>silicon valley and the peninsula
>for decades, home to lots of highly educated nerds uninterested in fashion, making decent but not stupid money, wearing patagonia vests and flip-flops with socks
>typical day in 1988: 179 IQ rocket scientists riding old ten speeds all over the streets of palo alto not giving any fucks
>suddenly, dot com bubbles 1 and 2
>literally the tohoku tsunami of money
>typical day in 2005: loudmouth 25 year old tech jerkoffs with their IPO money want to show they fit in but still want to spend more just in case expensive = good
>Rivendell comes to save the day
This is basically how this happened, right? This is not a question, I grew up in Palo Alto and saw it happen myself.
Also, retrogrouch hate thread
Oddly enough the retrogrouch fad is one fad that doesn't bother me at all. Simple, classy looking bikes are always good, if some people want to blow huge sums of money on simple, classy looking bikes I don't see the problem.
>hating on sensible steel bikes
>>898299
>$2000 mixte with tiagra and tektro everywhere
>not putting disks on it
>lugs and extra tubes everywhere, causing the weld quality to fall under suspicion
>using the excuse that it's a "practical bike" so it doesn't need stuff that actually works
You deserve to get fleeced
Also I like the part where they label the pedals and the wheels. Just to make sure their average customers know what the parts are called.
>>898299
too contrived for my taste desu
>>898299
>sensible
>$3000 for a frameset that does the same thing as a ots
>>898322
Nigga nobody's gonna buy a full custom RBW frameset to use as a "sensible" bicycle, they buy it because they fucking feel like it
>>898247
Mountain view fag reporting in
Comin to you live from castro street starbucks
>>898322
the bike in the OP is around $1700
>>898433
by "1700" you do mean "2300" right?
and by "the bike" you do mean "the frameset" right?
>>898438
Could buy a 15lb Canyon for the price of a Rivendell.
>>898438
nah the Sam frameset is $1300 and you should be able to do the rest for $400-ish unless you want to pay the admittedly insane price for one of RBW's "build kits"
whether or not you think the frameset is worth that much is up to you. the double top tube on the 58cm+ Sam is nice if you're a big bastard or if you're going to put a lot of shit on the bike.
>>898247
>everyone in Silicon Valley rides $9000 Trek and Specialized road bikes
>OP needs to hate on someone who dropped $3k on something that will last
I wouldnt mind the excess spending on bikes in SV if people at least bought brands other than Trek and Specialized
>>898450
Ehh, maybe in San Jose. In Mountain View you see plenty of Felt, Cannondale, Bianchi, etc. Not that those are any less mainstream.
>>898247
this thread is interesting to me because I've been slowly building up a nice old steel bike I found on craigs into something very much like the OP pic. she's maybe half stock, half custom at this point. the only "big ticket" obnoxiously-priced part was the Surly Nice front rack, which cost 2/3 what I paid for the bike.
I appreciate the socioeconomic insight into Rivendell. when you explain it like that, it makes perfect sense. I really love this kind of bike but could never figure out who was willing to pay that much. I thought Velo Orange was ritzy until I saw the Rivendell site. jeez louise.
no current pic (I'm a mincing faggot who wants the build to be finished and perfect before I take more pics) but this is my bike before I started transforming it into a retrogrouch city daily driver thing.
I will never buy a Rivendell because Grant's attitude is so boorish and snobbish and off putting. And Grant adherents say other bike companies are pretentious because they actually try to make a bike better, where as Grant calls you an idiot if you do that, and tries to sell you the same thing as he did 50 years ago, but costing 10 times as much. If I wanted an old ten speed, I'd buy an onld ten speed, not a Rivendell.
>>898450
>he sees a carbon bike
>it must be $9000
>>898494
>the bike says specialized on it
>not s-works
>it must be $9000
>>898494
The modern equivalent of that OTS, if it's a quality bike, is as expensive as a Riv, if not more. For instance, my Miyata 615 was around $450 new in 1988, which is over $900 today. But, if you want to get a similar 100% Japanese-made bike from Miyata today, it would cost upwards of $4K (http://www.miyatabike.com/project/sport/bike_sportif_pro.html).
That's why Surly and Soma and VO (the last two of which probably wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Rivendell) get everything made in Taiwan. It allows them to cut down on cost significantly. But even so, you're going to be spending around $1.2K by the time you're done building the bike up. It's going to be better than that OTS because of the modern components. Modern shifters (including barcons and DT), brakes, wheels, and even parts like seatposts are better than they were in the 80s and 90s, nevermind the 60s. One of my other bikes is a Toyo-made Rivendell Romulus, and it is a nicer ride than the old Miyata because of all of the modern refinements. And it's not even that new, it's 12 years old now. The retrogrouch companies are trying to make bikes better. Their definition of better simply differs from yours.
>>898529
Except Rivendell uses the most retrogrouchy shit they can find, not modern components, and you can put modern components on an OTS frame.
Literally retard tier argument.
No, they're not trying to make bikes better, they're trying to make bikes that closer fit their ideal.
> But, if you want to get a similar 100% Japanese-made
That's stupid because labor was underpriced in Japan during the bike boom, just like it is in China right now. Japan doesn't even have that much bike industry anymore, so it's stupid to think they could operate the same way they used to.
No, that Miyata is not a fair comparison, prices in Japan are higher and that's the rando model.
Here's an example of steel bikes with modern parts http://www.raleigh.jp/bikes2015
Here's the Miyata not made in Japan http://www.miyatabike.com/project/sport/bike_eiger.html
Anchor RNC3 is also made in Japan, and significantly lower priced.
>>898534
I wrote half a reply saying basically this and then a stupid client called me and I had to actually work, but you basically said what I wanted to say.
RivBikes are like museum calf "work boots" that cost $1500 and have smooth leather soles and norvegese welts. It's fine with me if you just straight up say "these look awesome fuck the haters" but what they're doing is pushing a fantasy of practicality that is completely divorced from reality.
>>898534
>Except Rivendell uses the most retrogrouchy shit they can find, not modern components, and you can put modern components on an OTS frame.
Oh, Rivendell uses Simplex rear derailers and French threaded BBs and 5sp cogsets with 126mm spacing? You can put 11sp Di2 on a Schwinn Varsity?
>Literally retard tier argument.
>>>/v/
>No, they're not trying to make bikes better, they're trying to make bikes that closer fit their ideal.
That's the same thing. To a racer, a bike that closely fits his ideal is a better bike. In that case it might be a $12,000 Madone.
>that Miyata is not a fair comparison
It shows how the price of a bike made entirely in Japan has increased. The prices of bicycles in general have increased, regardless of where they're made, and they've gone sky high if you want frames and parts made in Japan, the US, or Italy. Even Taiwan is getting more expensive. The Taiwanese-made steel fenders are getting to be as expensive as Berthoud and Honjo, except they're pre-drilled so they're a little less irritating to install.
>Anchor RNC3 is also made in Japan, and significantly lower priced.
Assembled in Japan, maybe. At that price, the frame is probably from Taiwan. Not that Taiwan is bad or anything.
>>898557
Nobody is suggesting di2 on an ots
He's saying you can put apex or bb7s on a Surly
Except those are unfashionably modern and functional for rivbike fashion, which invents ludicrous lies about fixing your tektro cantis with a hammer in the middle of the Sahara so you need the most primitive components humanly possible
As if the average buyer of those bikes can even change an inner tube let alone align brake pads
>insistent upon only the most retro of bicycles
>doesn't just buy a Flying Pigeon, a design that's been in continuous production since the interwar period
>>898557
>Oh, Rivendell uses Simplex rear derailers and French threaded BBs
So French vintage shit is the only vintage shit ever? Nice strawman. Nice. BSA standard is older than French. Shimano existed 50 years ago, and what do you know, Riv even likes Simplex Retrofriction when they can get it.
>5sp cogsets
Again, how far back are you going, and why can't you put more cogs on an old bike?
>with 126mm spacing?
It's a fucking steel bike you bend the dropouts to be whatever fucking width you want it to be.
>You can put 11sp Di2 on a Schwinn Varsity?
If you were so inclined, yes, you could.
>That's the same thing.
Not significantly better than bikes made 20-30 years ago.
>It shows how the price of a bike made entirely in Japan has increased. The prices of bicycles in general have increased, regardless of where they're made, and they've gone sky high if you want frames and parts made in Japan, the US, or Italy. Even Taiwan is getting more expensive.
Clearly you don't understand the context of cheap Japanese stuff and aren't familiar with the term japcrap.
>Assembled in Japan, maybe. At that price, the frame is probably from Taiwan. Not that Taiwan is bad or anything.
Made in Japan.
>>898568
And an almost carbon copy of an even older English Roadster.
>>898557
This Kuromorifuremu our Bridgestone bikes of the Holy Land , Saitama Ageo production , I that is of the few high -precision " MADE IN JAPAN " manufactured .
>>898563
>Except those are unfashionably modern and functional for rivbike fashion, which invents ludicrous lies about fixing your tektro cantis with a hammer in the middle of the Sahara so you need the most primitive components humanly possible
They do?
The reason people use cantis is for clearance, and many people feel that disc brakes are not necessary on road bikes, and that there's no reason to redesign frames to accommodate them. Other people disagree. The market provides for both viewpoints.
>>898569
> Riv even likes Simplex Retrofriction when they can get it.
As do Alex Singer and VO. So what? Why does this make you so angry?
>It's a fucking steel bike you bend the dropouts to be whatever fucking width you want it to be.
You can do that, and you can try to retrofit bikes to take disc brakes and suspension forks, but for the long-term reliability of the bike it's better to get a frameset that accommodates the parts you want from the outset.
>Not significantly better than bikes made 20-30 years ago.
Neither are bikes like the Madone and Venge. They're neat exercises in engineering (and marketing), but they're only marginally better than bikes from the 80s and 90s. That doesn't make me angry that they exist. Unlike you, I don't hate things that are different than what I like.
>>898570
I sit corrected.
>>898574
>As do Alex Singer and VO. So what? Why does this make you so angry?
You brought up Simplex as a bad thing, as if Simplex was the only part available for an OTS.
>You can do that, and you can try to retrofit bikes to take disc brakes and suspension forks, but for the long-term reliability of the bike it's better to get a frameset that accommodates the parts you want from the outset.
Its 2 fucking millimeters on each side. I take it you've never seen a frame be aligned after it is built.
>Neither are bikes like the Madone and Venge. They're neat exercises in engineering (and marketing), but they're only marginally better than bikes from the 80s and 90s. That doesn't make me angry that they exist. Unlike you, I don't hate things that are different than what I like.
Uh huh, sure m8. Same amount of advancement from 20-30 years ago with a Madone vs a Riv.
I bet somehow, in your mind, you think you're presenting valid, reasonable points and you are winning.
>>898576
>being this butthurt
>>898576
>You brought up Simplex as a bad thing, as if Simplex was the only part available for an OTS.
Nope, just as an example of "the most retrogrouchy shit they can find."
>Its 2 fucking millimeters on each side. I take it you've never seen a frame be aligned after it is built.
If you want to be bleeding edge modern, you'll need to go to 135mm.
>Same amount of advancement from 20-30 years ago with a Madone vs a Riv
The only way the Madone frame has advanced vs the top racers of yesteryear is a questionable amount of aero gains. It does have excellent road manners, better than early carbon. There have been a lot of cool ideas like the old Kestrels and Y-foils, but nothing that has really stuck, either because they had annoying flaws or because of the UCI, so we still have the same basic double triangle frame as we've had for around forever.
Now, MTB tech has seen an avalanche of measurable development in the past few decades. But that's because it's needed, because it makes trail riding much better. I don't see the need for that sort of advancement in touring and rando bikes, and I'm glad that there are people out there who are skeptical about every "advance" that the bike industry trumpets.
>I bet somehow, in your mind, you think you're presenting valid, reasonable points and you are winning.
What is there to win?
>>898590
>If you want to be bleeding edge modern, you'll need to go to 135mm.
That's only for MTB and dick brakes moran.
>Nope, just as an example of "the most retrogrouchy shit they can find."
They literally do. Simplex isn't made any more, so no, they can't find it for resale. They go out of their way to stock the retrogrouchiest components still in production.
>The only way the Madone frame has advanced vs the top racers of yesteryear
And the only way a Rivendell has changed from last yes is. Wait for it. Nothing. So at least that's infinity times more change than a Rivendell.
> It does have excellent road manners, better than early carbon.
Because the argument is fucking 20-30 years.
>so we still have the same basic double triangle frame as we've had for around forever.
Yeah, those Rivendell recumbent and Y-foils man. Oh wait.
No, I mean are you fucking serious? I only take you not as a troll because I know there actually exist people who swallow this shit up.
> I don't see the need for that sort of advancement in touring and rando bikes
Only an idiot would think that bottle dynos and incandescent light bulbs are better than batteries or a modern dynohub and LEDs. You can take your shitty imploding aluminum fenders too, and shit too.
>but that doesn't count
Are you fucking kidding me.
>>898590
How is French threading any more retrogrouchy than BSA?
>>898593
nicky pls.
>>898614
>nicky defending modern technology
I think you're confused
>>898616
it was more the general tone desu
>>898636
>not even a single angry white nerd
>>898639
was still pretty fucking annoying tho
>>898640
Are you that mad that your opinion is shit?
posting retrogrouch porn in an anti-retrogrouch thread
>>898656
>turkey levers
>>898659
:^)
>>898593
>That's only for MTB and dick brakes moran.
Non-DH MTBs are all 142 mm or 148 mm now.
>>898656
>an actual vintage bike is morally equivalent to a rivendell
This is what retrogrouches actually believe
>>898247
Give me a Dutch bike, with a ring lock for the rear wheel.
>>898721
This ruins the thread.
Grant Petersen used to design great bikes for Bridgestone. It's a shame that now he's making these overpriced abominations instead. Look up the RB-1 and weep.
>>898772
The Rivendell Roadeo is pretty much the same thing, just more expensive because the frame is made by Waterford.
>>898776
>pretty much the same thing
>a bike that cost the equivalent of $1200 at the time is $4000 now
no, a jamis quest is "pretty much the same thing"
a roadeo is highway robbery
>>898785
That's the price you pay for Made in the USA.
Also the Quest is compact geometry. The All City Mr. Pink is closer to the RB-1, and it's about $2K built up. The RB-1 was $1,200 in 1992 bux, which is about $2K now.
>>898721
>Give me a Dutch bike, with a ring lock for the rear wheel.
eurofags online say the ring locks are lousy, they get road grit in them and jam up because of their mounting position. And they're cheap locks anyway.
if you want a practical upright bike, it should be a step-through frame--mixte or whatever.
also, about OP pic: that rear bag looks like shit,,,, it's overloaded and resting on the fender. a 'practical' bike would have integral front and rear racks, and wire baskets on them
>>898785
>HURR ROADEOS COST FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARI-DOS
Wrong, dipshit. End your worthless life.
>>898825
>the cost of the frame is the cost of the bike
You forgot to add the cost of the expensive RivBike components. $100 tektro front brake, $100 tektro rear brake, $80 for hemp twine, $22 washers, etc etc.
>>898825
You think the components are free?
>>898797
>Road grit, cheap.
Ya, they top out at 2 ART sterren, and can be prone to rattling too. But I still love mine. Security is 'decent' with a compatible chain, like two locks in one, and the convenience just can't be beat. Vastly better than the very popular gift ribbon or potato!
Why did I have to import mine?
I've only ever ridden steel framed bicycles. My newest bicycle has downtube shifters.
I never saw it as a fashionable thing, although I like the designs of them I just see it as a practical thing considering that you can get steel framed bicycles for dirt cheap if you live in a big city they're always dirt cheap. I've ridden a friends carbon dura-ace and while they are awesome to ride the cost scares me away and takes away from the fun I have being able to ride a bike and not worry too much about theft.
So why are these bicycles priced the way that they are? http://www.rivbike.com/category-s/788.htm
If I was in the market for a bicycle like this I would probably try to pick up an old frame that was made by cannondale, giant, bianchi, colnago or even less reputable brands like europa, nikishiki. To me it even seems like there are equivalent bicycles being offered for cheaper by Linus, Surly and others. I'm very confused by what these bicycles are supposed to do.
I mean, when you look at this: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo.htm what do you see? I see a steel bicycle with a quill stem, drop bars with hoods, schwalbe marathon tyres and brooks seat.
Honestly I'd prefer a surly or a kona.
>>898853
Yeah I don't worry about it much when my A Homer Hilsen "Country Bike" gets stolen. I just pull another $10,000 bill out of my unicorn leather wallet and buy another. They can keep the change.
>>898859
>all steel-framed bicycles ever made are new A. Homer Hilsens
>>898857
>So why are these bicycles priced the way that they are?
They're well-made framesets with nifty investment cast lugs, nice paint jobs, and other nifty details. Some have an upcharge because they're made in the US instead of Taiwan.
>I'm very confused by what these bicycles are supposed to do.
You're supposed to get on them and ride.
>I see a steel bicycle with a quill stem, drop bars with hoods, schwalbe marathon tyres and brooks seat.
I see pic related. You might want to get your eyes checked.
Do you also wonder why people buy nicer clothes than whatever's cheapest on the clearance rack at Walmart?
>>898887
I'm not the one talking with you about those bikes, but I can't take that picture seriously. I hope no one had to paid to have a stock photo of a bike when the photographer uses disembodied hands to hold it up and didn't even bother switching to the big chainring.
>>898890
>Autism
>>898890
I'm quite sure that they did that to be in line with the contrarian Grant-against-the-bike-industry brand image that Rivendell has.
>>898887
>Do you also wonder why people buy nicer clothes than whatever's cheapest on the clearance rack at Walmart?
So this is a bike for someone who doesn't like to ride, doesn't want to take riding seriously, thinks bikes are for poor people, but suddenly got immersed in a culture where bikes aren't for poor people, and needs reassurance that he's definitely not poor, despite having to be seen in public with a bike to fit in?
Thank you for confirming that.
>>898909
>used to be a player
Still is mate, he's why a growing part of the industry is dedicated to steel is reeeeeeeel and why we're having this shitty thread.
>>898906
Hey man if you want to ride on a $50 BSO in a potato sack that chafes your balls because you're a man of the people or whatever, that's cool too.
>>898913
Yes, you have already said you firmly believe bikes are for poor people. Thank you for giving me permission to be poor (aka ride a bike), but I'm fine with the one I already have.
>>898574
>we're going to sell a $2500 bespoke frameset because bespoke lugs and badges are really necessary
>but no one needs brakes that actually stop you in the rain because we concentrate on stuff that makes the bike good, like badges and cork wrap, and these bikes will never see a drop of rain anyway
>>898857
>If I was in the market for a bicycle like this I would probably try to pick up an old frame that was made by cannondale, giant, bianchi, coln
you likely have time, energy, and enthusiasm for that - if you're well off and busy you may not have time to spend trawling through all the shit on your local CL though, might just want something that works, has the options you want, is the right color and size etc - getting a riv bike is pretty much the perfect solution if you're well heeled and looking for a specific type of bike. if you're looking for some decal laden carbon shitter you can likely spend a couple of grand and up at your lbs so it's really not such a massive thing to get your head around.
likewise ride steel, own a fuji touring and a volpe, but if i was given 4k to spend on a bike and wasn't so fucked with debt i'd consider getting something made to spec - why not ?
>>898916
>mfw I ride my rivendell in freezing rain on decomposing leaves and my rim brakes somehow magically stop me even though the disk brake jihad says I'll die horribly and go to hell
>>898887
Actually I was referring to this picture
>Do you also wonder why people buy nicer clothes than whatever's cheapest on the clearance rack at Walmart?
Except the difference in the quality isn't as pronounced as the analogy that you used.
>>898918
My main issue with these bicycles is that for the type of riding that I'd like to do on them it's probably more easily accomplished by something cheaper. For instance, on my commuter and main driver I don't use a brooks saddle because I've had a brooks saddle stolen. I feel like if someone saw the rivindell bike and new what it was they'd try to nick it because of the price associated with it.
I'm on the fence about whether or not for the price they're as good as if you spent it on something else like this: https://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/touring-bikes/allegro/vic/st-kilda/allegro-t1/102517051
I do agree with you that the chromed forks, brooks seat, colour pallet and brazings all look awesome though. I'm a downtube shifter guy myself but they make brifters look pretty awesome too.
>>898920
>I rode my rivendell between two adjacent buildings on the facebook campus during a brief drizzle so I'm totally fred birchmore now
>>898924
>The American Felling Axe
>only $162
>>898925
yes, i bet you can get a nice chinese one from walmart for considerably less.
>>898929
But it wouldn't look as impressive hanging from the wall of my loft in bed stuy
>>898921
With clothes the difference is mainly in aesthetics, and you get massively diminishing returns as price goes up. Yet people still buy ridiculously expensive clothes. Same goes for bikes. That's what I was getting at.
>>898922
The Allegro will be fine, although for a touring bike I'd rather have a triple front and closer-spaced rear than the compact crank with 11-32 10sp, for a smaller low gear with smaller jumps in the rear. Not sure about that rack, either.
The biggest functional difference I can see between that and an Atlantis or even a Sam is that it looks like the Riv bikes have a longer chainstay. Can't find geometry info on the T1 so not sure.
>>898925
>not getting a Gränsfors axe
disgusting
>>898923
>he works at facebook and only spent $4K on his bike
what is he the fucking janitor lmao
>>898937
Except a Rivendell is like buying really expensive hipster Japanese selvage jeans, not like buying actual nice clothes for someone who is well dressed. The normal person with thousands of dollars buys a fred sled.
>>898937
I'm of the school of thought that for most touring you don't NEED a specifically touring bicycle. I've gone on 1000km tours with just a backpack and a saddlebag. On my steel roadie. If you can put racks/panniers on your bicycle then you can tour on it, doesn't need to be a specifically touring bike. This guy on otherchan has a giant with a trailer and loves touring.
>>898924
>A Rivendell is a hipster thing for people who buy luxury priced authentic work clothes and baby them.
Yep. Someone who knows what they're doing can build a similar-style, far better bike for cheaper out of used parts. And then you don't feel bad about RIDING the damn thing because it didn't cost so much.
A Rivendell is a fashion accessory for rich hipsters.
>>898945
I agree, I'm just particular about the gearing on my bikes. If I'm going to ride long distances over multiple days, I like having the ability to bail out to a nice low gear if I need to, like if I'm going up a shitty hill in a shitty headwind while a shitty rain is soaking my shitty head. But on my racing bike I hope to never have to need anything lower than 39x25 even on the steepest hills, because I can revert to being a lazy sack of garbage the next day.
>>898952
Yeah, proper gearing is definitely necessary. I find that when I'm touring if I can't get my cadence right I'm FUCKED the next day.
>>898920
kek, and kek again @ excel
>>898933
How does one go about obtaining one of these life changing devices?
>>898950
Can you into frame building for cheaper ?
>>898797
I've never had my ring lock fail on any of my bikes. Riding them for daily commute for the last 15 years all year round. Be it -30 C or +30C with all the dirt and salt and hardly any upkeep other than oiling it up before the winter.
>>898950
>A Rivendell is a fashion accessory for rich hipsters.
Not hipsters. Rivs are high end comfort bikes for rich aging baby boomers.
>>898247
>implying that 25yo tech firm dicks in 2005 weren't buying Terk racebieks to play Lantz on the weekends
>>899009
You can easily buy a decent frame for $100 on CL
Change out some parts, and for less than a quarter of the price of the riv, you can have a better quality bike, and one that you actually know the ins and outs of.
>>899240
>implying that all local CLs have people selling decent frames for a Benjamin
I check my local CL every week and drown in an avalanche of department store BSOs, bike-boom shitters, and rusty 40-year-old Schwinns priced at $250+ by the delusional baby boomer schmucks that think that bikes are actually collectible
>>899256
it depends on the local market conditions
I sold a miyata nine 16 a few years ago and got all kinds of angry retards emailing me that I should give it to them for basically nothing because it's old
these emails were ignored of course, and I sold it for $700
you can tell when someone knows their shit by the kinds of questions they ask in their first response. if it's HURR GIEB FREE GOT DUI it's best not to waste time talking to them
every time I see one of these (modern-made) double-top-tube bikes, I can't help but think they did it wrong.
it would have been much stronger to add the same thickness tube in the location indicated.
I forget the brands but some vintage bike frames have "truss" frames, where there is an arch as the second bar (underneath the top tube).... that is somewhat more sensible than two horizontal tubes
>>899352
What about this? Pretty much an overbuilt mixte
>>899364
>>899352
>>899240
> building up from a frame
> frame building
>>899240
Around these parts $100 will get you a ropey-ass rusty Peugeot frame, which isn't really worth building up with anything newer than really fucking old, and won't approach the quality of a good current-century steel bike with newer components.
That said, someone has pic related on sale for $425, and I'm kinda tempted to put together a n+1 for myself with it. Their stipulation is that you aren't allowed to remove any of the parts from the bike, and that you have to build it period correct, or they'll hunt you down and murder you and feed you to pigs.
>>899256
>those handlebars
What the fug?
>>899392
>stipulation is that you aren't allowed to remove any of the parts from the bike
Would not touch it for any amount of money then, those brakes are reputed to work very poorly, and it's not even an "aero" frame. Also, you'd want to hunt down the equally uncommon seatpost, brake levers, and pedals that were all part of the same group.
>>899364
>What about this? Pretty much an overbuilt mixte
not useful.
in solid engineering, triangles are stiffer than higher-order shapes.
if (in a tall upright bicycle frame) you place an extra tube from the top tube/heat tube junction, down to the bottom bracket, then you have divided the front half of the frame from a trapezoid to two triangles--and the extra stiffness is added between the head tube and bottom bracket, which receives the most stress (from hard pedaling while standing)
of course, then it wouldn't look like the "fabled steele gentlemens wheels of yester-century", , , , -but some things in the olden days sucked, and aren't worth repeating.
>>899392
a good frame, but that is ridiculously overpriced. I'm sympathetic that a shop has to charge more, but still that should be the price of a complete bike at least. I don't even think those tubes are triple butted.
if those niggers want it kept period so bad, let them source all that shit, build it, and let it hang from their rafters until they go out of business at whatever retarded price they would inflate it to.
>>899397
>>899428
That stipulation is just a joke m80s.
As for the price, welcome to Portland fucking Oregon. If that were a complete bike it would be well over $1K.
The tubes are .8/.5/.8 Tange Champion #1. I'd build it up with the correct brake levers, get a new Nitto seatpost and MKS pedals, and Brooks Swallow saddle. The brakes get Kool Stop Dura holders and pads. The annoyingly expensive part of the build would be the wheels. The impossible part of the build, and the thing that's kinda stopped me, is that the frame pump would turn into a grail.
>>899444
>.8/.5/.8 Tange Champion #1.
oh, I was laboring under the false impression that they always forged their own tubes; I thought that was the whole point with them.
pic related, mine. came completely stock, and the guy delivered it to me from out in BFE, for $185.
>>899446
Miyata's steel mill was built in the early 80s. Prior to that they used Tange. And yeah, most Miyatas aren't expensive, even around here, but the jacked up price for the Extra Record reflects rarity, and it's not too bad compared to what a lot of the shops around here would charge.
>>899449
ok, that makes more sense, then.
>>899161
This. Hipsters (and most bike people) just buy cheaper steel bikes and configure them in the rivendell style (which is totally fine).
People who actually spend $1k-$3k on a riv frame are boomers who didn't like their previous three fred sleds.
>>899862
You do realize there are rich young professional hipsters that make 100k+ salaries, and not all of them are broke and poor? They're the ones that are often assumed to have trust funds.
I have lived around various parts of the SF Bay and I've managed to see about three Riv bikes in the wild, two of which were just San Marcos Somas. I don't think they have a large enough market share to warrant this much hate.
If anything, the moneyed tech class is either boring Indians and middle aged white folk riding cookie cutter cabron bikes (usually Ultegra, Sram Force or something Di2, carbon rims and some garmin device spitting numbers at them), or young "disruptor" bro types riding a CX or gravel bike and think they've just discovered that bikes can ride off of roads.
>>899916
>I don't think they have a large enough market share to warrant this much hate.
It's not actually the bikes themselves, no one hates Waterford. It's Grant Petersen. He's a pretentious smug opinionated cunt. Jan Heine has a hard-on for Rando bikes, and will go on and on about how Rando bikes are the best thing ever. Grant has a hard-on for old ten speeds, and will go on about how old ten speeds are the best thing ever, your bike is shit, you are shit, and you should but a $3000 old ten speed from him.
>>899917
I'll give you that, it seems to me from reading their site and blog that he thinks bikes were at their peak during the late 80s and any advancement since then is unnecessary foolishness.
I've only met about two people who have drank the Rivbike kool-aid and can only function on late 80s bicycle technology. The "steel is reel" crowd is a pretty small fraction of cyclists.
Some of their bikes would probably benefit from a few performance oriented upgrades. The Hunqapillar would probably look awesome with disc brakes, but then again you could just buy a Waterford direct.
>>899923
>he thinks bikes were at their peak during the late 80s and any advancement since then is unnecessary foolishness.
That's because that's around the time he got fired from Birdgestone Bikes.
>>899927
he didn't get fired, he took his vision in a new direction
>>899928
Grant lost his job because the American Birdgestone bicycles department went under, after single handedly being destroyed by Grant Petersen, who was marketing director (and apparently had a large influence on bike design, as Rivbikes share many of the same features), forcing him, and all the other employees of Bridgestone bicycles to look for a new direction.
He refused to adapt to the changing market, and instead offered inferior designs like mustache handlebars (the story about Japanese Children is no different from what the British did with 3-speed Sports and flipping north road handlebars, except 50 years earlier). These bikes were a marketing disaster, and simply alienated consumers, and even back then his retrogrouchy approach of new technology meant consumers were even less attracted to Bridgestone looking at buying new bikes as the level of technology equipped on Bridgestones was either strange, unusual, and non-standard, or lagged behind their competitors.
Needless to say, Bridgestone did not feel the need to keep him on as a consultant in running their Japanese branch of bicycles production.
>>899932
The only "weird" Bridgestone bikes were the XO series. Everything else was modern, and bikes like the RB-1 were outstanding.
Bridgestone, Miyata, Panasonic, and every other Japanese manufacturer left the US market due to endaka (recession caused by expensive yen, which hit them hard in 1992 and doubly hard in 1995), not because someone with whom you evidently have an axe to grind thinks that albatross handlebars are neat.
>>899923
>The "steel is reel" crowd is a pretty small fraction of cyclists.
Which is why Surly, Soma, All-City, Vanilla, Six Eleven, Richard Sachs, Waterford, VO, and everyone else who makes steel bikes all declared bankruptcy yesterday.
>>899949
>The only "weird" Bridgestone bikes were the XO series.
Marketing disaster, don't try to justify them as being somehow good.
>Everything else was modern
Not so, even the BOB (Bridgestone Owner's Bunch) agrees. So does Sheldon Brown. Grant did not go with the flow in many cases, resisting change or advocating some really weird fuck-up change.
>bikes like the RB-1 were outstanding
Because they were pretty much the same as every other road bike out there, not one of Grant's fuck-up specials and were one of those Italian-style Japanese-quality road bikes, just like the other Japanese manufacturers were producing. In other words, they had nothing to do with Grant. The RB-1 is "legendary" because the Bridgestone brand was so shit, it commanded a lower price than other bikes of equivalent quality. It's one of the pinnacles of anti-snob-snobbery BOBs love.
>Bridgestone, Miyata, Panasonic, and every other Japanese manufacturer left the US market due to endaka (recession caused by expensive yen, which hit them hard in 1992 and doubly hard in 1995)
Bridgestone already had a declining market share leading up to that point and was one of the first to shut down. Keep in mind, Bridgestone still makes bicycles in Japan, they want absolutely nothing to do with Grant Petersen's designs or choices. Grant Petersen drove Bridgestone to become an increasingly niche brand.
>albatross handlebars are neat.
Albatross are not the abomination that mustache bars are. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do some research kid.
Seriously, most of this information comes from Sheldon Brown, BOBs, and Petersen himself. The only difference is I don't defend his shitty designs. They like to make him out to be some sort of misunderstood genius. He was just shit at his job. The only reason why he could make RivBikes was because he already had a weird ass niche following with BOBs.
>>899949
>Surly, Soma, All-City...VO
Just import maxways
>Vanilla, Six Eleven, Richard Sachs
Are niche makers with extremely low production output
>Waterford
The largest of these American custom shops, and their output is dwarfed by Trek's American frame manufacture, and Trek's American frames only make up ~1% of the bikes they make.
You don't seem to understand any of the things you think you know what you're talking about.
>The "steel is reel" crowd is a pretty small fraction of cyclists.
Steel is real manufactures are a fucking tiny niche.
>everyone else who makes steel bikes all declared bankruptcy yesterday.
Being tiny is not the same as bankruptcy. Rivbikes for example, is successful, because they don't make frames, they just place an order for you with Waterford while taking a commission, there's very few costs for them. They stock old shit with twice the markup of other places, and people still buy it. Most of their shit is just pure profit and relies on gullible fools.
>>899932
>>899991
Not the guy you're responding to, but do you have any kind of documentation about GP and company being dropped/fired by Bridgestone? Or that they dropped out of the US market before the Yen Shock?
I'm both curious and skeptical, would find it interesting to see whatever you can link or reference back to.
>>899997
>GP and company being dropped/fired by Bridgestone?
Bridgestone killed their American operations in 1994. Although Grant Petersen was marketing director, he was also a product designer and had a say in the way bicycles were equipped.
>Or that they dropped out of the US market before the Yen Shock?
They didn't drop out before the yen shock, but they did have declining market share despite being a good value, not because they stopped being a good value, so says the BOB.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/whatthehellisabob.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/
Read these two articles, and remove all the Grant Petersen worshiping, and you can see he was pretty much a failure except in capturing a small niche that agreed with his opinions.
>>899991
>Marketing disaster, don't try to justify them as being somehow good.
You seem to be equating low sales with bad product.
>Keep in mind, Bridgestone still makes bicycles in Japan, they want absolutely nothing to do with Grant Petersen's designs or choices.
Of course not, because like most every other Japanese company, they want to be like everyone else and not stand out. Westerners, and particularly Americans, tend to be poor fits with Japanese companies because of that.
>Albatross are not the abomination that mustache bars are. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do some research kid.
Yeah okay, Coldsteel. I thought that the XO-1 used albas while the rest used mustache bars.
>Steel is real manufactures are a fucking tiny niche.
It's large enough to be profitable for a lot of companies, and it's growing, but you talk of it as being some irrelevant tiny thing. Performance bikes are also a small niche, but there are still a large number of companies making a good amount of money and making interesting products. The majority of world bike sales are utility bikes. In the US, it's BSOs and kid's bikes. Would you prefer it if everyone in the US produced BSOs?
>Rivbikes for example, is successful, because they don't make frames, they just place an order for you with Waterford while taking a commission, there's very few costs for them.
That's the business model of most brands, except for Giant and the small framebuilders.
>They stock old shit with twice the markup of other places
Their markup isn't much more than many LBSes. Of course, they don't have the excuse of overhead, but if you would prefer buying from Amazon or Wiggle, who cares? Why get angry?
I'm really curious about why you're so angry with Grant in particular, to the point where you're being more of a smug opinionated cunt than he's ever been. It's pretty sad.
>>899932
There isn't a toilet in the world large enough to flush all this bullshit.
>>900041
>You seem to be equating low sales with bad product.
It is when you're the designer and marketing director. You failed at least one of your jobs.
>Of course not, because like most every other Japanese company, they want to be like everyone else and not stand out. Westerners, and particularly Americans, tend to be poor fits with Japanese companies because of that.
Also the fact that Grant's bikes sold poorly. Extremely poorly and got trashed in reviews.
>It's large enough
Don't try to deflect. You brought up bull shit arguments when some guy said steel is real is a small segment. This is 100% moving the goalposts.
>defending grant this much
It's obvious you believe his spiel. You have no idea what a niche market is, and companies that buy from Giant still pay for tooling and the frames up front. You must see Riv as some sort of inspirational shit or something. XO-1s do not use albas. It was the low-end XO-5 that used MTB diameter bars and they still weren't albas.
> to the point where you're being more of a smug opinionated cunt than he's ever been
It's fucking 4chan, what did you fucking expect? Why don't you suck his cock some more.
>I'm really curious about why you're so angry with Grant
Because I actually fell for his shit and all the steel is real retrogrouch crap until I realized on my own how bullshit it is unless you're the kind of person that would ride a fucking beach cruiser anyways. You piss me off because you remind me of me. He's a reactionary contrarian.
>>900068
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/whatthehellisabob.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/
And these articles are pro-Grant. But continue sucking his cock.
I feel like the bicycles are overpriced for what they are and that I'd much rather an actual vintage bicycle that has been restored - I don't neccesarily have to be the one that restores it.
>>898326
Other mountain view fag reporting in.
Where you at?
>>900241
>using the word "fag" in 2015
>>900178
>I feel like the bicycles are overpriced for what they are
Bridgestone (USA at least) couldn't afford to develop much new bicycle tech, and they couldn't get the modern parts discounts that larger companies could
so all Grant could do was sell less-than-cutting-edge stuff, and think up fanciful reasons for doing so
(--a lot of companies have this problem, when they don't actually produce anything unique--)
As for 'why would anyone pay for this shit?',,, it's people who want something that doesn't look just like most other bikes they see, and they can afford to overpay.
>>900273
You must be new here.
