that when propylene glycol or glycerin are heated and vaporized, they can degrade into formaldehyde and acetaldehyde, he said.
Why can't they use water?
Also
>Our USP pharmaceutical grade Kosher nicotine is extracted from tobacco leaves grown in the United States that is 99.97% pure. We keep our nicotine under refrigeration until it is mixed for your use to ensure freshness and full potency.
Can one of you vape nerds tell me what Kosher Nicotine is? What the fuck?
>>45013
Formaldehyde and acetaldehyde occur naturally in the body and the amounts that could possibly be decomposed into is negligible.
>>44864
Why is this a meme still? I don't get it. I haven't seen a person who vapes annoy me or anyone around me ever. The closest I came was a "cloud competition" at my local tobacco/vape store being advertised around town. That shit is just smart business sense, I can't even hold it against them.
Yet everywhere I go online is people screaming "VAPERS xD" "VAPE NASH BRAH". Is it just a case of people picking the low hanging fruit or what?
On the topic of the article, harm reduction of any kind is a good thing. Even if vaping isn't 100% safe, it's better than the alternative of smoking.
>>45026
>low hanging fruit
You've already got an opinion it seems
Anyway, once again the argument is that vaping is good because it's not smoking.
>>45026
It's the same as shooting outdoor cats and shitting in geocaches or rivers or complaining about anime on 4chan
All just shitposting. While it's possible for those things to have valid arguments those kinds of posts tend to just be either ad hom or some fallacious, picky argument they don't even believe in
>>44884
Because most vapors are just propylene glycol, natural flavor, and nicotine. We have used the first ingredient in many things, especially as a solvent in IV liquid medications. We have used it for decades with no ill effect.
>>45013
You have to have it in massive concentrations in a short period of time for it to have any ill effect. Doctors reason there is no medical adverse effect because it is impossible to consume enough to reach that point.
I am a veterinary tech and our diazepam has propylene glycol because that substance is insoluable in water. We get our injection meds from the same supplier as a human hospital, so it is the same for human Valium. Many medications are insoluable in water.
>>45124
>>45125
>>45013
Propylene glycol has a well established safety when taken orally. Orally.
There's fucking nothing about what it does as a gas at vaping concentrations. The CDC has studied it as a workplace contaminant, but only in fuckhuge doses.
You don't know what it does, and I don't know what it does. Nobody knows.
We'll have to wait at least 60 years to know how it affects people long-term.
Anything between now and then is just guesswork.
>>45136
Except that there have been studies on inhaling it since 1942. So more than 60 years.
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932876,00.html
Afrin, an intranasal allergy medication inhaled through the nose has been on the market for years and contains propylene glycol.
There are also tons of pre-clinical trials hinting to its complete safety but SURPRISE SURPRISE they're meeting difficulties with funding to make a study worthy to be considered a clinical trial. Hmmm....wonder where that block could come from?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18158714
>>45142
I'll also add my last link is about how it is used in the medical setting as a solvent for inahlable cyclosporine, which is given during organ transplants. This is specfically about lung transplants. If it's safe for people with the most fragile lungs in the world, it's fine.
>>45136
Why do people post outright lies? Are you shilling or shitposting?
>>44863
Not a big fan of vaping, but $5 on big tobacco lobbyists pushing this.
>>45161
agreed
I'm positive big tobacco is behind this
>>45026
I know 3 people who only started vaping because it was the in-thing. 2 of which both sent me a million snapchats of them vaping and trying to do tricks. Both of them browse /g/ and parrot shit from them, go figure. I talk to one of them all the time and back when it was still a new thing he fit all the shitty stereotypes that people attach to them.
phillip morris should build vapes
prblem solved
Glad to see the government is doing something useful. Vaping is for faggots and we certainly need less faggotry in this country.
>>44863
>the FDA is essentially trying to destroy vaping
>Cigarettes will be classified as a tobacco product
because there can be nicotine in it, idiot
if taxes go up they have to reduce the price for the liquid itself by cheaper production and/or lager quantaties of production
don't be a phony
>>44863
Who gives a shit, addict faggot?
Why do people get such a hard on for hating vaping? Kids and people who want to will smoke it anyway,before vaping people got into cigarettes to look cool. Now its vaping, and its 1000 times better than ciggies. Many peers at my school look at someone as a crazy fucker for smoking cigarettes which 20 years ago it would be the norm to start smoking cigarettes. You anti vaping faggots may as well be working for cigarette companies for free if you hate vaping so much.
>>45828
Is it impossible to understand that people might think both are retarded?
I sat next to a vaper at my college graduation. I'm glad he was puffing. I wish all the people on the line for the bus would vape.
>>44863
>This could mark the end of vaping as we know it
Good. It should've ended before it began.
>>44869
I smoked for ten years, starting when I was 12, honestly quitting is just a matter of willpower and actually wanting to.
Vaping is just transferring your addiction to something else, comparable to methodone, only methodone is not made in a laissez-faire chinese factory like vape liquid.
This is of course disregarding that everyone I know who vapes to "quit smoking" still smokes, just only when they're at home or in their car.
I realize that my anecdote about quitting smoking is just that, an anecdote, but I have a very hard time accepting vaping as having any social value whatsoever, except for maybe through eugenics.
https://m.mic.com/articles/138775/is-vaping-bad-for-you-here-are-the-negative-health-effects-of-smoking-from-a-vape#.LOV6t4kK8
It's obviously not as bad as cigarettes but regardless it's people consuming chemicals and flavorings of unknown makeup with complete abandon. People should be fucking relieved that someone is actually going to verify the contents of a mixture they are inhaling on an hourly basis instead of putting their hands over their ears and humming.
As far as cloud chasing faggots, I don't know any and my issue is more with people I care about pretending vaping is kosher when we won't actually know the side effects or lack thereof for another 20 years. In the meantime it's probably stupid to continue vaporizing and breathing in flavorings and dyes.
>>44868
Yeah, I'm sure inhalers only temporarily help people with asthma who will eventually have an asthma attack anyways, right?
Even if this is the blatant truth, explain to me how this is a bad thing? Downplay the issue all you ant, but if you really hate vaping that much, just admit it.
>>45797
nicotine is not tobacco. Nicotine is just a very small component of some plants, including tobacco.
Saying Nicotine is a Tobacco product is like saying lemon or salt is an alcoholic beverage.
>>46039
The problem is putting chemicals into your lungs. Lungs are very delicate. They're not meant to have anything but air being put into them.
Stop being a dumb teenager.
>>46009
recreational drugs =/ medicine
You fucking mong
That is correct. Stop smoking and start vaping. Vaping is another habit, isn't? Not mentioning the overpriced-overhyped vaporizers, batteries and liquids.
>>46074
Actually just replace cigarettes with heroin
If it stops those faggot old women from vaping on the bus and other public places Im totally for it
>>46049
>recreational drugs =/ medicine
This this this. Why are vapists other assorted druggies so vapid?
>LOOK THEY USED LSD TO CURE DEPRESSION
>THEREFORE SMOKING DOESN'T CAUSE CANCER
Yeah, in a person who was actually clinically depressed.
You fucking mong
Everyone who vapes is a tool. We all know this, and y'all can try to defend yourselves, but us normal humans who kill ourselves with real tobacco and other illegal drugs laugh at your ridiculous reasonings for doing this shit (at least we know the long term effects of tobacco and other drug uses). Try and defend yourself with science it wont work because there are very few studies on this shit. Especially long-term effects on your health. Even though there will be harsh regulations, they are there so it can be controlled until conflicting evidence showing that it is safer comes about; then the regulations might change.
>>46141
>everything should be tightly regulated until (unless? what?) government tells me it's safe
That's a silly idea.
>>46172
If you want to sell drugs the burden of proof should be on you to show that they are safe before they can be sold. That's what we do with medicine.
>>44863
good. vapes are mouth fedoras anyways.
>>46176
They're not medicine and none of them seem to be marketed as medicine.
>bbbut buuut I want to protect other people from themselves
You can't. If you've had any life experience, you all ready know this.
>>46232
You're right, they aren't medicine, so there's even less reason to allow them to be sold
>>46267
Then we should forbid the sale of any product period because you cannot derive nutritional or medicinal value? Are you trolling?
>>46301
>should we forbid the sale of drugs?
Yes, if you want to sell drugs then you should have to prove that they are safe
>>46267
but cigarettes are OK
>>46351
Did I say that?
Vaping help me and a few friends stop smoking cigarettes. 1-2 months in to vaping and you quit smoking altogether.
>>46360
I hope nobody is ever stupid enough to grant you the tiniest sliver of power.
>>46399
Drugs are bad mmmkay
>>46367
But you didn't quit. You're still vaping.
Until we know vaping is safe it can't considered a cessation aid.
>>44863
> just to send an application to the FDA costs roughly a million USD
This is misleading to the point of being a lie. You are talking about the PreMarket Approval process for Medical Devices. They don't use PMA for tobacco products and probably won't for vapes either.
Also, it's true PMA is extremely expensive, but there's a lot of subsidies and fee-wavers for small business or innovative products that can drop the cost significantly.
>>45016
Alcohol dehydrogenase in the body converts consumed ethanol into aldehydes in the body which are officially classed as a carcinogen here in Canada, even in the small amounts produced as a part of your metabolism everytime you take a swig of wine or beer.
"FDA getting involved" just means that the federal gov't is pissed off that they arent getting their cut of the cash involved. Fewer cigarettes purchased = less tax dollars in their pocket. They only want to crack down on this to regulate and tax the piss out of it. Anyone who thinks the FDA actually gives a fuck about your health is a chump. If they did, then why has Monsanto been allowed to pump your food full of frankenshit for the last 20 years or so?
And for the record, i use the ecig, because i like it. No rationalization beyond that, and dont care what other people do in their pursuit of "cool", because there is no such thing. I also hate and refuse to use the term "vape", except for when i have to, like right now to say i hate it.
>>46479
"vape" is technically a more correct term than "e-cig" because they produce 'vapor' while having nothing to do with actual cigarettes other than looks and delivering nicotine.
>>46480
Yeah, nothing to do with except it delivers nicotine, you puff on it, and it's like, electronic n shit: e-cig.
Technically, you may now go vape a penis. Thanks for chiming in.
>>46474
And?
>>46423
But you can change the concentration of nicotine. You can buy it with just flavored vapor and zero nicotine. One brand of disposable ones (Fantasia I think) focuses primarily on those without anything other than flavor.
That is how most I knew weaned themselves off nicotine dependence period. And if they get that urge or some anxiety, they can sub with vaporizing to have a placebo action to calm them.
How the fuck do you think Nicorete gum and patches work? They give you nicotine and wean.
>>46484
The point is he is showing you is that you are repeating and parroting a post almost exactly as before. Can't believe you haven't read an entire less than 100 post thread. Or you just have no real retort to links provided and are repeating yourself.
>>46345
>drug
A word never said in the post you quoted, and such a subjective terminology.
>>46492
Yes I'm sure your anecdotal evidence is entirely worthwhile
And what you reference covers one study concerning the effects of the medium glycol. The conversation has clearly moved on from this.
It's a drug. Vaporising is just another method of delivery of your drug of choice.
>>46345
I don't recall coffee and energy drink companies sending in these $1m applications
>>45161
Of course they are, they're the only ones willing to shell out the moola. Markten and vuse and blu and all that shit doesn't sell as well when people get tired of their shitty performance and flavor. They have to compete.
>>45230
I believe their plan is to eliminate the competition, then produce their own brand-name mods. It seems like the wisest couse, given the general decline in public opinion on smoking
>>46479
>"FDA getting involved" just means that the federal gov't is pissed off that they arent getting their cut of the cash involved.
I agree with this, with some caveats.
>If they did, then why has Monsanto been allowed to pump your food full of frankenshit for the last 20 years or so?
But then you had to go and spoil it.
>>44863
Good
Literally ruined smoking for everyone. Maybe in 20 years we can smoke cigars and blow smoke rings again with out being associated with degenerate baboons.
>>46541
>This is the product of D.A.R.E.
Because of people with logic likw yours, child pedophiles go free after a decade, but a guy selling weed gets 55 years
I hope you don't exercise to the point of feeling an endorphins high, you filthy degenerate. Or drink tea.
what I don't get is if these products are soo bad for you that they need to be essentially banned then why can anyone still buy tobacco? fact: tobacco kills people. yet still available for purchase at every corner store. fact: vaping has never killed anyone! in fact there is no actual proof that there is long term negative effects of vaping. does this logic not seem ass backwards to anyone else?
>>46770
Fact: life kills people.
>>44863
>the FDA is essentially trying to destroy vaping
good.
>thread about the regulation of a product the FDA should not regulat
>faggots start talking about how they don't like vapers so it's ok
Bunch of unprincipled plebs in here.
>>46709
You're getting hysterical to the point of being completely nonsensical, conflating several different things
Is it really a bad thing that drugs should be regulated?
Government never will like losing money. Not saying all government is fucked but just sayin. Doesn't matter the cost the loss is they're issue. Fuck how do fucked up people get guns how do those that sell them get those guns? Hmmm black market I suppose. My point is they don't give a fuck if ot really helps those quit that we're dumb enough or brainwashed into doing it in the first place.
