ITT: All transport maps bus/rail/tram etc
Pic: London Underground map
>>881265
Why is the Overground a single colour? That's really confusing.
>>881321
Why did you ask if you already knew the answer?
>>881265
>>881338
>>881341
pls r8
>>881350
I wonder what it will look like once the GPE is completed.
>>881354
They will need a larger map.
>>881321
They are all heavy rail. It would be even more confusing to separate the different lines by colour.
Question to the German anons:
Why did Germany never fully abandon streetcars? A lot of networks seemed to have either been modernised or converted into stadbahns rather than being removed entirely like in France, Spain and the UK.
Was there a campaign to save networks across the country or were hey simply kept because they were practical?
>>881368
Germany had difficult access to oil whereas the UK, US and France have always had easy access to it.
>>881345
>>881368
Hannoverfag here
For many german cities it was the cheapest and most practical solution to turn the trams into stadtbahns.
>>881321
>Why is the Overground a single colour?
It's confusing enough as it is. And it omits most heavy rail and the tram system.
>>881368
You answered it yourself. They wanted to convert the networks gradually into heavy metro systems.
Some got pretty near to the goal, some didn't never get started and just kept inteding to over the danger years that were the 50-60s.
They also invested heavily into the tram systems at the war restoriation, which also helped.
Don't get me wrong, they closed a whole bunch of systems, including big ones like Hamburg and West Berlin. They just had so many to start with. Most of the small few line systems survived in the East Greman side.
>>881360
Overground trains are about a metre higher than the subsurface stock trains. Also, they don't do the four rail thing.
Whoop de doo.
How many incompatible heavy systems you have in the city; six? Trying to beat the rail clusterfuck world championship from Madrid?
>>881265
Sorry about the shit map, I had to edit it to remove the posponed or cancelled lines/routes. Only maps I could find filled the map with buses, or had cancelled or posponed lines that don't exist.
>>881432
The Overground forms an orbital rail network around London using the same stock and branding. The lines being different colours would only make it more confusing, in fact impossible to differentiate on a map.
>>881465
Just keep that hollow line and colour the different branches differently. They did it with TFL Rail and it looks fine. It would be better than having the current blob that makes it seem that the Overground only has one service.
>>881265
Needs MOAR LINES, MOAR DETAIL.
>>881510
Now split the overground up into different colours!11! That will make the map so much more clear and easy to understand!!!2
>>881516
First Capital Connect bro
Sure, but then you will have to divide the TOCs up into different colours for their different lines too. London Overground is 1 TOC
This should have become the official map ages ago.
>http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/subway/SubDia.pdf
>>881527
What the hell is a TOC? A fare zone?
>tfw better rail service 100 years ago than today in Northern California
>>881563
Thanks, GM.
old transport map for Milan, half of these lines don't exist anymore or they changed name.
Edinburgh here
>>881338
>>881341
Watch out, there's spiders
>>881618
How are the ventottos doing? Still going strong?
>>881629
sure, few lines but they are still there, I rode on the 23 just yesterday.
Tyne and Wear Metro
>>881614
Every time I look at that map I can't unsee the ways it could be vastly improved if the government would fund it properly and not be stupid about it.
>>881650
Could be worse; it could be Melbourne.
>>881676
Nah, Melbourne actually isn't as bad, because the biggest improvements (signalling, level crossings, frequencies) aren't on maps. Speaking of which...
>>881429
>convert the networks gradually into heavy metro systems.
Germany also has very few really big cities, only 4 over 1 million inhabitants. On the other hand there are 35 cities between 200k and 1 million and 37 between 100k and 200k.
The capacity of a full-scale subway was mostly not needed so converting into underground trams/Stadtbahn/light rail was a cheap (compared to an entirely new full subway) way to get rid of street trams in the crowded inner cities during more car-centric times while keeping the exisiting outer network.
>>881749
I would argue the topology is definitely poorer. Sydney isn't ideal as there's missing links, but Melbourne is just a slightly better Brisbane in the sense that everything branches out with the only interconnect being right in the city. The electrification also isn't nearly as extensive
Mind you, Sydney only has 1 suburban mainline level crossing (Pine road) whereas Melbourne has fucked if I know
Otemachi. Deceptively simple on paper. In practice it's a labyrinth
>>881823
The topology is poorer, but an extensive tram network covers a multitude of sins. One obvious way to fix it though would be extending the Alamein line down through East Malvern, Carnegie, Glenhuntly and Gardenvale, as well as up to Fairfield. Add slight tram line extensions in the southeast to connect up to that and extend the Footscray tram across to Fairfield as well and suddenly orbital travel is a lot better.
Brisbane I don't even know where to start.
Shibuya desu~
> 4 lines
>>881786
It was done because in the 60's and 70's there was a shitload of subsidies to build underground Stadtbahn tunnels, and nowadays many cities barely have the money to maintain them.
>>881823
Mapping out the station like that is not helpful for the ordinary traveller. They should stick to clear signage. No one is going to understand that clusterfuck drawing.
>>881432
>Trying to beat the rail clusterfuck world championship from Madrid
Bitch please, Barcelona is way more of a clusterfuck than Madrid. We have suburban trains in metre gauge, standard gauge and iberian gauge, also one subway line in old iberian gauge (couple of millimiters different than regular iberian gauge, compatible for moving rolling stock but with severe speed restrictions) and iberian loading gauge which makes its trains fuckhueg for a subway, two unconnected modern tram networks (which, however share specs and are supposed to get connected eventually), and a heritage tram in standard gauge and using trolley poles.
Take THAT for clusterfuck.
>>882068
How the hell did you guys have dictator in power for so long yet this shit didn't get addressed?
At least Stalin made sure everything in the Eastern Bloc was broad gauge.
>>881339
such many lines of Subway and Trams and the people are annoyed that they have not enough lines.
Needs to have more places, be more frequent, and have an expansion of their bus routes. As a poorfag, I would greatly benefit from this.
>>881993
Can somebody explain to me why that blue part in the east is an independent line, instead of being part of the green one?
>>882914
One is light rail (the blue) and the other is a subway line.
>>881786
>>882002
>Germany also has very few really big cities, only 4 over 1 million inhabitants. On the other hand there are 35 cities between 200k and 1 million and 37 between 100k and 200k.
Aww yis. Exactly the same happened in Helsinki as happened with places like say... Essen ja Bochum and probably some others: there's this one new fully seggregated heavy "metro" line, the opening line of a system that was supposedly be vast, but the cost and schedule overruns happened and people realize that the original plan would have been enormously expensive. The old tram network survives (was supposed to be rendered obsolete when the metro is "done"), but receives little love.
Case: the West extension of the first line was supposed to start in the 80s (before the schedule slips in the opening section weren't apparent, that is according to the original 60s visions) and we are only now constructing it. "The second line" from north to south was scheduled to about year 2000. Won't happen very soon, because we seem to be promply pulling the Greece...
Worst thing is, it's only million inhabitants in the metro area. I wonder what the 60s people were thinking. And yes, for the another Finnish foamer here: I too know about the "Castren plan".
NYC including Staten Island
>>883052
moscow checking in
>>883053
stray dogs ride your subway and it's cool.
![txu-oc-7643168-portfolio-03[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3nDpFzc.jpg "txu-oc-7643168-portfolio-03[1].jpg")
Mexican railroads during the Mexican Revolution, circa 1919.
>>883164
this one looks lonely
![Boleo-Tank[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/xoOh5J0.png "Boleo-Tank[1].png")
>>883171
Like most isolated railroads that have ever been built, it was built to serve an extractive industry, in this case copper.
>>881993
Don't worry my friend, by 2021 will have 5 lines, than by 2023 will have 4
noone has posted glorious NRW? huh.
>>883680
posting a compressed version, full res (pdf) here: http://www.vrr.de/imperia/md/content/fahrten/stadtlinienplaene/wuppertal.pdf
>>883703
pretty much none, the first one is the passenger rail map for a whole german state (Northrhine-Westphalia), the second one is the public transport map of a city in this state, Wuppertal. It's mainly bus service, some rail and the Schwebebahn.
>>883767
Thanks for the info. Aren't you guys getting some new rolling stock for that monorail in the near future?
Nearest city is Milton Keynes, ugly soulless new city inspired by the American grid system.
However it has great cycling infrastructure though barely anyone cycles.
Will post 2 maps and an aerial photograph.
>>883769
yeah, iirc the first two sets are expected for test runs next year
>>883772
>>883773
Fuck you for posting inbetween my posts ;_; delete this
>>883774
and here's the photo of the centre, big building on the left is called the snowdome/xscape, has an indoor ski slope, shops and a cinema etc
>>883776
oh shit sorry
have a bad pic of a cute squirrel
Kuala Lumpur
There will be 2 additional MRT line, another LRT line, rehabilitation of some of the abandoned commuter line and a couple more BRT line by the year 2020
>>883776
>>883774
>>883772
Looks like a Garden City crossed with American style zoning. Shame it doesn't look to be very transit-oriented.
>>883788
Has electric buses that charge via plates on the road though tbh.
But yeah you need a car or walk/cycle. It has the most roundabouts in the UK too.
Rockford, illinois' unreliable bus transit system.
>>883680
Routes I've traveled so far
pls r8 my autism
Why does America have terrible public transportation in general? Some cities have decent systems, but the majority are terrible, dirty, I feel unsafe, and they're unkempt. Plus many are funded by states DoT which are financially so far in the red that many systems are forced to cut funding, deteriorating their already poor quality. It is rare to see a public transportation system that actually makes a profit.
I see these German maps and am envious.
If we have so many poor people that depend on these, why is funding so shitty? God damnit America, get your shit together.
>>883865
Fuck off.
>>883865
>Poor people
there's america's problem. The rest of the world transport is for everyone.
>>883936
There are a few places in America where public transport is for everyone. They also happen to be the places where the public transport system is actually widespread and properly functional. (Yes, NYC, I'm looking at you.)
![LNP_HD[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/v3zVCLJ.jpg "LNP_HD[1].jpg")
dat 2-stage funicular
>>884016
>zoom out
dat triangle of service on the mambo number 5
>>883865
Because you rely far too much on cars.
JR Loop Line, putting the O in Osaka?
>>883865
>Plus many are funded by states DoT which are financially so far in the red that many systems are forced to cut funding, deteriorating their already poor quality. It is rare to see a public transportation system that actually makes a profit.
Thats because public transport are not supposed to be about profit, just like other public services like education and health. They're using taxpayers money and are expected to serve the taxpayers (unless they are done using private sectors' money, like some railway lines).
That doesn't means public transport won't pay for themselves, but it's beyond a simple profits and losses. Public transportation usually contributes on other aspect of economy such as GDP, real estate value, jobs and markets generation, HDI, etc
>>884052
Stop responding to bait you dumb motherfucker.
>>884017
I've seen the wikipedia page, but can you confirm. Is that what is shows about the OEG network's all time extent correct, that is about the same triangle with some closed industrial sidings and reroutings, or is OEG the sole remnant of once much more vast metre gauge network (with operators other than OEG, maybe)?
>>884086
The OEG only closed a line via Neckarhausen that went through the Neckar bend, the rerouting you mentioned, and a freight line from Schriesheim to Heidelberg (that was even standard gauge).
As for other meter gauge lines, around Ludwigshafen there were two lines with steam trains that however both closed their service in Ludwigshafen in the 1930s.
Heidelbergs tram had a couple of interurban lines through the Altstadt to Neckergemünd (closed 1962), from Leimen to Wiesloch (1973) and from Eppelheim to Schwetzingen (1974, pic related).
Another tram ran from Schwetzingen to Ketsch, operated indepentantly from Heidelbergs network and also closed in the 1930s.
>>883847
Sa schön dass ich grad heute wieder abgehauen bin :D Maybe I'll dump some pics here soon, lots of 420s.
>>883851
pretty good actually, but you got nothing on me. But I'm really not often in Westphalia or the Ruhr Area, so I'm missing a lot of stuff there.
bumping from page 10
>>884026
Japan is the only country in the world that does mass transit correctly.
![PE-1947[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/khsJdOx.jpg "PE-1947[1].png")
Stylised Tokyo map
>>888812
Also Switzerland.
BTFO
>>886542
Hi Oslo.
Everyone in SkyscraperCity has recently been jizzing over the 15 more kilometers of tunnel bana. (With all the oil money, everyone in Norway can affor public transit!)
What about the trikker, any real expansion ahead? If I understand, the new tracks in Rosenkrantz' gate are only temporary due track rereouting to Prinsens gate. I can read the stuff that foamers want and someone somewhere has proposed, but local political situation is all dark for me.
I skimmed through the big report that even had some words about a ring line, but I couldn't tell from your hobbittis hill Swedish, how serious it is.
>>892625
>SBB
>anywhere as good as Japanese railways
lel
>>892648
It looks less shit if you add in the S-bahn system
>>892693
Most of those lines only run in the peak direction during weekday rush hours. Pretty useless if you live in the city.
>>892711
Sure but the RER and mobility hub plans are transforming parts of the system into what's practically subway systems. If CP becomes less hostile to GO then westbound corridors could be upgraded like the eastbound corridors and allow more development.
Stockholm
>>892690
>implying it isn't
you can't expect the same level of service for a sparsely populated region. In relation to it's population density, the SBB is certainly not far behind japanese railways.
>>892714
That's cheating, it has even the pendeltog ("pedal train", how cute) in it!
I'd post my town's meager busmap to be ridiculed at if the transit authority was professional enough to provide such... They only have the pdf's of the stop timetables online.
>>892722
>pendeltog ("pedal train", how cute)
Wouldn't that be pendulum train? (as in frequently going to and from the city)
San Antonio. It's a clusterfuck but it gets the job done.
>>881265
This version sure as fuck confuses people
Rather fun to give to your tourist friends
>>882860
MARTA will never be able to expand due to the city/rural divide in Georgia that's fucking shit up in Atlanta. MARTA can barely stay alive as it is.
Oh
>>892746
I don't like it. It makes the Northern Line impossible as fuck to understand.
Who lower mainland BC here? I autistically hand-drew all the rail lines in the region in GE, shit looks tight with 3d turned on
>>894467
aaaand forgot image
>>881562
train operating company
Odessa (Ukraine) trams, mid-90s
Odessa trolleybuses, mid-90s
Neither map much use geographically. One thing the tram one conspiciously fails to make clear is that the starting point of routes 6 and 7 (at the bottom of the map) is adjacent to the terminus at the right-hand of the page of routes 2, 3, and 12; and that routes 6, 7 and 1 continue for a hell of a long way outside the city centre to an enormous peripheral high-rise housing estate (via a beach/seaside resort and a big industrial zone)
>>892746
>Circular map
>Circle line is not a circle
You had one job
>>894468
Hey there foamer anon, that actually looks pretty sweet.
As an Amerifat I would kill to see something like this for tracks / RoWs, for the sole purpose of circle jerking to potential mass transit systems.
>>893323
Hey anon, if your from Boston, can I run a question by you?
It seems like Boston has a pretty extensive mass transit system as compared to your typical american city, but it only has like... 30 percent ridership? I'm from philly, which has a much shittier regional rail / subway system, and we have like... a 40% ridership rate.
Is the MBTA like a complete shitshow of an organization? From what I understand the city is a nightmare to drive in, so why don't more people use the transit options?
>>892901
They're doin alright on their own for now. Really needs more funding though, and MARTA's looking at putting an increase in sales tax up for vote in the two main counties, and the city to fund expansions.
>>896845
I hope they go one step further and put in funding for the streetcars / Light rail. The city would be so much better off with all of it built out....
>>896847
Forgot pic....
Hopefully, the city can get it's shit together enough for people to approve it. I swear, if the dumbasses in the city-hall fuck this up even more than they already have...
>>896845
Congress just passed a 80+bln state of good repair transportation bill. I'm almost positive more than 3 quarters will go towards cager welfare but according to the APTA some of it will go towards new starts and maintaining current passenger rail infrastructure. Unless we see Bernie's "political revolution" in 2016 I don't see the state government doing anything for MARTA.
>>896870
The state government will probably keep denying funds to MARTA but MARTA will probably find more public support now that people are warming up to public transit and now that the agency has been able to stabilize its financial situation.
>>896784
>40%
What? It's remained at 26% since the last ACS, which is nearly entirely explained by poor reverse commute alternatives.
>>896886
I was going off this data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_high_transit_ridership
Which is based on the 2010 ACS (and I rounded a little desu bbq). As a reverse commuter I'm not suprised that it's dropped since then, because the options do suck. All >muh suburban office parks
and what not.
Kinda wish more companies were based in the city, it would make my life a shitload easier. Or at least I would have to drive my two ton death machine a lot less.
>>896918
The fuck is a reverse cummuter?
>>896943
>live in city
>go to work in suburban office park/industrial estate/strip mall
>>896950
Interesting term... I did not know commuting had a set direction from suburbs to city/town. it makes sense though.
>>897029
The term is relatively new; it's mostly used to address the CBD-centric nature of certain transit system.
>>896870
I know CoA is trying to use some of that to fund the Streetcar extensions. MARTA has a plan to raise $4 Bil. in bonds, which they hope to be matched by the feds to fund all the expansions they have on the table plus some.
>>897029
Hi anon, that guy from philly here. Philly itself is a really awesome city, but it has a really fucked up tax scheme. As a result most of the major buisness are built out in suburbistan in these massive sprawling office parks far as fuck from trains or transit in general.
So, if I want to make good money in chosen field, but enjoy the amenities of city life (subways, biking, not being forced to fucking drive everywhere) I have to haul my ass into suburbia.
SEPTA, our local regional transit authority, once had the opportunity to greatly expand transit to the suburbs in the early 2000s, but fucked it up royally. Like leaving 3 billion dollars of governemnt money on the table bad. This was such a colossal fuck up that it spurred institutional reform and SEPTA actually has pretty good and reliable management (from what I understand) now, though it's going to take a long ass time before they are trusted with city, state or federal money to engage in capital expansion again.
>>897095
No, SEPTA was never approved for any sort of FTA New Starts funding. The Schuylkill Valley Metro was inherently doomed for reasons beyond their control; such as lack of authority to toll 422, and ridership models alien to SEPTA's desire for S-Bahn-style electrified 2tph mainline rail. Ridership projections in the Delaware Valley for commuter rail go to shit for this reason still, coupled with mindlessly approved, regularly scheduled projects to expand competing parallel state highways; that sinkhole is where all the federal money is going. Fundamentally, this region's politicians and planners couldn't give a shit about transit until infrastrucure is just about to collapse , and no one is remotely worried about losing their office for neglecting it. It's also really shitty that this region gets passed over for federal funding: PA part of the FTA high-density state program, and we got the lowest share of ARRA funds relative to our size, but we still managed to get PTC through by the original deadline.
>>897100
*PA not a part of the FTA high-density program
>>897077
>$4bln in federal funds for MARTA
HAHAHAHAHA
NYC couldn't even muster more than 900M in support for the second ave subway. The highest new starts has ever given out to a transit expansion is less then a billion. A 4 billion grant to MARTA would probably require congressional approval and would also be subject to public opinion and scruitny in Atlanta due to the gay EIS requirements set fourth by New Starts, and of course Atlanta being a commuter city, most of the residents would bitch about it going towards freeway maintenance rather than subway expansions.
>>897095
>Having businesses in the suburbs
>Not in the city
Ok, so firstly, that is fucking retarded, and secondly, what IS in the city?
>>897120
Business and stores within walking distance.
>>897100
Hey there fellow delaware valley anon!
All good points, esp in regards to the DVRPA and it's love of building out highways while giving no shits whatsoever about transit usage.
From my understanding of the SVM, it was originally conceived as a modest build out of the existing commuter rail, which the FTA was down with. They jumped ship when SEPTA tried to turn into a seperate light rail system with a terminus outside of the philly CBD?
In any case, based on the discussion around land use, SEPTA and MARTA at the end of this thread, is there any interest in /Transit Planning General/ or a US transit planning general where we can kick these ideas around?
>>897100
SEPTA has to be the system with the most wasted potential in this country. They literally have RER-grade infrastructure (mostly electrified network, underground central link that allows high throughput, high capacity stations, etc.) yet they barely utilize said infrastructure.
I realize they're fucked with county politics and its a miracle most of the network is still in place but goddamn SEPTA under performs.
>>897165
Perhaps you should read about the story of David Gunn vs. the railroad unions...SEPTA's emergence as American transit visionaries was quashed almost entirely by entrenched labor interests. The greatest limiting factor in expanding off-peak frequencies today is due to union work rules and conductor overstaffing. The off-peak rider is also an unrecognized class in the politician's world of commuters first.
What do you think of my city?
https://www.transpole.fr/documents/plans/Plan-635592421233430000.pdf
>>897174
I've actually read a lot on Gunn's exploits and the conflicts he had to manage during his career; he really deserves something like the Order of Canada or the US equivalent for all the work he has done.
While I do agree that labour relations are big part of the problem (it's even worse in NYC from what I've read) I don't think it's fair to ignore the other factors that contribute to the problem. Firstly, overstaffing and inefficient operating procedures are problems that can be attributed to the antiquated FRA regulations on passenger operations (commuter railways have ridiculously long dwell times due, among other things, archaic regulations that impose brake tests).
Moreover, while unions can be a massive pain in the ass they're not the only people contributing to the inefficiency problem; politicians and SEPTA itself also play a part in this.
The political class just doesn't give a shit about SEPTA. After all, the agency had no state funding until recently and the suburban politicians have a nasty tendency to lower their contribution to the agency budget (perpetuating the deferred maintenance policy that has been in place for decades). It would be ridiculous to expect SEPTA to increase service to the level Vukan Vuchic proposed if the agency continues to be starved of capital.
Lastly, SEPTA just seems poorly run. It doesn't appear to be as terrible as the NY MTA (that agency needs to be audited and rebuilt from scratch) but it still seems to have problems with its priorities. Everybody was so fixated on Center City in the 70s and 80s that they let the rest of the network rot (it's incredible to think that he Broad Street line was still using single-unit rolling stock from the late 20s into the early 80s). Plus, management seems perfectly content with simply closing lines rather than making the case for rebuilding them (the tram network is the obvious victim here but the diesel commuter lines were also killed without much, if any, consideration).
>>897197
>>897174
All of this to say that while I do agree with you I do find it somewhat myopic to only focus on labour relations instead of adopting a holistic view of the situation. There's a lot of potential in Philadelphia but that potential will most likely remain untapped if we don't address the structural problems of the system and instead just pin the blame on a single factor.
>>897174
>unions
How come YOU guys have so many problems with unions, when across the pond we hardly do?
Some mr. monopoly guy getting mortally depressed that the drivers have balls to ask like 20% for overtime or something as ridiculous? Wtf, you don't even have federally enforced collective bargains, so what's the problem circulating the drivers in the retail industry manner with 10h/week contracts so they wont get any benefits?
>>897197
The thing about FRA operating regulations is that SEPTA, by virtue of geometry, has escaped the brunt of them. The Silverliner V acceleration can hold its own against any European stock, and we're not worried about turnaround procedures limiting turnover capacity at stub-end terminals (the brake test and crew change at Suburban is theoretically an easier problem to fix). The other half of inefficiencies other than work rules relates to outdated infrastructure: Silverliner IV vestibule doors, freight conflicts, excessive slow zones around Center City, low-platform stations, where operation of the trapdoors is somehow not automated and necessitates conductors anyway.
SEPTA's historical priorities in transit expansion and abandonment are not reflective of how well-run management is, it's a really bad foamer meme and there are plenty of other service metrics for that: farebox recovery is fairly average but recent capital costs and deadlines for state-of-good-repair have been stellar, probably the best program in the US today. Rather, decisions of sysem expansion and curtailment were motivated almost entirely politically: the CCCT was a pet project of the mayor and business interests, representing a long-overdue subsidy from the feds, while the governor literally ordered PennDOT to stop subsidizing diesel service after the Reagan transit cutbacks, and SEPTA sure as hell didn't have any authority to allocate funds outside of its 5 county region. Any question of deferred maintenance can rightfully be blamed on Conrail. The demise of the trolley "system" remnants was also a foregone conclusion; there was no ADA-compliant trolley available and SEPTA was dealing with Railworks, the largest crisis it faced yet.
>>897231
What I'm saying is that the current state of Regional Rail makes it substantially more scalable than peer systems assuming equally scalable operating cost subsidy.
>>897199
>>897215
Why labor efficiency is important: https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-efficiency-is-important/
>>897232
>https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-efficiency-is-important/
Oh right, you still have conductors...
Can't you just schedule the installation of ticket machines to a date when their union contracts expire and then fire everyone?
>>897231
>but recent capital costs and deadlines for state-of-good-repair have been stellar
I wasn't actually aware of that so thanks for bringing it up.
>>897232
>What I'm saying is that the current state of Regional Rail makes it substantially more scalable than peer systems assuming equally scalable operating cost subsidy.
Fair enough. I mistook your argument for a run-of-the-mill anti-union one so I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I cannot disagree with your and Levy's points on labour costs. The cost of labour on trains on most North American systems is ridiculous and needs to come down. I guess SEPTA is heading in the right direction though, the Key system and the new rolling stock (the trap doors on the new Silverliners are automated, right?) are going to eliminate the need for a conductor aboard the trains so costs will come down in the long term.
>>897238
That's what has been done on multiple systems (they're usually replaced by IC card readers or turnstiles) however US commuter railroads tend to be slow to adopt these systems (either due to the high cost of implementation or due to management being slow to adapt) so the conductor is still a thing on most of them. Conductors are also still used on certain subway systems that don't have ATO or ATC installed (NYC mainly) but they're also being phased out as CBTC is installed on those systems.
>>897176
Map is not entirely user-friendly, a bit of simplification would provide greater clarity.
I've used a bit of the network, last year, and my recollection is that information online, and at transport facilities, was mostly pretty good.
I found the metro, like other TER things, a bit underwhelming, the buses I used (outside of Lille itself, around Villeneuve d'Ascq, Roubaix (in both cases on an art gallery hunt) and Tourcoing, pretty decent and very, even unusually, user-friendly. I got the tram back from Roubaix to Lille, it was perfectly sufficient, but there were some sinister-looking characters on board!.
As for your city, I rather like Lille. I can think of post-industrial cities in England (above all, for some reason, Wolverhampton), that I think would do well to adopt a similar approach to regeneration. Also, the medieval art in the Musée des Beaux-Arts is awesome.
Picture of Warsaw's rail transport.
Looks pretty nice (apart of the poor metro line) and it is, since you can jump in a train with the same ticket you got for the bus (AFAIK only with "short term" timed tickets - day long and up - which are in the "common ticket" programme). I used to use that opportunity when riding to uni, since going via bus/tram took thrice as much time as the same trip (rather short though) on a metropolitan train.
>>883790
>Has electric buses that charge via plates on the road though desu.
Neat as long as no one gets fried.
>>892624
Could hang this on me wall.
>>896756
>>892746
It's stylized to resemble the logo.
>>894545
>>894546
Those fucking ads.
>>897362
Warsaw's public transport is excellent, considering it's mostly buses and trams. It's as reliable as most metro systems albeit a little slower and less comfortable.
>>897367
While I appreciate this, I must humbly disagree.
It is bus-based for the most part and because of the heavy traffic buses are very un-reliable. One thing is with buses on a line that has to go thru the whole city to get on time in the last 30% of the route, but you'd often get it late (or too soon as it happened to me way too many times) on the first stops. Trams are often affected by the traffic too. And the traffic is horrendous here. Warsaw is one of the most jammed cities in the EU.
To further my example, my daily commute takes me roughly about 8 km through Southern ends of the city, but I have to travel 2 blocs on one of the heavier loaded streets. The connection itself ain't all that bad, I have to switch buses, but have several options. Now, on a bike it takes me about 15 minutes to go along the same streets. On a bus it would take a bit longer (on some Sunday mornings it was 20-25 with the switch), but normally, it averages at around 45 minutes. A killer for me. That's why I am biking for as long as possible (alas it's virtually impossible to do it in late autumn and winter and it looks like I'll be switching back to bus from this Monday).
That's my route. Not very bad, since I skip most packed roads and the city centre, but it's not all perfect.
The density and availability of the service is something to be proud of, though. Not denying this.
Unless you meant exactly that which renders this post useless.
Cheers.
For next year, the tram and train map of Karlsruhe will be using this curved design by Maxwell J Roberts, who made >>892746.
>>897385
As comparison, the old map from this year.
>>897386
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The Harry Beck style is 100000000x better than that wonky garbage
>>897385
Is it more geographically accurate or something?
>>897385
>>897386
Literally the same shit. If anything, they should alternate between both. And add more decorative elements to come along with this style. Like "angular" stations vs. "noodle" stations.
Because otherwise it sounds like a way to waste money just because.
Or is it just a yearly (or whatever) shtick they're doing anyway?
>>897599
You cannot mix the two really. One appeal is that it is more geographically accurate and the other is presenting a clear, evenly spaced, visual reassuring, coherent, aesthetically pleasing map. This provides confidence for a user of the system when trying to navigate his way round it and reach the desired destination.
The wonky map shows a confusing sprawl of lines which will probably induce anxiety for an already nervous user unaware of where to go. It is not reassuring or visually pleasing, it is messy and disorganised.
>>897385
KVV wins!
details matter: in karlsruhe public transport has priority at crossings and is really fast,, while in mannheim, heidelberg, weinheim-bermuda-triangle busses and trams have to wait moreoften than not and the only priority of the rnv-company seems to be making money. that and karkstruhe has normal gauge and even overlapping service with the railways of DB (2 different voltages, same trains :-), while rnv is stuck with 1m narrow gauge and grumpy drivers.
>>897606
>bermuda triangle
kek'd
pic semi-related
>>881265
New map. Includes walking distances.
What does /n/ think of this revolutionary change? Useful or just needless clutter?
>>897393
Neither of them is. It has the problem of wanting to display both urban tram lines with stop distances of a few hundred meters and long regional lines that can also have over 5 kilometers between two stations.
So the regional lines are squeezed together anyway.
As for the urban parts, lines 4/5/S2 in the east branch off lines 1/2/S4/S5 in a 45° angle in reality, so there the new map fits better, for all other intersections the old angular lines look better t
>>881265
Sub/bus map
>>892624
Looks like the plansfor the death star
Any transit agency in America who includes BRT lines on their rail transit maps should be put up against a wall and shot.
>>897759
European and Asian agencies do it too you fucking retard.
>>897763
Give me an example. And don't post some bumfuck city in southern germany. Give me an example of a world class city that does it.
>>897807
>all American cities must aspire to be World Class
>>897807
>all small American cities must have transit infrastructure that rivals Tokyo, Paris or London
Nice comparison.
>>897813
I'm really not sure what you're on about. There are quite a lot of cities in America with populations and metro areas much larger than Europe who put shitty bus """""""""""""rapid"""""""""""""" transit lines on their map and it normally confuses visitors. American cities are the only ones who do this and it's annoying as fuck.
>>897815
>There are quite a lot of cities in America with populations and metro areas much larger than Europe who put shitty bus """""""""""""rapid"""""""""""""" transit lines on their map
Which ones?
>>897814
I'm not saying St. Louis needs an MRT as big and expansive as fucking Tokyo. I'm just saying that if you're making a map of all the rapid transit rail lines in a city you don't include bus lines, it's that fucking simple. I hate looking at a metro map of Boston or LA and finding out these lines aren't anything more than a very slightly faster bus service. It's retarded. BRT is useless and is only used by politicians unwilling to put up taxes for proper rapid transit to fill up a place on a map to say "Hey look we did it!" and get more votes.
>>897816
Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, L.A., Kansas City, Miami, Chicago, Milwaukee, Atlanta and many other smaller cities.
>>897817
>I'm not saying St. Louis needs an MRT as big and expansive as fucking Tokyo. I'm just saying that if you're making a map of all the rapid transit rail lines in a city you don't include bus lines, it's that fucking simple
You couldn't have picked a worst example. None of the maps in St Louis mix both bus and LRT together.
>>897819
I'll give you Boston and L.A. but none of those other cities have official maps that confuse both bus and rail lines.
>>897821
I really wasn't quite sure what kind of statement you were making in some of the above posts saying I was claiming every single American city is world class (even though I would argue we have the highest density of great cities than any other country on earth).
Minneapolis (didn't mean to say Milwaukee) doesn't have BRT yet but they are building it and is included on their map of future rapid transit lines in the city. Most of the cities I mentioned may not have their systems built out but all of the cities I did mention are either building or planning BRT lines. I know for a fact in Chicago once that shitshow called the Ashland BRT and Loop Link BRT go online mayor Emmanuel will proudly slap those POS's onto the El map, I would bet my ass on it.
>>897823
>(even though I would argue we have the highest density of great cities than any other country on earth
Have you ever left the continent?
>Minneapolis (didn't mean to say Milwaukee) doesn't have BRT yet but they are building it and is included on their map of future rapid transit lines in the city. Most of the cities I mentioned may not have their systems built out but all of the cities I did mention are either building or planning BRT lines. I know for a fact in Chicago once that shitshow called the Ashland BRT and Loop Link BRT go online mayor Emmanuel will proudly slap those POS's onto the El map, I would bet my ass on it.
So what? Cities are building BRT lines, that doesn't mean they're going to include them with their rail lines. BRT isn't terrible so long as it doesn't form the backbone of a rapid transit system in a large city. There are multiple massive cities in China that have large busway networks that complement their subway systems, Paris is in the process of building several lines to connect the outer areas with the RER and metro system and even Helsinki has a large BRT network.
So here's an interesting one
Baltimore back in the 1960s was planning to have a full metro system. Due to funding issues, they only funded the Northwest Line, and the South line. They were actually able to get the funding without much hassle, from both the state, and the feds. It was supposed to use cars similar to those in DC and SF, with trains running every 4 minutes during the rush, and every 10 minutes outside of it. Everything was all set to go, until Anne Arundel County chimed in. Unlike other places where people tried to say "Undesirable elements", Anne Arundel straight up said black people were the reason they didn't want the metro. Now, with Anne Arundel County blocking it (meaning no southern line, even to the airport) the line was very short, and the construction of Anne Arundel's part was supposed to be very cheap. So the cost actually hadn't gone down more than $10 or $20 million, despite the system being halved.
The bill to fund it ended up being passed by two votes, on the last day of the legislature.
>>897896
This is Baltimore's system today. As you can tell from the map above, there's heavy geographical distortion.
As you can see, they did, ironically enough, end up building a line down there in the end, (although not until the 90s) and having used it before, I can say, the line itself is all right, despite being light rail. It's entirely grade separated, trains are pretty long and didn't seem to be crowded, but the frequency is pretty garbage, and on sunday it only runs from 10AM-6PM, which granted, was my own fault for assuming it'd run at least until 9 or so, but when you're trying to get to the airport at a flight at 8:30, it really messes you up. (Apparently, when the light rail isn't running, there's a bus that goes to the airport from downtown, but I found that out only after I paid 30 bucks for a cab)
Also, just as a clarification, the MARC trains are commuter rail. The Camden Line only runs in the peak direction, but the Penn Line runs every hour or so off peak and on the weekends.
>>897898
This is the current proposed system map for Baltimore. It's supposed to put something like 70% of the population within a (1/2 mile?) of train service. In this, the MARC lines are actually supposed to be used for short distance high frequency services.
The Red Line, which was considered priority number one was recently halted by the new governor, despite the rich regions of Maryland (DC suburbs) actually being in support of it, despite them not being served by it. He's the first governor to go against it, since 2002, when the plan was created, so it's definitely possible that it'll get picked up in the future, but some $1.5B allotted for it was already spent, and they definitely won't get the feds to put as much into it as they were going to.
London's Crossrail 2 intends to connect the Southwest with Central London and the Northeast.
>>897901
Now is the time to go to the feds to beg. New transit bill promises tens of billions to new starts so get in on that shiieeeet
>>897896
This map still makes me mad. Bunch of NIMBY assholes are the reason we can't have nice things in this state
>>899242
Baltimore is a shithole now, are there any NIMBYS even left?
Phoenix lightrail
Post some fantasy maps of light rail for your city if you don't really have public transport or it's complete shit
Here is a shitty map I did of paint of a possible light rail/commuter rail system for Kansas City that is relatively feasible. Essentially extend the Main St streetcar down to the crown plaza at 47th st. Have another streetcar that runs along 47th/Emmanual Cleaver blvd terminating at Arrowhead/ Kauffmen, than 2 more which run along side I-70 and highway 71 terminating at Arrowhead/kauffmen and West KC, the other at Blenheim Square/KC Zoo. The line in yellow could be a commuter rail line between OP and Independence with the downtown station at Union Station.
>>899435
meant to say country club plaza, not crown plaza
Can't find the one with roads and bus routes on it, but oh well.
>>899435
Been meaning to make one of these for my city for awhile now. I googled it though, and lots of people already did my ideas.
Here's one I found which has a lot of things I would have put in anyway...
>>899435
>>902243
I think yours is more believable. There's a ton of stuff in the second map that would never happen IRL.
Check out my science fiction map
>>899097
That's the old version.
Here's the new proposal (aka Tooting get fucked edition).
>>897676
Needless clutter, especially if it's only counting within lines not cross line connections.
![rail-network-map[1].jpgr.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ARgTHNd.jpg "rail-network-map[1].jpgr.jpg")
Possibly the shittiest map ever.
>>902279
The google maps background is quite old. There's been a lot of development at the north end of the green line. Although I disagree with that line covering the NE like that. Orange loop is strange but exists in real lines so idk. Purple is surprisingly a real line already (including the north portion that has "no" development), as for blue, something quite similar is planned already. The north has seen massive development since whenver this map image was taken. I think the blue is headed up to a suburb about 15km outside city limits
So most of the design decisions make sense I guess.
>>902802
That is actually pretty shitty.
>>902916
Just the 2 mile main st streetcar
![CFN+2020+July+20th-01[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UfGedyF.jpg "CFN+2020+July+20th-01[1].jpg")
>>902802
Bring on the CRL! And fucking rail to the airport and light rail down Mt Eden, Dominion & Sandringham Roads.
>>902916
My map is Calgary not KC.
>>903124
> Onehunga line
Can you get to your destination without looking on the map.
>>903842
What do you mean?
lisbon metro
Santiago of Spicland.
Segmented lines are under construction.
One last station was added to the Line 6 project after 'Cerrillos'.
It's shit.
>>906335
Full map since that one was cropped for some retarded reason.
>>905756
Only decent railroad in the whole country T B H
>>892746
>Lancaster Gate to Paddington makes more sense now
I approve
Singapore's been on a line building spree as of late. All the dashed sections are still incomplete but will be done in the next 10 years. Stage 2 of the blue line (from the 11 to Bugis) will open in about two weeks.
Though it seems with this madness they've neglected to maintain the existing lines. Service outages have gotten a lot more common. Every few days at least a substantial section of one line will break. It's only been a thing these past five years.
Ah well.
>>906517
Sure, but now the Northern makes even less sense.
