This is happening in my area, a lot of people are getting upset about the transportation of oil in trains and pipelines.
Few people understand that without the pipeline, they'll be shipping it in lorries instead.
Any wisdom from the peanut gallery that is /n/?
I like trains.
>>921616
The problem isn't the trains, it's the oil, most of which goes to feed the cager menace.
We should be using it far more carefully, reserving it for running the actual trains, emergency vehicles, delivery vehicles, etc.
Most people should live in concentrated cities and ride bicycles or trains for maximum energy efficiency. Personal vehicles should be banned and anyone advocating for their use stuffed into redbird cars and converted into environmentally sound coral reefs.
t. a civilized person
>>921616
1. There have been several incidents in the past few years of oil tanker cars exploding.
2. A pipeline is controversial because it involves land ownership and eminent domain rules.
and
3. There's a general sense that anything that makes getting oil to market faster is a step in the wrong direction - ideally the oil should stay in the ground.
Oil won't be shipped by trucks. It's too expensive and not worth it. It'll be by rail, barge, ship, or preferably pipeline. Whenever you want to move large amounts of any substance their will always be spillage and accidents. Pick your poison, but it's bound to happen. I'm partial to moving it by rail, but pipelines make a lot of sense in the long term.
Don't listen to all the faggots on here with their fairy mobiles talking about how bad cars are. They don't realize that oil is what makes the world turn and is used in a lot more things than just fueling cars.
>>921620
>cager menace
Shut up, faggot. Without the automobile you'd probably be living in a mud hut as a subsistence farmer and you wouldn't even know what a bicycle is, let alone own one.
>>921631
>U.S. Transportation fuel consumption accounts for over 70 percent of total U.S. oil consumption, and more than 65 percent of that amount is for personal vehicles. American drivers consume about nine million barrels of gasoline per day for personal transportation—378 million gallons every day—about 45 percent of total U.S. oil consumption.
>— U.S. Energy Information Administration
Remember kids, if we can't text while murdering people in our personal H2 Hummers, the entire world will grind to a halt!
Zomg a big non moving metal pipe is so dangerous!!!
Lets transport 20 million pounds at 120kph on two little pieces of steel instead, much safer.
I don't get it. It seems like a train derails every day.
>>921638
Warren Buffet owns BNSF and makes huge money shipping oil via rail. He's also one of the largest opponents of the Keystone XL pipeline. Do the math.
>>921638
>zombg an aluminum tube with fins is so dangerous!
I don't see you volunteering to have an explody pipe routed through your backyard
>>921641
>What are shut off valves and monitoring...
>>921642
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_century
Which of these was prevented by "shutoff valves and monitoring"?
>>921642
History has shown oil companies are really not good about holding up their end of the bargain when it comes to monitoring, and shut off valves are usually not frequent enough to prevent an amount of oil that would cause an environmental disaster. They just prevent it from endlessly spilling for weeks unless it's BP.
>>921637
>Gives two numbers
>One says American use 65% of oil for personal vehicles
>One says 45%
What?
Oil is used heavily in the manufacturing of plastics and other consumer goods that you use everyday. Oil is used to power work equipment to build schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure. Oil is used to fuel powerplants and generators. Oil is used for just about everything. To whine about automobiles when discussing oil is infantile and close minded.
>>921649
One is transportation fuel consumption, the other is fuel for personal vehicles. What you cagers doesn't grasp is that personal vehicles are optional, whereas we actually need infrastructure like trains and ships and so on. And what sane people advocate is the reduction of thousands of cagers driving through 100 miles of parking lots to buy groceries, when we could cluster residential areas intelligently instead, so that food for thousands of people is within a few minute's walking distance.
>>921649
>cagers sucking at logic
What a surprise!
>>921651
>People live lifestyles I don't like
>Better force them to live in artificial communities instead
Fuck off, retard. Personal vehicles are not optional in the modern world.
>Take a train or bus or ride your bike
Can't fucking take a bus to a worksite 200 miles from my house at 5:30 in the morning. Stop being a close minded imbecile and recognize there's more to the world than your hipster dream land. The people that actually make your world possible don't sip lattes after riding their bike to the locavore farmer's co-op.
>>921654
You mean "closed minded", and maybe you should have found a place to live that wasn't 200 miles away.
My cager ex-coworker insisted on taking the Acela every day because she absolutely had to live in a ginormous McMansion in some godforesaken valley somewhere. She eventually filed a highly dubious "disability" claim so she could work remote (she was obese, like most of your kind). I guess those 2 hour commutes actually are optional, in the modern world :)
>>921657
>Doesn't understand that people have mobile work locations that cover hundreds of miles.
To be a simpleton...
>>921657
>maybe you should have found a place to live that wasn't 200 miles away.
Why should he have to? He has a car. :^)
>>921659
Almost nobody does, no doubt you could petition Comrade Sanders for an exception so that the death squads don't bury you with the rest of the counterrevolutionaries.
I personally hope it isn't granted though. You're a whiny, self-victimizing twat.
>>921661
Why are you so concerned about people living their lives how they want to? People that whine about automobiles are modern day communists. Constantly wanting people to justify their life choices and wanting to use force of law to get people living in cramped cities. Get bent you self-important mouth breather.
>>921662
No U
With extensive public transit systems people would consume less oil
>>921688
For example there are whole cities and their suburbs and surrounding region with little or no public transit infrastructure available for people make an alternative choice in their mode of travel
LA has 18 million and what does it have? Two too short subways some dinky lightrail.
Houston and Dallas each have 6 million people and they have nothing. At all. Pure automotive dependency.
>>921662
Commuter trains to to and through suburbia
Regional and interurban trains travel through the broader surrounding region to big towns and small cities
Providing public transit provides people with a choice
The current situation of automotive dependency denies people a choice
So just who exactly is ordering people to live their lives a certain way?
>>921690
>Houston and Dallas each have 6 million people and they have nothing. At all. Pure automotive dependency.
Retard detected.
>>921691
Fuck off trainguy
>>921712
dont hate me because I'm right
>>921711
>Retard detected
Alright show me the metro railway network, the commuter railway network, the regional & interurban railway network that each of those cities have
You cant
Because they do not have any public transit infrastructure at all.
Maybe a little teeny tiny lightrail in the gentrified downtown with a single route or two a few miles long
So tokenistic it is beyond useless and the vast majority of their population would never see anyway
>>921662
how fun is it to have sex with your sister? I am not even joking, you seem like the type of person who has a lot of experience in this field of study. Is she tight or did you take her virginity? On top of that, how much of your family has been employed by the TVA?
>>921662
>I should be able to ruin the environment and damn future generations because I don't want to change
act like a fucking adult
>>921662
>this reply
so many keks.
>hurr durr I want to do whatever I want without consideration for others
>"society"
>>921718
>Alright show me the metro railway network, the commuter railway network, the regional & interurban railway network that each of those cities have
>http://www.dart.org/
>http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/index.html
>http://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/index.aspx
RETARD
E
T
A
R
D
>>921732
>Houston Metrorail
>no. of tracks: 2
>system length: 22.7 miles/36.5km
>show me the metro railway network, the commuter railway network, the regional & interurban railway network that each of those cities have
>You cant
>Maybe a little teeny tiny lightrail in the gentrified downtown with a single route or two a few miles long
>So tokenistic it is beyond useless and the vast majority of their population would never see anyway
>no. of tracks: 2
>system length: 22.7 miles/36.5km
>Maybe a little teeny tiny lightrail in the gentrified downtown with a single route or two a few miles long
>system length: 22.7 miles/36.5km
>628 sq mi
>6.3 million people
>no of tracks: 2
>system length: 22 miles
>>921732
>>Alright show me the metro railway network, the commuter railway network, the regional & interurban railway network that each of those cities have
>cites tiny lightrail networks
>which are not what he asked for
>and you call him the retard
>he specifically singles out tiny lightrail networks as not up to the job alone
>and you call him the retard
>you cite something else which he is critical of
>and you call him the retard
>>921732
>commuter rail network
>network
>just one miserable line with ten stations
One line doesn't really constitute a network. Just sayan.
>>921732
>Tram goes through the fountain.
Holy shit!
>>921767
it is not commuter rail
>>921638
Rail is actually the less environmentally shitty choice
>>921691
>I think railroads are cheap and easy to build.
>>921723
>If you don't agree with me, you're a child
>>921724
The most basic freedom you can have is to decide where you live and how you earn your livelihood. I don't want to be part of any society that seeks to coerce people through artificial means to live in a ghetto.
>>921949
>responding to trainfag
>ever
Don't.
>>921944
What about a system that allows people like you to pollute my air and commit mass carnage on my roads just so you can masturbate your grotesque notions of "freedom"?
>>921959
>Your roads
>Your air
It doesn't belong to you, pal.
>>921961
It belongs to me more than it belongs to you, cager.
>>921963
Using your dumb hippie logic it belongs to all of mankind, and as a member of the human race I'm entitled to use the air as I see fit. Whether that's combust or breathe it.
>>921944
>>I think railroads are cheap and easy to build.
They are
Much cheaper than roads that soon need to be widened or need new roads built as they become congested
And then there is the externalised costs of the road: the cost to the consumer having to drive everywhere for everything, the cost to society of the low density sprawl it generates, the cost to the environment of the enormous amounts of,pollution generated
>seeks to coerce through artificial means
You mean like providing only one mode of transit?
>ghetto
Commuter trains in suburbs
Regional and interurban in towns further away
>>921949
Slightly bigger than Houston
Still tokenistic.
A couple routes, more than two good for them, in the gentrified downtown each a few miles long.
I've spoken to people from Dallas that have never even seen it much less ridden it.
The place and the population needs substantive infrastructure.
>>921958
Don't hate me because I'm right
>>921966
Your use of the common good doesn't extend to abusing it so others can't use it
>>921966
>it belongs to all of mankind
But this isn't wrong
>and as a member of the human race I'm entitled to use the air as I see fit
Until you render it unfit for others to use, see: your coal-rolling tonka truck. At which point, you are obligated to take precautionary measures. I recommend putting a bullet in your brain.
>>922026
>>922025
You stick air inside of your bicycle tires rendering it unfit for use by others.
You render air unfit for use by others whenever you smoke your precious marijuana.
You consume precious oxygen when you get plowed by your boyfriend.
But hey, my usage of air is somehow morally objectionable to you based on a completely arbitrary means test.
>>922022
So you don't actually know how much it costs to build and maintain track. Thanks for proving my point. It's really easy to spout off ideals you envision about transportation, but it's obvious you don't know how it really works.
>>922033
>You stick air inside of your bicycle tires rendering it unfit for use by others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration
I'm literally giving away carbon credits every time I fill up my tires, freeloader
>You render air unfit for use by others whenever you smoke your precious marijuana.
I know all that oxycontin has damaged your brain to the point where you think everyone is dependent on drugs, but really that isn't the case, cleetus
>You consume precious oxygen when you get plowed by your boyfriend.
Your homophobia is typical of flyover trash, but no, I'm hetero. Not that there's anything wrong with gay.
>But hey, my usage of air is somehow morally objectionable to you
Your actual existence is, objectively speaking, morally objectionable. This has nothing to do with my feelings on the matter.
>>922024
>Slightly bigger than Houston
>Still tokenistic.
>A couple routes, more than two good for them, in the gentrified downtown each a few miles long.
>The place and the population needs substantive infrastructure.
You've clearly never even looked up DART. They have 90 miles of light rail, which runs 6-9 car trains and is mostly elevated or underground. To put this in perspective, NYC has 233 miles.
>I've spoken to people from Dallas that have never even seen it much less ridden it.
Funny, because every single time expansion goes up to vote, the communities in DART's jurisdiction overwhelmingly say yes.
>>922042
>responding to trainfag
JUST.FUCKING.STOP.YOU.MORON.
>>922041
>Your actual existence is, objectively speaking, morally objectionable.
Good thing I'm the one with the money, power, and a car.
Keep playing with your toy thinking you're making a difference in the world by serving lattes at starbucks.
>>922046
I make $105k a year so I can afford to not drive 200 miles to work every day in my shitbox
I'm not the one who needs a difference in my life, but thanks for trying
>>922049
>Claims to make six figures a year
You can lie to yourself, but please don't lie to me.
I love how you find it so objectionable that some people are required to driver a few hours to get to work. That it's some abomination against mankind. Seek professional help.
>>922052
>muh real job
>muh grit and grime and no one else finished school either
I'm honestly a little surprised that you have the capacity for jealousy what with the industrial fatigue, oxycontin, and 4 hour round trip commute. I guess you can thank the union for ensuring that you don't lift a finger between punching in and punching out every day.
>>922053
What are you rambling about? Get help, seriously.
>>922058
You've spent several hours for 2 days in a row, coming to a transportation board to argue against transportation.
Which of us is the one with issues, again?
>>922060
>Hello pot. I'm mr. kettle
>>922061
>false equivalence: the post
I don't go to /o/ to rant about cars being the devil. I don't go to /o/, period. Maybe you should.
>>922064
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space
>>922068
>muh PC boogyman
If you want to keep getting put in your place you are welcome to stay here, but you're showing signs of confusion and dementia. Hence why I recommend you return to your home, where you'll be among your own kind.
>>922069
I think I'll stay. You autists need to stop being such luddites.
>>922042
>building extensive infratructure for something that inherently has low patronage and limited capacity
why
>coupling together self contained units that would be better operated individually
why
>guys please its 90 miles of track
And how big is Dallas?
Its a dinky little lightrail in the gentrified downtown that the vast majority never even see much less use
They need commuter trains to and through suburbia
They need regional and inter-urban trains
I dont know if they need a metro but the commuter could certainly work with an elevated or subway route inside the city centre
And that 90 mile of lightrail would be better used as just a straight up streetcar network
>>922045
>if I ignore someone who disagrees with me I'll be right
>>922082
>if I keep posting the same shitty b8 maybe anons will respond to m8 :^)
SHITPOST
H
I
T
P
O
S
T
>>922080
>building extensive infratructure for something that inherently has low patronage
Yes, let's build a trolley running in mixed traffic, that'll surely get the masses out of their cars
>and limited capacity
I think you're forgetting they run 6-9 car trains, which they can do, because the entire ROW is separated. (Which means in the future they can go full metro) The only other issue is in the downtown segment where they all share the same line, and they're trying to get funding to build a second downtown line, now.
>coupling together self contained units that would be better operated individually
>do everything in their power to make it a light metro instead of light rail
>lol don't do that
>And how big is Dallas?
The better question is, how big is DART's service area? DART is legally only allowed to touch a third of DFW's metro population, which is about 6.75 million. 2.25M/90 = 25000 residents per route mile. NYC's MTA serves all of New York City, and the subway is not allowed to extend beyond it's borders. 8.4M/223 = 37668 residents per route mile. Hmm, does NYC have shitty service? According to this, they do. Or does it not matter because they call their trains subways instead of light rail?
>Its a dinky little lightrail in the gentrified downtown
Please find me a city that has a downtown 90 miles long.
>that the vast majority never even see much less use
You're complaining that these cities don't give people the option to use public transport, but then when they give the option, it's still bad because people aren't using it?
>They need commuter trains to and through suburbia
That's what this essentially is. It's the BART of light rail.
>They need regional and inter-urban trains
Well, yeah
>And that 90 mile of lightrail would be better used as just a straight up streetcar network
They do have what they call streetcars in Downtown Dallas. Surprise, surprise, they're useless routes that are meant to run through the gentrified downtown.
>>922097
Why are you still responding to him? He's been recycling the same bait for years and hasn't changed one bit.
>>921620
>Most people should live in concentrated cities and ride bicycles or trains for maximum energy efficiency. Personal vehicles should be banned
>Contradicting yourself in successive sentences
A new low, even for BernieBros
>>921638
>Mixing unit systems
>Abusing SI prefixes and unit symbols
zomg proper use of SI prefixes and unit symbols as prescribed by the SI Brochure is so hard!!!
Lets just throw letters together in a haphazard fashion, much easier.
I don't get it. It seems like you should re-read the SI Brochure every day.
>>922105
Get fucked faggot.
>>921636
>Cars predate western civilization
Cagelards, everyone.
>>922151
>not knowing what ye olde carte is
>thinking society could have been built with vehicles with less than 1-2 hp
>>922091
>people who disagree and cites facts and argue reason are shitty b8rs
>>922097
>Yes, let's build a trolley running in mixed traffic, that'll surely get the masses out of their cars
What did I say numb nuts?
Commuter train to and through suburbs
Regional and interurban trains
AND THIRD AND FINALLY normal streetcar instead of the overengineered lightrail
>in mixed traffic
Don't drive on the tracks! And where does the streetcar operate? In and around the city centre and surrounding urban area. Where driving is shit and this will encourage riding.
>in the future they can go full metro
The vehicles have low capacity. They are limited in how many they can couple by the platform lengths in the elevated and underground segments. Same thing happened to the Blue Line in LA and Dockland Light Rail in London.
>bizarre numerology tier mathematics
Nigga wut? That doesn't explain shit. And if you're seriously arguing sending this shit out to the burbs you are nuts.
>call their trains subways instead of lightrail
Its not simply a matter of names. They are lightrail because they are smaller and weigh less and have less power.
>a downtown 90 miles long
Lolwut. Now you're just trolling. That 90 miles of track is not a straight line. It is several routes that add up to 90 miles, but they are relatively short
Other cities like Prague and Melbourne and everywhere in Germany and France and Spain that have been reviving trams/streetcars have them operate in conjunction as one network in a system alongside commuter and metro and regional and interurban trains
>You're complaining that these cities don't give people the option to use public transport, but then when they give the option, it's still bad because people aren't using it?
I'm supposed to applaud it even though its no good simply because it is public transit?
My argument is its a shit halfarsed option most can't even use
>>922159
>that's what it essentially is
It doesn't go through the suburbia, its in the downtown
The suburbs have nothing
Before you were saying its going to be a metro now you're saying its a commuter, oh boy the one size fits all lightfail
You're making things up desperately flailing around for a straw to grasp
And sending lightrail out to the burbs trying to use it as a commuter is a terrible idea it doesn't have the capacity or range for that job
>they do have streetcars
Lolwut. They have the dart.
>>922099
>disagreement triggers me
>I need a safe space where I won't be confronted with different opinions or challenging arguments
>>921616
kek,
It's certainly way better to transport all of this with tanker trucks.
>>921649
65% of 70% is 45.5%. Read it again.
>>922444
I'm not sure if that's going to help. Public schools in flyover places are pure shit, hence why he thinks having a decent job and living like a human being is some kind of betrayal of his social class so he comes to /n/ to shitpost about how he hates lattes and farmers markets.
>>922460
*sips organic latte at the local farmer's market*
there is a simple solution, bikes and electric cars need no oil
>>928825
The plastics in both of those things comes from the distillation of oil. Exxon is one of the biggest producers of HDPE used in a crap ton of products. If we only needed oil for non-fuel purposes, however, I figure a lot less would need to be moved around to refineries.
>>921620
>commie shit
I am fine with rail transport for oil
>industry is regulated to hell and back
>trucking and pipelines are a free for all compared to rail
>hard 10 hour limits will stop the train in the middle of nowhere for a crew change
>the rule book is rewritten every time someone sneezes wrong
>media flips out over minor accidents
Aside from the train that blew up that Canadian town there have been no major accidents involving oil trains. Pipeline leaks have killed a few people, polluted waterways, and causes large scale evacuations. As safe as trucking is they still kill far more innocent people than retards who try to cross the tracks at the last second.
>>930394
>hard 10 hour limits will stop the train in the middle of nowhere for a crew change
It's 12 and it's a little more flexible than you think. Few crews will walk 2 miles to be changed out.
