which is better? i heard many good stuff about the 105er, hating on the sora but nothing really on ultegra, which one is better and why?
>>946636
>105
Respectable entry-level race-ready groupset. Best bang for your buck, and more then what most people will ever need.
>Ultegra
Stiffer, lighter, quieter then 105, but more expensive. If you have the extra cash, spend it here.
>Dura Ace
Another substantial jump in price. Even stiffer, lighter, quieter then the others. Unless you're a pro or have money to burn, it's really not worth it.
>>946636
105 and XT -- reliable for people who want to drop some $$$ on something nice
Sora -- practical choice for anyone who does less than 4 hours a week imho
Ultegra, Dura Ace --- if you're not riding competitively you are wasting your money
The amount of gramz shaved between 105 and Ultegra is a highly questionable argument if you haven't already shaved grams off the rest of the bike
Ah thank you, because i only had a sora bike yet, how is that one?
>>946636
Main differences are shifters, cranks, bottom brackets and derailleurs
With cassettes, chain rings, pedals, brakes, and the like minimal differences
Stuff like a metal stryker plate on the pedal face instead of plastic.
With older Sora the internals of the shifter were mainly plastic and the shifter mechanism was different, with the new 2016 version of the Sora groupset it gets the small paddle for down shifting, but it doesn't get the carbon fiber lever or the metal internal bits that previous ultegra and dura ace models get.
With the cranks you get hollowtech technology with Sora now but it's drastically heavier and a little flexier than previous ultegra
What I do when I want to see a new groupset up close is go to a trek dealer and poke around at it and test ride everything and compare it to your bike at home.
And if you somehow decide you have to have the brand new groupset in your shit just toss it on your old frame
>>946657
mmh, well, i am looking for a new bike, my old one had a sora(bike is broken from someone driving into me) and want to try something different :) .
>>946636
I've used all three groupsets, and I can mostly agree with what the other posters said.
You can feel the difference between 105 and Ultegra, but that difference is smaller with each passing year. Ultegra is slightly lighter, quieter and brakes better. But remember that spending your bucks on Ultegra to shave weight isn't very clever, as you'll get way better bang (or gram) for your buck by investing in wheels, tires or a new cockpit.
Remember that the higher you go, the more expensive all parts become, but they're still compatible. Lots of people run Ultegra but use 105 chains and casettes because they're cheaper. Personally, I highly recommend the 105.
If anyone wants insight into weight weenie grams shaving, there is an educational thing you can do in excel
Buy a $12 grams scale and do this in excel
* weight or google current parts on your bike, put in column 1
* pick a replacement upgrade part you would consider, put grams for it in column 2
* find best price for replacement part you can
Now do this math: column 3 (divided by) [column 1 (minus) column 2]
This gets you Grams Shaved Per Dollar
When I did this, I was shocked to learn a bit:
1. Groupset upgrade had one of the worst returns on grams
2. Goofy little things had an exponentially better return on investment: ultra light inner tube, Ti bolt replacements, carbon top caps, full carbon fork (vs. carbon + aluminum steerer).
The best big ticket grams/$ was wheels. less surprising but important to repeat. Something like an affordable Soul wheelset gave something like 4 grams per dollar over a mid-level mavic wheelset. And grams lost there are the most noticeable due to rotational weight
One funny thing to learn was my "shitty" jamis commuter hybrid frameset with full carbon fork was lighter than my CAAD5 road bike. Oof
>>946669
One more
These velocity veloplugs VS. rim tape were one of the top upgrades, grams per dollar.
silly and small but relevant if you want to objectively weight weenie a bike
>>946669
wow lol, thats nice. well anyways basicly i should go with the 105 i think.
>>946670
>not deburring each hole
>not putting scotch tape over each hole
>weighs next to nothing to do
>feeling superior when you overtake everyone and get the podium
>>946726
You know most wheels already have rim tape right otherwise number tubes don't work
Also most cheap wheelsets and Walmart bikes fet so many flats because the welds are left in machined lso little bits of slag puncture the inner tube
That bikemanfofu guy shows how to grind welds down on poor people wheels
>>946636
just get a little lighter, and a little sharper with shifts desu
iirc the Dura-Ace crank is actually a little more flexy on the non drive side than Ultegra
>>946726
>as if scotch is strong and adhesive enough to withstand 8 bar
Shitposting this badly... Shove off.
>>946735
>iirc the Dura-Ace crank is actually a little more flexy on the non drive side than Ultegra
Not to mention the cassettes asplode if you pedal too hard. This is why all the pro teams run Ultegra cassettes and not DA. Best is as always to pix and mix.
>>946669
>ultra light inner tube
You'd probably save more watts overall by using latex instead of ultralight butyl.
They may weigh less but cannot match the rolling resistance.
Assuming you're talking about ultralight butyl in the first place, of course.
Superlight tyres for racing with no puncture protection can also save something like 50+ grams / tyre.
>>946669
This is brilliant. I may do this for my secondary bike. Where did you source the parts you listed in point 2? Ti bolts, full carbon fork etc.
What about current Tiagra? I didn't feel like I could trust claris/sora and wanted a 10 speed cassette but felt 105 was overkill for my primary use commuting. I didn't consider Ultegra because I felt like my bike would tempt thieves.
>>946661
Don't reply to him and ignore him, half the stuff he says is wrong.
>>946802
Light butyl barely has a watt penalty over latex, and if you go for just light, not supersonics, they're plenty affordable.
>Superlight tyres for racing with no puncture protection can also save something like 50+ grams / tyre.
No, they only save 15-20g per tire compared to the regular versions.
>>946820
4700 Tiagra is good, but it has compatibility issues, it's not backwards compatible with all 10 speed parts. Given the marginal cost vs a 5800 group, there's not much reason to buy it unless you already have 10 speed wheels. Sora is pretty good, and if 4600 was current, I'd have no problems with Sora, but the jump from 3500 to 4700 is pretty big, and new Sora is due next year. Claris is a little cheap for my tastes, and personally I like lots of gears. 3x9 is pretty much the minimum number of gears I will run. Even on 10 speeds, I preferred a triple.
>>946643
>Meme answer
That's not based on facts. Every one just repeats that but almost no one really knows how they actuallly compare.
>>946820
You can't feel the difference between a tiagra casette or ultegra casette if the gear ratios are the same...so if one is durabale enough for you get it
They're talking about super fucking minor differences between the 2 highest end offerings in the shimano lineup
And the differences the guy mentioned in 105, ultegra dura ace have to do with shifters and non drive side crank feel which differs from person to person and length to length
>mfw bought full dura ace off ebay for 250 dollarydoos
>mavic wheelset included too
>>946845
someone please tell me where these are from, I've been seeing them on /n/ and google image search tells me nothing
>tfw no one takes sexually suggestive pictures of me in full commuter grime
>>946847
2nding
>>946847
https://londonedinburghlondon.com/finishers-colour-photos/
>>946816
I made the chart to do a dirt-cheap weight weenie bike so I was looking on ebay and aliexpress
After that experience, I wouldn't buy chinese carbon, but that's another story
I'll post a screenshot of the Excel spreadsheet + the formulas tomorrow. they're on a different computer
>>946669
>Ti bolt replacements, carbon top caps
These are poor value replacements. Ti bolts bottom out at $1/g if you're lucky. Carbon top caps aren't all that light compared to a lightweight alloy cap
>>946832
Groupset weights (caliper brake versions):
5800 - 2,445g
6800 - 2,294g
9000 - 1,998g
sauce is http://www.thebikelane.com.au/2015/06/2015-road-groupset-weights/
The differences in noise, stiffness, and shifting feel are all there, the biggest difference being front shifting, where DA is noticeably better than Ultegra and 105. The main reason to upgrade is still gramzzz, though.
I wonder if Campagnolo will ever be able to offer a decent value proposition to upgrade from Chorus.
>>946990
>less metal is stiffer than more metal
Most Ultegra is stiffer in tests that have compared Ultegra to DA. DA has better stiffness to weight. Either one is stiffer than you need.
>>946990
>I wonder if Campagnolo will ever be able to offer a decent value proposition to upgrade from Chorus.
And no, that's stupid, because Campagnolo has advertised Chorus as being Record/Super-Record performance for well over a decade. The only differences are more carbon or titanium or holes, which is never cost effective.
>>946636
Better for what? If all you're doing is riding around for fun or commuting then 105 is as much as you'll ever need. If you're racing and you're less than a Cat-1/2 Pro, Anything more than Ultegra is a waste of money. /thread
So sora is shit compared to 105+ or is it just plain shit?
Personally think the alivio drivetrain on my hybrid is smooth af
>>946990
What are 5800 etc ? What does these numbers mean ? ( real question . Im not a troll)
>>947057
Yeah thats what i want to ask . I got hit with a car . My bike is a racing bike with sora , because paint damage etc i get themoney back . So i just repair the wheel and save for maybe a good fuji racing bike with 105 gear .
>>946983
Okay you were right, I was talking out of my ass about Ti bolts. It's very close to 1 g/$
>>946980
Example of the Excel sheet attached
Here's the math(s):
>Column G: =C3-E3
>Column H: =G3/F3
simple
If you want to get "total gramz shaved" use
>=SUM(E3:E31) at the bottom of the g columns
>>947086
I was also remembering wrong about top cap, veloplugs, and Ti bolts
Murder me. I've made amends.
* Get light tubes
* KCNC foam grips for MTB (uncomfortable though)
* Chinese full crabon fork if you are a bad enough dude
>>947074
>http://www.thebikelane.com.au/2015/06/2015-road-groupset-weights/
Series numbers. There's been quite a many iterations of dura ace and ultegra you know. I guess those in the link are the newest. There's also the electronic versions
>>946767
>Using deprecated units
Please re-read the SI Brochure
>>946990
>No space between the number and the unit symbol
Please re-read the SI Brochure
The arithmetic of your source is faulty. I recommend that you sum the component masses yourself for an accurate total mass.
>>947008
>Mixing unit systems
Please re-read the SI Brochure.
