“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin
previous thread: >>66166378
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
THEORY
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Arnold Schcoenberg's "Fundementals of Music Composition"
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw [Embed] [Embed]
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
IMPROVISATION
>Fake books for jazz and blues soloing
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzW9o5O35hQzMzA0ZmI0MWEtZGFmNi00OTQ0LWI2MjMtOWUyNzgyNmUzNzNm&usp=drive_web&ddrp=1&hl=en#
STUFF /COMP/ DOES
>the /comp/ YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA
>the /comp/ weekly challenge
[email protected]
Other resources (full of lessons and books): http://pastebin.com/k3xddxwr
Who are among the best orchestrators of the 1990s among producers and composers respectively?
>>66213964
>>66214266
I meant on the amateur level, just so you don't misunderstand. I'm not saying electronic producers are necessarily better than professional arrangers.
It's an interesting subject though. If we drop the 90s, personally, I'm really fond of Lido:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuiQgfxgMJc
Orchestration-wise, Sofia Gubadulina is like listening to a big bag of candy:
https://youtu.be/L8JVSYj-qV8
>>66215641
Remember to get your variations in tomorrow
>>66215655
and your WIPs here before then for criticism.
Is there someone here who played an instrument before but stopped? How much time have passed since then and what is your current skill with it?
>>66216854
Me.
Well, I played cello for... 12 years probably, from first grade to the end of high school. My skill level was not top level for age group, but also not far from it. I applied to music school for composition, but I still auditioned on cello at my two safeties and got a cello scholarship at both, to give you an idea of where I am technically. Also, if you count composition as an instrument, I did that for 4 years and was very good, I got into the top conservatory for composition at the time, and I stopped that when I left high school, too.
>How much time has passed since then and what is your skill level with it?
It's been about 5 years, I graduated from college, and I'm trying to get back into those things.
With composition, pen and paper composing doesn't really inerest me anymore, I'm trying to write works with more electronic elements -ideally electroaucoustic music with interactive elments- and right now I'm learning the ground work for that. I'm also working on a wind quintet with no electronic elements that I'm moderately satisfied with. It's hard to judge where I am with comp.
With cello, I practice on and off. On my best days, I'm better than I used to be in some ways. On my worst days, I get frustrated with the instrument and nothing works properly. I have trouble progressing in a big way or doing things I'm satisfied with on cello anymore, it's not something that interests me beyond the fact that I've sunk a ton of time into and am good at it.
>>66216854
Yes
Cello, two years
Eleven years since i've stopped
I don't know shit about it i wish i had not stopped
>>66217412
>>66217443
>two other cellists here
>in response to "who's played an instrument but stopped"
Makes me slightly nervous です
>>66217412
Just to sate and/or justify my own worries, what caused you to stop in college?
>>66217925
Well, I stopped right before college, actually.
Basically, I didn't really like playing the cello, so when I stopped composing, there was no reason to continue cello. Why I didn't like cello is basically because I had some teachers who were extremely tough on me and singled me out, so I began really disliking how I play and felt self-conscious about it.
I stopped composing because Shulamit Ran told me to.
>>66218563
What a fucking bitch.
>>66218563
>I stopped composing because Shulamit Ran told me to.
What a cunt jesus christ. Fuck her and here meme music. Never listen to a woman anon
>>66218563
>I stopped composing because Shulamit Ran told me to
As in, a famous quote of hers, or she was at your college at one point and literally said so? If the latter, jeez, that's awful.
I don't really know why I'm linking this, mostly just for the sake of linking it, but this piece is pretty much my biggest inspiration both for playing the cello and composing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDZcEbhLvig
Is there any place for tonal, classically-inspired works in the modern concert scene?
>>66219351
On the local scale, definitely.
>>66219186
Yeah, she told me face to face during a masterclass.
>>66219053
I actually like her vocal music. It was probably good advice in the long run, anyway.
>>66219450
>>66219450
Just to clarify, I was already fed up with composition for a bunch of other reasons. It's kind of treated like a second class department, it's hard to get musicians to respect you, obviously poor career outlook and you have to have THAT conversation over and over again, plus I found out that I was kind of fed up dealing with musicians and artists anyway. A lot of them are really immature [spoiler]like 50+ year old women who tell 18 year old boys to stop pursuing their dreams[/spoiler].
>>66219450
>It was probably good advice in the long run, anyway.
No it wasn't. She was being a cunt you don't allow people to crush your dreams like that. You are there to learn from her not to be told you are a failure.
What do you do now, work in a grocery store? Was it really better in the long run? John Cage was literally told by Schönberg that he had no feeling for harmony and that didn't stop him.
>>66219578
>What do you do now, work in a grocery store? Was it really better in the long run?
Lol no. I'm finishing up a math degree with some summer classes atm. I'm starting a job at a tech startup in August. I have plenty of time to continue my studies of composition with less judgement from others. I might apply to comp grad programs if I can put a decent enough portfolio together in the next couple of years.
bump while I mow
how does this make you feel
>>66216854
Stopped playing keyboard like a year ago because of tendonosis, I sat down at a piano in a practice room today though like an idiot while I was at a college to register
https://clyp.it/l3mn1n3i
>mfw my hands afterward
>>66219450
>face to face during a masterclass
Jesus. What was the issue? Did she feel your music was not avant-garde enough? Too classical? Not classical enough?
Actually, I'm not even sure how a composition master class is supposed to work. Is that normal to be told such a thing before an audience?
/
>>66214266
>best orchestrators of the 1990s
Arvo Part and Schnittke would be my picks
>>66219351
If you look at thew concert scene, its mostly tonal, classical period or romantic period pieces. So yes, there's a huge place for tonal music. Some ensembles specialize in 20th century works, but they are few and far between. I would hazard a guess that 80% of any given concert will be most comfortable with common practice music, and prefer it over 20th century / serial works. The problem is actually getting your music into concerts. You need contacts ideally with conductors for that, and you need credibility like a masters degree in composition or to be a prof at the music department.
>>66223000
imo a composition masterclass shouldn't have a standard audience, but an audience of your peers - fellow young composers.
The way we run them is one person has their piece played, then they sit in the hot seat and answer questions, and there's a general discussion about the piece, then the next person has their piece played, etc until the night is over. We do this over a week (while having composition seminars during the day) and then have a public concert on the last day, with some selected works.
Composition is a pretty personal thing, I wouldn't really want to be discussing it too in depth in front of a public audience. Its fine if the people listening are composers/performers/producers/audio engineers/music writers etc. but imo a public audience should be presented with polished works and if there is going to be an element of talking, it should be from a soloist or conductor directed at the audience, to help them appreciate a piece. I dont really think a masterclass should be a public spectacle. You learn much more in a quiet place with your tutor, and you dont have the stress or nerves of being in front of an audience when the quite personal elements of your performing or your composing are discussed.
>>66224724
>typed so much due to a simple misunderstanding
Sorry, didn't mean before an actual audience of concertgoers, just an audience of peers as you said.
>if there is going to be an element of talking, it should be from a soloist or conductor directed at the audience
>tfw managed to avoid speaking about my own pieces every semester at the composition concert, despite it being required
>>66224441
>Arvo Part and Schnittke would be my picks
Hi poly. What is your opinion on Schnittke's Psalms of Repentance
Are piano and electric guitar duos a thing? I imagine there should be a lot of jazz musicians who do that.
I figured since I play both electric guitar and piano, might as well write songs for them.
>>66225087
I can't think of any pieces for electric guitar + piano but go ahead. Seems like a good mixture if done right
>>66225087
usually there are drums and bass too, if we're talking jazz. You can go without the bass if you use the piano in it's place, though. I think there should be some form of percussion in there, at least, but that's more of a personal opinion of what sounds good.
You could totally write a jazz piece for guitar+piano
>l i t e r a l l y autistic
>bullied throughout school career, especially by band mates/band director, I was quite the airhead
>anxious, stupid, naive, basically wanted to learn trumpet and brass but too scared to stay in band and learn how to play
>high school, tell them I can play some jazz guitar and scales, director promises to write me music for marching band, month goes by, keeps saying "tomorrow", band mates use me as a lackey while the other first years look on and laugh
>eventually move away a month later, decide not to join the band, lots of life shit happens, homeless for some time
Now I'm 19 and I wish I had picked up theory. I'm a hack. I can only read guitar tabs. This is the worst feeling in the world.
I want to be able to play this in 3 years:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8drXawOjAngNWNYZ2pnTUp3WHM&usp=sharing&tid=0B8drXawOjAngdVljQ2hKQXZSTzA
Where do I start? Style is classical guitar but I use an acoustic for now, can't afford to buy a guitar unless financial aid for school this fall covers it.
>>66225316
Are you literally me? The difference was that I was actually a good player in high school. I was far ahead of 90% of the band in terms of theory knowledge and the band teacher always put me off. I played some christmas songs at the Spring concert and that was it. Dude kept saying tomorrow every time.
We had jazz band for like 2 weeks until everyone left. I was always the only one cued for a solo and I played it right every time. Nobody else could improvise whatsoever. Pisses me the fuck off because the dude said he could get me into Berklee and here I am at some shit community college.
>>66225316
I have to ask this:
How high is your budget every month?
Do you WANT to play classical guitar or do you think you SHOULD be playing classical guitar?
I really don't want to be too harsh, but starting to play classical guitar at 19 is really late and maybe a tad too late if you want to become a professional.
If you just want to be able to play some pieces you can definitely still go for it.
How do I use broken chords? I usually end up with a weird series of parallel fifths or really muddy thirds. Should I use as many chord tones in the melody as I can, so I don't have to worry about having too many notes in the bass? Or should I invert chords more often to prevent strange harmonic motion?
>>66225460
That's really fucking shitty mate. Actually, you sound like me too, except with guitar. I was afraid of theory, but I could still play by ear. I learned fur elise by ear and my teacher let me play it at my eighth grade talent show. The band teacher finally caved and offered me a solo during the concert, but I broke two of my fingers right before the concert. They're fine now. But yeah, theory put me off.
I feel for the community college, but hey you can always apply to a four year. Hope it isn't too expensive for you..My former friend got into ivies from his community college but he busted his ass.
>>66225567
I'm a mental incompetent. I can barely go outside without freaking out. My medication doesn't let me drive, holding a job is impossible. I need special accomodations at school, and with some grant money I was hoping to get this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/kremona-soloist-s65c-classical-acoustic-guitar/j05984#productDetail
Good enough to last me for a while and be classified as educational expense, not priced high enough that I would have to use all of the money. Most of the money is needed for books, living, etc.
Oh no anon, I want to. Should? For what reason? I want to be a composer, and play classical guitar, I want to write my own pieces. Guitar, I used to hate it, but I want to take it seriously now. I want to make music that will turn heads, I don't want a:
"thats nice"
any more.
I learned bachs first cello suite on my acoustic, right now I only remember the prelude and allemande, but god fucking damn did I rage when I realized my music just couldn't turn heads. I needed to be better, to understand the theory behind the music, to polish the execution so my music would become audible sex for normie ears.
>>66225701
same way as normal chords. why not arrange a progression of normal chords first, then break (as in arpeggiate, I assume) them?
>>66225751
Hey squadwurd, fart anon here
I told the dept lead at the community college I can't use my wrists and he pretty much told me no four year will let me do composition if I can't sight read on keyboard
I'm scared
>>66226850
how bad are your wrists? can't you play at all? Or can you do simple things on the piano? Sightreading and wrists are imo not directly related unless you have to play difficult (as in physically challenging) stuff on the piano, such as Chopin Etudes.
>>66226850
>no four year will let me do composition if I can't sight read on keyboard
Lol I'm fucked too then. Fuck me for choosing guitar I guess.
W-why is this becoming a feels thread?
Anyway, forgot to reply yesterday. Yeah, I dropped out 2 years ago and haven't played piano that much, maybe sat down once a week and mostly just improvise, do some practices. I pretty much forgot to play everything, but I don't mind that because it was always completely normal for me. After the summer I would never be able to play pieces from a previous year at all, without some refreshment.
Yesterday I did one playthrough of Chopin's Scherzo no.2, and boy, I think it took me an hour to go through it. Beginning and some other parts stayed in my muscle memory, but I had to carefully read through the rest (and I was never a good sight reader).
All the way through, I was thinking about how fucking hard stuff I've always played, and why the fuck would anyone throw all that work away. Shit, my whole shitty college undergraduate program would probably be easier to pass than to learn another Scherzo. And I even spent a year in academy and dropped like a retard, because of a mixture of problems with theory, piano and yeah, my mentor also mentioned to me more than a few times that it would be better to drop out if I can't do it (while I was in a bad mental state at that time). Imagine fucking going from a perspective pianist with a lot of success to a fucking nobody that teachers make fun of because of a bad theory knowledge every week. It really fucked me up, I think I got a slight PTSP from those conversations.
>>66227159
I dropped piano and classical music a couple of years ago too, even rejected a music school. I just felt like it was a very risky path to take, I would never make it as a performer and I didn't want to teach for the rest of my life.
Also, I went to explore rock and metal music, picking up electric guitar. But due to a lack of band and having an urge to create music, recently I went back to piano, desperately trying to write pieces for it. I'm trying to write solo pieces for the electric too.. not sure how I'm going to approach that.
>>66227399
You want to write a solo piece for electric guitar?
What style do you have in mind?
So, after I came up with a litte organ prelude for the previous challenge, I decided to take its theme and make a chorale out of it, and would like your opinion. Also feel free to point out voicing mistakes like parallels and stuff if you find some.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0w0KSlqsuNo
I'd probably try to make a fugue and toccata next, but not with this theme any more.
>>66227506
No idea, probably jazz and some pop-ish stuff. I have wrote one small little piece, but it's very very basic.
>>66227838
>tfw finally get the chance to practice my Latin again
Only took a glance over it, but voicing looks fine. Would add more fermatas though.
Not the best score to study, but you should get the idea:
http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/2/2b/IMSLP238417-WIMA.1591-BWV040_BA7.394_105_freuet_euch_ihr_christen_alle.pdf
>>66227838
Looks and sounds pretty good anon! nice work
>>66220844
good
>>66217925
>>two other cellists here
>>in response to "who's played an instrument but stopped"
desu i didn't really like music at the time
>>66227971
thanks for the feedback. The thing with fermatas in Bach's Cantatas is, that, since they're mostly original church songs, he places the fermatas wherever there's be a line break in the song, and the lines mostly had similar lengths (in your example every 2 bars)
As for the text used in my choral, it's not really a church song but just the Latin Hail Mary prayer, whose lines have lots of varying lengths, thus there'd be fermatas all over the place, sometimes in places where they'd break up the flow of the melody. That's why I'd rather just use long notes or rests instead of fermatas.
>>66225046
I like them. very interesting and effective choral writing.
>>66229146
Yeah there's no need to include fermatas when your score is written with the exact timing you want in mind. Your score already has the rests and longer notes built in. Its only if you want an ensemble to really stop at a certain point that you should use a fermata. Sometimes short fermatas can be fun to just "place" a note at the culmination of a melody or something. Can add a bit of feeling and make the arrival at a resolution have more impact
Going to perform my piece tomorrow.. Fuck it's been around 6 years since I played for an audience, man I'm kinda nervous now. How do you guys get over stage fright?
Anyway here's a piano improv, if you are wondering why the melody doesn't seem to go any higher, it's because my pinky doesn't reach that high.
https://clyp.it/3orj0omq
>>66229327
>How do you guys get over stage fright?
By performing more and after the performance going over things you did well and pointing out weaknesses of yours that occurred while playing.
Remember that it's okay to mess up sometimes and to push yourself to just keep playing.
The worst thing that happens is when performers stop playing because they made a mistake and then try to correct it afterwards.
Also if you are really nervous before your performance, take 5 minutes, sit down and just focus on your breathing. Take nice deep breaths and forget that you are playing in front of an audience and think of it more like an exercise to improve yourself.
Hope this helps you out and good luck.
>>66229327
good one. If you can, don't regard it as a bothersome duty, where you _have_ to go and entertain the crowd. Instead, tell yourself, that you're going to share something really nice with eveyone and that you're gonna finally be able to show off something you've spent time and effort to prepare.
Positive self-suggestion. Of course you'll always feel different from practice when performing, same here after twenty years of playing my instrument, but going with a positive mindset helps.
>>66229174
Alright, one short fermata before the amen, also changed the voicing before "mortis". Now there's a voice crossing between soprano and alto (soprano goes to a note lower than the previous alto note), which is forbidden, but in that context (death, and a christian prayer), a literall cross(ing) could be meaningful enough to tolerate the voicing mistake, I hope. Also corrected a parallel 8 that I had at "peccatoribus".
>>66229327
>How do you guys get over stage fright?
i don't. the time comes and it's time to walk out there. it's just playing, and judging by that clip you can play.
>>66229532
not to imply it's not scary, it is, there's just nothing to be done except not thinking about it
what happened to the weekly challenge? None today? what about last weeks results, have they already been compiled?
>>66230176
I'm going to post that later today. I'm also going to start compiling the pieces tomorrow and will probably finish on Saturday, so that's an extension if anyone's trying to finish. Later today I'll post everyone's music I've collected just to make sure I haven't missed anyones.
>>66230176
How does the result system work? Was there a poll or how are they measured?
>>66230331
it's not a contest, I'm just going to stick em together. I'll ask you guys for help on deciding the order
I'll begin making a fugue for organ these days, I'd try to make it about the beginning of the gregorian Ave Maria antiphon, although I'm sligthly concerned about it being authentic dorian mode, while I'd like to stick to A maj / F# min as key. Guess I'll just use F# min and treat the Dorian 6th as alteration.
btw, I'm not that fugue guy
>>66230946
good luck man. Good fugues dont come easy
>>66231628
How do you 'describe' chord progressions like this?
d - c# - d - f - d - c# - d - Ab
are lyrics considered /comp/?
How do you write great lyrics? Like what is the next step after lel last syllables rhyme
>>66233227
I'm trying to get better at writing lyrics too. Not sure if comp is the right place, but since there isn't a songwriting thread why not I guess. This sounds lame, but I would really recommend getting a book. I read writing better lyrics and was genuinely amazed by how much I picked up. I don't think I'm that much better yet, but I'm starting to analyze and break down what I like about lyrics in the songs I like, and I'm working on it.
>>66232916
So everything but Ab is a minor chord? In jazz we would call that a constant structure progression (mostly the same chord quality). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99xxR_2FdY
It doesn't really fit in with typical jazz constant structure progressions, but you could describe it as a minor 2nd relationship with a minor 3rd link/bridge, with a tritone cadence to a major chord (breaking the constant structure)
>>66233387
Yes everything is a minor chord. I don't know, it sounds like it would be used in some death metal band or stuff, but I can't exactly describe how to write chord progressions that sound like this. Am I supposed to look at parallel harmony?
>>66233227
Great opera composers are able to capture the feeling of the vocalist/libretto in their music.
And so I think what makes lyrics truly stand out is how well the music accompanies/relates to them.
I know this doesn't answer your question "how do you write great lyrics?", but I just wanted to share my two cents and maybe give some ideas how to proceed.
>>66225751
No offense, but classical music for the guitar might not be your best option if you want to make music that turns heads, unless by 'making music' you mean focusing on flawless performance of music that people already love. Unlike some, I don't think you're too old for that.
Making it as a composer in classical music is extremely tough, specially without social skills, and even if you're the exception, the positive attention isn't great even for the best.
Just saying that it could be a fucked up path littered with frustration. If you ENJOY THE PROCESS, however, by all means, do it.
Hey can I get some advice? I'm not sure what to think of this. I'm not finished yet but I don't know man. It's not classical, it's more of a funk song I guess. But I don't want to post it in /prod/ because I dislike the musical taste usually prominent there. Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.
https://clyp.it/bny2hxiq
>>66233532
Yeah, it could definitely be metal, but also easily jazz with 7th chords. When you're dealing with constant structure, you want to vary your root movement. Let's analyze the root movement in the progression you posted. It goes
(A) m2nd (B) m2nd (C) m3rd (D) m3rd (E) m2nd (F) m2nd (G) dim5th (H, major chord, constant structure broken).
The root motion is very predictable, even with the m3rds breaking it up (because it returns back D minor, it doesn't provide a huge amount of change), which is why it's really important to throw in that completely different root motion, the tritone. It's also important to maintain the constant minor structure until that point, to give that Ab more impact. Writing constant structure progression is a lot of trial and error, but focussing on keeping your root motion purposeful is what helps drive it forward. It's also important to consider your melodic possibilities when writing a chord progression. In the chord progression your posted, you're basically forced to use a pattern based/chromatic/less active melody between the d and c# chord, since your only common key tone is E. So if you wanted something more lyric, you'd have to reconsider.
>>66233974
I'm by no means an expert on funk music so I just want to know if it's a common thing that the brasses(?) play perfect fourths in the melody? It just sounds a bit strange to me.
>>66234085
just some of my old habits. personally i like it, especially when you stack sus chords. that semi-disonance feeling adds a lot of tension. it works in the pentonic scale too in way so, dont know, just grew on me
>>66233974
>I dislike the musical taste usually prominent there.
/prod/ guy here
Please don't hesitate to post things like that in /prod/ i can't bear more dancefloor bleeps and trap
>>66234509
I did. had no choice. as much as I like these threads they still dont have the community /prod/ has. maybe in a year we'll get the bar really rolling.
>>66234051
Well it's kind of Opeth sounding somehow, it's just the kind of chord progression that a guitar would play repeatedly.
>>66233227
Depends on what style of music you're writing. In art music the music tends to illustrate and serve the text (usually some sort of poem used without any changes), while in popular music the lyrics are mostly there to serve and guide the music.
>>66234869
I like what Loreena did to Tennyson's Lady of Shalott, though repetitive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJHA8uzvXS0
>>66233974
Not really my genre, so I don't really have an instinct on what this kind of music actually needs, but I find it incredibly repetitive, if that helps. Any kind of contrast would be nice.
'
>tfw sforzando
>>66233974
Your bass line is not really contributing to the overall groove, it grooves a lot more at that bit after 3:00. Some of the high bass notes you throw in randomly are really not working, they overlap too much with the rest of your groove. Your keys parts work very well together. When you try to increased the intensity towards the end of the song, I think you actually make it more boring. Doing things like laying down quarter notes in your bass part and adding more kick drum makes the groove more homogenous, and it's really not funky.
Your first melody is pretty lame. The inactive parts are boring, and the active parts (0:57 - 1:00) are really awkward rhythmically. Also the scale you're basing it on just doesn't seem to go with the overall feel of the piece. Your second melody works well, I dig it.
I definitely think it needs SOME more harmonic content. Just a short 4 bar sequence you can use a bridge every now and then, to break it up a little more and add to the intensity. You're trying to build the intensity in some spots, and there's only so much you can do with activity, and instruments' registers. Throwing in a different chord progression can really help.
Your sax solo needs some work. definitely needs a lot more places to breath, needs more rhythmic interest and rhythmic contrast. Definitely to look into changing up the notes you're playing too. I feel like the solo you had lasts about a bar and then just repeats what you had. Start off slower, so you can build.
>>66234671
Answered you in prod to get you some attention
>>66233974
I like the groove, but you need to change it up a bit sometimes. It's nice to be consistent, but it gets boring after a while. Definitely a good idea to add another groove with the bass and other rhythm instruments, specially when you change sections (e.g. after a solo).
Other anons also commented on the harmony. I don't have a good ear for that, but it does sound different from the usual dominant 7th chords we heard all the time. Keep it if you want or change it. It's up to you.
>tfw you find a finale file you wrote three years ago with Fb as the key signature and misspellings everywhere.
dude double flats lmao
>>66237496
>with Fb as the key signature
>why.musx
>>66237496
>tfw you go to your parents' place and search around on your old computer with 7 year old pirated sibelius files and there's an accompaniment part that is just 8th notes alternating between E and D double sharp in C major
I don't know...
>>66233227
Actually, I think it would be a good start to compose to already existing /lit/ like poems.
Maybe if we can do a collaboration or a challenge for one week with /lit/ where we give them /comp/s for writing and they give us poems or somethings
>>66237561
Was supposed to me some kind of "mental" etude if I remember correctly. Also I did weird shit with keys back then. I have an unfinished piece with flats on B, A and D and another one with one sharp on A.
Let's just say I was way into Bartok
>>66237602
>Ex
Fucking kek
>>66237606
>/lit/ poems
Haha oh boy. Some of those are the worst things I've ever read in my life. Some are pretty good too, might end up being an interesting challenge. Problem is you would really need to get a singer, and I'm sure everyone here is too much of a loser to get that done.
>>66237651
well, at least flats on B, A and D is just C phrygian dominant, or something else depending on your tonal center. Or like strict F harmonic minor
>>66237773
It was Ionian Augmented. Mode 3 of Harmonic Minor. I was a memer
>>66237822
the truest memes are modes of harmonic major
>improvising with only certain pitch classes available
Some of the most fun I've had improvising. Currently doing D, D#, G#, and A
The best thing about it is testing your melodic skills. (Either that or coming up with an accompaniment figure that somehow isn't ostinato of some sort)
Does the content of your current chord change what notes you put in the melody?
Anyway, why the fuck do I keep starting new ones instead of improving old ones
https://clyp.it/wewzrmxp
https://clyp.it/wewzrmxp
>>66239313
>>66239349
>>66237888
Why?
How do you get inspired? My whole comp life has been extreme highs of productivity and then extreme lows of thinking everything I've done is shit and how I will never meet my own expectations or be like the composers I really admire. When I am not feeling good/inspired and try to write stuff anyway, it does not feel right.
What do you do in these situations?
>>66239492
I get treated for bipolar disorder.
>>66239492
The way I like to think about it is that writing shit will still make you better
You need to make a lot of turds before you shit gold
Also, go back and improve/expand old works
>>66239550
This sounds like reasonable advice. Sometimes it is hard to stay optimistic though
>>66239522
That is a little extreme haha, don't you think so?
>>66239313
Yes. For instance, you wouldn't put a C in the melody over a G chord because the B and C would clash together.
>>66237606
A /comp/ wordsetting challenge would be a good idea. Choose some actual poetry or WW1 journals or something. I would avoid /lit/ personally when there's so much great material out there already.
Wordsetting really is one of the great arts of composing. If you can set words to music and underpin the meaning of the words with your harmony / music, while still having an interesting (and singable) melodic line. It takes quite a bit of practice to get right.
I guess we should specify a solo song more than a mass type setting. write a 4 part latin mass could be a later challenge, using just the words "gloria in excelsis deo"
>>66239492
Listen to great music, watch tutorials on harmony or advanced counterpoint or something. Study scores. Try to write something you've never written before like a fugue or polonaise or a solo flute piece.
You can't force inspiration but you can still do comp things while you wait
Poem suggestion - first canto of Dante's Inferno
https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/inferno-canto-i
The advantage is that the challenge can be extended to the other cantos later.
This link is more readable and contains footnotes: http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/dante/chap1.html
![51GXfV3F4rL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TtdTPpK.jpg "51GXfV3F4rL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg")
I NEED THIS BOOK
>>66240171
People often want to buy books and shit, but in my experience, people read as procrastination from composition.
>>66239313
Generally it does. When it doesn't it's probably a suspension/retardation.
Or some crazy polytonality is going on, or you're doing something else weird like that.
>>66240171
Kinda looks like someone loading a gun. If I was on /vr/ I would photoshop it so say "demonic experience" and be a picture of doomguy loading a shotgun
>>66240247
>carry three books on composition with me at any given time
>number of pieces completed can be counted on one hand
Maybe this is more appropriate for /classical/, but I'd like to get some list of obligatory listenings (inspired by that comment about listening to great music). I've been playing for 13 years, but I never actually listened too much classical music. Pretty strange. Actually, for some reason I generally don't listen to that much music. It's usually a couple of songs/pieces on youtube, and then I do only that. I absolutely can't listen to anything while doing something else. I didn't even listen to much works from Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, Mozart etc. outside from those that I played.
>>66240596
Anything specific or particular you're interested in writing? Otherwise I'll just find that one image from /classical/ and post it here.
>>66240596
start with scaruffi's list, as it's pretty standard
>>66239313
for reading material on what melody notes to use over a given chord in a contemporary context, I always recommend book 3 on this page, the chapters on chord scales. http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
>>66240747
Will check that out.
>>66240717
The picture would be fine too.
But actually, I've recently been trying to find some good gregorian chants. I heard one absolutely beautiful recording but didn't know what it was and couldn't understand enough words to try googling it. I want to listen to more of the ones that are rich in harmony. Many of them are more on the monotonous side, but I occasionaly find a treasure and it is some of the most beautiful music ever.
I only remember some of the verses...
>tibi omnes sangeri
>seraphis
>sanctus dominus ... sabaot
I know this probably means shit because those are pretty generic words but still.
>>66240747
Will check that out.
>>66240717
The picture would be fine too.
But actually, I've recently been trying to find some good gregorian chants. I heard one absolutely beautiful recording but didn't know what it was and couldn't understand enough words to try googling it. I want to listen to more of the ones that are rich in harmony. Many of them are more on the monotonous side, but I occasionaly find a treasure and it is some of the most beautiful music ever.
I only remember some of the verses...
>tibi omnes sangeri
>seraphis
>sanctus dominus ... sabaot
I know this probably means shit because those are pretty generic words but still.
>>66241220
>>66241227
Oh fugg.
>>66240596
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNwk9_bbr0E
This guy does great and unintrusive analyses of a lot of Beethoven piano sonatas, a couple Mozart piano sonatas, and also the Legend of Zelda theme. I figure piano sonatas (and string suites) are among the more vanilla multi-movement works, and Beethoven's anything sonatas are all great listening material.
In regards to art songs since they've been mentioned recently:
Der Erlkonig by Schubert is easily required listening. If you have perfect pitch this recording will be slightly annoying though:
https://youtu.be/juNxRYBWB9g?t=1m46s
And I can't find an in-depth video analysis of it, but Faure's Apres un reve is also required. Faure in general is great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMKyTAe6yeM
Regarding string quartets, Dvorak's American string quartet is considered one of the best, fairly accurately in my opinion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_rwtDlUXA
Finally, it's not an obligatory listen, it's not a very well known piece, and I kind of find an excuse to post this every thread, but this string suite by Janacek really is lovely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQLD_rPWXsE
>>66241227
>>66241285
>not one of my links is choral music
So by gregorian chant do you mean masses in general, or specifically the medieval unaccompanied/parallel-fifths plainchant sort of thing?
>>66241285
>>66241397
Cool, thanks.
I'm not sure, probably both.
Actually, stuff like this:
https://youtu.be/enIczFUEzAk
I absolutely love this.
>>66241527
Btw, actually, this is great, but when I was talking about that one piece I am trying to find, it was without instrumentation, and it had much more harmony.
Are "epic movie songs" hacks? They always seemed so to me. Like Two Steps From Hell and such.
>>66242171
[spoiler]i like Two Steps from Hell[/spoiler]
but yeah, its pretty chessy
>>66242218
Yeah, I mean, they have some nice works, but I cringe a little bit if I start analyzing what I'm hearing.
>>66239934
While I'm all for Latin masses, I figure it might be fun to write music to different religions. Maybe something on a Hebrew or Arabian text!
I like writing music but realize I don't have a large classical vocabulary. What essential classical/baroque/etc. should I listen to?
I like Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Hindemith, Debussy and Brahms
*
Regarding art songs, I'd really suggest text in a language the composer knows at least as a second language. It's important to know all the connotations and weight of each word when wordsetting.
Highly metrical, formalist poetry is probably easiest to work with, also. Personally I might recommend Robert Frost or Tennyson. I actually did one with Tennyson's "Break, Break, Break".
>>66242362
Simple but a bit charming. I like it. Hard to judge it with that grating musescore soundfont though.
>>66242433
>Medieval
Machaut, Perotin, Leonin, Hildegard von Bingen and Minnesang
>Renaissance
Monteverdi and Gesualdo
>Baroque
Bach, Handel, Scarlatti, Telemann, Vivaldi, Purcell
>Classical
Mozart, Haydn
>Romantic
Tchaik, Chopin, Faure, Wagner, Brahms, Liszt, Mahlah,
>Modern
Prokofiev, Schönberg, Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Rach, Bartok, Scriabin
>>66244708
poor beethoven
>>66244876
Oh fuck. I forgot to put him because I didn't know if he was Classical or Romantic. Schubert is a must too.
>>66244946
And Schumann
>>66244708
>Tchaik, Chopin, Faure, Wagner, Brahms, Liszt, Mahlah
What do people see in Liszt?
Also, I'd like to add Sibelius, while pretending you just forgot to write Beethoven.
>>66245231
see if this throws some light on the matter for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=962lHSUXxI8
>>66245231
I personally get nothing out of Liszt's music. I really get nothing from most Romantics anyways I can't stand Wagner. They are, however very influential composers that are a must hear.
Also I'm a huge fan of Sibs 4th Symphony conducted by Vanska. He makes Am the most interesting key somehow.
>>66245523
>He makes Am the most interesting key somehow.
Is such a thing possible?
>>66244708
>Faure in Romantic
>Debussy, Ravel in modern
Seems kind of off.
Also
>Rach in modern
This seems weird to me for some reason, though I know it's right.
>>66246358
Debussy and Ravel share nothing with other romantics. Similarly, Faure has nothing in common with Modernists. Rach could be argued into Romantic though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATT-1vmZZAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEgWlR9xcdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnKFIp7CahY
Stuff like this can't even be argued to be romantic. Too much harmonic exploration.
>>66246613
I mean, personally I'd put Debussy, Ravel and Faure into their own category. I guess Faure would be a case like Beethoven or Schubert, though, if you did so.
Does anyone know electronic renderings of art music that sound better than Switched-On Bach and Tomita's Debussy fuckery?
What does /comp/ think of my piano etude?
https://clyp.it/3qpxqba1
>>66247668
This is literally Lamar's "Alright"
>>66247792
What if I am literally Lamar?
>>66247833
Yeah, yeah, whatever
Anyways, your, um, remix I guess, is very constant. Turntabalism is your friend, but your not using it. You need to take individual samples and distort them, then put them back into the song. Add pauses, repeat samples, play them over other samples, dub samples, et cetera. This will make the song less recognizable. Especially at about 2:30, you can really tell what the song is. The dums and bass give it away too, distort those alot more.
>>66248048
What if I haven't posted any music?
>>66214091
Can someone explain how a keyboard works with sheet music, oike i knos how to read it. But i dont understand how the fingering works or how to translate the notes to the actual keyboard
>>66248268
You have to figure out the best fingering for yourself.
>>66248268
The clef will tell you what note to play. Middle C is a specific line on each clef, and refers to a specific C on the keyboard. The fingering is your own choice; whatever feels good
Hey sorry if this gets asked a lot, but do you guys know where to get free complete scores for jazz/big band ensembles?
>>66248048
Dude I was just fucking memeing lol. I can post my real Etude if you really want
>>66248315
Can you provide pictures or a source to continue reading? I have a keyboard and i know where the keys are on the keyboard but i dont understand how to apply it. Like would a middle C be the same note as a C on a guitar, where you would put your finger on the second string, first fret? Also what do you mean by a specific line on each clef?
Hey, wondering if anyone could help me out with modal scales and how to apply them. I understand the basic principle of moving the root note of a scale up without changing the accidentals, etc. (btw i'm using a guitar as my learning instrument, I'm sure it'd be kinda different on saxophone, my other instrument.)
So, let's say I've got a real basic progression like C, Ami, Dmi, G and wanted to apply a dorian scale to it going off the root chord, to solo off of, write melodies, etc.
- a) do I use the C or D dorian scale? iirc, the D dorian uses the C shape but is shifted up a whole tone. Or would I use the Bb scale and shift that up to a C?
- b) how does this apply to the other modes as the climb up a scale? do I always start with the root chord's scale shape and just move the root up? or do i move the scale down until the root? (e.g. do i use a G myx or a C myx?)
- c) this is prolly personal preference, but would you learn a new shape for each mode, or would you just keep the original scale shape and mentally move the root up?
I think that's coherent. Unless i'm totally wrong on how the modes are named in relation to their original scale, but i don't think i am...
>>66248674
Middle C is a very specific pitch. There are 8 Cs on an 88 key keyboard, and Middle C is the 4th one.
Music notation tells you what notes to play by putting dots on lines and spaces. Clefs tell you what notes those lines and spaces represent.
Pic related shows where middle C is on the bass and treble clef.
Read this to learn how to read music, what clefs are, what the lines and spaces are, et cetera.
http://www.learnhowtoreadsheetmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/How-To-Read-Sheet-Music-in-7-Easy-Lessons.pdf
>>66248760
use D dorian, the Dorian Mode of the C Major scale (C shifted up one step)>do I always start with the root chord's scale shape and just move the root up? or do i move the scale down until the root? (e.g. do i use a G myx or a C myx?)
Always move up the root scale.
>this is prolly personal preference, but would you learn a new shape for each mode, or would you just keep the original scale shape and mentally move the root up?
Personally, I learn it in relation to the root scale.
Is moving in tritones or playing in the whole tone scale the secret to sounding evil?
>>66248914
thanks. that's what i figured. but it seems kinda weird playing that way. like i'm still kinda playing c major. i dunno, maybe i just have to be more rigid with the shifted root.
>>66249112
neither
>>66248760
If your chords ads C - Am - Dm - G then your Dm needs to function as the i chord. If you play D Dorian over those chords it will just sound like a major melody due to the fact that the harmony is major. Try to listen to irish folk music or Geirr Tveitt (who uses modal writing quite a lot) to get a hang of how to apply it
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGyPuey-1Jw
This really is a meme example but listen how the Em functions as the i chord. The song is essentially i - VII - i - IV - VII - i (if you use DEFGABC)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb43-Q70olM
This one is mixolydian and it too is mostly I - VII (if you use DEF#GABC) with the occasional IV chord.
A lot of modal music tends to veer away from the V due to the fact that the V usually isn't dominant.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpLb5e--rSQ
Here is an example of modal writing in classical. I don't have sheets so you'll just have to listen for the changes yourself.
>>66249112
A lot goes into writing evil. m2s, tone clusters, m(maj7)s, chromatic mediants, harmonic minor, melodic minor etc.
>>66248674
Yes, there is a specific C designated as "middle C". On the treble clef, this is the C usually written below the staff, with its own line.
Even if you don't have a good ear, you can probably tell which C's are higher or lower, so if your guitar is properly tuned, it is on the second string first fret. Just try to match this on your keyboard, and it will be middle C.
Keep in mind though that the guitar is a transposing instrument, meaning it's usually written an octave higher.
Help a newbie: what does your ideal music composition curriculum look like?
finding middle c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACJjSRqveqM
>>66249464
I found your middle c and composed it sensually
Oooh, those eights! you screamed as I shoves my harmonies right into you
"how could this get even better!?" you gasp
"watch"
[sick counterpoint flute rifts]
"w-woah!!"
*composes sensually*
>>66249533
*sforzandos*
>>66249533
not enough dissonance, you're far too gentle and therefore unexciting
>>66249194
alright, so the success of using a modal scale depends partly on the chord progression, it seems.
in you're first example, the root is Em, so i'd use F# dorian, and in the 2nd, it's D, so i'd use A myxo?
Also, a side question: when describing chords/progressions, the VII is flatted? I mean I assumed that it was based off the major scale, but a E7 uses a D and not an Eb. Likewise, in you're progression it goes from E -> D / D -> C
any explanation for that?
although, i suppose it makes sense why an Emaj7 uses the Eb, then.
>>66249578
babycakes, I can be rough as well
*modulates to minor*
"your such a dark misunderstood artist!!"
"watch this! "
>starts pressing le dark keys
"woaah!"
>an art major watches from the distance
>"I wan 2be misunderstood tooo!!"
>starts composing atonal music
>>66249664
No. The first examples KEY is D but the TONIC is Em and therefore the MODE is E Dorian.
In the second one the KEY is G but the TONIC is D and therefore the MODE is D Mixolydian.
Also I don't know the rules regarding Roman Numeral analysis for modal pieces. I guess you could do it according to what it would be if the tonic was major, but if you did that you'd have flats everywhere. Like something in Phrygian would be i - bII - i - bIII - V - i. That's why I establish that it's modal beforehand and just do RNA as if the mode was a key.
>>66249112
The whole tone scale is one of the least 'evil' sounding scales out there, it's too consonant with all its M2s.
Really, though, evil is simply too subjective to describe theoretically. Although there are commonalities in 'evil'-sounding music, you can too easily write a counterexample for any of them.
I mean, here's Jupiter from the Planets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz0b4STz1lo
A large chunk of these joyous melodies in this very jubilant movement are in minor, or at least in aeolian mode.
You do have the right idea with dissonant intervals and strange scales. If you listen to Mars, the easily-recognizable theme contains an augmented fourth and a diminished sixth. In the right context anything can be made to be menacing, though, and in the right context those intervals can be quite touching instead.
>>66244708
>Renaissance
>Monteverdi and Gesualdo
Monteverdi is more early baroque, and Gesualdo isn't really representative of Renaissance music, even though he is VERY cool. The big ones from Renaissance to check out would be Palestrina, Josquin, Tallis, Victoria, Ockeghem, Lassus, Byrd and Taverner. Fayrfax is also excellent.
This piece is pretty much the high point of Renaissance composition imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRfF7W4El60
>>66247253
There is art music written for electronic instruments like Stockhausen's Kontake and babbits RCA pieces. Composers like Tristan Murail also incorporate electronic parts in their pieces. There's plenty of vocalized version of classical music, if you're into that kind of thing...
>>66249440
Get given assignments to write music. Get that music played by real performers, analyze what went right and what went wrong, and then do it again in a different form. In the meantime study scores of the great composers and learn all their techniques. Getting real performers to play your music is essential imo to becoming a composer.
>>66250033
Lmao thanks for correcting me on that. Renaissance is my least known era.
>>66249811
oh, ok. i think i was looking at it backwards.
so, if i've got this right(ish), the second example:
- is in the myxolydian mode
- Key is G
- due to the key, being G, and the properties of the mode, makes the tonic D (a fifth above G)
- Song's tonic is D, by which generally what chord the song revolves around, despite being in the key of G?
- Improvisation with D myx, being a mode of the Gmaj scale, is appropriate, because the tonic is D.
- usage of C chord acts as a VII because the root is D, and not as a IV (which i think it'd be in relation to G major)
So you take a key, apply the mode, and base the song off what the mode does to the key, rather than applying a modal scale to an existing chord progression (unless you want to reverse engineer whatever modal scale would have done to you're key). So, say i want a song to be key of A, lydian mode, my tonic would be D?
Sorry if i'm being completely retarded and flip-flopping terms and shit, modal theory is really a head trip for me. Thanks a ton for helping me out, tho! Already understand more, I think.
>11:59 PM
>tfw remember the variations are due today
Well, I did an accompaniment for the theme at least.
>>66250425
Yes, you've got it man. Inspiring me to try my hand at something in locrian right now! Using an online piano because mines out for repair.
>>66250597
If the challenge was switching keys I can submit something. Or is this for NMH?
>>66250632
NMH, switching keys was last week.
>>66250672
Ok nevermind then. I'll probably submit it eventually anyways.
Where is the compweekly dude anyways
>>66250632
sweet! thanks again for helping me figure that out! I'm totally gonna try and experiment with some different modes now that i have a grasp of the basics. good luck with that online piano.
This week was fun, hope the variations challenge gets a repeat after a few months or something.
>>66250597
Hurriedly put it onto Noteworthy (it was basically already finished), because I knew it was going to keep me up all night anyways.
https://clyp.it/izcexyzr
Putting it here as well as emailing it.
>>66251877
sweet
>>66249718
>*modulates to minor*
>"your such a dark misunderstood artist!!"
iktf
>>66249718
Reminds me of the time I took lyrics suggested by 4chan and set a mass to them
>>66253009
Might as well post the set. It was never finished...
>>66253032
Twerking yolo based was actually the 2nd movement, not the first
>>66253051
And the last part
Just played on this thing, feels bad knowing you will never own a nice grand.
>>66253751
u elton john's roadie or smth
>>66253751
>nice
>Bright red
ummm, I think we might have different taste. I'm sure it sounds pretty good but I'm a bit of a traditionalist.
>>66253788
Nah i was the guy feeling anxious yesterday because I had to perform today..
>>66253827
so, did you die?
>>66253848
No, but now I got a comfy wallpaper
>>66253986
it would annoy me to stare at an unattainable object of desire
>>66254051
Well sometimes you gotta choose. Down payment for a nice, I don't know.. A nice car? Maybe a Lexus? Or a BMW?
Or spend all that money on a grand?
>>66254099
yup, who needs a home anyway
>>66253032
>>66253051
My sides
>>66254124
I mean, the piano comes with a bench doesn't it? And if it rains you can hide under the grand piano, should be large enough and pretty comfy.
For 50k, you even get the struggling homeless musician look, I would say it's a pretty good bargain.
>>66254171
Forgot pic
>>66229327
Really hope the performance worked out well for you.
I loved this piece, by the way. Is there any way I can hear more?
>>66254213
I went OK I guess, luckily I didn't screw up any parts majorly. But damn the piano felt so good. The touch was excellent, and the sound was so rich, unlike my Yamaha upright.
I have one more here, glad you liked that one. https://clyp.it/ycgihko3
>>66247668
>https://clyp.it/3qpxqba1
even though I understand all the acoustics behind it, it's always going to freak me out how you can hear the words even though it's only piano midi.
>>66248760
If you have the progression of C, Am, Dm, G, you're not going to be using dorian the whole time. You will be using:
C ionian
A aeolian
D dorian
G mixolydian
Which you will recognize is all C. The philosophy is though, that if you recognize your chord scale you will understand your tendency tones better. You won't play the note c with emphasis in G mixolydian, because it clashes with the chord and scale. The times when you really need to know your modes are when the chords go non diatonic. This is in Bb major from Stella by Starlight
E-7b5 A7 C-7 F7 F-7 Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ab7.
So you would use something like
E locrian
A altered
C dorian
F mixo
F dorian
Bb mixo
Eb lydian
Ab lydian b7
Basically you assign each chord a scale (or at least you do at the beginner level). You should ideally stop thinking as modes as rearrangements of scales and just learn each mode, as you've learnt each scale. Both theoretically and on your instrument.
Okay so here's the sheet music I've collected from the thread. I also have what was emailed to me. bls email me midi files if you haven't [email protected] so i don't have to input everything myself
i'm a slightly self-taught producer cunt who's a complete pleb regarding modern classical and i'm not afraid to admit it (my knowledge pretty much goes as far as arvo part, stockhausen, cage, reich, partch, darreg, etc..) , but nonetheless i ask the humble PEOPLE of /comp/ to help me out in finding and studying the structure of classical pieces, things like variation/chords/themes, i can make a decent enough melody or rhythm, but i've been having a hard time turning into a complete track, so maybe analyzing some famous classical works could help me out.
>>66255699
no idea why "people" was in caps lock but yeah, to put it shortly i'd just appreciate it if someone could give me some insight in how a piece should be structured, what's giving me most trouble is variations, other than raising or lowering an element by one octave i haven't got that many ideas on how to do this.
>>66255744
Check out schoenberg's "Fundamentals of musical composition"
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>>66255990
will do, thanks.
Bach is love bach is life
bach is love
baby don't hurt me
I dare you to find a more generic or cheesy piano progression
https://clyp.it/4w5tzb00
>Tonal Answers
>Every Cadence is a half cadence
>Chromatic sequences
>Starts in 3/4
https://clyp.it/r0ukyb2c
my kind of fugue. Still WIP though.
I really need to study more Renaissance scores to see how they handle half cadences / phrygian cadences. You can never tell they're coming but when they hit, man it sounds so right.
The Morales Officum Defunctorum has some great usage of this, There's a good one at 20:43:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2PZFB-27hM
And one of the best from 22:00 - 22:14
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #3 METERS July 8st - July 15rd
Compose a short piece (around 1 to 2 minutes) with three distinct meters in any instrumentation. Treat these time signatures as meters, rather than just throwing in a different time signature for a bar or two for phrasing purposes. Consider making your meters distinct by considering whether the time signatures you choose are duple or triple; simple, compound or complex/irregular.
BONUS CHALLENGE: Make at least one section of your piece polyrhythmic/polymetric
Post WIPs, talk about things to consider when changing meters, post pieces that have strong metric changes, post polyrhythmic pieces.
>>66257779
>around 1 to 2 minutes
>to 2 minutes
Oh thank God. The minute limit was seriously driving me up a wall. Well, less so with the last one, but still.
>>66257779
how the fuck do i know whether something is 6/8 or 3/4. this always confuses me
>>66258228
So of course, you have the same number of 8th notes, but the difference comes down to the way they're divided. 6/8 is compound duple, and 3/4 is simple triple. Compound and simple mean you divide each beat into 3 or 2 respectively. (complex/irregular/odd means a time signature with a mixture of 3's and 2's). Duple means two clear beats in a bar, triple means three clear beats in a bar.
Basically,
6/8 is counted as ONE-AND-UH TWO-AND-UH
3/4 is counted as ONE-AND TWO-AND THREE-AND
3/4 is often so fast that it feels like one in a bar, so you would be counting it as ONE-AND-UH ONE-AND-UH ONE-AND-UH, and that's the hardest time to distinguish between 3/4 and 6/8. Honestly there it can come down to style. If you're listening to R&B or rock, and you hear KICK-and-uh SNARE-and-uh KICK-and-uh SNARE-and-uh, then that's 6/8. Even though you might hear something similar (without the back beat of course), in a similar tempo in Jazz, it would be identified as 3/4 because of tradition (coming from tunes like My Favourite Things/ Someday my prince) and because of the swung 8th note patterns.
In classical, you can usually distinguish by how strong the primary beat is. You should feel the 3/4 beat as STRONG-weak-weak STRONG-weak-weak, and in 6/8 it would feel like VERYSTRONG-weak-weak LESSSTRONG-weak-weak
>>66257779
Does anyone have tips on escape the
"ONE two AND three FOUR FIVE"
for 5/4? I don't want to sound like take five or mission impossible but seems like everything else sounds weird...
>>66258539
A youtuber I liked recently answered your question, they provide an example of how they handled it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrB3stnm8Xk
I also wanted to get around the 5/4 clave, so I did this by using it, but using it over a groove that's actually in 5/2. this is a demo and I'm not really done with writing the song, but you can get the idea. https://clyp.it/szcz2h03
>>66258539
You just have to immerse yourself more in other variants and get to _understand_ them. Currenly listening to a song which is divided like 4+1. It feels like one long exhalation and a short intense inhalation. Really weird, but also gives the song a kind of heavy feeling, like you're breathing very deeply.
>>66258713
>>66258539
I didn't really answer the general idea of your question though. I would think about what the typical 5/4 clave achieves, and why it's so effective it's become cliche.
It clearly defines beat one.
It drives the rhythms forward by putting accents on beats and by make the grouping "top heavy" (the larger grouping of 3 before the shorter grouping of 2).
It emphasizes the odd meter nature, by having distinct groupings of 3 and 2. You get a 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 pattern.
Neely subverts a lot of these things, he doesn't define beat 1, he doesn't accent any particular beats, and he takes emphasis away from the odd nature of the meter by playing "5 on the floor". In that way, it feels really natural.
So again, think about what the 5/4 grouping achieves and how, and what parts of that you want to emphasize/subvert/do in a different way
>>66258837
bls post. guessing it might be Modern Man but that's kind of 4+4+1 so probably not.
>>66257779
Not sure I understood the challenge, you basically want us to use three different file signatures - and not just for transitions. So, as an example, if I start a piece in 4/4, then do a section in 3/4, then conclude with a section in 9/8, that would be alright? And that poly rhythmic thing means having tuplets vs regular rhythm, like 2 vs 3, or 3 vs 4 and the like? And the polymeric thing means that different voices/staffs have different time signatures at the same time, like 3/4 and 9/8 at the same time?
>>66258853
They way I interpret it is 4 and 5 as two upbeats that kind of "makes sure" you don't miss the 1 by really preparing/announcing it before it hits. It makes it easy for even a layman to follow. The 3+3 subdivision is a contrast to the very on-beat 4 and 5, further emphasizing the two upbeats. The 3+3 also have "carrying-power" (I'm sorry for using all these personal heuristics), as off-beat accents tendentially are better at driving the song forward with it's instability, while on-beat accents stabilize the rhythm again. 3+3 is unstable, while the 4 and 5 stable. You get this cycle of dispersion and re-gathering of the stability. I hope this makes sense.
>>66258881
https://youtu.be/BS_R5cHDFNY?t=2m57s
Listen from 2:57 if the link doesn't take you there automatically. The songs stabilizes at a 5/4 beat a few seconds after that.
>tfw struggling with the challenge
https://clyp.it/zlq4fli4
don't try to syncopate in 7/8 lads
>>66259037
>The songs stabilizes at a 5/4 beat a few seconds after that.
Sorry, I was wrong. It's 3+2.
>>66258941
>if I start a piece in 4/4, then do a section in 3/4, then conclude with a section in 9/8
Yeah, that's basically it. If your piece was mostly all in 4/4 but you have a bar of 3/4 here, and two bars of 9/8 there, then that wouldn't be alright.
Polyrhythms and polymeters are basically the same but on different scales. Polyrhythms are two different subdivisions of the same time value occurring at the same time, so things like triplets against duplets, four dotted quarter notes over 3/4. Polymetric stuff is overlapping phrase groupings. So let's say you're squarely in 4/4 but there's an accompaniment part playing (all quarter notes) C D E C D E C D E C D E, it kinds of slides over the bar lines, and it'll sync up after 3 bars. If you sped this up a lot, it would essentially sound like a 6 against 4 polyrhythm, so you can use the terms interchangeably and the distinction I have drawn are not set in stone or standardized
>>66259081
I like this so far, it feels really natural
>>66259345
Thanks man. Every other odd time sig thing I've ever done has been guitar so this is a fun change.
>tfw skrillex is a better piano composer than you are and he's not even trying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jez-i9u2g1g
>>66259136
reminds me alot of Bruhns Great Prelude and Fugue, begins in 4/4, goes to 15/16, then 4/4 again, then 12/8 etc.
And that one is early baroque!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u5nrV1IRdo
If I were to tackle the challenge, I'd probably do an organ toccata in the Stylus Phantasticus, too.
>>66260254
>dude romanticism style piano for popular music lmao
i hate these kind of covers
>>66260335
>romanticism
It's not even romanticism, just contemporary pop.
>>66260410
the smashy-smashy fffs, the phrasing and the overall structure is comparable with the worst kind of romantic music
>>66260254
I can do that, hold my beer
>>66260448
Are you thinking Chopin Ballade No 1?
https://youtu.be/Ce8p0VcTbuA?t=4m24s
Or Rachmaninov Prelude?
https://youtu.be/3IlDxUyQVB0?t=2m25s
>>66260530
how would you express the sound of a colossal robot windshieldfucking a small truck as it gleefully skates around town at dusk?
>>66261016
er. I don't know.
https://clyp.it/zlw4rx0d
Lads I think my piece for the challenge is coming along.
>>66261297
would enjoy as an anime opening theme
>>66261359
That makes me want to rewrite it fuck.
>>66261385
kekkers
>>66261297
Sounds cool. Like some Japanese video game BGM.
>>66261297
the ostinato and the Dorian scale kinda makes it sound like game music, but if that's not what you had in mind, what did you actually have in mind?
Anyways, I think it works well within its own context fwiw
Anyways, about the challenge. When talking about polymetrics, are we to use equal-length measures, like in pic attached?
>>66261637
or unequal-length measures?
>>66261670
also, what about compound meters?
>>66261637
>>66261670
so the distinction between polyrhtyhm and polymeter is not something that is 100% agreed upon. I call the first one, equal-length measures a poly rhythm (specifically, 10 against 9), and I'd call the uneven measure length polymetric. Some people I know don't use the term polymetric, and would call the first one something like duration based polyrhtyhm, and the second one unit based polyrhythm. That's why I said either or for the challenge, you can use either one.
>>66261703
I'm not sure if this is different in other schools of thought, but to me a compound meter is a meter with divisions of 3 (6/8, 9/8 etc), and I would call those complex meters. For the purpose of the challenge, a complex meter would count as one meter.
>>66261579
>>66261596
I actually didn't really have a feeling in mind when writing this. I usually write, then about a few measures in get the feel and go from there. I've had multiple people tell me I should score games instead of compose "regular" classical music. At least people are enjoying what I'm writing on here.
I'll keep y'all updated and post the sheets probably tomorrow or Saturday
>>66261792
Roger on the poly thing.
>compound
I was just using the terminology of my notation software. Whenever there is a plus sign in the time sig, it says compound.
>>66261871
>terminology of my notation software
I can understand why they say that, but it's a little confusing on their part.
>>66262018
that's an anglophone thing. Neither german nor french music terminology have a specified name for those 6/8, 12/8 etc. meters, only in English it's got its own name. Probably explains why my software, which is based in the NL, uses the "compound" in the germanic sense.
Something else that I've learned.
>>66262497
oh, and Italian has a name for it, Tempo Composti.
>>66262497
>>66262693
that's very interesting, thanks for the info
>>66262693
aand, have to correct myself again, in the germanic realm, there's a thing equal to compound meter, but it's called compound time signature.
And compound time sigs that have double and triple elements (3 + 3 + 2) / 8 would be called an irregular time signature.
Dang, and I thought I had these basics down.
>he doesnt use the orchestra sound theme on windows
So I'm pretty familiar with creating structural cadences in diatonicism and standard functional harmony. I also have at least a beginner's understanding of how Schoenberg and the like would create structure and form out of atonality. But how do I structure my piece when it flirts with functional harmony so unfaithfully?
Even the motif I originally came up with has a 'harmonic progression' (all dyads, since it's solo cello) like so:
>a: V6/V i64 #vi° imM7 (i)
The #vi° to imM7 is basically just the phrase model being cut short here - the melodic line moves from F# to G#, but the (implied) harmony skips straight to the tonic, resulting in a imM7. The melodic line then awkwardly resolves itself.
Anyways, in this piece a V - i would just sound weird. How else can I create structure? Alternatively, how do I make the V - i sound more natural?
>>66260254
http://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/skrillex/scary-monsters-and-nice-sprites
Can any of you who know a little theory comment on the merits of this guy as a composer?
https://www.youtube.com/c/sophiamusik/videos
He has been linked to Cicada 3301, but nothing conclusive has come out of it. Can you detect musical clues?
