Lest we forget
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
>In The Court of The Crimson King [Atlantic, 1969]
"The plus is because Pete Townshend likes it. This can also be said of The Crazy World of Arthur Brown. Beware the forthcoming hype--this is ersatz shit. D+"
>Souljaboytellem.com [ColliPark Music/Interscope, 2007]
"Boy do the haters get busy on this 16-year-old. But scrutinize the "superman" matter (look it up) and you'll see that even if he thought he was sneaking something outlandishly filthy onto a pop record, his fans thought he was inventing a dance that involved flying, thus furthering the presumption of innocence so crucial to his cute. Unlike his crunk forebears, he's not into pimping or dealing or even strip clubs--"Booty Meat" is as explicit as his carnality gets, and not only is he looking not touching, he's hoping an amateur will "turn around just like a pro." He's still boy enough to worry about those F's, and the most winning of his many winning songs was written to, and on, his Sidekick 3. There are enough sonic strokes here to keep the wrong bizzer in ringtone rappers for a year. But Soulja Boy's spiritual secret is that with less subcultural support than, say, Be Your Own Pet, he's reached the top of his world on a few tips from ex-partner Young Kwon and the loyalty of human sidekick Arab. You can hear how tickled he is about it. A-"
Christgau is a toefucker
Which one ended up being more relevant to culture?
We already know that he hates prog
grow the fuck up prog-rock fans
>>65660577
They're incapable of growing up, their music is too juvenile.
>>65660589
t. indie fan
Xgau's other bete noir, metal, at least is still around. Prog died a long, long, long, long time ago.
>>65660485
Classic example of a person who is notable for being one of the first but not one of the best.
>>65660527
Despite KC's music being great I feel like their relevancy will die due to Fripp unwillingness to negotiate with current technology.
When Fripp dies he'll be greeted with the same lukewarm shrugs from the current generation as Prince x1000. SCREENCAP THIS
>>65660634
Not even close, prog rock is just shite. Musicians who aren't good enough to play jazz or classical music making music that's antiquated, pointless, meaningless.
>>65660485
Gentle reminder that if the critic you're reading hasn't demonstrated a knowledge of theory or musical skill, then he's judging music on his emotional reaction to its image rather than its content. In other words, he or she is a pseud and should always be ignored, especially since they tend to attract fellow pseuds
See
>>65660527
for an example of an amateur critic judging music not on its content but on how others react to it. It's a disturbing trend that you can see being fulfilled every day here on /mu/, a known pseud board that treats pop music like a fashion accessory
>>65660485
>Beware the forthcoming hype
>goes on to highly rate following King Crimson albums
l m f a o
>>65660645
>When Fripp dies he'll be greeted with the same lukewarm shrugs from the current generation as Prince x1000
HOW THE FUCK ARE MILLENIALS SUPPOSED TO APPRECIATE PRINCE WHEN HE WOULDN'T LET US LISTEN TO HIS MUSIC!?
I don't know how I feel about this guy. I mean, I feel like he hits the nail on the head just as often as he misses the point completely.
>>65660663
tbf he didn't like Sonic Youth's early albums either and then eventually A Thousand Leaves got an A+
>>65660659
Who gives a shit about theory or skill lmao
Art is about emotion and aesthetics you robot STEMlord
>>65660672
seriously, Prince crushed his own legacy out of pride.
>>65660485
lyl I still get a kick out of the idea of his graying 60-something self listening to mid-2000s Atlanta krunkcore. I gotta give the old fucker credit for his sheer determination to keep up with current music.
>>65660659
So you're saying no critics are valid outside of jazz and classical music.
>>65660485
"If you need some good kush just give me a ring / You'll find me in the Court of the Crimson King"
Well, is it any surprise Christgau didn't like it?
>>65660753
He never did like hippies and folkies back in the day. Crapped on Joan Baez, David Crosby, and friends as much as humanly possible.
>>65660698
Knowledge of theory and skill allows you to appreciate the music in greater detail and understand its creativity, complexity, and beauty on a higher level. An emotional reaction coming from somebody who understands the processes that allowed that emotion to emerge is more valuable than the childlike and ultimately superficial emotions of the ignorant.
I don't study STEM, but your intellectual insecurity directed toward those who do strikes me as the behavior of somebody who is willfully stupid.
>>65660728
No, I'm saying the overwhelming majority of pop music critics are pseuds interested in the image and lifestyle of musicians rather than music itself.
>>65660806
>No, I'm saying the overwhelming majority of pop music critics are pseuds interested in the image and lifestyle of musicians rather than music itself.
But what critics actually demonstrate an understanding of music theory/history?
Man, was it a huge letdown for him that Neil Young went soft on Ronald Reagan.
>>65660804
>Crapped on Joan Baez, David Crosby, and friends as much as humanly possible.
My respect increased for him.
>>65660577
I don't like prog and Christgau is a dumbass
>>65660857
John Lennon (another Christgau hero) was on the verge of going full redpill at his death.
>>65660818
Alex Ross
Maurice Kufferath
Charles Acton
Richard Taruskin
>>65660911
None of them are pop critics retard.
>>65660857
>literally judging musicians on their politics rather than their music
This is exactly what I'm talking about--lazy, superficial analysis that has little to do with the quality of the art created and everything to do with his own personality.
>>65660923
Pop critics are pseuds and pop music is made by and for the unintelligent. What aren't you getting about this?
>>65660878
TBF Joan Baez sucks the big one even if her voice is still fantastic for a 70-something woman.
>>65660923
Also, Alex Ross and Charles Acton have written on pop music before
>>65660961
Well, you gotta understand that Xgau did write for the Village Voice which was a DailyKos-tier outfit so you gotta throw in the anti-Republican butthurt there to keep your job.
>>65660857
Yeah it's a little weird. Neil Young was kind of cool with Reagan but he couldn't stand either Bush.
>>65660806
What you're saying only applies for the more academic type music.
>>65660659
What the fuck? A good post on /mu/? Is this 2014 /classical/?
>>65660698
Emotions and aesthetics arise from the skill used to produce them, have no skill and you have a broken aesthetic.
>>65660728
The critics that write for classical are usually the most informed about their pet art form, jazz critics are usually hit (Ted Panken) or miss (Ben Ratliff, Stanley Crouch, Amiri Baraka), pop critics are almost always miss.
>>65660818
Even the worst jazz and classical critics have at least some contact with theory and history.
>>65661086
>have no skill and you have a broken aesthetic.
source?
>>65660961
>This is exactly what I'm talking about--lazy, superficial analysis that has little to do with the quality of the art created and everything to do with his own personality.
Yes: this is why Baraka is a failure, for inserting politics into his criticism of the out jazz scene of the 1960s and in the process forever warping the critical analysis of that era of music and killing careers in the process.
>Pop critics are pseuds
Sure.
>pop music is made by and for the unintelligent
What are we talking about when you say "pop"? I hope this doesn't include someone like Cole Porter who wrote for 30 year olds that knew their theory, and could be appreciated by anyone. Pop is kind of a broad subject to make a claim like that.
>>65661051
He's one of those oldskool blue collar Democrats.
>>65661112
You need a source for that?
How about you show me good music made by someone with no skill in music.
>>65660961
>>65661007
Then why did you disagree with what I said here you fucking teenager >>65660728
>>65660806
>is more valuable than the childlike and ultimately superficial emotions of the ignorant.
Inspiring childlike awe is the noblest aspiration of art. Laughable that you dismiss any aspect of the visceral as "ignorant" and "superficial". Step down of that high horse, switch off your classical and come live with the rest of us proles you faggot. We enjoy ourselves more.
>>65660527
ITCOTCK probably. soulja boy was a fad.
>>65661192
>Inspiring childlike awe is the noblest aspiration of art
These are the people we share a board with?
I admit, I've never been a fan of the punk/college rock he jerks off to. He whines about pretentious art rock and slobbers over basic 4/4 popshit, yet he thought REM, Pretenders, and other New Wave shit was more listenable than Def Leppard?
>>65661215
Just stay in /classical/ if you don't wanna be dirtied by the proles
Reminder that /classical/ is just old recording fetishism nowadays and in no way is capable of understanding or appreciating classical music.
>>65661241
I don't know enough about classical beyond what I like to contribute to their threads, and the jazz threads are usually people first getting into the music. It's pretty disappointing
>>65661209
Whut. Soulja Boy influenced practically every rapper this decade. If anything, you ought to give Christgau credit for being in his 60s and still being on the ball enough to notice that SB was setting trends.
>>65661268
True, they died when the old guard left. Tallis went to /lit/ and CLT is throwing molotov cocktails at leftists
>>65661234
>yet he thought REM, Pretenders, and other New Wave shit was more listenable than Def Leppard?
they are
>>65661234
All the critics jerked off to New Wave back then. Shit, I'm more of a poptimist than Christgau because I'd rather listen to Kiss - Lick It Up than some REM track whining about Ronald Reagan. At least the former is just about having a good time instead of trying to sell me on the band's retard-tier beliefs.
>>65661171
Because most valuable music critics can't be limited to just classical or jazz, as they also occasionally write on outside genres such as traditional and pop. Please note: a music critic who writes on pop and an exclusively pop music critic are incredibly different things. The former requires knowledge and insight of music, while the latter produces criticism of mass-marketed products for mass consumption and needs only a media outlet to bankroll him.
>>65661407
Christgau actually said he doesn't write about jazz that much (even though he loves the stuff) because he doesn't really know enough about music theory and composition to make any intelligent statements on it.
>>65661148
Are you trying to imply Baraka isn't an intellectual failure? Speak clearly.
>What are we talking about when you say "pop"? I hope this doesn't include someone like Cole Porter who wrote for 30 year olds that knew their theory, and could be appreciated by anyone. Pop is kind of a broad subject to make a claim like that.
Pop music is music that is created to be recorded and sold en masse rather than for composition and performance. Cole Porter physically wrote music that could be interesting when read rather than simply sold en masse, making him a genuine musician
>>65661438
He should do the same with pop and rock
>>65661438
must explain his constant butthurt about art rock. he can't mentally digest anything that's not 4/4 and shorter than three minutes.
>>65661539
>>65661407
There are no good critics of classical music who also have insightful critiques on pop music. Alex Ross is barely even a classical critic, he's an outsider.
Why do you insist upon showing off how little you know
>>65661539
>Are you trying to imply Baraka isn't an intellectual failure? Speak clearly.
What? I mean what I said. Directly in regards to free jazz of the 1960s, he's a failure for inserting politics and a menace because his views were accepted by the mainstream critical community. To say nothing of his views on race and the rest of jazz.
So what kind of music would you say Cole Porter was writing?
>>65661346
They're good as camp. It is good for a chortle to listen to early 80s college rock blaming RR for the the decline of the Rust Belt when the nitwits doing the singing have no actual clue about the complex socioeconomic factors that had been going on for decades to lead up to that.
But then as Gene Simmons said, who the fuck gets their political opinions from rock stars anyway?
I don't like prog either though I'll never share Xgau's dislike for metal.
IAF, the guy did shit on plenty of bands that deserved it like Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Air Supply, and Bon Jovi.
Black Sabbath [Warner Bros., 1970]
The worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter--bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos, everything. They claim to oppose war, but if I don't believe in loving my enemies I don't believe in loving my allies either, and I've been worried something like this was going to happen since the first time I saw a numerology column in an underground newspaper. C-
eh...
>>65660713
he said in some of his 80s columns that his continued enthusiasm for new music bewildered some of his peers.
>>65660485
It's actually frightening how fucking clueless this hack is.
>>65660804
he loved the grateful dead though. dont make sweeping generalizations with Xgau
>>65662372
yes
>>65662415
Nobody said he's not a huge inconsistent flip-flopper.
>>65661294
>CLT is throwing molotov cocktails at leftists
did his autism burn a hole through his frontal lobe?
Dude's just a little too enamored of punk for my taste. I mean, punk rarely has decent musicianship and it's also political most of the time. Sometimes we don't always listen to music to be preached to, y'know?
his reviews just seem like he only likes music for the aesthetic/message instead of the music
he drools over punk, hates prog and art rock.
seems like anything that is seen as "lofty" or has high artistic aspirations is seen as automatically pretentious to him
it's weird because i do agree with him on some things but he's just such a fucking hack
critics in general are such garbage
>>65660698
average libtard philosophy
>>65661112
it is self evident
>>65665256
All critics are like that. They value the message over the music while everyone knows you don't listen to AC/DC for their great, thought-provoking songwriting, you listen to it for Angus and Malcolm's guitars. Go listen to Bob Dylan if you want lyrics.
Ok so we've established that Christgau does not like:
>anything over 3.5 minutes in length
>anything with lengthy guitar solos
>anything about death and dying
>cockrock
>anything with metaphorical/symbolic lyrics
>West Coast hippies
>>65665256
>it's weird because i do agree with him on some things
I agree with him that prog blows and Eminem is dope.
>>65665964
>anything over 3.5 minutes in length
he loves the shit out of afrobeat and qawalli
>anything with lengthy guitar solos
didn't he give just about every classic Grateful Dead album a positive review?
>>65665964
>anything about death and dying
A: Johnny Cash - American VI: Ain't No Grave
A-: Warren Zevon - The Wind; Neil Young - Prarie Wind
>anything with metaphorical/symbolic lyrics
Jimi Hendrix
>West Coast hippies
A+: Sly & The Family Stone - There's a Riot Goin' On
A-: Love - Forever Changes
