Art music VS pop by black men with trumpets
Why are they even compared?
i don't know, autists like to argue about it
but of course jazz is better anyway
>>66164446
One is for autist, the other is for people with souls.
>>66164446
at least jazz artists actually perform their own music
>>66164446
Rich European men from the past making prinky-dink music vs. poor black men making boop-a-da-shoop-a-da music
>>66164613
>what are standards
>>66164613
>Genre built on the idea of standards
>>66164679
>built on the idea of standards
they are both considered western music
Classical music is so overrated it's not even funny.
>>66164761
How so? In terms of composition and performance it is far more advanced and skillful than any other form of music, and has been much longer than any other form of music as well.
>compositions written for rich people about things said rich people wanted to hear
>art music
You lot are no better than born in le wrong generation faggots desu
>>66164446
>pop
You don't know what this means.
>>66164833
the rich people didn't even know what they wanted to hear, it was the composers who invented it
also what is wrong with being rich?
>>66164880
>the rich people didn't even know what they wanted to hear, it was the composers who invented it
wow do you have historical evidence for such a claim? Because all the books I read say you're wrong.
>>66164914
I doubt you have actually read books about music if that is what you believe.
>>66164446
The best of jazz music is some of the closest pop music has ever gotten to rivaling the complexity and level nuance of art music.
Since it's invention, jazz has had an influence on modern composers like Gershwin, Stravinsky, Bernstein, etc. and there is a long history of jazz musicians taking influence from art music composers like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Bill Evans, etc. so it's not as if the two are entirely separate from each other and for the most part there is a mutual respect between artists from both fields.
>>66164446
First of all "art music" isn't a qualifier, it's just a term for any music which is distributed via notation. This already shows your ignorance.
Second, Western art music may have more compositional complexity with its use of counterpoint et al, but it's in timbral complexity that jazz shows its superiority due to its lack of strict tonality and use of improvisation – which, with the notable exception of free jazz, is actually based on some pretty strict rules. Which is natural since it was built on an expanded on the standards of the late Romantic and Impressionist eras.
>>66164826
shit's boring tho
>>66164826
Music of today is much more advanced than classical combining the concepts harmony, rhythm and melody.
>>66165052
How? I find it amazing. Popular music is so basic and predictable by comparison.
>>66165055
Lol this is not true at all. Classical is still far ahead of popular music.
>>66164446
Agreed. Why is jazz always put on the same level as classical music?
Its something I don't understand. Music snobs lump Jazz and Classical together as the "superior" music as opposed to Popular music. Classical I understand- it has lasted all these years for a reason. But Jazz, I don't get it. Jazz has a lot more in common with Popular music- it just sounds like a bunch of musicians got together and can't decide on which song to play. Also, little emotion in Jazz.
I have nothing against Jazz musicians- I do agree it takes skill and all of that. But why is it considered an "elevated" form of music? This is true in most colleges and universities even- they have a Jazz Department. They do not have a Country and Western department. Its complete opposite of Classical music to my ears. I don't hate Jazz, to me its nice for background music at a coffee shop or bookstore, but to sit down and listen to it , no thanks!
In Classical there is more emotion usually, although I don't understand I-talian Operas very well. But I see why people respect Classical music as a higher level of music- and I don't take offense at that. But why Jazz?
>>66165089
>its nice for background music at a coffee shop or bookstore
what a pleb
>>66165089
>Jazz has a lot more in common with Popular music- it just sounds like a bunch of musicians got together and can't decide on which song to play. Also, little emotion in Jazz.
The fucking shit I read on here I swear
>>66165089
It's because jazz is dead.
Once the few remaining relevant rock bands are gone they'll teach Jimi Hendrix and Sonic Youth in schools
and only old pretentious people will make rock
>>66164446
We all know New Wave is far better than Classical or Jazz though
also this is a new wave thread now
>>66165089
>little emotion in jazz
you absolute fucking pleb
>>66165089
Also you're dumb
nigga probably thinks kenny g is jazz
>>66165189
fuck me in the ass
>>66165178
>jazz is dead.
it's not
>they'll teach Jimi Hendrix and Sonic Youth in schools
lmao
>>66165203
>it's not
yes it is
>>66165201
I GUESS, YOU'RE JUST WHAT I NEEDED
>>66165079
No it isn't; it's far behind modern music. "Classical" music can't be advanced.
Music has evolved into something more complex that classical composers would struggle to grasp
>>66165227
if you actually think that then you don't know shit about jazz
it may not be culturally relevant in the mainstream anymore but a lot of good, boundary-pushing jazz is still being made every year
why don't you branch out from P4K and Fantano once in a while?
>>66165261
this has got to be b8
>>66165089
>little emotion in Jazz.
I don't even like jazz very much but this statement is mind-blowingly retarded.
>>66165261
Except they're actually on the cutting edge you fuck. See: minimalism, spectralism, computer music, etc. Western Art Music is alive and well. Now go jerk off to Pulse Demon you fucking pleb.
>>66165089
>little emotion in jazz
Stop posting anytime.
>>66165020
>First of all "art music" isn't a qualifier, it's just a term for any music which is distributed via notation
No it isn't. It also refers to the musical tradition. Even if it didn't though, you knew what the guy meant and pulling someone up about a small semantics issue doesn't make him ignorant about the music or invalidate his argument.
>but it's in timbral complexity that jazz shows its superiority due to its lack of strict tonality and use of improvisation
Well firstly, those are three separate things and the "timbral complexity" of a piece of music is separate from harmonic aspects like tonality and improvisation; which isn't so much a quality of the music as it is a composing technique in the same way that notation is.
However, art music has also explored all these in a more in depth and academic way than jazz has.
This is slightly more clear when it comes to things like harmony but timbre is hard to describe in a quantitative way. There isn't really a solid reason one can say whether the (at the time)unusal and individualistic timbral styles that the players from Duke Ellington's Orchestra were developing in the 30s and 40s are any more or less complex than the odd ways Stravinsky's Rite of Spring pushed the the colour of instruments.
>>66165089
>all these people replying to pasta
https://rbt.asia/mu/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=music+snobs+lump+jazz+and+classical+together+as+the+
b8
>>66164446
I was young, far too young. He was wintering in Kent, whoever 'he' was. I may have convinced myself that it was all a dream. I first saw him when he held the door for me at the local railway museum, and our paths crossed again in the library; we both reached for the same copy of Nabokov's Pale Fire as he hummed the vocal melody of Van Morrison’s Cyprus Avenue. Our hands brushed, and we looked to each other – I with a nervous smile, he with a grin that has now come to haunt my mind's eye whenever I allow my thoughts to wander as I am taken in by the motorik rhythms of certain popular German progressive rock bands. "Take it," he said. "I much prefer his earlier work." I thanked him and turned to leave, but as I did so he grabbed my dress and tugged me back, forcefully wrapping his arm about my waist and pushing my bottom against the rock of his crotch. I respected the policies of the library too much to scream. He pressed his nose to my scalp – "You're a soft little machine, aren't you? Mhm... seven out of ten." For reasons I still do not entirely comprehend, his judgement relaxed me. I told him my train was not leaving for another hour and he led me back to his cottage. Foreplay consisted of him slapping me about the face and asking "What does my baby say?" until I tearfully replied with "W-we can live in the empty spaces of this life." I do not wish to recall the rest of the afternoon in any more detail, but it was, as you would expect, slow, deep, and hard. Part of my therapy has involved revisiting the library, wherein I overheard a man at the desk enquiring as to where he could find a book on the Beatles. The look that crept upon the librarian’s face is one with which I am all too familiar. My smile is stuck, I cannot go back to your frownland…
Art music? More like FART music lmao.
>>66165635
>No it isn't. It also refers to the musical tradition.
Musical traditions that employ a written musical tradition. This has nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't constitute a qualitative term.
>Even if it didn't though,you knew what the guy meant
It doesn't, and the fact that my mind has managed to fill in the gaps of his fallacious reasoning doesn't prevent me from calling him out on it.
>and pulling someone up about a small semantics issue doesn't make him ignorant about the music or invalidate his argument.
While fallacious reasoning in support of a position doesn't, by itself, prove the position is false, it does mean that the person making the argument has failed to present any case for it to be true.
>Well firstly, those are three separate things and the "timbral complexity" of a piece of music is separate from harmonic aspects like tonality and improvisation
While they're essentially separate as musical elements, timbre can encompass most other properties of sound including harmony.
>However, art music has also explored all these in a more in depth and academic way than jazz has.
Dissert.
>>66164826
>In terms of composition and performance it is far more advanced and skillful than any other form of music.
This is really a matter of taste though
complicated and hard to master doesn't equal advanced
first of all, let's bring it out into the open: anyone who tries to assert the primacy of one type of art over all the others is trying to promote a hidden social agenda - whether they know it or not.
everyone is allowed to prefer one form over all the others; but once you start claiming it's the only right answer for "best genre," you've lost all people who try to be honest with themselves, and who realize that they need more than just one kind of music.
to your question: when I hear certain string quartets by Beethoven, and certain long solos by Coltrane, I can hear that there is still more musical ideas to be explored there, still more to say. I intuit that it's incomplete until something more happens in the piece.
basically it's like a melody: "row, row, row your boat..." if you develop it up to "merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily" then hold it, even a young child will feel the inherent musical tension of the fact that's it's incomplete. I think it's like that, only on an extremely-involved, gargantuan scale.
simple major scale fingering exercises vs complex grooves and imrpov
BA BA BEE DOO DA, BOW BOW WWAAAAAYH
BA BE BEEE DOO DAM BAW BAW BRAARARW
BE BOP DO DO DO BEEP BA DEE DO BA BOP DOP
BAW BAW BAW BAAAAAW
BAO BAO BAO BAAAOOOO
DO DO DO DO, DO DOO DO, DEEE DE DE DE DDEE DE
DEEE DE DOW
DEEE
DOOO
DEE DOO DO DO DOO DO
DOW DOW DA DAW DAW
DOW
>>66165089
>all these mad jazz fags
he's right tho
>>66165020
>timbral complexity
No timbre is more "complex" than another, and classical has more variety sound wise than most genres.
I'm glad that white dudes in wigs typically just suck cock these days.
