Hello again, faggots. Well, you know what to do. Post questions, thoughts, even your own compositions, finished or unfinished. Don't be afraid to post long blog posts. These threads usually don't survive for very long, so anything related to compositions is fine by me.
Pasta:
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. But remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any art music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps, and please post accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
>Theory
http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html
>tl;dr version
https://gumroad.com/l/tldrmusic#
>Basic composing
[YouTube] How to Compose Music - Lesson 1 - How to Write a Melody (embed)
http://composer.rowy.net/
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
>Score Preparation Guide
musiciandevelopment.com/2016/05/16/how-to-prepare-a-professional-score/
>Orchestral Preparation Guideline
http://mola-inc.org/article/Music-Preparation-Guidelines-for-Orchestral-Music.pdf
>Takadimi: A Beat - Oriented System of Rhythm Pedagogy
http://www.takadimi.net/documents/TakadimiArticle.pdf
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Musictheory.net - General music theory with accompanying exercises and tests. Great for practice.
https://www.musictheory.net/
>Succint but insightful theory up to contemporary techniques such as serialism and set theory
http://learnmusictheory.net/
And feel free to expand!
Also, I vote we do challenges. What do you guys think?
A challenge was posted in the last thread. I'll post it here.
>Challenge: write a dramatic piece that uses every scale degree except for the tonic. You may only use the tonic at the very end of the piece.
>It can be as long as you like, and as simplistic as you like, as long as the tonic is only reserved for the very end. If you want to be creative, you can also modulate, but you still may not use the tonic of that key. Go.
bump of support!
Working on ye olde fugue again...
Trying to make it past the 1 minute mark
>>65528688
in the melody? or in the harmony as well?
>>65529152
probably both, this is what I got so far after a couple hours, tell me what y'all think of it http://vocaroo.com/i/s0t3kKjyHM7R
>>65529773
honestly seems like a modulation, and with this prompt that's not very surprising.
So is C supposed to be the tonic? It's true that I couldn't hear any until near the end, but I started hearing Cs within 30 seconds of the end, which isn't exactly the "very end".
It was interesting, I liked it
>>65530031
well thank you, yeah it was mainly in C. I may have overdone the Cs near the end. I wanted to be creative with it, after all. do you have absolute pitch? I've always wondered what it must be like
>>65530163
I do.
Not really sure how to describe what it's like, as I don't know what not having perfect pitch is like.
>>65528688
>It can be as long as you like, and as simplistic as you like, as long as the tonic is only reserved for the very end. If you want to be creative, you can also modulate, but you still may not use the tonic of that key. Go.
>that key
The original key? The new key?
>>65530318
New key.
Hey /comp/. Here's something I made in harmonic minor. Please tell me what you what you think of it: https://clyp.it/pcvsr2qe
Thank you.
>>65530344
Quite interesting sounding, actually. You were the guy from a couple threads ago, right?
>>65530558
That's right. I made that weird tribal thing and that one piece about digesting a burger. Also talked about Zappa a lot.
Though it's not particularly needed now, bumping for peace of mind as I go to sleep.
>>65528763
How long should a fugue subject be.
>>65531126
It was supposed to be "?"
>>65531126
it can be as long or as short as you like. anywhere from 2 bars to 10 bars.
Thats just a rough outline, not all fugues follow that form. Most have 4 voices.
Look at some bach fugues to get a feel for them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w76Bsxs6qvc
This site is also helpful for looking at the art of fugue:
https://www.teoria.com/en/articles/kdf/
Reposting this again.
https://clyp.it/dqchpj1k
Is it okay to mic a upright piano in a non treated room? My upright is literally in my living room, and I can't move it upstairs because of the narrow staircase. Also, what's a good inexpensive pair of mic?
"bump"
so what is a a good notation software for composing sheet music?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NmRjyXZEzZ
Here's a piece I composed for solo violin and piano called Reverie, based on the melodic motif Eb-C-B-A
>>65534119
Sibelius 6
>>65534561
Wow man this is great. Could you share the score by any chance?
>>65535511
I'd prefer not to share the score, but here's an essay discussing how I composed it:
http://freetexthost.com/dinfs1d3ut
>>65535956
Aw man, well I understand. If you feel up for it please do share.
Also, though it does not fit into a particular key, that motive could be said to just be a portion of the ascending melodic scale in C minor, no? This would include the C, Eb, and with the sharpened 6th & 7th, you get the A and the B. Did you consider this as well?
>>65536752
Damn, I guess so... Oh well, I don't like sticking to diatonicism anyway. Glad you like the piece! If you wanna hear my non-classical stuff then I'm on the bandcamp threads.
>>65531195
Thanks lad i'm trying things hoping it not to be absolute shit
>>65534561
Hey good shit. Was this recorded with live instruments? Sounds pretty damn convincing
>>65534561
>>65538469
Also are you on any of the instruments? Just curious. Pretty damn nice again. I should try something like this with a repeating arp and melody on top. A lot of great ideas and inspirations in this thread honestly
>>65537144
Could you link it here
>>65538497
Thanks! I was playing the piano for it.
>>65539110
It's here: >>65539247
bump, let's hear those compositions
>>65539308
Great work dude. Are you in school at the moment?
I like /comp/ desu
>>65541026
Thank you, bud! I've literally got less than a week until my final exam, and then I'm outta here and can devote myself to music full-time (almost).
Found Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Music Composition in my school library. Feels good です
OP here. Actually surprised this survived the night, thank you all for posting.
>>65542103
I actually got that a year ago. It's pretty good desu.
>>65540440
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0GU1mM8A6XH Here's something I posted a couple of threads ago.
>>65542245
Good work on this, you've got some interesting harmonies and counterpoint, not always consistent, but there are some great moments.
I suppose the biggest thing I could give in constructive criticism is to work on structure, because on a first listen, there doesn't seem to be much to tie it together, either in terms of sectional structure or motivic development.
Neither of these are necessarily mandatory, but it helps to know how to implement the rules effectively before you can break them.
>>65528763
I was trying to write a fugue the other day, and this would've been extremely useful to have then.
First compasses are here, although I don't think it's very good and the MIDI quality is painful.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1yHVm7QrvEw
>>65542406
Well thank you. Your criticism is deserved. I just get a bit too ambitious about these things I suppose, and I don't leave myself that much time for practice.
>>65542833
No problem! I'd try and limit yourself to begin with. Try writing something based around a very small motif, seeing the limit to what you can do with that motif (inversion, retrograde, augmentation, that sort of thing).
Also, impose a definite macro-structure, like sonata form, ternary, theme and variations, or even fugue if you're feeling ambitious (fugue will force you to do a lot with very little material-wise).
Bump. Reminder that I'm always happy to hear people's compositions in this thread and I'm always happy to help even if I do have a somewhat limited understanding of theory.
>>65528688
https://clyp.it/taclsd4k
I put this on finale in a hurry (dinner's getting cold), so just imagine the rubato and dynamics
Feel slightly embarrassed to have a couple of seconds of music, compared to everyone else's several minutes
>>65544532
>Feel slightly embarrassed to have a couple of seconds of music, compared to everyone else's several minutes
Nah don't worry about it. This piece is pretty harmonically interesting to me. The dissonance is really well executed. The rhythm was a bit simplistic, but that's okay.
bumpin with some music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxt3JUThx9Y
What's your favorite key? c/Eb reporting in
>>65547361
A reporting in, how's it going Eb
>>65547425
I've had some major developments
>>65547620
that's always good
>>65547361
In terms of listening:
c.
Followed closely by f#.
In regard to writing for them:
D/d is nice because it's so easy on the cello.
But on the other hand, what I improvise in D/d is kind of boring and stagnant because it's so easy.
I've actually noticed an odd amount of success improvising in Bb minor (bb?) and all of its closely-related keys.
>>65548013
>tfw I wrote a waltz in f#
>>65548013
Call it bb just because it sounds cute
>>65548163
Wanna post it?
vocaroo.com/i/s0LDmTdyKMHF
>>65550993
good job, man. reminded me of Tchaikovsky, likely just for superficial reasons. also those MIDI sounds are makin me nostalgic
>>65542498
If thats a fugue, your subject is VERY short. like 2 notes. The subject should be at least a couple of bars, and outline a chord progression.
I just finished the fugue I was working on for the last few days:
https://clyp.it/e5nuzjxy
Decently happy with it, although some parts sound a little forced. Its a furious fugue as opposed to the tranquil fugues I've been writing recently
>>65552275
this is good
>>65552275
You've posted your progress here before, I've been interested so far and I like how it turned out.
>>65553052
cheers, just shows that if you keep at a piece for days and days, sometimes it turns out ok.
Its a bit "all over the show" for my liking. I prefer the calmer, slower fugues where you have time to soak up each harmony, but eh always good to write a crazy one every now and then.
It begins again with a new subject
https://clyp.it/sbrvhmqe
>>65553918
Added an answer, in the Dominant key. In this case I can just copy-paste the subject, and it works fine (this is called a "real answer"), but if you need to squeeze the answer into the key by lowering or raising certain notes by a semitone (or more) its called a "tonal answer".
pic: I dont usually analyze this much when I'm writing them, but it seems to be working ok. The chords are just rough, probably some more actual chords and inversions in there. Notice the answer starts a fifth above the note the subject ends on. They both start on the fifth scale degree and end on the fifth scale degree so it kind of works out.
https://clyp.it/ojeztrf1
Next up is to write the counterpoint in the first voice, complementing the answer
>>65554172
Counterpoint added. Always takes a while to get this right, even now this might change. If I re-use it its a countersubject, if not its just some free counterpoint.
https://clyp.it/k0wuiqhf
Note that I didn't actually use proper counterpoint rules, just went by ear. I did spot a tritone, but decided to keep it for the vii/dim7 chord anyway.
Also note that I got very close to the answer, sometimes up to the same note. This is quite common and Bach often has voices sharing the same note, as long as they dont cross paths, its ok.
Ideally you want your countersubject to have a very different character to the subject (this could be better imo), and you want to use parts of the subject but transformed to make counterpoint (something I haven't done at all)
Bach gets smart and uses inversions and tiny chunks or his subject all through his counter subjects, but It would take me much longer to work this kind of thing out, to the point of reworking the subject itself, so I prefer to just add the counterpoint that sounds good, rather than using strict inversions and retrogrades of the subject. Ideally it should be a bit of both, and the inversions will work and sound great... if your subject leads itself to that...
Also the transition into the answer should be as smooth as possible, to the point that you dont even notice the new voice entering. I think I've failed in this respect as the changes seems a bit jarring. The modulation could be set up better imo.
>>65554547
In order to make it back to the original key for the entrance of the third voice (this is the standard for a fugue exposition), you need to get a bit creative. You know you need to get back to Cmin, but you're in Gmin at the moment (ending on a V chord - dmaj)
So looking up all the chords in all the keys
(Use a chart like this:)
http://www.guitarbyte.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/chords-scales.jpg
I found that Cmin and Gmin have 2 chords in common. A# major, and D# major. So I can use either of those as my "pivot chord" in order to get back to Cmin.
once I hit the A#major chord, then I can start using the notes from Cmin, and hopefully the transition back to Cmin will be seamless, to make up for the first transition into the answer.
Now to actually write it... I also want to do some sequences so hopefully can squeeze that in. This part I'm about to write is called an "episode" and its essentially a free part where you try to get from one key to another in order to set up the entry of a new voice. This is also a classic thing we see in Bach: Subject, Answer in new voice (and in dominant key), Episode (usually with some sequences), Subject in new voice and original key.
Modulations can be the hardest to write, especially if you want it to sound good, but they also sound amazing if you pull them off well, using pivot chords and smooth lines
>>65554774
https://clyp.it/izaxlucv
Wrote the episode, made it back to Cmin. Even got some pseudo-invertible counterpoint in there (the parts swap melodies)
Now just need to write the counterpoint for the first 2 voices, while the subject is being stated in the lower voice.
Rename this general into /elev/ - Elevator Music and you might get more people in here
>>65555162
I don't get what you mean. Could you clarify for me?
>>65555492
haha u got me
>>65555106
https://clyp.it/gnqsdxsx
Took a break (very important part of composing!) and came back to this.
For the section with the subject in the lower voice, I wrote some free counterpoint in the top voice (although this should have been a bit lower, as it essentially usurps the register of the upper voice, before that voice has entered....)
Then realized I could use the counter subject in the middle voice.
What I should really do is re-write the free counterpoint shit so it doesn't stray into the top voices register... but fuck it.
Once the subject is stated in the lower voice, the answer enters in the upper voice, although its not very "stand out" because my free counterpoint has already deflowered that register.
I'm using the countersubject in the bass in this final section, unaltered except for the last note.
Ends on a V chord, using a nice suspension so it feels more final. This is just something I like to do, kind of a renaissance style of ending a section.
And just like that the exposition is complete. All 4 voices have stated the subject, and there's a cadence to finish off the section. Usually composers will add a whole lot of material between the point where all voices have stated the subject and the end of the exposition, but I've ended it pretty much bang on the last note of the subject.
The next section will be much faster, probably with a dotted rhythm and a variation of the subject. Not sure if I will start that tonight or not.
Hope this gives a bit of an insight into my process. I strongly recommend the ArtofCounterpoint youtube channel, he has a great video on the fugue and actually goes through to make sure all his counterpoint is correct. Great channel, well worth working your way through his counterpoint and harmony playlists if you're interested or feel like you need to brush up on your theory.
>>65547361
C sharp. Very imposing and dark.
>>65528544
Can I compose without music theory/while learning music theory?Is there something I really need to know when composing?
>>65556871
Nice way of shilling your YouTube channel at the end there. Hope it's as good as you say.
>>65557074
eh thats not my youtube channel. Its a good one though, if you can handle his italian accent and lack of knowledge of specific english terms. My youtube channel is full of WIP doom and hexen mods...
>>65557043
just use your ears. If it sounds good, it probably is.
>>65557136
>just use your ears.
exactly what I was going to do but had to make sure I am not miss something.
>>65557162
missing*
>>65556871
Thanks for the info senpai, this is some good shit right here. Keep posting.
>>65541400
What;s your major?
>>65547361
>implying anything greater than Gb Major exists
:'^)
can we add /arr/ - arrangement to this as well? i've been wanting to give myself something music wise to do for the next week or so and i decided on arranging something for myself to play + record and i decided on holst's 1st suite chaconne. i'm arranging it for 2 clarinets, 2 alto saxes, 2 bari saxes, 3 trumpets, 2 trombones, and 2 double basses, but i'm starting to seriously doubt my ability to play these trombone parts. If anyone here plays trombone or any other wind instrument and has a decent recording setup i'd love to collaborate.
>>65528688
senpai, tell me- how much gamerscore will i get along with these achievements?
>>65557136
>>65557162
daily reminder that Taste is more important than Theory
>>65557043
>without
Won't get very far.
>while
Perfectly acceptable plan.
>>65557941
Let's not start this conversation. These threads are pretty good as is.
>>65558279
yes well lets make them even better
are you a ..?
[ ] theoryposter
[ ] tasteposter
choose sides now
Sharing some entry level info:
http://www.clt.astate.edu/tcrist/beaming.pdf
>>65558778
[serialshitposter] ,;^j
>>65544789
>rhythm was a bit simplistic
Yeah, I tend to pore over and polish the intricacies of the harmony and voiceleading until it's solid as a brick, to the detriment of other things, especially rhythmic interest.
I was intending to go back and revise it to be rhythmically interesting, but the voice leading was so detailed and concrete at that point that anything other than block chords would completely ruin it. This happens all the time, now that I think about it.
P M U B
M U B U
U B U M
B U M P
>>65561097
I agree.
Very simple guitar melody, but the focus is more on the lyrics.
https://clyp.it/qa1u3ega
>>65562068
And the lyrics to better understand it
i once knew this thief
hidden in the garden of peace
but he must've been mistaken
he took not the apple that led to heaven
and just a little while ago
i saw him somewhere on the snow
i'm not sure if he was on the go
but his body was frozen; taken by his soul
now i'm sitting by this empty tree
reliving so many distant memories
there's a pond in front of me
same clothes and the same reflection
Woah, this thread survived the night again.
>>65556871
I like this analysis desu. Really insightful and interesting. I'm someone who just puts things together based on what "sounds right" with only an average understanding of theory to guide me, so it's pretty interesting to see someone who really understands everything that goes into what they do.
>>65562068
I like this. There's nothing wrong with simple :). Could use a better recording device, though.
>imblying
>>65557868
Sounds nice. Arranging the piece for what is practical and sounds good must be hard.
banps
bump before this thread falls in the mud
Post more music guys. I'll do shortly
This challenge really got me thinking creatively, strategically even.
It was simple but really interesting.
>>65544789
>le randim banging on piano keys
>literally consists only of whole notes
>This 'piece' interests me
lmao nice
>>65560113
you likely wouldnt know 'rhythmically interesting' until it farted down yr throat
>>65569018
Why you gotta be such a cunt m8. It's hard enough for people to even begin thinking of themselves as composers, why you gotta fuck it up
>>65548163
reee get out u fukkn dance music casual pleb
>>65569018
you're either pretending to be retarded or you're one of those autists who interprets any and all dissonance as "random banging on the keys"- either way, there's plenty of threads on this board for venting autism, why did you pick this one in particular?
>>65569018
>you likely wouldnt know 'rhythmically interesting' until it farted down yr throat
Are you telling me that I'm just too ignorant to comprehend just how rhythmically interesting my submission is? That's really sweet of you to say.
Unfortunately I know enough about rhythmically interesting to recognize that what I posted isn't it. Thanks though.
>>65557648
I'm English so I don't have a major, but music is my main subject and basically everything I do.
>>65569018
>can't into harmonic progression
sad desu
>>literally consists only of whole notes
it literally doesn't
>>65569067
a) composers ARE cunts, m80, and have been for hundreds of years
b) fancying yourself an astronaut doesnt just up and make you one, does it?
>>65569312
because read literally any post itt
>>65569487
no im telling u your tune sounds like a metronome conducting eric whitacre fed through a quantizer
>>65569878
lol harmonic progression is history's oldest pyramid scheme, propagated by the bizarrely common combination of mindless worship of some sandbox rulebook and total delusions of originality-- all the good harmonic progressions have already been done centuries ago so by now the sort of amusical shlock exemplified by the 'piece' 'of shit' currently in discussion is all there is left
>>65570519
wew lad
a true future professor
>>65570519
i'm FUCKING PISSED OFF about the harmonic progression conspiracy guys can you tell that I know more than you lol guys i know what a metronome is please pay attention to me
>>65570519
>all the good harmonic progressions have already been done centuries ago
he actually said it
the madman
bump
/comp/ seems to survive the night (where I live) a lot more often than it does the day.
>>65564940
well, the double bass sound fits the tuba's stop pretty well. and having a fairly sax heavy line up really helps blending the clarinets and the brass
