>>21991
Try not to post memes for ants.

>>21991
Do It Faget

dem insightful answers. Thought 4chan would deffo help me make up my mind.

>>21998
>post your opinions on 4chan
>expect a serious answer

>>22000
/news though innit

even if its not said in a serious way.

I'M OUT OF OPTIONS OKAY. I NEED TO KNOW HOW TO VOTE BRO AND 4CHAN IS THE ONLY THING TO HELP ME DECIDE

surely there is 1 britfag with a legit opinion

>>22001
if you break away from the eu, is there a chance the British Empire will rise again? if so, i'd say that chance is worth the vote.

>>22004
thats all i wanted

legit opinon from 4chan user

good, looks like im voting out. Can't wait to mistreat the rest of the planet again.

Think we are too pussy to do anything tbh though, probs just get bent over by russians

>>22006
godspeed

I don't think we should but I haven't really looked at the cons all I know is that if we do leave well get so many draconian laws that the eu has been preventing

>>22006
Rise of the British Empire will clash with the American Trump regime. Inb4 WW3 is between nato allies.

But just because the EU is preventing conservative draconian laws isn't a good enough reason. If we had a progressive government and the EU decided to become more conservative and continue to push it's neo liberal agenda then the positive you sight would become negative?

Leaving the eu would be a fucking disaster for everyone. Imagine what the conservatives could get away with without euro regulation breathing down their necks

Scottish here. I voted "no" in the independence referendum.

Many reasons why, but the UK being part of the EU was a big one.

If the UK leaves the EU, I'm fucking off from the UK.

>>21991
>more progressive

It sounds like you just like them making things cheaper for you

Nah, what I like are things like.. Votes for prisoners, rights for people to stay in a country without needless deportation, I like free movement... Alot. I like that I can go anywhere I Europe easily.. I like that we have big Polish communities.. I can walk into Polish shops in my town and feel like I've left the country! I like the human rights act (which our government want to scrap) I just don't like having neo liberal politics pushed on all countries, including countries whos governments are anti austerity like Greece... I don't know if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Cheaper phone tarried are a bonus though Kappa

Oh yeah... Also. TTIP can fuck off. And just in case you cared Scottish person, I'd have voted to leave.

>>21991
the correct answer is leave. Why is this is even a subject to debate?

>>22114
Also, tackling tax avoidance from big cooperations.. Climate change and foreign policies needs to be done as part of a big entity..

>>22115
Explain why.

>>22117
because it allows us to make our own laws again, we gain tighter border controls, contrary to what camoron said, the borders won't scale back to use because France fucking said they won't stop checking people for us.
We'd also still be able to trade with everyone just as well or even better than we do now.
Also because fuck merkle. those are the primary and important reasons.

>>22119
Tighter border controls implying we gave too many people when in fact we need more for institutions like the NHS. My gf has come over from Spain to work as a nurse because we don't have the skills here.. Do you mean Tighter as in less or Tighter as in more control?

the EU is the only way for the UK to stay relevant in the world politics. america can stay on it's own. china can. The UK can't.

>>22122
Why does it matter to be important in world politics?

>>22027
>>22027
>>22048
This. Don't trust Cameron with our laws

>>22004
British empire won't rise again with these sjw cucks

You sound like the Scottish that wanted to break off from UK, or the Anti-Americans that claim they are patriotic.

It sounds all Gung-ho, go it alone, but you'll be left without a paddle so far up shit creek when you hit a crisis because you pissed off your neighbors. They'll just look at you and laugh and won't even consider sending aide.

>>22140
I'm fully undecided and really can't draw a conclusion.. The difference with Scottish independence is that Scotland are naturally centerist and have been dominated by right wing governments for years. I'd be pissed off if my country was progressive but was held back by another bigger institution, kind of the opposite of the current situation.. The EU is more progressive than the UK government. Don't know if that means I want all of my laws made there just on the off chance we get a left wing labour government in 2020 who can't follow any of their policies because the EU won't let them.. Saving steel, regulating banks, nationalising public services etc..

You are right though, Europe does do alot for us and I don't think that should be underestimated. If we did have a crisis we wouldn't be looked upon favourevly. We should be doing more to help refugees and the fact we aren't shows how cunty we are. If the tables we turned we'd be outraged that our neighbours wouldn't help us.

>>22140
I'd rather be part of a reformed Europe.. Perhaps less beurocratic.. But the nature of the institution means it's probably not going to become democratic and probably not going to enable local decision making..

>>22142
Helping the Refugees is a huge undertaking, don't self guilt yourself(selves) for failing. I don't think Europe has experience or the land and resources to even accommodate a few thousand per country let alone the numbers they are experiencing now. And then there is teaching the local cultures to the immigrants so they integrate into society.

>>22136
Why not? Don't you want United States prison stats?

>>21991

>neoliberalism
>progressive
>austerity for a broke county with 50% of the employed working for the government and letting people retire at 50 disgraceful

No one is answering you because you are a fucking idiot

>>22159
^

>>22159
that double post.

U R JENIUS M9

>>22147
Yeah, that is true. Integration is an underestimated problem. Can't really see myself ever being guilt free though... at the very least, if we are going to set arbitrary figures of people we will take in, it should be a bit more than 20k surely..

I'm stuck, I have been stressing about something that probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I could spend all my time trying to work out what is the right thing (in my opinion to do). Or i could just not bother and play some games and look at hentai etc.etc.

It seems pointless putting this much thought into it when some old timer daily mail racist will just vote leave because they don't like immigrants. Maybe i should just vote stay because it fits my demographic.

>>21991
>I like free movement..
20 years ago sure, before millions from the 3rd world came swarming in

>>22029
joint effort to purge the mudslimes more like

>>21991

I'd question what would be the benefit of either path. The current government is a crock of shit, as was the previous and the one before that. I wonder how much of their incompetence is being blamed on Europe. That said, I don't agree with the fact that we have to pay the union money to do things. If we were like the US, then maybe, but Europe as a union appears so ineffectual as it stands.

>>22185
It may seem pointless to you, indulge at your leisure, but if you know your stuff you can swing people on the fence who can effect change.

>>21991

Turkey has defiled the EU, they are going to drag you into WW3

>>22229

Wait I'm thinking of Nato...

...protect yourself from immigrants!

>>22114
>Kappa
every post you made ITT has reeked off offsiter but this one tipped the scale, can you at least attempt to act like you're on 4chan?

>>22142
>We should be doing more to help refugees
laughingwhores.jpg

>>22136
>This. Don't trust Cameron with our laws
He's not running for a 3rd term, and not being a part of the EU does not guarantee crackpot laws being passed. See: Norway.

>>22142
>We should be doing more to help refugees and the fact we aren't shows how cunty we are.
No we really shouldn't. Saudi Arabia needs to be pressured by the West to at least help deal with a colossal problem that's literally on it's doorstep. We are taking in Syrian refugees because the Saudis are too stubborn to do so. They're not short on funds or a good infrastructure, but they are short of a good reason. We are being burdened with another country's problem.

>>22185

For the refugee issue, here's the problem:

Of the refugees entering any one European country, how many of them do you think are formally educated, let alone speak the language of that country? How many do you think are employable? How many do you think would be willing to integrate into that country and follow its laws (Not saying that they abandon Islam, but fit in with country's society)? How many do you think will become 'productive' members of that country's society?

The unfortunate truth is that, racism aside, most of the Syrian refugees will be a constant drain on their host nation's resources. It would probably be a generation or two, before they would truly start to integrate into that country and follow its laws, pay taxes, etc.

And the above is disregarding the reports of elevated assaults, taxed police forces stretched thin in the areas where refugees are concentrated.

I understand wanting to help someone, but destroying yourself to do it is not progress, it is regression.

>>21991
You should vote to leave m8
>I like a lot of what the EU has done on Human rights
They've done one or two good things, nothing that we couldn't have done ourselves though, they have also done alot of bullshit stuff with human rights (e.g. prisoners must be given the right to vote, convicted foreign criminals can't be deported because of their so-called "right to a family life") and their attitude towards fundemental things like freedom of speech, presumption of innocence and trial by jury are a complete joke.
>I like free movement... I like not having to pay loads of money to use my phone abroad
You shouldn't, because it means the working poor of this country are constantly being undercut by eastern european workers, not to mention the chaos that free movements is causing in the syrian refugee crisis, these things, and this nations indipendence is more important than peoples ability to move around the continent slightly faster and easier and peoples phones bills being cheaper and it's not as if you don't need to keep your passport on you anyway.
>I like the idea of being part of a tarriff free market
So do I, and we can have that without being subjected to the bullshit I've listed above and alot more besides that, why? Because this countries economy is already so well connected with europe they will have no choise but to give us a deal.

1. This is more /pol/ than anything, but /pol/ is retarded, so whatever I guess.
2. Britain leaving the EU would make little to no sense. We'd still be beholden to a lot of their rules simply to get continued trade and we'd then have no ability to influence those rules at all. Plus no real international influence, either. The Empire is dead and it ain't coming back any time soon.
3. If at all, get on board properly and put the whole Brexit question to rest permanently, so we can get properly into forming coalitions and influence EU politics fully. All this fence-sitting is doing is hampering our ability to do tha because nobody wants to team up with the guy that constantly makes noise about walking out the room anyway.

>>21991
Leave you moron how can you want a bunch of Marxists and ex communists who cannot be removed from power passing laws over our country?
It's absolute madness and something we never signed up for in the first place.

>>22114
Shill?

>>22122
Why not? We have one of the biggest economies

>>22208
<3 <3 <3 Thanks

>>22229
Including as many people in the EU project as possible does seem a bit strange, i mean.. Obviously someone has thought it would be positive for both the EU and Turkey if Turkey join but i can't see it myself.. it just increases the problem of different living standards across the EU causing the poorer countries to have weak economies whilst Germany basks in its glory.

>>22231
Kappa GreyFace GunGasm, might got play a Doom2 WAD, watch daily politics then fap on sex.com tyty n1

>>22232
I have a feeling your an idiot

>>22243
At least you have put forward a reasonable argument about not accepting refugees. Yeah, Saudi Arabia should help out more.. Saudi Arabia is not a nice place and no one wants to put sanctions on them (for the time being) with the assumption that they will still be the biggest supplier or oil for a long time to come. Its peoples lives we are playing with. Because the Saudi's won't take them in, it isn't an excuse to let them die etc. etc. left wing hippie shit

>>22326
Thanks for the honest answer. I actually like that Prisoners get the right (in some cases) to vote. It sounds counter intuitive but i think it goes a long way in rehabilitation and it is possible to justify why prisoners should have the vote for other reasons.

Also.. we have the lowest unemployment level we have had for a long time.. we have a living wage coming in.. I don't think saying that eastern Europeans are undercutting workers is a fair analysis. I think if they weren't here our society would be worse off in many ways (jobs not being filled at all, missing skills, less tax revenue vs benefits etc)

You are probably right about them giving us a good trade deal though

>>22327
I guess for me its kind of a principle vs pragmatism thing. I like a lot of what the EU offers, its practical to like free movement, cheap phone tariffs, trade, etc. Its out of principle I would potentially vote leave. We should make the majority of our own laws? Surely that's a good principle to have? but if you vote on a principle and end up still having to follow laws made somewhere else was the principle worth having considering now you have lost out on all the benefits of being in the EU?

>>22343
I am fairly certain there will be an economic crash before 2020 (i can see the future). At this point i don't know if EU would be a benefit or not.

>>22341
Kind of agree with your point. Don't know about them being marxists.. don't know if Marx would have bent Greece over and fucked them with a broom handle.

He probably would have tenderly made love to them until them came..

>>21991
>people actually believe its bad to leave eu
>people think its bad to give us control over our own coutry, rather than being controlled by evil nazi german muslim sympatizer overlord
>eu says no border control in spite of housing and employment crisis and recently getting out of a double dip recession

how can you not think its a good idea

>>22427
Can I ask, which way you vote?

>>21991
i think leaving the EU could benefit the country as a whole in the long run. perhaps even other countries if we inspire them to leave too.

the European Union is a globalist entity which seems to me to only benefit the so called 'elites' of the countries which make up its membership. the majority of us are just force fed ideals we dont agree with while being distracted by materialism and superficial activitites like social media. the poor are kept at bay with handouts such as benefits etc which keep them jobless and zombified. local small business struggle to stay afloat while big corporations and chain supermarkets have so much money they dont even know what to do with it.

look at countries such as italy and greece, how have they benefitted from being in the EU? they were once the keepers of civilisation, some might say the founders of what would become modern day europe and now theyre crippled by unemployment.

i also think that without the EU we wouldnt have caused such a big mess in the middle east and therefore wouldnt find ourselves in this mess we are now with the whole migrant/refugee issue. let us not kid ourselves into thinking david cameron and his lot wanted to help the syrians and the north africans when they poked the fire (aka the arab spring). their motives were no doubt centered around money, resources, power and influence which in my opinion is perpetuated by the globalist culture of the EU coupled with the USA.

now i could be wrong about all this and leaving might not necessarily make everything rosy right away but at leat we will be in charge of our own country more so than we are now

im normally a labour voter but i can see this is not a left vs right issue neccessarily. this is bigger than that; more important than any general election. this is about autonomy

>>21991
I always liked the idea but joining them causes lost control for people who do not always benefit us. Now, they shouldn't have to pander to one country, except they do and it's not Britain.

>>22438
I really appreciate your answer. Can we not blame the US and Britain almost entirely for what we see now? And I mean even further back we were the ones who instilled those dictators in the first place.

Are we not force fed ideals and distracted by mindless consumerism nationally though? You think the conservatives would suddenly spring into some socialist utopia if we left.

The pragmatic argument would be.. Given that you're supposedly left of the centre that you share more general ideological principles with Europe than with the conservatives. (i know I am getting back into party politics)

The EU STOPS and HINDERS the tories being too right.. On the flip side.. If corbyn got elected they'd probably stop him being too left.

You're right about Greece though, it's disgusting and probably the biggest thing tipping me over the fence.

Cameron saying he wants to leave the EU so he can scrap human rights so nonchalantly is rather offputting.

>>22438
>look at countries such as italy and greece, how have they benefitted from being in the EU? they were once the keepers of civilisation, some might say the founders of what would become modern day europe and now theyre crippled by unemployment.

As an Italian citizen I can tell you that the vast majority of problems wih our unemployement issues aren't related to the EU, if anything we have to then the EU for all those campaigns in support of unemployed youths which really helped a lot in here.
Most of our problems are internal stuff that aren't related to our ties with the rest of Europe, like media wants you to believe, we've been brainwashed and fucked over by 20 years of corrupted corporate govenrnment that left the country in the dire situation it is now which makes me fear for the US with Trump going so strong there.

The reason we're in such a sorry state right now is because we've had 20 years of our very own Trump which created a generation of ignorant citizens fed on systematic lies and misinformation on TV, and of course the Vatican put their hands in this as well by explicitly asking people to not vote during elections.

>>22624
Wow, interesting. It's nice to get opinions other than other Britfags. Sometimes it's hard to see the bigger picture when I stick to my comfy little news sources with my comfy friends and talk about it in a particular way from a particular angle. The more I read the more I am persuaded to leave.. That doesnt mean I'm still not on the fence. I haven't been persuaded either way. The pragmatic vs principle thing is getting me the most. Yeah, I want my own government to make its own laws DESPITE the laws that are imposed are more progressive.. Even though if we left the people making my laws would probably make worse decisions.

If corbyn got elected and couldn't do the shit he wanted to do because the EU wouldn't let him, I'd be pissed.

Anyone got any other arguments that lie outside the realm of refugees.. Econonomics and sovereignty.

I do worry that (even though UKIP said it) that my girlfriend who is spanish would no longer be welcome (working as a nurse in the NHS) although I don't think I should actually worry.

>>22621
Also correct.. Very correct. But if we ended up having a more progressive government and the EU stopped them from being progressive would you feel the same way?

EU is a joke, you should either all unite under the new Holy Roman Empire and become one country, or continue as multiple separate countries.

>>22122
>the 5th strongest economy (2nd in Europe) in the world with the 5th strongest army (1st in Europe) with one of 5 seats on the UN secruity council and nuclear armaments will struggle to stay relevant.

>>21991
No we shouldn't
The twats wanting to leave won't know how much harder it will be to get a holiday in one on of those spain places the plebs go to