previous thread: >>65909521
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. But remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any art music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
>Theory
http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html
>tl;dr
https://gumroad.com/l/tldrmusic#
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw
http://composer.rowy.net/
>Score Reference Library
http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Foundation Studies in Fugue
http://www.mediafire.com/download/f1zbff56mxufhce/Norden_Hugo_Foundation_studies_in_Fugue.pdf
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
>Score Preparation Guide
musiciandevelopment.com/2016/05/16/how-to-prepare-a-professional-score/
>Orchestral Preparation Guideline
http://mola-inc.org/article/Music-Preparation-Guidelines-for-Orchestral-Music.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Sam Adler's Study of Orchestration, 3rd Ed.
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/w473HFOA/file.html
>Orchestration Online Blog
http://orchestrationonline.com/
>Takadimi: A Beat - Oriented System of Rhythm Pedagogy
http://www.takadimi.net/documents/TakadimiArticle.pdf
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Musictheory.net - General music theory with accompanying exercises and tests. Great for practice.
https://www.musictheory.net/
>Succint theory up to contemporary techniques such as serialism et al.
http://learnmusictheory.net/
And feel free to expand!
Reminder that the stream is occurring at 6:00 PM CST today, in little under 5 hours. Here's the channel, at least: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA/videos
Also, we might want to pastebin a lot of these links, OP pasta's pretty close to the length limit.
>>65956199
THE _NEW_ /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #1 MODULATION. I want to open this up to more people since not many people seem to be doing it.
Compose a song that is no more than 60 seconds long. You are free to choose tempo, time signatures and other characteristics yourself, but here's the catch:
1. If you've never written a piece that modulates, now your time to start. Modulate to a different key somewhere in the middle of your piece, and then modulate back to the original key for the end. Keys that are commonly modulated to are relative minor or major and the dominant. These are good places to start. If you have modulated before, but only to closely related keys, try writing a piece that modulates to a distant key, 3 or 4 sharps/flats away.
2. If you're already comfortable with modulating _you MUST modulate within 4 bars of the last modulation__
That means that when the piece start, you must modulate to another key by the end of bar 4. You can also modulate in bar 3, 2 and 1, but when you modulate, the "counter" resets, and you have a limit of 4 new bars before the next modulation.
No more, but possibly less, than 4 bars between each modulation... OKAY?
Example: *piece starts in c minor*, bar 3: c major, bar 7: a major, bar 8: e minor etc.
Good luck.
If I remember correctly, this challenge started on a Thursday, so it'll last until Thursday I guess. A week seems like a fair amount of time.
>>65956518
I'll complete my first composition, then I'll figure out a way to fulfill both of those requirements. Something slow like this
>>65956718
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teeOavr7yLg
>D nat minor in first 2 measures
>C Major in measures 3-4
>measure 5 starts C Major, but holding A so long causes it to feel like D nat minor in measure 6
>C Major in measure 7-8, end on half cadence
>Measure 9 starts out C Major, but holds a Dmin chord makes it feel like the tonic
>piece ends in Dmin
Is there anything you can do in western orchestral music that hasn't already been done before?
>>65958275
Yes.
>>65958275
I don't know anon
How do I end a 1 minute long piece?
>>65958584
bIImaj7#11
>>65958646
?
>>65956518
I'll try. After I figure out some of lilyponds technical things.
Can someone help identify something for me, I'm working on a tune and I know for the life of me that it's used somewhere, Ive written it out here for a Bb instrument
>>65959277
Oh and that Ab is supposed to be a Bb, but its played as an Ab on a C instrument
>>65959277
>>65959327
And no that's not a baseline, the measure continues down to the second line, I as short on time so that's why it's shit
>>65959277
I'm trying my hardest, but man I can barely interpret this. Especially with this cryptic sentence >>65959327
I'm also really not sure if this is what you meant with the third measure.
>>65958904
yeah, but usually you'd also have the 9 in it, and probably no 5th, but it was a joke anyways
>>65960106
That's good, but the key is in Ab, I think k that got cut off when I took the picture
>>65960414
>the key is in Ab
what
Could you maybe just post the concert pitches in order or something?
Posting wip for the challenge
https://clyp.it/fmcr0jnf
The "string section" voice is supposed to be a solo cello but I just can't stand how the solo cello midi sounds.
>>65960460
Ab, 4 flats. The order of flats is B, E, A, D, G, C, F,
>>65961394
How does it go from the key of C as notated to Ab when it's for a Bb instrument? Is it transposed twice?
I'm sorry, I'm just a cellist, my puny mind can't handle transposition
>>65961606
Ok so it was transposed to Bb from C, right? But it's in Ab. So, the notes B,E,A,D are flatted.
And it's ok, I literally just learned how to play Bb stuff with my trombone which I play in C, and its a bit of a learning curve
>>65961750
Basically, all in all you're doing great with transposition, but be sure to remember that those notes are flatted. I have a chart that will also help.
https://clyp.it/ituqjqxj
Anyway, good to see these threads are still alive.
>>65961750
So if it's in Ab, wouldn't it be transposed from Ab to Bb?
It's really just the naming of pitches and the key signature that completely throw me for a loop.
>>65961275
Forgot to ask.
Where could I go after this? I've managed to get from d to Bb with 11 measures / 22 seconds to spare, repeating a variant of the original motif in Bb. What's written so far is something like ABA', I guess. Should I do something like ABA'B'A'', somehow finagling my way back to d for the end? Should I just abandon d?
Also, I'm not really satisfied with this piano accompaniment, except at measures 9-10 and 13-14, but any change seems to make it worse.
bump for stream in less than an hour, hopefully
>>65962768
Stream here in just over 10 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ6DRxdvN3A
>>65963583
I guess not, then?
>>65963816
>>65964320
I'm lurking in the stream senpai. Hopefully more people come. Maybe make a thread to get non /comp/ people on the board in here?
bumping to hopefully get some people in here.
>>65965210
Not much use without the streamer though
>>65965441
What do you mean? I think stream friend is waiting for more people to show up before he starts. Not much use doing it if there's only one person watching.
Dead
>>65965533
Well, alright
Somewhat random but I recently did an art-leaning cover of Drake's One Dance. Critiques are welcome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcKXRPx52FM
Just as a bump and for some friendly conversation, how long have you all been playing music, and what instruments do you play?
>>65965765
I have been playing piano for 4 years now, started double bass at the start of this year.
>>65965791
How is your experience with double bass? Is it hard to get into?
>>65965765
Cello since I was 5 or 6. Some piano here and there, 2 years of violin in elementary (might as well have never touched a violin at this point though).
>>65965869
Well I would recommend getting a teacher, I have a fantastic teacher by the name of Jon Delaney, he plays mostly jazz and manouche, and teaches guitar and bass. You need someone to help get rid of bad habits when they first appear, see. It's not as hard to get into as you might think, but its pretty essential that you get your intonation correct at the start, and also learning to hold the bass and not hurt your hand.
So maybe the hardest part about starting is the ergonomics, since its such a physical instrument, but I would definitely recommend playing it, its such an underrated instrument.
>>65956275
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA/videos
wheres the video???
>>65966202
Sorry, the video was unlisted.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ6DRxdvN3A
I don't think the stream's going to happen at this point, though.
>>65966202
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ6DRxdvN3A
>>65963583
second lesson where?
>>65966270
why not? did he died?
>>65966332
presumably.
Do you guys ever come upon a phrase or think of a phrase that could be used as a song title, and this inspires a whole composition? I do this often. Maybe since I'm also a writer?
>>65966490
I have a google doc of names and ideas that I associate with different moods that I hope to one day use.
>>65966490
Not me, but a friend of mine is a very prolific composer whose compositions are all for his admittedly deviantart-tier OCs.
He writes some good stuff though
>>65966490
Yep, this is how I write a huge percentage of my songs
>>65966528
Here's a few that aren't too shit.
Red sky blues.
Blå konsept. (blue concept) - (unfortunately already a song)
Brunost.
Sore Lips Jam.
Kontrabass konsept.
Screamin’ Xavier.
Mode 33.
Edin Gardens.
Iced Jas.
Night Shift.
Mobility.
Kalachakra (Harry August)
Subterranean gales - sounds like free jazz actually
Free to go.
Music From A Simpler Time
Emptying Keys.
Walkin’ down Major st.
Not the stream guy but who still wants this lesson to happen? I was looking forward to it.
>>65967016
I as well
Anyone with experience using Komplete 10, have you managed to back up ultimate in case the installation drive dies?
And has anyone installed Komplete 10 on an SD card?
bump for no stream
>>65958275
Your imagination is the only limits. Modern orchestral players can and will play a wide variety of extended techniques, from microtones to aleatoric scratching and hitting the side of their instruments with their hands. They will sing while playing, hell you can even give them all kazoos if you really want to. Anything is possible. You can even have live electronics and tape parts in your pieces, they're quite common nowdays
>>65965765
Played french horn in school for 6 years. I want to start learning piano but I would have to buy a pretty decent keyboard. I heard that if you play too long on a non-weighted keyboard you start to develop bad habits.
>>65967365
I have Komplete backed up on my web server. I have not needed to use the back up yet though so I'm not sure if it works, but I'm pretty sure all you have to do is reassign where it is meant to be and it's all good.
>>65968551
Cool, so a simple drag and drop copy should do it? At least I hope so. I've been checking out the $399 deal they have right now but that was the only thing holding me out.
It would be good if after all the pieces are finished, they be put in a compilation, original music by /mu/ or something.
>>65969921
speaking of, it'd be cool if we tried some sort of collab work or something. One person write a theme and everyone else write a variation or something.
>>65971495
Or a whole piece and everyone does a modulation of however many bars.
Hello, YouTube stream dude here. I'm so sorry for not being able to stream. I had planned to teach harmony using a guide that was going to be written by another /mu/tant. but I was just informed Saturday that he couldn't finish the notes for the lesson. I didn't have time to do them myself because I was unexpectedly called into work. I couldn't post any of this before because I was banned. The stream was posted by another anon, (thank you for that), as planned, but I just wasn't there to broadcast it.
So I need time to write up a set of notes.
>>65972851
No problem
I wasn't really sure how to interpret the one-word "nevermind" e-mail I got, so I ended up just posting it anyways.
>>65967016
me too.
bump for the new lesson
>>65972851
all right. but please dont give up on us
>>65966558
you can't just say that
>>65972851
bumping for streamer dude
>>65974477
>>65974216
It's not gonna be today guys. I neeed time to compile the notes.
>>65965765
Memetar for five years now. Think about ending everything for choosing such a shit instrument every day.
>>65974665
Hey, a 'memetar' did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEgPEgYnq0
You can do anything with one.
>>65974841
Yeah except be taken seriously by other musicians and be a writing tool for writing for ensembles. Not to mention you are literally limited to "Muh Bach" and jazz in terms of what you can play.
>>65974888
>you are literally limited to "Muh Bach" and jazz in terms of what you can play.
not really. Plenty of great classical written for guitar. Rodrigo, Albinez, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEfFbuT3I6A&list=PLD15AF3F721D9841B
Tristan Murail even wrote a piece for electric guitar with distortion and whammy bar - "Vampyr!"
>>65974888
Check out some Django Reinhardt dude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZBPcXTXPEA
>>65974888
>literally implying
>>65971495
this sounds like a good challenge, for next week?
>>65975554
Alright, next week's challenge can be a variation on a theme.
Should we choose a theme from some work posted here, or a famous theme, like Paganinni's 24th?
Yo you all talk the talk here but why has no one pointed out the crotchet that laps over a beat in the second bar in OP's post? Makes it harder to read as a musician and is generally poor form
>>65972851
>I couldn't post any of this before because I was banned.
the absolute madman
>>65975569
i was thinking of doing something stupid like taking something from ITAOTS, would be very fun. But if people don't like that idea, I think something famous would be best.
>>65956518
spent the last hour or so shitting this out
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1nqKifTKuBy
>>65975650
There is nothing wrong with the second bar in the OP post. I assume you mean the Ab in the bass clef? its the only crotchet in the bar, and its fine. You would only use a tied note if the crotchet overlapped the mid point of the bar, and bar 2 (and in fact all bars in the example) is clearly divided in two down the centre.
>>65975819
Not that guy, but a lot of people, myself included, prefer that when there are semiquavers in a passage, everything be subdivided into 4. Sometimes this is unnecessary (like, I would personally not beam 4 quavers in those passages, but that isn't necessary), but here I think it is more readable with two tied quavers.
YT stream guy. I'm heading off to work in about an hour now, and I'd like it if someone could review the notes I've written for the next stream. They're only like halfway finished. If interested, email [email protected]
This next stream, by the way, will cover all types of basic chords, like major/minor, sevenths, suspended, and the variations of these chords, and how to use them in your compositions.
>>65975865
that guy here, it's more that the crotchet that laps over from the third to the fourth beat should be written as a quaver tied to a quaver of the same note, for ease of reading
>>65975974
nope. Thats incorrect. You dont write all crotchets as tied quavers, only if they overlap the mid point of the bar. Otherwise whats the point of ever having a crotchet?
The OP pic is fine, and easily readable by any competent performer.
Am I shit-tier if I'm a guitarist and have basically no clue at all about music theory/notation/scales etc and just play and compose by ear and directly record my music as a means of writing? I'm trying my hand at writing progressive metal right now. Would you say learning music theory would be helpful for my songwriting ability?
>>65976024
Progressive metal? Yeah, learn some theory dude
>>65976003
like I said, when there are semiquavers involved it's nice to have each beat beamed together. Of course anyone can read whats up there, and it doesn't matter in this case, but if your performers are all sight reading it's good to get rid of uncertainty, just like how in most sight reading circumstances you notate everything without key signatures.
>>65975791
I like a lot of your rhythmic ideas and your melodic suspensions. Especially like in the 5th bar, it looks like it shouldn't work. You've got that implied minor 9th and that unresolved E, but it works out well. Some places your harmony is unclear, such as bar 10, which sounds weird without an Ab in my opinion.
>>65974916
Albeniz wrote nothing for guitar.
It's all transcriptions of piano works
>>65976058
Any tips on best ways to get started? I've been playing guitar for ~6-7 years now and am self taught and only play by ear.
Here's clip of trying out doing some prog metal that I recently finished if you can be bothered. https://clyp.it/qbdtacik
>>65976024
If you're playing music in a band, you dont need to know shit. Just write by ear. If it sounds good to you, it will sound good to others. theory only describes what sounds good. If you're already writing, you dont need to learn it.
Theory gives you more options, and lets you write for real performers, but I'd only advise learning it if you feel you're just writing the same shit over and over, or if you want to learn how to write like the old master composers, and write for orchestras, etc.
I wrote music by ear for 10 years before deciding to study it at university, and I still write mostly by ear. I only use theory if I'm writing a fugue or trying to do some tricky key changes
>>65976096
Well, prog has a lot of classical influence. Study some classical, write some classical. Get out of your comfort zone.
For your drumming, I recommend studying jazz rhythms instead. They're usually very different and complex. I think Origin actually got thier drumming style from jazz, but I'm not sure
>>65976133
Yeah drums are definitely a weak point for me I think as I'm not a drummer myself and only program drums as I see fit so thank you, that's good advice.
>>65976128
I play in a band where I write more "simple" music, but like to experiment and trying to expand when writing stuff outside of that. So thinking it might be good as you say to get "more options" and doing tricky stuff.
>>65975650
You should definitely write to Bach and tell him he's wrong
>>65961958
Can somebody critique this part?
>>65976501
not enough imitation (if any at all). Check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x33NihQShyw and notice how economical bach's writing is. This is what really impressive counterpoint is like.
>>65961958
>https://clyp.it/ituqjqxj
2 fast 4 me
Give us some time to soak up the harmonies. Constant semiquaver shredding is not always conducive to good music. Try to have your melodies be an interesting mixture of different note lengths. Slow down and focus on 1 beautiful melody, then write a second beautiful melody that compliments it in counterpoint. Dont start shredding until you're really good at this, and even then dont shred the whole time.
I like the half cadence at the end though.
So I've just done a thing. I've done some theory, but never really composed a piece before, so after a while of changing and getting rid of phrases, I've come up with what seems to be the best two bars I can do. Apologies if I have failed to correct anything wrong with the rhythm, and I'm not entirely satisfied with the chord tones lining up with the beats I wanted. So yeah.
do you guys compose as a hobby or expect to make/have a carreer out of music? i have a shitty menial job but my mind is thinking about music 24/7. i don't know if I should have high (if any) expectations, though
>>65977132
I take it seriously, but I'm applying for an arts college so every day of the term 2 holidays are being spent at the piano playing. I'm pretty determined to make a career from it.
>>65956199
/comp/, I got a book for learning composition, but it expects me to know chrods, metres and other things I don't know.
I tried to read it anyways, but came to the conclusion that it's better to have a good base on the basics first.
What should I get or which website should I vist to learn those basics?
>>65976637
>>65976718
Thanks. I guess I turned the tempo up because I've been listening to it for so long I got bored of it. Higher speed or key change makes it interesting again.
I've got a few more short ones, I'd appreciate some feedback on those too if it's not a problem.
https://clyp.it/ykea2ewg
(I exported the second one wrong, I was still working on 0:17 to 0:45, it doesn't fit):
https://clyp.it/hron4myx
... I again feel that I am wasting my time with this. But I don't wanna stop, anons...
>>65977187
Try musictheory.net
>>65956199
>>65956518
I don't know how new this is, to me it is though and I think this is really great.
I will keep an eye on this/these thread/-s and participate next time, because I got to know a bit late.
Keep it up!
>>65961275
Could someone critique this if possible? Sorry to ask again.
How do I write something weird like Hindemith? Everything I try to do in that vein comes out vaguely tryhard-ish
>>65975791
imho your "modulations" are not very eloquent, elegant, or smooth or whatever word you want. Some of the harmonies are just there all out of a sudden. Especially the return to C major is somewhat of an act of brute force and violence.
not too bad for an hour of shitting.
>>65977187
I second musictheory.net. Teoria is good for practice as well, especially once you start learning harder stuff.
bumbing
Can't bump for 2 hours, hoping it survives
>>65961275
>>65977869
So I like quite a lot about your piece. I think your lines are excellent, great melody. I enjoy the phrasing, especially going from bar 7 to 8. I think the phrasing starts to become a little weaker towards the end. Bars 17 to 19 don't really feel connected to anything, so it's sort of like a 3 bar section which I really don't like. If you were to expand upon it, it could work, but then you might go past the 1 minute limit. What I would do in this position is let the cello sit out for a moment (or lay some accompaniment), it's been super busy so far. Give the piano a brief moment to shine, and then you can return to the cello material and bring us home. I wouldn't abandon D, you could, but I think going back to it would wrap up a 1 minute piece well. It's only going to be 1 minute, so I think you should avoid anything that would make it sounds unfinished.
I also really don't like your piano part. I think it's mostly voicings and activity. I can give more comment about voicings later when I'm at a piano, but I'd consider leaving some more room in your piano part, especially when the cello is really active.
>>65977132
i'm looking to make a career out of it. I've been doing some student films recently. But I also make music as a hobby, I have a band that I don't plan to do anything with professionally (except maybe put stuff out on bandcamp not very seriously)
What I get from these threads is only the sorrow. Every day I spend some time composing and/or producing but I fucked myself up big time because of music theory, relationships with professors and my depression and I dropped out of academy. I'm afraid it's over for me but I can't stop making music, since it's the only thing that is keeping me alive. It's hard to watch my ex-colleagues doing great while I don't see a bright future anymore.
>>65977303
I think you're really good, these pieces are enjoyable. I find myself a little bored, especially in the beginning of https://clyp.it/ykea2ewg until 0:22. I don't think it's a great way to start a piece, the bass voice is just thumping along and the melody is really relentless, and passing it among parts doesn't really make it varied enough. Past 0:22 I dig it. Your melody really develops and unfolds in the next section. 0:53 is a great moment. I really wish it was brought out more. It feels like that's what we've been working towards this whole time. What I would do is just harmonize the top part, or do something to make it punchier. Increasing the intensity of that bit would also make your ending less sudden, in my opinion. I think what you should start doing is trying to make these longer sectional forms. Toccata and fugue type shit
>>65982060
I really appreciate your insights, they are great. Good idea on the 0:53, now that I think about it, it does feel empty. It was my first ever completed piece (well, now it's again in a "production" phase, lol).
Thanks once again, anon.
>>65981616
>but I fucked myself up big time because of music theory
How did this fuck you up?
>>65982224
Genuinely very impressive if that's your first full piece. I'd say counterpoint is a tough place to start, honestly, because of how technical it must be. I think you should, in addition to continue what you're doing, really focus on homophonic stuff especially melody writing. That would improve your contrapuntal stuff too.
>>65981293
>Bars 17 to 19 don't really feel connected to anything
Really? Bar 17 is the original motif but adjusted without transposition into Bb Major. Maybe with transposition it would work better, and the piano part probably isn't helping it sound cohesive.
>it's been super busy so far
Yeah, this was basically a product of improvising/composing at the cello and then trying to write an accompaniment.
>I think it's mostly voicings and activity.
You mean the piano part is too much voicings and activity? Or the problem with the piano part is poorly-done voicing and activity?
>I'd consider leaving some more room in your piano part
Ah, yeah, I was rather unsatisfied with the piano part, but I tried to improve it with more piano rather than less.
>I can give more comment about voicings later
Looking forward to it. My piano accompaniments are either lousy or adagio/grave, no overlap.
Haha what happens when you spend so much time dedicated to music, but then learn you don't really like it that much? Haha good bye music
>>65982690
>Really? Bar 17 is the original motif but adjusted without transposition into Bb Major. Maybe with transposition it would work better, and the piano part probably isn't helping it sound cohesive.
Sorry, not unconnected material wise, but more in terms of form. It just sounds like three bars that are sticking out by themselves, and I think it just comes down to the drastically different register, and the change in accompaniment. It sounds like the start of a new section that only lasts 3 bars, so it's kinda weird.
>You mean the piano part is too much voicings and activity? Or the problem with the piano part is poorly-done voicing and activity?
I think the voicings are sometimes poor and there is too much activity, for the most part
>>65982941
this is why i'm on /mu/
>>65981616
Same, it's why I look at the internet these days
No one is doing great or has a future, that type of nonsense exists only in the land of imaginaria, get over it
music(anything) can only be enjoyed with the brain in neutral, so park that shit
>>65983155
>music(anything) can only be enjoyed with the brain in neutral, so park that shit
I don't get this sentence.
>>65983442
i think he means be as manic as possible and try to lack self awareness when confronting music (at least this is what i try to do but i get too self aware most of the time)
>bunch of theory majors killed /classical/ so they could wank over their crummy compositions
good job assholes
>>65983749
nobody killed /classical/, nerd
>>65983749
Why haven't you made the new /classical/ thread yet?
>>65983072
I was going to have the left hand have the only main accompanimental figure and the right hand add flourishes or something, but then I realized the cello part was really cutting into the left hand's space (and I don't think the melody's really suited for being the bass).
Should I be overly concerned with the bass and melody overlapping at times?
>>65981616
You don't need to be in music school to learn about music.
bimp
>>65986122
I see your bimp and I raise my bemp.
>>65983749
These threads are more productive than /classical/ ever was. Some of us may have frequented /classical/ but I dont think any of us ever made the threads
>>65977927
Use tone rows. use inversions, use retrogrades, etc.
>>65987866
>Hindemith
>tone rows
>>65956199
What the hell is up with this chord progression guys? It seems like its minor but nothing seems to fit. Sounds like the melodies just playing on a sus chord. Can anyone break it down for me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsVT_-RsONg
>>65989119
sounds like they're cycling through some modes. First little motif 0:07 is mixolydian, at 0:12 it sounds like they through in a phrygian modal interchange chord, at 0:18 it sounds like it's now dorian or aeolian where it was mixo before. This is just roughly by ear and I don't have the best ears. I will transcribe it later at a piano and tell you for sure, but if you post sheet music I can tell you right now
>>65989250
i didnt use sheet music. i just listened to the melody and replicated it on the piano by ear. sus4 does work, but it seems to give a different vibe. when ever i use a legit triad the mood completely changes. wonder why. weird stuff. guess a triad just doesnt fit here then? the melody is too ambiguous for a straight minor chord or something?
>>65989385
Just by ear, the melody seems to be defining the third and swapping between mixo and a minor mode, so that would make sense you would need a sus chord
>>65989119
Most of the time the guitar is repeating an accompaniment figure which alternates between
G# C# D# G# (G# sus4)
and
A C# D# G# (I guess you'd represent this as G# sus4/A)
Basically the bass of the guitar accompaniment figure is moving between the tonal center and flat 2, while the quartal, ambiguous nature of the rest of it allows the melody to change modes at will as the other anon described. The music of the Legend of Zelda changes between major and minor modes often, even in the title music of the original game.
>>65989385
A triad doesn't fit here because when it changes between major and minor the third scale degree changes with it. At 0:07 you can hear the melody play a B#, while at 0:23 you can hear a B natural.
>>65989620
A C# D# G# is best written as Amaj7#11, it's a modal interchange chord from phrygian, bIImaj7 .Also thanks for confirming what I was hearing.
>>65989620
ahhhh dude youre right it does change from major to minor. if you listened to both melodies independently without the guitar you can see how unrelated and sooo out of place they sound together. shit bro you just opened my eyes to the matrix. daaamn. also in the first chord a MAJOR triad works! cause it doesnt seem to touch any thirds. damn thats genius
>>65989703
>
*first melody
my bad
>>65989703
>>65989724
meant if you played it independently of course. in the context of the whole piece it wouldnt work
>>65989703
why not just use sus chord like the originals? Why you trying to put in other chords
>>65989773
nah i just did that to test the anons claim that it changes from major to minor. if it did as anon said, the first melody should work in a major chord. and it did which is what i was saying
>>65989785
on a side note while we're on the subject of sus chords sus4>sus2> tonic is such an overused progression
just call the next one /chords/ already
>>65956199
Is there a discord or something
here's my current answer to the challenge wip. Little organ piece and trying out all kinds of things with this notation software. I'm not a composition student, thus everything is fairly simple, but it works.
20sec so far.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Aos9bsdwgw
>>65991061
That's really quite nice. I particularly like bars 3-4.
>>65991061
>measure 7
>iv/V
>>65991178
>>65991497
thanks, I'm trying to add some stuff I learned from my organ lessons, and am going to aim for some german romantic style. And so some more modulations. I'd like to go for c# maj next, in order to arrive at f# min for the motive and then go for some diminuished progressions.
ah shit bump
Fugue anon here, finished the first draft of this current one, been working on it on and off for the last 2 weeks or so
https://clyp.it/kbywi41m
>>65977927
"Most of Hindemith's music employs a unique system that is tonal but non-diatonic. Like most tonal music, it is centered on a tonic and modulates from one tonal center to another, but it uses all 12 notes freely rather than relying on a scale picked as a subset of these notes. Hindemith even rewrote some of his music after developing this system. One of the key features of his system is that he ranks all musical intervals of the 12-tone equally tempered scale from the most consonant to the most dissonant. He classifies chords in six categories, on the basis of how dissonant they are, whether or not they contain a tritone, and whether or not they clearly suggest a root or tonal center. Hindemith's philosophy also encompassed melody—he strove for melodies that do not clearly outline major or minor triads."
You should read his book "The Craft of Musical Composition" in which he outlines his system in detail.
>>65993828
Got any sheet music?
>>65995260
Nope, but I could slip in into notation if you really like. Its all written in reason
>>65995260
I cbf scoring that fugue out, but I did score out the first 3 fugues I ever wrote:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/v9mpg996yc4m7l9/Three_Fugues_for_Piano.pdf
Which you can hear here:
https://soundcloud.com/psllbof/three-fugues-for-piano
>>65956199
anyone here know about phrygian gamer? he was a prty cool youtuber discussing compositions of popular music and had some short tutorials on basic harmony, but his channel is wiped off of youtube and havent heard from him since. dont know why either...
anyone?
can anyone tell me how I actually score read? what the fuck do I do? i usually just stare at the sheet music and wonder how the composers came up with it
>>65996277
How to read a full orchestra score? Or just how to read notes?
>>65996360
full orchestral score. people say you should "score read" to get a better understanding understanding of writing but i dont know what to look for
how do i make jungle/zoo like music?
>>65983749
I've frequented /classical/ for 4 years now and it has been in steady decline since early 2015. It pretty much just became a Bach circlejerk and people talking about which Mahler or Wagner recording was better. I tried starting discussion about German Minnesanger and just got terrible /int/ tier posting. If you brought up any romantic music besides Wagner you got memed on too. It became worse than reddit and facebook.
Was bound to happen desu. It will be back though. Might be a few months though.
>>65976024
Learn theory. Any metal buttguitarist who tells you it hinders creativity is memeing you
>>65996454
Bongos, syncopation, mixolydian mode and ethnic wind instruments
>>65996052
Yeah nice, thanks.
Hey could anybody recommend a composing software I could use? Preferably not Sibelius since it costs so much. Actually preferably something free.
>>65996599
go to thepiratebay.se type in sibelius 7.5 and download Ching Lius file. or just be a sucker and use musescore.
>>65996599
pirated sibelius, or look at the fkin op
>>65996052
You a kiwi too bro?
>>65996626
Yeah m8
>>65996599
Lilypond if you'd bother doing text based notation.
>>65996659
Nice, I'm from Auckland meself.
>>65996742
Dunedin here. You ever go to the CANZ nelson workshops? would highly recommend. Great experience, get a piece played and recorded, and get to hang out with composers and talk art music for a whole week
>>65996775
No I haven't, but they sound fantastic.
>>65996798
You should submit a score for next year. check the CANZ website for the deadline next year. Its usually around may. There's a decent amount of different instruments you can write for (dont write for them all at once though - probably maximum 5 or 6 players) and its a really cool experience. make sure you stay at the YHA with all the other composers. important discussions at dinner and breakfast! plus get to hang out with all the cool older composers. Drinking tequila with John Psathas last year was hilarious
>>65996775
>>65996839
Is this poly
>>65996859
>Soundcloud is psllbof
you do the math
so i take it improv is no composition.
http://picosong.com/hwJ3/
>>65996859
>>65997022
Sorry didn't see that.
Anyways I have a question to ask here. I want to start off a piece off with the choir doing chromatic mediant chords alla Gesualdo. The problem is that my piece is in D Major and the chords I want to use are A#maj9 - F#maj9 - D. Should I just use a Bbmaj9 instead to avoid double accidentals?
>>65997155
Bach could improvise fugues. Improv is a type of composition, as long as you either record the improvisation and transcribe it.
Improvisation is a great way of generating material. Once you have some really good material you can start the hard work of composing it all together into a coherent piece.
>>65997410
Nothing wrong with double accidentals... They're there for a reason. Although choirs will always prefer something easy to read over something that is more functionally correct.
>Janacek's "On an Overgrown Path"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqIS06fR4Io
Guy is a master of modulation. 10/10
Sup /comp/, anyone here using the Vienna Symphonic Library?
I have Sibelius 8, Vienna Ensemble Pro and Kontakt 5. I wanna use the symphonic cube but I'm a total noob with this sort of thing and I'm not sure how to make it all work.
I downloaded a 60GB torrent of the symphonic cube library but it seems incomplete as there are instruments missing and I think it should be much bigger than that anyway, plus I'm not sure if I have a Sibelius soundset for VSL. What do?
>>65997924
Sibelius is a bit of a cunt to get good libraries to work on. I'd advise getting a proper DAW like cubase, or even FL studio. They're very easy to work with and you have much more control than with sibelius (the control of dynamics is awful in sibelius). If you already have Kontakt 5, getting VSL to work on any DAW should be a breeze.
>>65997924
Gibbe de link boss pls
>>65996374
Look for what you want to learn. I would only suggest score reading to people who have a great understanding of theory but want to get better at orchestral writing. Do things like highlight parts to see how the melody is passed around. Do a piano reduction sections with big/cool/effective chords to see how they voice it. Colour code that voicing so you can see what families are playing what notes in what register. You won't get much out of just reading the score and following the music. Listen for cool stuff, figure out what it is. Again, focus on stuff you can only find in orchestral music. If you just want to improve your harmony and melody writing, it's easier and efficient to look at smaller works. Unless you're a monster transposer, but I'm not at the point where I can stare a score and understand all the notes instantly.
>>65997155
improv is spontaneous composition
>>65997924
I use VSL in Digital Performer and logic. Like the anon said, Sibelius is just not a great place for it. You're limiting your ability to produce your music effectively, it's best to compose in Sibelius and produce in another DAW. The cube shit is great but don't use any of the presets, learn how to build your own patches.
>>65997366
is this like an edited reel, or are these just fragments at the moment
>>65996454
Be German.
>>65998600
>You won't get much out of just reading the score and following the music.
I disagree. There's a lot of revealing visual information in scores you don't need music theory to decode.
>>65998790
Personally I feel like I can accomplish that with listening, of course you're right, some people may definitely find a score helpful for that.
>>65996374
You do score study to work out how the masters do orchestration. How they double parts, how they combine instruments, the instructions they give, the techniques they use, the way they write. Literally everything is in the score.
Listening to a piece of music while reading the score is one of the most satisfying and interesting things you can do with music imo. Often I hear a piece and say "how did the composer DO that?" and so I check the score, I read along the part I liked, work out how they did it and "internalize" the technique for future reference.
If it wasn't for score study I would still be pretty clueless about writing for orchestra, and would never have had my music recorded by real orchestras.
Plus some scores are just beautiful to look at
>>65996277
I would also advice you to check out the link in the OP for the orchestral principles by risky korsakov, it has incredible insight.
There's an interesting problem I've had lately. I find it almost impossible and/or meaningless to compose "absolute music". It just doesn't make any sense to me. Whenever I listen to absolute music, my brain automatically interprets it as a narrative. Either that, or I have no real emotional reaction to the msuic. When composing myself, I need some kind of narrative, otherwise, it kind of doesn't matter which direction the music heads in. I can write whatever the fuck I want, because there are no restrictions other than the basic principles of "just as much up as down" and "go back and forth between loud and soft". It's just so boring. Every piece of music I make then is simply about ensuring that there's balance between the contrasts... or imbalance, if that's a point to make.
I especially find it difficult to say, write a string quartet, because what does a string quartet MEAN today? There are so many different string quartets. Some play for young people with completely different references than the old people.
I feel there's a connection between this problem with narrative and problem with context, but I can't pinpoint it exactly... I just know that when I intimately know the exact context for my music, it's easier to write.
I have nothing to say with absolute music. I have stories to tell rather, and I express them in music.
I don't know what the point of this is, but I feel it's important, and I'm trying to understand why.
>>65999343
Some people have to have a meaning for each piece. Thats fine. Some people just want to write something that sounds good. Thats also fine.
The best advice I ever heard was "Write the music only you can". Everyone has a unique approach, and these approaches evolve over the years. Just write the music you want to, if you keep at it you will find meaning in what you want to do. Many people fall down in this area, thinking that music doesn't mean anything and that there's no reason to write a string quartet in 2016. But really people like to listen to interesting music. If thats done with having an interesting premise, or just by having a balance of emotions and dynamics, they dont care too much. As long as it holds their attention and stimulates them.
>>65999343
git gud
have progressed a litte on the challenge, now I just need to return to the original key somehow.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ZGCsNJHMCJ
>>65997696
I have read about, that there are documents of people claiming to have seen Bach improvising fugues.
But honestly I'm still skeptical because his whole style of composition shows that he wrote, rewrote, edited and corrected his works constantly. How would we know, if one of his fugues wasn't just some very old and highly refined fugue originally done by his stundents and brought to perfection by him, collegues and other students?
>>66000019
Are you saying that you think that people say all his fgues were improvised?
>>66000059
It could be. That doesn't mean that it would be impossible for him to do on his own. But I must remain sceptical because I only remember to have seen document which tell about other people having said something. Which is somewhat inacurate, isn't it? Who or what can you believe? However Bachs work is large and there are many fugues, I would go to far, to truly judge.
>>65982296
I'd rather not write a lot about myself, it's complicated, but basically - I managed to pass an entry exam in solfeggio with some private lessons, fast forward, I'm fucked on dictates, have no absolute/perfect pitch and have a hard time writing them, fail every colloquium and that's even nothing compared to a lack of my fundamentals in harmony which I should have had from high school.
Combined with other problems, after I passed some unimportant classes and failed the first final exam in solfeggio I broke down and dropped. I was doing another non-related degree in parallel so I didn't lose a year and am currently studying that.
To this day I ask myself how did I even manage to pass all those classes in high school. It's all probably because I was the best student on my instrument there and had multiple national first prizes etc. so everyone let me go and ultimately, both they and I set myself up for a failure. That's why nowdays I pretty much despise music theory and almost get a slight ptsp when I get in contact with it.
I probably made wrong choices, I even got told that i should really get some private lessons even before academy but I didn't have money for that, nor time because of my gymnasium.
Anyway, I went through some Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum a month or two ago and... I'm not sure if it is actually easy, or maybe I changed, but I enjoyed it very much and I was solving tasks like a breeze. That's when I also realized how important it is to learn from a good material. My counterpoint book was written by my professor and it is written in a way that it sounds as complicated as possible, full of pretentious blather etc. I checked it out and it is basically the same content, but the difference in readibility and learning potential is maximal.
So yeah, all in all, I'm stuck in a shitty course right now and when I look back where I was and where I am now.. Eh, let's just stop there.
You made me write an essay anyway and I hate doing these. Damn.
>>66000492
Aaaaand I'm venting on a 4chan again. I'll see myself out, maybe just skip that post, guys.
>>65999572
that's veeery nice! You are my winner for now.
+at least two modulation techniques used
+major and minor appereance of theme
+musical dramaturgy
-much chromatic movement
-some notes seem to be placed at the cost of strong harmonic movement but that might be intended
>>66000019
He definitely could improvise them, but you're right that all the fugues we see of his written down have been edited and refined.
Like any decent composer, you improvise to generate ideas, then refine those ideas into a coherent composition.
Speaking of bach fugues, I feel I'm getting closer... Organ this time. It seems to be coming more naturally each time.
https://clyp.it/3uvnvzih
A few of the notes cut out for some reason though. some derpage going on with my DAW and this particular organ VST / Library (Leeds Town Hall organ)
>>66000618
go the sheet of it? I Listened to it four times and still could not figure out the dux/comes part of the third voice. Sounds like a Buxtehude Prelude at the first glance
>>65999343
how long have you been trying?
>>66000827
I dont have a sheet, its all written in my DAW.
Here's a MIDI file if that helps though:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/20et9it4hck18j8/6.28.2016_Fugue_in_Cmin_3.mid
They're all real answers, and it doesn't modulate back to the starting key like a fugue should. In fact the third voice enters at the same pitch as the second voice, just an octave down which is a big no-no. but ah well, it sounded good at the time!
Here's what it looks like in my DAW, though I doubt that really helps
>>66000971
yea ok no. Thanks anyways.
My fugue attempts were roughly comparable to your attempt here, but I wouldn't say, I have gotten any better. Keep it up though, one day you will eventually have ideas how to correct/improve/expand what you did earlier.
>>66000591
thanks, guess you've got a point about overusing chromatic lines, esp. when the dramaturgy is receding - I should simplify the chord progression there.
>>65999572
dam i just love it when the higher notes come in at bar 10. good stuff
>>66000873
Starting composing seriously one and a half years ago. It's not that I _can't_ write absolute music or anything, it just feels pointless. I don't personally feel that absolute music is important enough. There must be something more to it, so I need to find some kind of approach for each piece that makes it "legitimized".
>>65999572
>I'm not a composition student
honestly feeling kind of inferior as a composition student
>>66001859
well, I did get some instructions for improvising preludes for chorals when I took organ lessons, thus I have picked up some very basics. I've learned some rules of for 4-part harmonies and that's it.
Then again, I enjoy the music of romantic German composer like Rheinberger or Mendelssohn, and that made its way into that litte Aria I'm currently doing, and to be honest, I think I can't do anything besides baroque or romantic themed stuff.
So, don't feel bad, as a comp major, you're going to be familiar and fluent in a lot of styles that I can't even hope to get good at (mainly all the contemporary and modern stuff)
>>66001650
There are composers like you and there are composers that are the opposite of you. In my opinion, just write how you like to, don't force yourself to write absolute music except for technical exercises. Who knows, you might end up only liking absolute music in the future
>>65958275
Everything has already been done forever from the first time a human-like being emated a sound from it's throat so stop worrying about it and make something interesting.
>>66000563
Now your starting to scare me. I'm starting a college music program this year and I also don't have the best ear.
>>65956199
>no counterpoint
Some fugue
>>65998600
>is this like an edited reel, or are these just fragments at the moment
things i keep starting and not finishing.
>>65999343
i have this exact same problem. i've been retreating into more unconventional genres of music. i'm thinking of ditching notes all together.
tim hecker and people like him really helped me understand what i want out of music as a medium. its difficult to be competent at something i'm not passionate about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu-ihs4BkAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvGoSmEDIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcjc1jVC36k
>>65981293
When you say to leave room in the piano part do you mean less piano overall or moving the parts further away in pitch from the cello?
>>65968402
sounds like a bunch of meme bullshit included for the sake of trying to be hip, edgy and relevant
preparing the comp challenge that I'll post on American Thursday afternoon. It'll be to make a variation on a theme
http://www.strawpoll.me/10612178
Also, thoughts on instrumentation? It will need to be uniform so I can stitch together everyone's things into a semi-coherent whole. Violin + piano?
>>66001650
the key issue is right here:
>There must be something more to it, so I need to find some kind of approach for each piece that makes it "legitimized".
absolute music holds that music communicates nothing other than the music itself. to you, music is just the soundtrack to something else, like a feeling you had or some story you read or made up. that becomes the primary impetus and your musical choices are secondary to its sequencing.
it is like alchemy- you are making a sequence of emotions or events you want to represent, then only mapping them to musical constructs. it is okay in todays world to do this, but to get absolute music would in your case likely require no less than a complete inversion of your musical philosophies
Alright, guess I'll stop here, I'd say it's a stable beta. It's a bit longer than 1 min, but desu, I'd like to play it even slower so it can bridge a communion at a medium sized sunday mass (~3 min).
My main objective was learning text-based music notation and I'm fairly happy with the outcome, more so, as I was able to implement even some of the more complex things (cross staff brackets, auto-merge multi voice rests etc.) without too much hassle.
Cheers.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0XvlF0mz9LS
>>66005206
it is super cute anon, well done
>>66005206
nice stuff
>>66005206
Great work my friend. Just one thing. I know this /comp/ and not /prod/ but I'm not really a fan of the Runescape organ sound. Personal gripe though.
>>66005258
>>66005626
Thanks!
>>66006073
Got it, actually that is not an organ sound at all, cause the generic midi church organ is the full stops sound with lots of mixtures. (I don't own VSTs, too dumb to apply them, too)
I had to make do with a variety of flute sounds (okarina, recorder and flute) to emulate the soft organ stops. I'll try and do a recording on a real organ if I can manage to learn that piece. Some fingerings seem not very ergonomical.
I have two WIPs that I stopped working on months ago. Actually, they are 6+ months old.
Can I get some opinions on them? I personally really like(d) them and see a potential here, but there is still a ton of work to be done, these are almost just sketches and can be boring in some parts.
https://clyp.it/44bpcaqg
For the second one, I cheated a little bit, I was playing with some samples and harmonized them, so it feels a little wonky and doesn't fit at times, but it got me really inspired and I'm planning on dropping them but keep the majority of the melody.
https://clyp.it/2inqqv4y
Should I continue working on them? At times I listen to my works and love them, at other times I hate them. At the moment, I'm somewhere in the middle, especially after hearing some pieces here, oh well. Almost nobody listened to them and I gotta show them no matter what.
>>66006903
Btw I noticed that I uploaded a wrong version of the second one. 1:20 - end was not finished, sorry.
>>66006903
I like the instrumentalisation of the first concept. Having wobbly string synths and a plucked melody + arpeggios work out nicely, that contrast of soft texture and sharp attack comes out very clearly.
Just the chord progression seems very inconsistent. Sometimes there's lots of dissonance with diminuished notes, other times it's very straight forward, also the melody jumps erratically at times and I can't quite keep up.
Second one - nice concept, maybe add some more instruments? Think baroque theater orchestra maybe, a little less thick strings, but some woodwinds (traverse flute, oboe), some harpsichord for arpeggiated chords, and maybe even some organ for sustained chords?
As for the harmonization... well, that's where the pitch hearing thing comes into play. Get that melody of the singer first, and adjust your chords to that.
Good luck!
Should I take, uh, heavy inspiration from an accompaniment from a piece that happens to share the same instrumentation, meter, starting key and even register as my WIP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYmDUDmn9E
Seriously, though, this has all the problems with crossing parts I've been so nervous about, and yet this is exactly what I would call a good piano accompaniment.
>>66005206
Would you say from yourself, that you are good at the organ? Would you be able to play the pedal of the piece you composed? I am asking, because I am a fair hobby piano player and play the organ at church having quite some problems with the pedal. Could I ask you for some tipps on organ pedal technique, or maybe an exercise you had good experience with, if you have one? That would be great.
Also I find your little composition great as well. I particularly like its wonderful friendly attitude and its keen endeavours. Have a great day!
>>66010021
I had 2 years of lessons and recently passed the test for part-time organ players. I should be able to play most Bach pieces, and as long as there's no crazy stuff like chromatic double pedal scales, I can work something out.
One very basic technical thing is:
- Do NOT lift your thighs. That's a lot of unnecessary motion that exhaust you and worsen your aim.
Instead, sit still on the bench, and concentrate on doing a simple downward motion with your foot, WITHOUT raising it first. Only go from horizontal to downwards. (You've got to sit high enough that your feet won't trigger any pedals by default. Also, try to maintain a constant distance between your knees as much as possible)
That'll probably take a few weeks, only practising hitting properly with the tip. The correct spot to hit is the ball of the big toe.
And then you can start going for silent foot switching, turning your body left and right, cross stepping and heel + tip conbinations. Bach has some nice exercises, but those are fairly intermediate..
When I started, I was just repeatedly hitting one note at a time with each foot for a while, first only white keys, later black ones.
Hope that helps a litte.
>>66010422
Thank you very very much. This is much appreciated and I'll keep the thoughts in mind.
Intersting thing is, my organ teacher taught me to keep the knees together. It works for everything I ever had to play. But I still need days of practice till I can play the pedal part right. With my hands I am so much faster, even can play straight from the sheet. Probably I should really play a pedal etude from Bach thoroughly.
>>66010620
or just do the methodical thing.
Left-hand + Pedal, then Right hand + pedal, always slow enough to be in control all the time, and then put it together. It's tedious and boring, but it works.
As for keeping the knees together, that's what I meant. For anything less than a 5th. your knees don't need to move apart, and for bigger leaps, you'll often be doing a silent foot switch anyways, allowing you to return to the default position faster.
I had lots of piano practice, so I tended to rush into the manual part, and couldn't keep up motorically on the pedal part most times. Gotta take this slow, and focus on bringing everything together.
When it comes to Organ pieces, I really like Bach, Mendelssohn and Reger. But there are also some very interesting contempopary/ modern composers, that I can't yet quite grasp in their entirety, like Messaien, Karg-Elert etc. But impressive oevre nontheless!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0C4sq0sWFLn
is this close enough to be considered plagiarism?
>>66008499
Thanks for a great feedback!
>>66012015
whoops.
>>66011322
to what?
>>66011322
close to what? It's just a bicinium with some really unstable lines (5th in the bass) and some weird jumps (two 4th steps at once? ew) what's it supposed to rip off?
when is it ok to use parallel fifths. i really like the sound of them but people say you should avoid them like the plague
>>66012272
punk rock
>>66012272
you should only feel obliged to avoid them if you're trying to emulate the style of the common practice period. Otherwise go by ear, but don't use freedom as a crutch for bad writing. Sometimes they do sound bad regardless of style.
>>66012272
parallel fifths are only forbidden if it's two different voices (as in two instruments, or for example two different keyboards on an organ).
But if a single instrument plays a line that has fifths in it, it can be different. Like power chords in metal, or organ registers that always play an additional fifth. In that case, it's rather a means to amplify the natural overtones (which include the 5th at the 3rd overtone, giving the sound a different quality.)
Furthermore, when the frequencies of two notes of a perfect fifth overlap, the peaks of the combined frequncy is similar to the frequency of the note one octave below the lower of the two. So if you were to play c'' g'', you'll also get a hint of a c'. Now make that c'' g'' c''' and you have a power chord, which are also the overtones of c', and the human ear will perceive the lowest phantom note. But as I said, only on a single voice.
>>66012054
>>66012110
thanks
>>66012272
Basically this senpai, >>66012522
BUT also note that parallel fifths are meant to be avoided in traditional counterpoint and current voice leading due to the fact that it weakens the strength of the individual voices and robs them of identity (look at the overtone explanation on the post before this), thus rendering your voices weak and rather dispensable.
if, however, this is an effect you want to achieve, or if the voices being individually strong isn't your goal, go ahead and use them. it's all about context.
as said before, I think more people should read the rimsky-korsakov guide in the OP, it explains a lot of these questions, it's probably the best resource linked in the OP IMO
>>66012522
>>66012602
ive heard people write for chorus and put parallel fifths in the basses and its one of my favourite sounds. is it good to write like this or is it a meme?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtKnebu5Ars
3:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGc-Tu_1yGw
they are everywhere here
also i have the rimsky korsakov guide but i havent read it yet. it just came in yesterday
>>66012717
Thanks for giving us an example of what you like!
Notice in the first example the effect that is caused by the parallel fifths. It's as though the 4 voices became one! This is the magic and application of parallel fifths, and how, in my opinion, they are used most adequately (in music that is more traditional).
>>66012602
yep, this.
Was just looking at Karg-Elert, and it may look like it's 8th and 5th parallels all over the place, but you have to pay attention to the notation. it's not separate voices with different stems for evey note of the chord, so it's basically 2 voices, being huge chords at the beginning.
https://youtu.be/aRIXtyq-WYA?t=40s
>>66012717
same applies here to a degree, at times, the composers "fuse" multiple or all voices into one voice with some more its overtones. Especially visible when they're splitting one voice group like the tenor or bassi.
