Safe Venues
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Are the punk venues in your guy's area actually punk? Do you and your friends call problematic people out? Are you inclusive?
http://noisey.vice.com/en_ca/blog/a-guide-for-making-your-venue-inclusive
>>66378998
Sorry I should clarify, its an article my friend wrote. I dont come here alot but check it out it takes on some very important issues in today's cis-male dominated music scenes.
>go see grouper at some hidden venue in Portland
>big sign on the way in
>NO RACISM NO HOMOPHOBIA NO HATRED OF ANY KIND OR YOU WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE
>>66379141
It was in Portland m8 what did you expect?
>>66379110
>my friend wrote
>name is the same as the article
Vice what are you doing here?
>>66379141
>hidden venue
wut
>>66379192
It was like in the basement of a rite aid. Was tough to find.
>>66378998
Don't go to a punk show if you don't want to deal with a punk crowd, simple as that
>>66378998
>>66379110
music is dominated by cis males because we don't spend all our time figuring out how to have the maximum amount of orgasms and minimal amount of shame...
>>66379141
>waaaaah, I can't call people niggers or faggots at a punk show
Why do you fucking neckbeards care so much? Just don't be an asshole. It's not difficult.
>>66379192
anon is a retard and does not know what diy music scene is
>>66379277
Ever been asked to leave somewhere for no fucking reason other than people saying they don't like you? No? Then shut the fuck up. Portland yuppies are the fucking worst and have such a sense of superiority that they will boot you just for breathing at them if they think you're ugly or something.
>girl wants to crowdsurf at a show because not allowing her to for fear of her getting groped is problematic and indicative of the underlying rape culture plaguing society
>allow girl to crowdsurf in whatever clothing she wears, no matter how revealing or skimpy because enforcing a dress code to prevent her getting groped is problematic and indicative of the underlying rape culture plaguing society
>cis white male hand touches her bare thigh as soon as she's up in the air because she's wearing incredibly short shorts because not allowing her to wear them for fear of her getting groped while crowdsurfing is problematic and indicative of the underlying rape culture plaguing society
>girl complains that she was groped and that the crowd is problematic and indicative of the underlying cis white male rape culture plaguing society
Like there's legitimate times where fucked up shit happens in the crowd, but the majority of stuff I've seen about "rape culture at concerts" is rarely more than this
When people look for every reason to be upset you can't win
>>66379333
>Ever been asked to leave somewhere for no fucking reason other than people saying they don't like you?
Have you, friend? I'd love to hear all the stories of you being banned from places for "breathing"
>>66379421
Got asked to leave a place once because I was told I have a punchable face
Got asked to leave another party because I apparently made the owner of the house uncomfortable just with my presence when all I was doing was chatting with my friends (who tried to defend me but also got kicked out for doing so) and drinking some beers.
So yes
>>66379421
>>66379489
Oh yeah also got removed from a party once for having long hair. They told me on the way out "no hippies allowed" even though I'm definitely not one.
>>66379489
>>66379535
And these were feminists, huh, who were upset that you had long hair and a "punchable" face? That makes a whole lot of sense.
>>66379489
>>66379535
If these happened then pic related definitely happened as well
>>66379717
> No groupie of SJWs have abused their power to falsely incriminate and ban people they don't like!
t. feminist cuckboi
>>66379787
>there's an epidemic of white dudes being randomly banned for breathing at events that ban racism, as evidenced by my vague anecdote that I won't elaborate on
>>66379489
ITT: things that happened.
>>66379277
As if the average person into Grouper is sexist, homophobic and racist. Not to mention that I'm sure 99% of the audience was white people with middle-class attitudes, as it's always the case in that kind of show.
When I see shit like that, I feel I'm already oppressing everybody by being there since I'm a straight white guy, and need to make sure I don't trigger anybody by asking someone "Excuse me dude, do you have a lighter please ?"
>>66379717
Whatever fuck you man I know the life I've lived and the way people have treated me. It's not injustice it's just people being fucking assholes.
>>66379856
You probably got kicked out for a different reason but you think that's what happened because you want to feel like the victim.
>>66379831
>When I see shit like that, I feel I'm already oppressing everybody by being there since I'm a straight white guy, and need to make sure I don't trigger anybody by asking someone "Excuse me dude, do you have a lighter please ?"
So, the concept of not being racist or homophobic makes you feel like you're "triggering" people when you ask for lighters? That's a pretty big fucking leap, man. I'd seriously suggest you get help.
I mean, all that sign means is "please don't say nigger or faggot" and ironically it sounds like you were the only person "triggered" that night.
>>66379787
Don't worry anon. I have a story as well. I was walking home one evening then several SJWs kidnapped me and made me watch cuck porn and feminist frequency videos all day in some creepy SJW sex dungeon. I thought I was a goner but all of the sudden Milo the great alt-right warrior came and rescue me. I proceeded by repaying him with my life and I've been fighting the SJW menace ever since then.
>>66379824
I have no stake in this but whenever anybody uses the term "white dude" there's about a 100% chance they're a fucking dickhead
>>66379950
I'm not even an alt right faggot I'm just saying people have been dicks to me that also happen to portray the whole "no hatred" attitude.
>>66379856
Who fucking gets kicked out for breathing, having a punchable face or having long hair?
>They told me on the way out "no hippies allowed"
jesus christ
>>66379856
I'm still waiting to hear more about this story or how it relates to the concept of not being racist/homophobic. I mean, at first I assumed you meant that you went to some feminist party (why would you, brave alt-rightist?) and you were kicked out for having long hair and breathing... but that really doesn't make sense. I mean, those whacky SJWs would welcome your long, gender-bending hair. But now I think I get what you're saying. Once you went to a frat party and some douchey frat bro kicked you out because you looked like a "loser," and as a result you think banning racists from venues is somehow just as bad, or something, because reasons. What you're really saying is that minorities and queer people need to toughen up as you're the REAL victim, as you were once kicked out of a party for being too drunk. Part of this toughening up includes allowing the same hostility you oppose yourself, because, again, REASONS.
>>66380062
This has nothing to do with minorities really. I'm not a victim of systematic racism. Just a victim of people being assholes. also More often than not there has rarely been minorities of any kind at these events to begin with.
>>66380000
You know, man. Strange shit has happened before so Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. Still skeptical though.
>>66380109
So why are you against people not being racist at concerts?
>>66380205
Not against it. Don't see how a sign is necessary though especially at a grouper show where most people would hopefully be like minded. But when there are people stupid enough in this world to voice strongly dissenting opinions at such a place I guess it does make sense for it to be there. I just kind of laughed on my way in.
>>66380271
Okay, so can you please explain why this made you go on a rant about how you were once made fun of for having long hair?
You're seriously making no sense. It's like just the concept that maybe some people are discriminated against made you rage and scream "but what about me!!!" I mean, it's such a odd reaction to the statement "just don't say nigger or faggot" that I feel like you're not being forthcoming here.
Even if the sign isn't "necessary," why do you object to a sign sharing a positive concept (don't be discriminatory), especially since you claim to share this belief? And clearly it is necessary if the mention of racism makes you go on rants about how much of a victim you are and how there's no need for discussion of racism. I mean, you even admitted that "minorities" are rare at a show for a female performer no less.
I mean, could you at least put forth a coherent thought here so I could understand what you're trying to say.
>>66380421
Someone asked for an example of a situation where I was removed from a social event for practically no reason and I gave one? Jesus you're more asspained than me
>>66380474
Yes, because you directly responded to my post suggesting "just don't say nigger and you won't get kicked out." That sign shouldn't matter if you're not a colossal asshole.
So again, why is it at all relevant that you were once kicked out of a party for "breathing?"
I thought punk rock was supposed to be about not giving a fuck about what other people think, now it seems like all people care about in punk or heavy metal is trying not to "offend" anyone.
Chicagofag here, I've only seen shit like this a couple of times and when I have, it was at punk shows (big surprise there). It seems like everyone there has a big superiority complex about this sort of thing, and being offended is the worst thing that could happen
>>66380576
I'm just saying "hatred" is subjective that's all. Because it really is. Mostly because anyone with a brain grew out of saying nigger by age 15
What it sounds like to me is that you think you can only be made fun of, or hated, or discriminated against in any way if you are a minority which is just not true. People are assholes to other people no matter what their skin color is. Systematic discrimination and oppression against minorities is much different than people being a dick to another person because they inherently dislike them.
>>66379949
No, it's just that saying "dude" instead of some gender-neutral pronoun or whatever could offend someone and label me as "problematic". It never happened to me tho desu.
And I know I shouldn't say "nigger" or shit like that, I'm not some /pol/tard edgelord, that's why I find this kind of sign stupid. I'm not 12 anymore, I don't need to be patronized.
But what if I want to impersonate an old homophobic macho guy to my friends just to make fun of this kind of person while I'm drunk for a few minutes ? Is this really "problematic" ?
What if I want say to someone that IMO social classes are more important when it comes to societal problems than gender, sexual orientation and skin color ? Is this "problematic" too?
I just don't want to care about whenever you are a black trans or a white female or whatever, I just want to enjoy the music and have fun with my friends. If I start to think about whenever this or that is "problematic" or not, I don't have fun.
Society is already putting a lot of pressure on everybody to act normal. I don't want to feel that kind of pressure at a punk show.
>>66380421
goddam this is some serious asshurt
>>66380724
This sums it up perfectly.
>>66378998
thanks I'll be glad to implement these policies in my beatdown hc/brutal slam death metal/gorenoise/power electronics venue.
>>66379413
I fucking hate crowdsurfers all together
>>66380882
Who the fuck came up with crowdsurfing anyways?
Stupid shit.
>>66380701
Okay, so you think racism should be permitted or that it shouldn't be discussed/outlawed because people can be discriminated against for other reasons?
Do you feel the same about the work place? Don't make official rules banning racism because because can be assholes?
yikes
>>66381048
yeah i do think it should be permitted you nazi bitch
>>66380724
>But what if I want to impersonate an old homophobic macho guy to my friends just to make fun of this kind of person while I'm drunk for a few minutes ? Is this really "problematic" ?
Yeah, sorta. I mean, if you're pretending to be a "macho homophobe" at a show, some people might not like hearing that. In the same way some people might not find me pretending to be an old racist and shouting "nigger" to be funny. And what really is the satire, here? To me it just sounds like ironic homophobia.
>What if I want say to someone that IMO social classes are more important when it comes to societal problems than gender, sexual orientation and skin color ? Is this "problematic" too?
Well, that depends what the hell you're talking about. And you're discussing this at a show?
>I just don't want to care about whenever you are a black trans or a white female or whatever, I just want to enjoy the music and have fun with my friends. If I start to think about whenever this or that is "problematic" or not, I don't have fun.
I honestly don't have this problem where I'm terrified that I'm going to say something offensive to a "black trans" person. Maybe that comes with not being a bigot?
>>66381048
You're so fucking stupid it hurts.
>>66380644
Punk and related sub-cultures have always been some degree of anti-white and anti-male t.b.h. Its just something that comes with the territory.
>>66381147
Ah, I see. You don't even know what you're arguing for yourself.
>>66378998
Thanks for sharing. It's probably going to piss off a lot of status quo people here who either don't understand or value being an asshole so much that they don't care. Glad I caught this before the thread was deleted.
>>66381467
Sometimes it feels like this site is so jaded and hostile that it's nice to see a poster who is open minded and thoughtful.
>>66380724
/thread
>>66378998
>(((Krajewski)))
>>66380109
>systematic racism
is there anything worse than retards who conflate 'systemic' and 'systematic'? see that shit all day on social media likebait posts
this is the most disgusting thing i've read all day
>>66381119
Yeah, sorta. I mean, if you're pretending to be a "macho homophobe" at a show, some people might not like hearing that. In the same way some people might not find me pretending to be an old racist and shouting "nigger" to be funny. And what really is the satire, here? To me it just sounds like ironic homophobia.
Well, I would tell I grew up with plenty of gay people around me what I was a kid, if it can calm them.
And are you implying ironic homophobia is bad ? Do you know what was the original purpose of irony ?
>Well, that depends what the hell you're talking about. And you're discussing this at a show?
Yeah, people at alternative music shows are generally politicized. And while I think an healthy dose of identity politics in public policies can be a good thing, the current meme obsession for them is stupid.
>I honestly don't have this problem where I'm terrified that I'm going to say something offensive to a "black trans" person. Maybe that comes with not being a bigot?
Nice assumption, Mr. I'm-Holier-Than-You.
It's useless to discuss this with you anyway, you don't seem to comprehend that when I go to an alt music show, I except everybody to not be homophobic or sexist or whatever.
Putting a sign like this is incredibly patronizing and suggest that we are a stupid audience of homophobic, sexist and racist fucks and that we should try for once to not behave like a teenage edgelord.
I never saw any signs like that at any show before, and I never saw people being assholes at those shows. And if someone is behaving like an ass, just tell him to calm down or fuck off, it's not that hard.
>>66383124
There's a clear difference between Colbert style satire and just being a homophobic asshole and claiming "hey, it's ironic!" Are you actually making some social criticism that pokes fun at homophobes or are you just screaming "faggot" and claiming "irony?" And if it's the former, why are people at concerts trying to get you banned?
>Yeah, people at alternative music shows are generally politicized.
I agree. I also think it's ignorant to assume that any show will only attract socially "progressive" people. Hell, on this very board I see tonnes of people who think that AJJ are being "ironic" with their socially progressive messages, and I don't think "I like Grouper" is "progressive" enough to assume everyone in the crowd doesn't hold a misogynist view.
> the current meme obsession for them is stupid
I don't know what this means.
>Nice assumption, Mr. I'm-Holier-Than-You.
Look, I'm not even trying to be a dick. I've been to plenty of events that people on here would consider "SJW," I've met plenty of feminists, queer activists, trans activists. I've honestly never had this problem that people like you seem to have. I've never had some person call me out because I asked for a lighter for a smoke. To me it either seems completely imagined or you were called out because you actually said something pretty ignorant and offensive.
And for the record, people have challenged my beliefs. My response? I engage them in a conversation, explain what I meant and how they interpreted it. Sometimes they agree with me, sometimes I agree with them. You'd be surprised if you go into a conversation not immediately calling someone an "SJW" because you made a shitty comment about gender/race/whatever.
>>66383124
>It's useless to discuss this with you anyway, you don't seem to comprehend that when I go to an alt music show, I except everybody to not be homophobic or sexist or whatever.
I expect/hope for the same. I also wouldn't get offended if a sign said "no racism," and I honestly can't imagine anyone being against racism being offended by the suggestion
>Putting a sign like this is incredibly patronizing and suggest that we are a stupid audience of homophobic, sexist and racist fucks and that we should try for once to not behave like a teenage edgelord.
Honest question: do you complain when stores put signs up saying "cameras watching, no shoplifting?" Do you get offended if a venue says "no outside drinks, no weapons?" Do you think these "insult you intelligence?" Once again, should a business remove "no racism" from their code of conduct? What's your reasoning for this?
>I never saw any signs like that at any show before, and I never saw people being assholes at those shows. And if someone is behaving like an ass, just tell him to calm down or fuck off, it's not that hard.
So, you're against someone being racist at a show, but also against a sign saying "don't be racist?" Did you think that sign was specifically designed for you?
>>66379333
The reason they're having a house show or whatever is so they don't have to deal with bullshit they don't like.
If you told me I can't wear shoes in your house, you'd be just as justified as them for kicking me out when I kept them on.
Don't like it, don't go.
I'm fine with the no racism, no homophobia, no sexism but once you tell me I can't have a beer because it's a sober space that's when I leave the situation and isolate myself and drink alone.
>>66383540
This.
If you saw that sign and thought twice about going it, you might be the kind of person they're trying to 'keep out'.
Punk shows, because of the 'aggressive' music and dance, are always in danger of being hijacked by people who're just looking to party, or to hit somebody, or to be edgy.
If you're picking on people and bashing them too hard and they don't want it, I want you out.
If you're using homophobic or racist language and trying to hide behind a 'punk is about doing whatever you want!' banner, I want you out.
The local scene is still very much a home for people.
>>66383492
>There's a clear difference between Colbert style satire and just being a homophobic asshole and claiming "hey, it's ironic!" Are you actually making some social criticism that pokes fun at homophobes or are you just screaming "faggot" and claiming "irony?" And if it's the former, why are people at concerts trying to get you banned?
See >>66380724
>if I want to impersonate an old homophobic macho guy to my friends just to make fun of this kind of person
>make fun of this kind of person
Beside that, I have never been banned from a show.
>I also think it's ignorant to assume that any show will only attract socially "progressive" people. Hell, on this very board I see tonnes of people who think that AJJ are being "ironic" with their socially progressive messages, and I don't think "I like Grouper" is "progressive" enough to assume everyone in the crowd doesn't hold a misogynist view.
Okay maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that because the two local music scene I have been sort of involved with wouldn't allow that kind of behavior.
I mean, you would be ostracized pretty quickly by everyone if you have /pol/-tier opinions.
>I don't know what this means.
I will just say that my political opinions are closer to /leftypol/ than anything else, even though, like I told you, I think a healthy dose of idpol isn't bad at all.
But I don't wanna delve too much into this.
>>66378998
stop giving shitty sites like noisey/vice any clicks and views you dumbasses!
>vice
>noisey
>>66383852
As far as 'I just wanna enjoy the music without thinking about whether or not I'm problematic or not' goes, if that's how you feel, that's on you.
You ought to know what you're getting into with what has always been a highly political genre in one way or another.
If you don't want to engage, stay at home.
>I mean, you would be ostracized pretty quickly by everyone if you have /pol/-tier opinions.
And you think this is bad? You're not being banished from life, you're being shunned from a small scene by the people you [seem to] disagree with. No shit.
I wouldn't be surprised if I showed up at a Skrewdriver show with an 'end racism' t-shirt and got booed.
>>66383852
>Beside that, I have never been banned from a show.
Okay, so assuming your homophobic satire is a biting satire of actual homophobes, what are you worried about? Clearly the sign isn't meant for you.
>Okay maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that because the two local music scene I have been sort of involved with wouldn't allow that kind of behavior.
Honestly, I'm into what people here might call "sjw" scenes, and I've met people would be be welcome on /pol/, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't met these people, but I've met shitty people at fucking Kaki King concerts. I'm sure Grouper attracts at least some shitty people.
>I will just say that my political opinions are closer to /leftypol/ than anything else, even though, like I told you, I think a healthy dose of idpol isn't bad at all.
I'll admit ignorance, I dunno what lefypol beliefs are (that's on eight chan?) I don't even know what idpol is.
All I'm saying dude, and I hope you can agree. The very suggestion that racism, homophobia isn't cool... should be okay. Like, you'd want to be in a place that doesn't encourage that, right? I don't want to fight with you for the sake of being "right," we ought to find some common ground.
>>66383492
>>66383540
>>66383852 (cont.)
>Look, I'm not even trying to be a dick. I've been to plenty of events that people on here would consider "SJW," I've met plenty of feminists, queer activists, trans activists. I've honestly never had this problem that people like you seem to have. I've never had some person call me out because I asked for a lighter for a smoke.
I told you this lighter stuff never really happened to me.
The alt-music scene of the city I live in currently is actually composed of many feminists and people into idpol.
But when I first move here and started to search which were the cool places to hang out, I started to see a lot of events for "women and trans only", stuff like that, and I felt really unwelcome, as if the only fact that I'm a white male is oppressing to these people by itself.
When I actually went to those live shows, I found that the people there were actually very nice with me though.
But by contrast, the previous music scene I knew (which was better in pure musical terms btw, but it was in a bigger city) wasn't like that.
The people involved were politically engaged, in favor of squatting and feminism, etc, but not so upfront about it. And I felt more at ease there.
I felt like I could have some friendly political disagreements with those people without being seen as a shitty person or something.
I'm not saying I have been ostracized in the scene of the city I currently live in, but I can't help sometimes but feel like that if you don't share 100% of their beliefs, you aren't welcome.
And I just don't like it.
>Honest question: do you complain when stores put signs up saying "cameras watching, no shoplifting?" Do you get offended if a venue says "no outside drinks, no weapons?" Do you think these "insult you intelligence?" Once again, should a business remove "no racism" from their code of conduct? What's your reasoning for this?
You have a point.
>>66383966
>And you think this is bad?
Do you actually read what I'm writing ?
>>66384031
>I'll admit ignorance, I dunno what lefypol beliefs are (that's on eight chan?)
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sites/leftypol
>I don't even know what idpol is.
idpol is a short hand for identity politics
>All I'm saying dude, and I hope you can agree. The very suggestion that racism, homophobia isn't cool... should be okay. Like, you'd want to be in a place that doesn't encourage that, right? I don't want to fight with you for the sake of being "right," we ought to find some common ground.
Yeah I agree of course.
>>66384193
>The alt-music scene of the city I live in currently is actually composed of many feminists and people into idpol.
What in the fuck is idpol?
>, I started to see a lot of events for "women and trans only"
Which events?
>When I actually went to those live shows, I found that the people there were actually very nice with me though
So... what's your problem?
>but I can't help sometimes but feel like that if you don't share 100% of their beliefs, you aren't welcome.
Could you describe an instance where you felt this?
>You have a point.
Thanks.
Recent story;
>just last saturday
>a bunch of us went to a mini-fest
>hosted at one of Valencia's(Spain) Occupied Anarchist Social Centres.
>full of trves, skatepunks, punks-for-the-pic, old drunktards, a few alt cuties, cool crusties...
>you know, the whole deal.
>too many people for too little room
>everyone was merely standing
>no moves at all during the first bands
>this local sludgy band called Cementerio plays up next
>my pals and I thinks its high time the crowd starts moving.
>band starts with some heavy bouncy riffs
>go side-to-side, a bunch of jumps, push some guys have a little laugh,
>no crowdkill or stupid hxc kids flashy dance
>get back to our spot
>notice singer points out to a corner.
>this skinny fart on the ground, fetal position.
>me and a budd go ask him what's up,if he needs anything, so-sorry etc etc.
>guy rushes outside.
>everyone, standng still looking at us.
>one guy calls my friend out, says he hit the skinny fart at the stomach, left him without air.
>feel pinching looks from sjws and boring fucks.
>we enjoy the show on our own, no crowd interaction,
>go outside and everyone's looking at us.
>last band is shit
>fuck outta there
I shit you not, this town knows crap about punk other than lepard shave, earrings and dirty leather.
>>66378998
Not gonna lie this article triggered me pretty hard.
>lets try to be more tolerant
>proceeds to Salem Witch Hunt: Rape accusations edition
>if you disagree with me, then you're not allowed
>covering controversial/taboo subjects in music is fine, but having a somewhat/not really controversial band name is not
I hope this article is some late April Fools joke. The hypocrisy in it is ridiculous otherwise.
>>66384297
>Which events?
Feminist stuff. The thing is every single venue that organize those shows does that too in this town.
I can understand why female feminists would want to be left alone between them (even though I don't think it's necessarily the best thing to do but whatever), but it made me feel like that if I wasn't a radical feminist too, I would be looked down upon.
>So... what's your problem?
>Could you describe an instance where you felt this?
Every time I browsed the website where all the shows are announced.
I know I'm sort of overreacting, but yeah, seeing all these people agreeing on radical identity politics stuff didn't made me feel welcome.
I know alt-music scenes are always a bit political, but not always that much, and doesn't necessarily have that kind of particular ideology.
>>66384353
This.
>I hope this article is some late April Fools joke.
No it's not, this is just a symptom of what is wrong with the left-wing these days IMO.
>>66384193
>I started to see a lot of events for "women and trans only", stuff like that, and I felt really unwelcome
I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable in someone else's safe space?
Yes, you're throwing the good out with the bad sometimes, but there are other places you can go.
In my free time, I hang out with my friends and people I like. I don't hang out with people I continually fight with or don't like because 'there are no safe spaces in the real world'. Same goes for this.
Sometimes you don't want to deal with gropers, or dudes looking for a date, or people expecting you to prove to them that you really are into the band.
>>66384228
Sorry, what did you mean then, that if you're obviously /pol/ crazy, that you'll get ostracized any way and that there's no need for a sign?
If that's the case, the sign isn't just to let homophobes they aren't welcome, but also to let queer people know that the space is consciously looking out for them as well.
>>66384325
I mean, yeah, people are shitty.
'Punk' attracts a wide net of people. I saw the Dropkick Murphys once, which appeals to too many people outside the 'scene', and all they did was try and hurt people. One bro was standing in the pit, arms around his girl, and when I got pushed near him, he punched me in the fucking neck.
>>66384353
>if you disagree with me, then you're not allowed
This is never as simple at that, friend.
Not every interaction needs to be a debate, and if a private place wants that, boofuckinghoo. Go to a big venue with seats controlled by dollar signs if you don't want to deal with someone's personal version of what a venue should be. It's the point of independent places.
You'd have a point if the Electric Factory banned blacks, and I told you to deal with it, but this is someone's passion project.
There's just a knee-jerk to 'SJW' stuff.
>covering controversial/taboo subjects in music is fine, but having a somewhat/not really controversial band name is not
>>66384786
If you like the music but not the message, why come out to a live show?
What are you going to get out of it from seeing it live, save from a place to debate people?
Much as someone might want to, you can never divorce the 'crowd experience' from the crowd itself, so why try?
Everyone there is going to get the 'see the band and hop around' thing that you're going to get out of it, but so much more, so why should they make the allowance for you?
>>66384786
>Feminist stuff. The thing is every single venue that organize those shows does that too in this town.
Could you name at least ONE feminist event. Please.
>I can understand why female feminists would want to be left alone between them (even though I don't think it's necessarily the best thing to do but whatever), but it made me feel like that if I wasn't a radical feminist too, I would be looked down upon.
Which event did you feel like this?
>Every time I browsed the website where all the shows are announced.
Okay, Cloud your provide a source?
Granted I live in Canada, but all the gig sites I know mention nothing about race/gender/etc.
In fact, I was able to attend several "feminist" shows (kaki king/warpaint/sleater kinney) without any out any of this absurdness.
Cloud You PLEASE provide a sourc?
>I know I'm sort of overreacting, but yeah, seeing all these people agreeing on radical identity politics stuff didn't made me feel welcome.
Who and which politics in particular?
>I know alt-music scenes are always a bit political, but not always that much, and doesn't necessarily have that kind of particular ideology.
Can you please name a specific instance where you were barred from an "alt-music" concert for your political beliefs? Thanks.
>No it's not, this is just a symptom of what is wrong with the left-wing these days IMO.
Could you please give some specific examples of the "left-wing" in action? Thanks!
>>66385007
I feel like you are playing the old Socratic trick on me and I'm tired, so this will be my last post.
I'm a continental European, so I don't think the website will be of any interest to you if you only speak English.
Besides, I don't want to say where I live, because I wanna stay anonymous there. So feel free to not believe me.
There is a lot of left-wing militants in the city I live in compared to the rest of my country though, so no, the stuff I talk about isn't common.
The feminist events I talked about are semi-regular events where female and trans feminists meet and talk about...stuff ?
I don't know what though, I never really cared about those meetings. This is pretty standard militant stuff I guess.
.
>Can you please name a specific instance where you were barred from an "alt-music" concert for your political beliefs? Thanks
I told you at least three times that I was never EVER barred from an concert.
I just told you I FELT (in my mind, in my head) unwelcome. It was just a feeling, and I explained to you at least four times why I felt that way.
>Could you please give some specific examples of the "left-wing" in action?
Which "left-wing" ? Marxists ? Anarchists ? Social-democrats ? Modern liberals ? The authoritarian kind ? Or the libertarian one ?
Watch some videos of Slavoj Zizek on Youtube if you wanna see the kind of critiques of society I like.
Read some Guy Debord, look at what Marx talked about in Das Kapital.
I'm not necessarily calling for the revolution/overthrowing of my government right now, I just want some more social policies to make life more bearable for those who aren't trust-fund kids.
Since I was born in a working-class family, I like people defending my kind.
The "wrong" left-wing I talked about who be more influenced by Judith Butler, or authors like her, I dunno.
>>66379831
>need to make sure I don't trigger anybody by asking someone "Excuse me dude, do you have a lighter please ?"
absolutely nobody would be "triggered" by this
If you agree with "safe spaces" you are nothing more than a pathetic pussy.
>"Wahh someone bumped into me!!"
>"Wahh those guys are moshing!!!!"
Just end it. You will never succeed in the real world thinking that everywhere is your hugbox, it doesn't work like that, kiddos. You deserve to get beaten to a bloody pulp.
