Why does people suddenly like this album?
I've always liked it, but it recently went from hated to loved
I've always loved it
I've always loved it
You kidding me? Everyone loves Dookie.
I think you're confusing Dookie with Nimrod.
I've always loved it
I listened to it a couple of years ago and it was fucking horrible. How anyone can like pop punk is beyond me
>>65866400
I'm not confusing it with Nimrod, even though I think Nimrod also is a great album
>>65866357
>Why does people
>>65866592
/mu/tants then. Whatever boi
>>65866357
Most people say Dookie is the best of all their albums. Friend said Dookie is their only good album, didn't have the patience to explain how autistic that was.
>>65866425
It's a more centralized and refined sound of punk. Certain bands have ruined the genre with it, but I love green day and even Blink has its moments
>>65866768
this.
Nimrod is criminally underrated
American Idiot is literally an amazing musical achievement.
and Dookie is a classic
>>65866715
That wasn't the problem. You used the word, "does". The correct word is "do".
>>65866823
Ah. English isn't my native language (obviously).
Green day has been out of the limelight long enough for it to be ok, if you talked about dookie back when shit like 21 guns was on the radio the two would be associated.
>>65866357
i've always hated it. it's generic pop punk, derivative of many better bands.
>>65866819
>american idiot is literally an amazing musical acheivement
ITT: summerfags
>>65866869
>a narrative concept Pop Punk Album
do you understand how fucking crazy that sounds
insomniac is better
>>65866801
>centralized and refined
>punk
:')
>>65866869
Well, it's true, about American idiot. I believe it was 6x platinum, had influence for damn near a whole decade, spawned an award winning Broadway musical. More than you can say for any other album out there.
Dookie is a stone-cold classic, man. People remember "Basket Case" and "When I Come Around," but shit like "Burnout" and "She" and "Sassafras Roots" is killer too.
I mean, shit, just that last song - that could be an early Beatles track if you changed up the instrumentation.
>>65866918
Not that anon, but that's not crazy at all
Pop-punk and coming-of-age stories go together like bread and butter.
>>65866918
okay. a few things.
a continued theme doesn't make an album a "musical achievement." Sure, its not common, but it doesnt make it good (see Dream Theater for an example of this)
the best thing about american idiot is Jesus of Suburbia which basically presents every musical idea the album has. in other words, every other track on it is basically more of the same, in particular Holiday, the title track, etc. There simply isn't enough there.
Lastly, there are actually god awful tracks on this thing. St Jimmy, Extraordinary Girl, Letterbomb, and Homecoming basically serve little to no purpose in the album.
>>65867066
this is too autistic to even respond to. Name one great album American Idiot influenced. Seriously, you can't do it.
>>65867007
People can shit on Dookie all they want, but Green Day used it to single handed bring punk rock back into relevance since the dry spell of mainstream punk in the '80s. Fact.
>>65867104
>Lastly, there are actually god awful tracks on this thing. St Jimmy, Extraordinary Girl, Letterbomb, and Homecoming basically serve little to no purpose in the album.
Except those are the best songs.
>>65867104
Well by influence I more so meant mainstream relevance. It's so musically unique that nobody has replicated this type of sound, like the Doors.
>>65867148
>Letterbomb
>god-awful
fuuuuuuuuuuck outta here
>>65867184
>musically unique
listen to emo. you'll realize it's not unique at all.
>>65867104
Well you say how Jesus of suburbia derails the value of other songs, but you're missing the point. It's a concept album, and there's a lot of theatrical influence. Jesus of suburbia is like the overture of the show- an overture in a musical is a track that has all songs melodies in one track, typically played before the start of the show. It just shows how well thought out this album was, and it really gives it a sense of grandeur in a way.
>>65866869
Faggot
>>65866819
>>65867245
Emo? Like the genre? That's ridiculous. No other album has had managed to show such insane artistic value, been able to resonate with such a large number of people, and just be an amazing mainstream catchy album on the level of American idiot.
>>65867297
tell me you havent seen the sudden decrease in actual discussion of music on this board. Since summer started, we now have
>Blurryface
>Duckposters
>no more spongeposting
>pol bait threads
>/b/ tier threads
>which meme are you? xDDD
i'm not saying traffic increases by that much, but the small amount of people are obnoxious
>>65866357
First it was loved because it was Green Day's best album and once upon a time they were very much a legit punk group.
Then it was hated because it was overplayed.
Then it was hated because it was associated with green day and the preening mess that they became late-career.
Now it's remembered fondly because pop-punk was long enough ago that people can forget all the shitty parts and remember the good parts.
You want to relive the shitty parts?
Good Charlotte.
Simple Plan.
American Hi-Fi.
Treble Charger.
Hedley.
>>65867360
American Football
Mineral: The Power of Failing
Brand New: The Devil and God
just trust me. try these three albums and come back to me. they do everything green day does on this album, but musically better.
also, I don't mean to be rude, but mainstream success means pretty much nothing for artistic value. watch me whip has 900 million views on YT, doesn't mean people enjoy it for its musical prowess.
and just to be clear, American Idiot isn't a terrible album. It's just not perfect.
>>65867107
greenday like nirvana did not bring punk to the masses
once the masses has it its not punk. those two bands sold out punk for their own fame theyre the worst
>>65867500
Ooooooh you're one of those autists who defines genres by its status in the mainstream, not by its actual genre, okay.
>>65867599
Oooooooh you're one of those autists who thinks playing on national television or in arenas is punk.
Its okay millennial, its okay.
>>65867446
Oh man I love those albums, love that Weezer's down syndrome cousin type sound, really shits on American Idiot. And no shit the numbers don't mean anything, but coupled with it being both a political and artistic statement as a whole, makes it impressive. For example, artistically, Smashing Pumpkins new album is FUCKING GREAT, but nobody cares, because most people think that, musically, it's a shit album.
>>65867660
I am a millennial. You're one of those pretentious fags who like to find some reason to disagree so they feel like they are right where everyone else is wrong. Music is music, being mainstream has no bearing on what type of music it is.
>>65867762
Agreed. Wheter it's mainstream or not has nothing to say about the music. It litteraly only says that many people listen to this kind of music.
>>65867762
You cannot be punk and play on MTV or saturday night live or in huge arenas.
I guess according to you justin bieber can perform a punk song and now hes punk or selena gomez can do a cover of sex pistols now shes punk. You don't understand at all
>>65867827
That may change the attitude, but not the music. Anyway, punk has lots of different meanings. They can still be punk and still play for many people and be popular, as long as it doesn't change THEIR attitude.
>>65867878
THEIR ATTITUDE
Do you even know what that means? The attitude of punks is fuck the mainstream fuck all the cattle I play how I want. How can you have that atttitude when MTV is telling you look like this for ratings or when they say play this song instead of this song.
If you are playing for huge stadiums and for the masses You Are Not Punk. You are not playing for you you are playing for them. Being on national television makes me sick because I don't want my music to be heard by a bunch of 40 year old dads or 12 year old girls I want it to be heard by like minded people. People who are not well fed, people who don't have the perfect family. I say fuck all the normies and fuck you for thinking people like all time low or blink 182 can really be punk
>>65867953
not that guy but what is "real" punk to you?
>>65867827
I believe that punk is a mindset, a place of heart. When Dookie came, it resonated with a lot of people, people who had a certain disdain towards society around them. It was Green Day's unfiltered "Fuck you" to everything around them. And that was the exact mindset of a lot of people, especially teenagers of that time, and so it really struck a chord with people. The outcast, the weird crowd. The difference is, Green Day got the leverage to go big, and really say "Fuck you" to everyone, every last asshole that was responsible for their sense of angst, displacement, and rage. They got to win, and everyone who felt the way did, in return, got to win too.
someone post the mirror image cover
>doooob
>>65867953
If they won't let themselves be affected by the mainstream, then yes, it 's punk. And honestly, I can't say that I think that they've changed their music to fit the mainstream.
>>65867974
For me real punk is playing music you like however you want but when it comes to audience I personally believe it should be for people like you not for people the opposite of you. I would like to play for people who feel the same way I do about the world.
If I am a poor bum on the street I don't want to play for a rich dude in a castle I want to play for people who can understand me and my music. I doubt a rich dude in a castle can understand the poor mans plight
>>65867984
If its a mindset how can you keep your anti society mindset working for MTV or another corporate company
>>65868059
Because if nobody fucking hears them, then they don't matter.
>>65868044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqWern73jMk
god help me if my face was ever on a 70 inch screen while playing a concert
>>65868094
How was this related?
>>65867984
>When [album] came, it resonated with a lot of people, people who had a certain disdain towards society around them. It was [artist] unfiltered "Fuck you" to everything around them. And that was the exact mindset of a lot of people, especially teenagers of that time, and so it really struck a chord with people. The outcast, the weird crowd.
That is the definition of "alternative" music. There is a reason it is a genre, and why corporations keep pumping it out. People like to feel they are special snowflakes...just like everyone else.
>>65868089
The mainstream is not the only way to be heard and even if the mainstream doesnt hear you it doesnt matter because many mainstream bands are influenced by the bands that the mainstream doesnt hear
also you don't have to live like a millionare, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism
>>65868131
I don't know if that should be called punk or not because look at the tv screens and the huge stadium. Its like when dave grohl played for the president Obama
>>65868184
do you consider the sex pistols punk?
>>65868184
So you're meaning to say that they've changed their music to fit the mainstream because they were on a big screen? C'mon. They're not Fallout boy or whatever.
>ITT teenagers engage with the punk ethos in only the most basic and superficial level
The heart and soul of punk as a movement isn't rock. It isn't spikes. It isn't a bedazzler. It isn't even rebellion.
The spirit on punk is to think and act, independently, critically, and self-sufficiently.
The spirit of punk is to question everything, including the value of civilization.
In punk, everything is on the table. Everything is fair game. Any idea can be challenged.
The purpose of punk rock (the music) in relation to punk (the cultural movement) is to present a form of art that is both vulgar and primitive, and also appealing. It's supposed to be caveman music that challenges people and force them to question the validity of aesthetic 'progress'.
If something so crude and raw and basic speaks to you in a way which your 'civilized' culture doesn't, then you've either got to confront that, or pretend that you're not enjoying it as much as you are.
Because the punk ethos forces you to question things and evaluate them independently, it leads towards critical thinking... and therefore, over a long enough span of time, some level of wisdom.
Old punks who really understand the movement and commuted to it in some way, end up being legitimately wise.
Those that were just in it for the drugs and partying, and some kind of youthful rebellious phase, don't get this kind of benefit. For them, it's just another outfit, another flavor of culture to consume.
Everyone says they are fucking sell outs, and I'll prove you wrong. Their latest album trilogy did overall pretty shit. They said they were writing for their fans, not the mainstream, they wanted to mature alongside their fans. They came out of their American Idiot era, and decided NOT to make an insanely successful album again, but write what they wanted to write, for a certain audience. Buuuuut nobody really knows that, because they probably don't know the trilogy existed. Everybody thinks they are a fucking expert because they remember hearing boulevard of broken dreams or 21 guns on the radio, and judge them just on that alone.
>>65868271
This.
Pic related and Warning are the best Green Day albums
>>65867362
>Duckposters
I have no idea what that is. Some new flash meme?
You're right though
>>65868214
I havent seen them live but I think they were legit
>>65868221
No I'm just saying I personally someone who hates society and the mainstream wouldnt play in a place like that on TV
>>65868268
wow such knowledge from an elder punk. too bad the genre is shit
>>65868338
They're doing it for their fans. Do I need to say more?
>>65868338
sex pistols were just a marketing ploy by their manager to capitalize on what was going on in the late 70s. american hardcore is real punk.
>>65866357
I don't know, but I have been seeing Green Day and other pop punk bands like Sum 41 getting more unironic praise.
I'm not sure what's changed, but it all sucks
>>65868392
>>65868377
I knew that question was a trap, but I heard their music and I liked it.
>>65868184
Green day WAS influenced by bands that the mainstream didn't hear, because that was the culture of where they lived. Do you think that everyone of their generation really hung around seeing underground punk shows in Southern California? Fuck no, and if green day only pandered there their whole career, still only like 50-100 max people would ever hear their message. They had to go big, or everyone who needed to hear their message never could have. And, to progress as an artist, they need to be successful. They could never have achieved what they have musically if they were still making pre-Dookie garage recordings, I promise.
>>65866357
>suddenly
Where have you been? This is considered the best GD album since it was released.
>>65868476
Was talking about people on /mu/
>>65868433
>to progress as an artist you need to be successful
please define successful what is it to you? Playing in collesiums? Making lots of money?
>they had to go big
>they could have never achieved what they have musically if they didnt go big
so wait going big changes your music? Of course it does because you are playing for lots of people and now you are playing what they want to hear or what Mr. Record executive suggests you play.
>only like 50-100 max people would ever hear their message.
oh please
>>65868353
Well the 'punk' music genre is questionably connected to the cultural movement these days.
The good news is that plenty of other genres take cues from the movement and embrace the ethos, at least in part.
Look at guys like sonic youth, or smog, or even the white stripes (yes I'm serious -- The white stripes)
They embrace the spirit of punk in ways that guys like Green Day simply aren't anymore.
The trick with punk is that it needs to seem vulgar savage and aesthetically offensive to at least half the 'civilized' people who hear it.
But what people find aesthetically offensive is relative to their culture, so it's a moving target as we go forward through time.
What was primal and challenging in 1978 is different from what fills that same role today.
>>65868271
to be honest the recent trilogy was pretty shit tho
>>65868516
making money to continue a career in music. they obviously don't play punk anymore. what's wrong with changing your sound as you grow older and learn new things and experience different parts of life?
>>65868619
I think its wierd when a penniless band just making ends meet can still be under the umbrella of a huge famous band playing on MTV especially when were talking about punk
I am probably dumb but I don't particularly agree with these old rockers still going on stage and playing.
>>65868516
No, musically and artistically successful. Get their message across. The thing about punk is, it needs production value in this day and age to retain relevance, that's just how things are. And going big does change your music, in this case by giving your artistry financial support. Once again, American idiot couldn't have been recorded in their garage. And yes, 100 max. The shows they played back when were pathetic. House shows, birthdays, maybe a shit club. Believe me. And, guess what? The album after Dookie wasn't received well in the mainstream, because they decided they wanted to do a barebones hardcore punk album, instead of feeding the public what they wanted. But you wouldn't take that into account, because you didn't hear about that in the mainstream, did you? Your time line is: -1994, green day sells out, then again in 2004, what assholes. You don't have all the info dude.
>>65868586
My point. That's what most people will say. The trilogy isn't geared towards most people.
>>65868786
Get their message across to who? The nuclear family watching tv? There are punk bands that have followings that aren't mainstream.
I don't care if people want to sell out and be on television and the radio but if they are using the name punk while doing that, what leaves the rest of the bands that just play because they like the music and hate television and radio and the people that watch them?
Its kinda like /r9k/, at first there was the robot (male kisless virgin) then there were fembots with boyfriends then there were robots with girlfriends who still had friends. It makes you think what happened to the original meaning of robot
>>65868894
Well, American Idiot had sort of a double message. Same point, different audience. Firstly, the general public who had a disdain towards the oversaturation of political fear tactics in the media. People identified with that, because they know who the American Idiots were, they were the ones who let George Bush use the media as a marionette to fool them into supporting whatever he wanted, usually using fear tactics. "You better be afraid of this, you should all be afraid of that." Then there was a message that represented alot of millenials. There's this sense of displacement, we didn't know what to believe, and all at the same time, the T.V. fed us a diarrhea stream of political scares, and us, as a generation, was just overwhelmed by everything constantly coming at us. This political media saturation has caused a massive sense of displacement, and that makes the album geared towards my generation as well. And yeah, AI is more so alt rock, but the spirit is still punk (and theres a few punk tracks on the album). It's the exacty spirit of the punk movement. Question everything, critically, on your own. Don't be scared into thinking a certain way, and don't follow the masses like a fucking idiot (in this case an american idiot).
>>65869173
How can the spirit still be punk if you are taking a bunch of shit from MTV people and record executives? Also if you're also being targeted to TV watching americans (dittoheads)
>>65869173
The content might be punk, but musically, it was derivative, overproduced, self-indulgent, and really REALLY commercial.
How the hell can you rail against bush era politics and american consumerism when you're selling branded wallet chains at hot topic?
>>65866768
How does it feel to be more pleb than your friends?
>>65869310
They don't take shit. They had complete artistic freedom, and the only other influence in writing besides the band themselves was their producer Butch Vig, who they seeked out to help them with production. With MTV, it was more of a mutualist relationship. Green Day needed their message heard, MTV wanted dollars.
>>65869320
Umm, well all music is derivitive. At least everything after cavemen grunting and banging rocks. For me, it was just the right amount of produced. But for you, could be overproduced. That's just who we are, bottom line. And the record company collects the Hot Topic monies. Kinda a trade off of letting people actually hear their music.
>>65869457
also this>>65869320
and how could you have a mutualist relationship with mtv I hate them
>greenday wanted their message heard by mtv fans (the same ones that like beyonce and lady gaga)
>mtv wanted money
>So they let mtv milk them for money so they could be heard to mtv fans
sounds like it all worked out
>>65869525
Ok wowowowow back up. American Idiot was 2004, bud. Different scene. MTV was still cool in the early 2000's as more or less a relic of the 90's then.
>>65869576
They still had the real world, true life, mtv cribs and lil bow wow
>>65869627
If you are gonna tell me that MTV is pretty much the same today as it was in 2004, I apologize, but you are a literal fucking retard.
>>65869655
I hate mtv okay even the 90s MTV when they almost stopped nirvana for performing rape me
how can they be punk when they cant even play the songs they want? Its all a ruse.
>>65869695
Doesn't matter. Back then MTV was still considered cool, regardless.
>>65869766
Okay the masses can percieve them to be cool but I a free thinker know that they want money and want to control what I play. If I play for them I am not being punk in spirit because I will be controlled for money.
This thread got really philosophical
>>65869847
Regardless, the record company works all of the MTV shit out. Sorry dude, but that's the industry. Corporations look at your art, and see dollars. But, it's justified because you know that everyone who looks at your art sees it for what it is, and in turn, more people will be influenced to think that way in the long run.
>>65869919
Punk is a philosophy m80.
>>65869964
I'm sorry but I say fuck the industry (full of people like bieber, katy perry, beyonce). I hate them all.
>just the way the world works bro
Nah man, I'd rather be a broke musician than to be with them.
Punk rock is a genre
Punk is a mindset
This thread is stupid
>>65870045
That's okay, and you are too. I give Green Day a pass, because they've built themselves to where they were, honestly, and I believe they've always written what they wanted, unlike the artists you listed. But, I will say, the industry was better then then it is today. All those artists are only relevant in today's industry, which is way different then when green day was massive.
>>65870121
Either you care or you don't you don't. Nice b8 m8, you don't have too much relevance here though.
>>65870148
All right you are entitled to your own opinion I just have a hard time seeing them as punk because it kind of splits it in two
those who are okay with being on TV and having their merchandise sold to 13 year old girls at hot topic and those who hate the TV, the system, and the industry
>>65870314
Yeah. I know you and I could do a lot of arguing, but that's pointless, because we both think the way we do, for a reason. *shrugs*
>>65866357
Dookie is /mu/core now isn't it, Anons?
>>65870587
somwhat new, doesn't know what /mu/core means
>>65870414
youre right you have your own opinion
>>65868786
You sound ignorant as hell
>>65870617
albums that are frequently discussed on /mu/, also lurk more
>>65866841
Speak English or Die
