How is it that they can make cages so that you can only replace the oil every 10,000 miles, but stuff like chainrings and cassettes only last a few thousand miles each?
Full chain guard with oil bath
>>934838
>chainrings and cassettes only last a few thousand miles each
That would be because you're not taking proper care of your bike.
It would also be because you're letting your chain wear/stretch too much before replacing it -- assuming you're replacing it at all. Wouldn't at all be surprised if you don't clean and lube your chain when you should either, or the rest of the drivetrain for that matter, which also accelerates wear.
A chain is cheap compared to chainrings and cassettes, not to mention the amount of time it takes to replace them. A worn, stretched-out chain will literally ruin chainrings and cogs. Decent solvent and chain lube is cheaper than a new chain plus all the above.
I only let a chain go for a maximum of 2000 miles before replacing it, and they're never stretched a significant amount when I do. $35 for a chain beats the hell out of the cost of adding chainrings, a cassette, and shipping charges.
Compare a bicycle chainring to a motorcycle sprocket. They are about 1mm compared to 4.5mm. More surface area where the chain contacts the drive, less force exerted thus slowing wear. You honestly can't figure this out yourself?
>doesn't know the difference between engine lubrication and unsealed external transmissions
>follows a dumb as fuck oil change interval rule designed to make you replace your car sooner because the engine sludges and shits the bed at 100K
>never cleans his bike and components
>mfw most people are this retarded
>>934885
>cleaning your chain all the time
fix your life, goyim. the more you clean, the more you lube, the more grinding paste gets formed, the more you lose
just leave it be, it's designed to take care of itself
>>934904
Fuck off.
>>934838
Start buying heavy steel chainrings and cassettes, because aluminum is too soft for a steel chain and sand. Also profit, because a fat fred wants to save a few grams. Also use bigger rings front and back.
>>935008
Aluminum is fine for chainrings. Steel only helps when you get down to big-cog sizes, like 34 and under. And even then it really depends on the quality of the chainrings. A heat treated 7075 chainring can last longer than a thin stamped painted mild-seel chainring. Consider that for midrange cassettes and above, they are high quality heat treated and plated steel. Steel rings tend to have worse shifting aids as well, so you really should only buy the smallest ring in steel.
OP, cars are not designed to be lightweight. hence the durability discrepancies between bikes and cars. it's ok for a car mfg to build a complex/heavy solution for a car because of the relative power of the engine
>>934888
nice bait
Well, there are alternatives to chainrings. You've got belt drives which you only need to replace if it manages to snap, and you've got shaft drives which I have no idea how long those will take to wear out.
There are also IGHs which I have no idea how quickly those wear out, but in theory that one with the continously variable transmission has to be nearly indestructable since there are very few moving parts in those.
>>934838
>why is this 3,000lb machine built to go 100+mph with a few degrees of ankle rotation more durable than my 14lb bicycle that cost twice as much
gee I don't know, cant be because of how much more engineering and money goes into car engines
>>936524
>Steel chainrings on 70s bikes, as well as fat single-speed chains, literally never die.
This is not true at all. The thing with single speed is they last bar longer than multi speed because they don't rely on a spring tensioner and can't skip. As long as you adjust tension, you can run extremely worn single speed parts. The reason why cheap 70's bikes don't have worn rings is because most likely people never put any significant mileage on them. Serious riders did not buy shitty cottered crank steel chainring pieces of shit. The ones that were used as beater commuters with serious wear on them have most likely been thrown away by now.
>>936527
Also, keep in mind, profiled teeth make rings wear down faster, because they're basically pre-worn and parts of the teeth are thinner. Still, you can get 50,000+ miles on aluminum chainrings if you replace your chain frequently.
Because "muh grams" marketing. Buy steel sprockets and chainrings like Surly makes and forget about it.
>>936555
>Buy steel sprockets
No one is forcing you to buy Red/Record/DA cassettes
>chainrings
Chainrings already last a long time. In fact, they last long enough that having them be rust resistant is probably more important than them being hard wearing, especially since most bikes don't even go through a single set of chainrings unless ridden with very worn chains.
Oil company conspiracy: they want your bike to wear out so you will get a cage and buy more oil!
>>934838
Allow me to present my counterpoint, anon. The problem is that in 'murica, cars are optimised for general purpose transport but bicycles, motorcycles, etc are optimised for hobby racing shit. It shows.
>>937004
This. But this board is obsessed with *muh grams* and *muh efficiency*. OP, if you want a drivetrain you don't have to think about you have to go SP / premium IGH + closed chainguard.
Bikes have to be lighweight, so the derailleur is the best option to go light but the trade-off is that you have a drivetrain that is unprotected and wears very fast.
>>934913
He'r right you know. Oiling your chain washes out the lubrication of the manufacturer and washes the dirt right where it causes most damage. If you look at a new chain the lube is never, ever thin and oily but sticky and greasy, because it has to work under high pressure.
>>937011
>OP, if you want a drivetrain you don't have to think about you have to go SP / premium IGH + closed chainguard.
Old 1/8" chain derailleurs are also pretty durable.
(Technically it's 3/32, but the cog spacing is made for chain as wide as modern 1/8. They used to make them sturdy.)
>If you look at a new chain the lube is never, ever thin
That lubricant you get out from the bag is meant for storage.
Chain oil is not terribly sensitive matter, though. Anything from 2-6 cst does just fine. I just want to punch people in the face who squirt the thin spray oil into their hubs or bottom brackets; those parts are vaselin lubricated and the thin oil will dilute it away.
>>937011
So i should never clean my chains?
>>937004
So the solution is to hide the problem so you can never see your worn teeth?
Someone give the Dutch a Nobel prize for engineering
>>937039
Relax, as long as your chain and teet wear out in unison, they will fit together snuggly.
Seriously, I once got a hub with teet worn out into this sickle shape, tried it with different chain and the thing just went clak-clak-ckak making the ill sound of a link first being supported by the top of the tooth and then dropping into the valley.
I don't always replace my sprockets but when things get that bad - I do.
>>937039
This,most chain we have to replace never touched a drop of oil after it was mounted.
>>937039
Heavy duty parts + protection from the elements = minimal maintenance and minimal wear. Hub gears and a chaincase make a hell of a difference compared to a fully exposed derailleur drivetrain where you have to stretch and twist a thin chain to even change gears. The only thing the dutch bicycle is missing is a belt drive, which lasts even longer.
>>937039
Wear is significantly less, because like cager parts, it's mostly enclosed. Also single speed parts really don't care how worn they are as long as you tension them.
>>934838
>entire bike drive train is open to the elements
>car's is sealed in metal housings and immersed in lubricant at all times
>If you took the oil out and ran it the car's would fail in less than 50 miles
GEE I WONDER
>>937180
To be fair, it doesn't apply to car drive train, spacially the ball joints and wheel bearings.
I hear some all terrain vehicles still have grease nipples on every moving joint and bearing but in pleb cars it's all rubber seals and the grease that came with it.
>>937183
>To be fair, it doesn't apply to car drive train, spacially the ball joints
A ball joint will get fucked up fairly quickly if the boot is removed.
>wheel bearings
Wheel bearings are literally sealed and the moving parts, the actually balls bearing the load, are immersed in lubricant all the time, which is why they last a long time, just like bicycle cartridge bearings.
So technically they're not metal housings. But they keep lubricant in, and contaminants out.
>>937020
> That lubricant you get out from the bag is meant for storage.
Still, no oily chain from the manufacturer.
>>937021
Just don't oil it because you feel you have to. Wait for it make squeaky sounds. Then the lube has worn away and metal grinds on metal. Then you can a) ride the chain and cogs to death or b) put a tiny drop of oil on each chain link, measure it every now and then and change it early enough.
>>937188
>put a tiny drop of oil on each chain link, measure it every now and then and change it early enough.
Seems terribly lot of work, what if I just rinse it first in turpentine and then in oil?
>>937039
The Dutch are a nation of bike riders, so don't be so arrogant. Their bikes are for daily errands and not long distance trips. Many leave the bikes outside in every weather and they have lots of rain. Dutch bikes are simple, rugged machines that have to be reliable. And they are.
Btw: Enclosing a chain that otherwise would be subject to water, mud, salt etc. is basically the first thing any engineer would do, so please educate yourself.
>>937192
Yeah doing something that solves a short-term problem by making the long-term problem worse is indeed something an engineer would do.
Good thing we have industrial designers to correct idiots like you.
>>937004
>hobby racing shit.
You must be fat and slow. Why don't you get the fork out of your mouth, and why don't you actually pedal your bike regularly instead of bolting an engine to it? Maybe you wouldn't be fat and slow after a while.
>>937180
>I want all bikes to weigh 100 pounds, but it's OK they'll never wear out!
The idiocy on /n/ just astounds me. Are any of you older than 15 years old? Or do you all just have an IQ below 75?
>>937188
>Wait for it make squeaky sounds
Oh look another idiot child who has no idea how anything actually works. If you wait until it's grinding then it is TOO LATE and you fucked it up. That's why nothing ever lasts for you idiots, you have NO idea how to take care of anything mechanical. None of you deserve decent bikes, sell them to someone who knows how to take care of them properly then get your mommies to drive you where you need to go.
>>937310
Piet pelle op zn gazelle
>>934838
Dutch bicycles are great, but you know what's probably the current ultimate in low maintenance bicycle drivetrains? A pinion gearbox with a belt drive. Just think, all you have to do is replace the oil every 10000km and the belt every 25000-30000km and otherwise give no fucks about it. Maybe add a belt cover if using it on dirt tracks all the time if you don't want to have to bother to wash it. It's fairly new, expensive, heavy and used mainly on mountain bikes though.
>haven't been on /n/ in a while
>wonder why
>read this thread
oh yeah, this is why
>>937192
Dutch bikes are the bike equivalent of a cheap, base model commuter car. They have nothing fancy under the hood, but have enough power to get you from A to B. Not much to go wrong on them and they are made to last for years with minimal maintenance
Modern road bicycles are the equivalent of a Ferrari. Sleek, fast, but not all that reliable. Tolerances on the engine are tighter, the compression ratio is higher, and exotic materials are used throughout the car. They require frequent expensive maintenance if driven often. Reliability is not a word people think of when they hear Ferrari. They are often reserved for weekend rides because they are expensive to operate.
In the grand scheme bikes, even at the higher ends, are cheap, parts are cheap, and they are easy to work on. I can't afford to drive a Ferrari every day, but I can afford a nice road bike, chain lube, and the occasional chain.
>>937557
not really sure your point, anon. Is it that there's no middle ground between a dutch BSO that can barely match normal human running speed, and a Di2 equipped carbon fiber race bike with 16 spoke wheels that go out of true when you look at them funny? or are you talking about a normal commuter-tier bike? because I think it's a little insane to compare a $1500 commuter bike with a ferrari.
>>937566
>because I think it's a little insane to compare a $1500 commuter bike with a ferrari.
A $1500 commuter has more in common with high end road bikes than a dutch commuter.
>>937585
because it has gears?
you could say the same about a $500 flatbar hybrid
>>937310
>upset
No, I just think most of you are rediculous little cunts and want to be sure you know that.
>bike parts wearing out quickly
I have Shimano 105 and Ultegra parts on both of my bikes, and they don't wear out quickly because I actually maintain everything properly (keep things clean that need to be clean, keep things lubed that need to be lubed, keep everything adjusted properly, etc) instead of being dumb little children like most of /n/ and let everything go until it's filthy and broken. Go right ahead and keep being dumb, though, you'll help keep costs down for everyone else by supporting the companies making bike parts that you keep having to replace out of neglect.
>>937180
At what point did I say I wanted bikes to be heavier? I am simply saying that maybe, just maybe, parts exposed to the elements wear out faster than ones that are running in an ideal environment
>>937730
Fuck off SI autist. When people talk about a bike having gears they mean more than one up front and one in the back.
>>937734
Do you really not know what internal gear hubs are, or am I being "trolled"?
>>937735
>implying the dutch would waste money on a rolhoff for a bike that gets abandoned in front of the marijuana store and re-stolen every 3 hours
did you get confused about what this discussion was about?
>>937737
>all internal gear hubs are rohloffs
Ah, I *am* being trolled. You can stop pretending to be retarded now anon. I'm on to you.
>>934893
found the chrysler owner
>>936582
autism speaks. and posts, too.
>>937656
Don't you have to go and lube your chain?
