why do japanese make such good music compared to china and korea?
i cant even name a single chinese artist and most korean stuff seems to be k pop trash while japan has a lot of diverse styles/legendary musicians.
Idk but looking at the Japanese charts, they are more diverse and global whereas Korean charts are just shitty KPop/kip hop.
Because we dropped a fucking atomic bomb on their land that's why
South Korea has a had/has heavy censorship in their media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_South_Korea#Music
China hates the world, for good reason. Why should they be making American music? To say they don't make music is just retarded, it's simply not in-line with your first world modern sensibilities.
You can say what you want about kpop, but Korea has it singing wise. And I'm a jpop fan.
>>64733642
China is shit, yo
chinese people are too busy getting rich or living in poverty. one or the other.
Koreans are all too addicted to internet and gaming to have time for music making
>>64733422
South Korea's government is notorious for censorship in their music and their media. I mean they banned porn there for gods sakes so desperate men have to fap to Kpop stars it's actually fucking really scary and Kpop fans don't see this propaganda
>>64733642
But china is also a 1st world nation.
>>64733873
no they are second world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World
Japan has a homogeneous and unique culture. China is communist so no real growth potential for art there and S. Korea is a terrifying, disgusting abomination of American second rate consumerism
They even aped the circumcision thing
>>64733642
>heavy censorship
>>64733868
>South Korea's government is notorious for censorship
Then explain this
https://youtu.be/bSPXtrJlcxU?t=2686
or this
https://youtu.be/0PLklizL4ZM?t=720
or even this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5HdL_YboBo
There's really good k-indie, you probably just aren't looking for it.
faye wong is really fuckin good but yeah japan destroys china and korea in the music department
>>64733422
freedom bitch
american imperialism
Japan has had the advantage of being a developed, westernized first-world country for half a century whose people are desperate to emulate their western counterparts in every sense (fashion, architecture, music, etc.), usually to great success.
The Chinese pride themselves for not being westernized while paradoxically consuming a fuckton of western culture (primarily pop music and fashion). There are active underground music circles in the big cities (Shanghai, Beijing and Chongqing), but compared to the sheer size of the cities they're in (and the Chinese population as a whole) they're effectively insignificant.
Korea has a strange history with conservatism and censorship. It's still very much taboo to do something like quit your job and start a band. K-pop dominates the musical psyche of the majority of Koreans, so much so that underground music is almost (literally) unheard of. There is nothing stopping a young Korean from giving his parents the middle finger and starting a shoegaze band, but to do so would be social suicide.
>>64734803
Seconding this, good summary famalam
>korean music
>bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDzaunIWBRo
>>64734803
this is probably the correct answer. There are really rigid social mores in Japan, but I think that just pushes artists to deviate more from what is conventionally accepted
>>64733591
This. 70 years of Western influence mixed with a highly specific and isolated culture
>>64734803
there are countless Korean EAI and noise musicians of massive prominence but ok (i do acknowledge your point that they're operating outside of their cultural framework though)
>>64735058
Defying acceptance within Japanese society is becoming more and more common.
Not to sound like a pretentious dickbag but I wrote a thesis about this a couple years ago - Japan is still struggling with the concept of self-identity as a nation since WWII ended, even though that was 70 years ago. Their defeat (more importantly, their surrender) completely wiped out a common sense of nationality and patriotism that the Japanese citizens shared in the war, and any shreds that may have remained after the atom bombs dropped were scrubbed when McCarthy humiliated them by making them adopt an American-written constitution.
Japan, like China, enjoyed hundreds of years of societal norms set in place by the likes of Confucianism and Buddhism. When they lost the war, those norms were no longer applicable because pre-war Japan no longer existed.
This, in combination with the thousands of American soldiers stationed all across the island, let to an unprecedented fanaticism over western culture. If they beat us, they must be pretty good, right?
To a big extent this search for self-identity is still occurring, hence the continued emulation of western culture.
I'm rambling a bit, but hopefully that makes sense.
>>64735280
>massive prominence
Massive prominence within EAI and noise circles or massive prominence with the average Korean? The answer is the latter. Even if the music that they're making is "good," that doesn't make it important.
Japanese noise music is much more important, and better, too. Hell, they practically invented the genre.
China only very recently dropped the communist structure. They're still developing although they've made leaps and bounds of progress in the past decade. Give it another 15 years and there'll be a thriving music scene there.
Koreans are genetically incapable of making anything original so that answers that.
With all that ridiculous censorship I'm kinda surprised with how koreans have produced great, yet often fucked up in themes films
Also there's this different kind of understanding of working ethic you can see in music between Korea and Japan
So it may have to do with this as well
Korea prefers to train the fuck out of the ppl so they perform flawlessly aka the product needs to be perfect (technically). Also did you ever notice how kpop vids get likes and dislikes? The ones with a lower budget and more simplistic content/visuals get a ton of more dislikes than costly visual junk. Their understanding of music is different and yet this kind of understanding is useful for the music industry. Le capitalism face
Japan may have a shitty and exploitative shilling idol pop music industry but their aim is to make the idols 'try and do their best' and it's not deemed bad as long as they're trying hard and putting passion into it
This may also open up avenues for other kinds of music in japan more easily because the idea of music is seen a bit differently and does not let creative acts that aren't as good/trained technically get blocked
What's exciting about Japan is that their culture is so diverse yet unified (the traditional, avant-garde and popular elements getting mixed in together sometimes even)
They honestly seem a lot more open to anything than any other east asian country
Btw China is fucking weird, it's focused on production and work so music is secondary/tertiary
But what's weird about it is that the Chinese say how they love to hear complex music yet adore sappy pop ballads
It's really hard to find something more weird from China. Unless you live there and dig thru small markets I presume. Idk, China is just really odd and in denial of western culture
There's a lot of great Korean indie music
In fact one of my favorite Korean dreampop artists released a new album today
>>64735357
>China only recently dropped the communist structure
bruh you don't know the first thing about China if you think that. The CCP is growing continuously and for a lot of people is still a good way to achieve promotions and raises and create networking opportunities.
Their markets may be freer but the ruling communist party still has total control over Chinese society.
>>64735241
Seconding
>>64735357
Yes this
However I still see them focusing on work and production of essential goods
That part of mentality will be there for long I believe
>>64734616
rec some pls
>>64735458
Yeah but they've basically removed the whole "public corporations only" rule that they had, which was one of the major anchors of their communist regime.
The actual communist party is still growing but really it's just capitalism under the name of communism and denial of western culture.
>>64735496
In the past other countries had a similar mentality, although no one had one as strong as China's. It will eventually go away, after many years that is.
Japan has like 2.5x the population than South Korea. Also, Koreans made some great music before KPOP was a thing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=T0Kz4-1081g
https://youtube.com/watch?v=o8a_Oe5K5Vo
>>64735425
>a lot
Not :(
I keep seeing yukari getting posted here often however when people ask for more korean music recs there are like only up to 15 albums posted around
It's not much
If you live in korea then good you can dig something like that out easier but to westeners its less easy to aquire that and esp the fact that the amount of kiddos who want more than kpop is not big
Koreans are fucking androids and walking propaganda machines. I feel really bad for them.
>>64735393
>China is just really odd and in denial of western culture
rrrrggg this thread is starting to piss me off. Dude, Chinese people know EVERYTHING about western culture.
Hollywood movies that are allowed to be shown in Chinese theaters often make just as much if not more as they do in America. If you turn on the radio in Beijing you will hear just as many American pop songs as you will c-pop, k-pop or even j-pop.
When the Chinese travel out of Asia, they overwhelmingly choose to visit western Europe and America. It's not like some big secret fairy tale land to them.
>>64735549
No, the major anchor of the CCP is the fact that they control roughly 75% of the NPC and thus all public works projects, trade deals, UN relations, economic policies etc. etc.
>>64735636
Yeah China probably consumes the most Western media of the three.
Japan probably the least. It has such a well-oiled domestic machine that it can be surprisingly insular. Most people didn't know who Taylor Swift was until she visited Japan in 2014 or so.
>>64735555
Koreans had more diverse music before indeed
But I wanna see modern bands make experimental music, or at least anything more indie
It could turn out as very interesting projects
>>64735636
Look I said in denial
I'm Lithuanian so I may not make things too clear in English sometimes
Aka officially they try to shove it off
It does not mean that they not so secretly consume it
>>64734581
The few exceptions out of a massively dominated market of consumerism? S.korea is literally N.korea with a little bit more freedom
>>64734616
>There's really good k-indie, you probably just aren't looking for it.
yeah fucking right
if there was, /mu/ would've already been obsessed with it years ago
>>64735708
I don't actually know if the rate of consumption of western media is the highest there, but if it is it would be because of the sheer size of their population. If you compare the percentage of people who regularly consume western media between China, Korea and Japan I don't know who would be on top.
>>64735712
I can agree with that. The government (more specifically the CCP) is not super eager to adopt western culture and western thought, hence the massive censorship.
I've never been to China, but apparently it's incredibly easy to get around the "great firewall" if you really want to via proxies. More and more people are doing that nowadays, especially in the cities where access to the internet is commonplace.
>>64735763
Well for China you have to discount the rural people living on $2 a day.
But the educated Chinese seem way more into Western music, superhero movies, basketball, and other garbage we churn out.
>>64735708
It's interesting how Japan took from western culture and transformed into something else, and then mostly shut themselves off from the world of western music, in particular pop (you can see that simply in their marketing, they never put up full youtube videos in high quality of the most popular groups or stream videos in a way that makes it easily accessible to westeners, unlike south korea for example)
China keeps taking from the west but not giving much in return (not speaking of their ancient culture and traditions)
Korea has a marketing plan most similar to western pop industries' except they go hard on th subject and make it as appealing to the majority as possible
>>64735837
heh, it's kind of ironic that the stuff pretentious, cynical cunts like us shrug off are what's blindly worshiped over there.
while I do listen to more Japanese music than Chinese and Korean music, Chinese music is great
I haven't explored much non-Kpop and non-Yukari Korean music yet but Chinese music is still great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSu3ScV11aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5eybETX2pY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfvPzDYOfD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mei_fYuQBss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDEPlS1PikQ
all great stuff
I definitely need to explore China and Korea's music more desu
I don't think Mandarin is capable of sounding good in music unless its sung by women. And Mandarin sounds horrible in anything that isn't a slow ballad or a traditional folk song.
Cantonese can sound great regardless of gender though, and Cantonese singers actually make an effort to incorporate tones, unlike Mandarin in which tones are simply thrown out the window.
>>64735837
Yeah true, having interacted by a number of chinese, they like the junkiest types of pop culture apparently + they will be like 'yeah i like this and that but sorry!! I have to go work hard now///spend time with my family'
South Korea has one amazing post rock band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUtzgznmslY
>>64735555
70's korean psychedelia was startlingly good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giD__p9ypCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQfuiCkqHeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqUYtqvqJlg
>>64735591
with sites like rym its not too difficult imo
although having friends in/from Korea who know more about music than whats on the radio definitely helps too
>>64735918
My Little Airport are from Hong Kong - totally different in this context. There are countless great indie bands there, and in Taiwan as well.
Japanese society is extremely strict and conformist, so a lot of people feel the need to release all of the locked away self expression and it results in some pretty amazing and unique music a lot of the time.
>>64735918
China has a punk scene in the underground going on
My little airport is taiwanese, which is a lil different. I've discovered a bigger variety within taiwan in terms of music and people's tastes (they also seem to accept western stuff easier)
Traditional Chinese music is awesome but it's kinda hard and disorienting to find a lot of it
Faye Wong is literally one of the few Chinese pop artists that produced more than currently popular le sad passionate piano ballads.
>>64736024
>new album out in June
get fucking HYPE
>>64734803
>>64735294
What surprises me about Japan is how receptive they are to harsh textures, ranging from shoegaze to metal to noise. Is there something specific to Japanese culture (what there is of it) that allows them to embrace such abrasive music more easily?
>>64736073
Dude I binge on rym releases because those are like the easiest to find and have more slsk/torrents. I'm also a user of asian-only torrents and it is helpful but a lot of ppl keep uploading kpop and video material in there still
I'm really eager to experience more of asian avant and trad stuff and not just in music but it's often blocced by prominence of pop and distance/poor accessibility
>>64736229
They literally cut out their own entrails and had their beloveds chop off their heads as a means of restoring honor for an entire arc of their history
>>64736229
No clue. Even some traditional Japanese music is super jarring to western ears (gagaku for example).
Japan is also a very urban country, and thus the average citizen is used to high levels of noise around them basically all the time - at least when they're on the street.
I'm talking out of my ass, though. I really have no idea.
>>64736229
It's interesting how Japan has the 'don't stand out' thing going on within the society (mostly in terms of business, everyday life, general behaviour and ethics) yet can easily have extremes
>>64736251
I'm assuming you have a jpopsuki right?
I feel like there's a lot of great underground stuff there if you're willing to dig, I've found some really cool stuff that's seemingly nonexistent elsewhere on the internet, even on what
>>64736116
yeah I guess that's true
I'll have to go look up more of those indie bands for sure
>>64736139
>China has a punk scene in the underground going on
that sounds pretty neat
I don't think I've heard any Chinese punk
>My little airport is taiwanese
what
is Hong Kong part of Taiwan or am I missing something
>I've discovered a bigger variety within taiwan in terms of music and people's tastes (they also seem to accept western stuff easier)
I should definitely explore Taiwanese music
I think the only Taiwanese band I've ever listened to are Elephant Gym but they're really good
>Traditional Chinese music is awesome but it's kinda hard and disorienting to find a lot of it
yeah I wish finding the stuff was easier but we just have to listen to what we can
>Faye Wong is literally one of the few Chinese pop artists that produced more than currently popular le sad passionate piano ballads
yeah she's really cool
I first knew about her because of Chungking Express which is one of my favorite films and she was great in it
>>64736229
>While Melt-Banana’s roots are rooted in hardcore, punk, and rock – the intro to The Hive is like a sci-fi take on Van Halen – they are often bundled in with the ‘Japanoise’ scene, alongside Merzbow and Violent Onsen Geisha. [Melt Banana vocalist] Yako has a theory about why there are so many noise music acts in Japan.
>“Japanese people like to really look at things in detail. I think people started looking at tiny beeps and pops of static, and they got really into it,” says Yako. “I saw a TV show the other day about old ‘jazz cafes’ in Japan. They were these places where you went just to listen to jazz, and you weren’t allowed to make noises while listening, you just sat there. That’s definitely a strange part of Japan, where people get so intensely into things.”
>>64736278
For literally a thousand years, Italy nailed criminals to frames of wood and had them slowly asphyxiate from the force of gravity, yet they do not show the same receptiveness to abrasive music as the Japanese do.
>>64736329
I think it's exactly that aspect of Japanese society that leads to such extreme outliers due to all the repression
>>64736332
Yes yes
It's a very nice source though I have yet to work my way to get a better ratio on it
I don't have what.cd sadly, maybe will plan to get that in summer
You can sometimes find shit on rutracker if you know the artist, and note that those releases are not even on jpopsuki sometimes
I'm tired of people getting people genuinely interested in Japan always associated with anime/weeb/yellow fever culture it's really annoying btw
>>64736409
>criminals
yup. criminals have been trashed in all cultures in varied ways. but the japs had sudoku for themselves, and out of honor. a very different thing. they were/are fucking hardcore.
>>64736413
It's not quite to the same level, but I think you can make a parallel between that and England, which routinely goes through long periods of conservativism and conformity, leading to bursts of extreme outliers like Throbbing Gristle and Whitehouse.
>>64736229
they are intelligent people. high IQs go for textures and analytical stuff, low IQs go for rhythms and shit you can dance to. normie IQs go for melodies.
>>64733591
>the American creature, naturally, cannot go long without claiming in the name of his country responsibility for everything, nor without a display of military strength and dominance
>>64736467
>but the japs had sudoku for themselves, and out of honor. a very different thing
Are you not aware of the Roman Empire in any capacity?
Suicide in the name of honor was, if not necessarily common, accepted and expected. Cato the Younger disemboweled himself.
Anyone familiar with Julius Caesar should know this.
korean market in a nutshell
>>64736413
Yup yup
Art (popular or avant) is widely accepted there because average people work hard and often in the hierarchical business office setting (b a d) and they just need some relief after a hard day of work
Similarly, there is a nice number of people who do not want to conform to the typical hard working lifestyle so they found more more odd ways to live that allow to express themselves
>>64733591
America dropped an atomic bomb on their own soldiers just to test it some more so I guess that's why they make good music too.
>>64736593
Way to miss the point
>>64736524
>they are intelligent people. high IQs go for textures and analytical stuff, low IQs go for rhythms and shit you can dance to. normie IQs go for melodies.
I feel like there's no basis for generalizing IQs to preference for timbre rhythm or melody but whatever
>>64736630
Nah, they managed to hit the soldiers.
>>64733642
China has also had a strong censorship in the media. I've heard the reason punk got big in certain parts of China was because Chinese people found old Punk CD's in trash dumps.
>>64735593
>:^(
meanie
>>64736544
Damn right nigger
>>64734581
What is this meant to prove? The censorship in their movies has been lifted in the past few decades, it's why South Korean movies are so 'shocking' it is also why their movie industry is in the dumpsters. Look at those movies as essentially soft-core porn, that's what they are.
>>64736066
these are great
>>64733840
>getting rich or living in poverty
Sounds like the USA desu
>kpop trash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j7Umwfx60Q
literally better than the new radiohead
>>64740095
nice meme
>>64740095
terrible bait
There are several weird chinese songs that I love. My guilty pleasures if you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl4yvScFnFk
>>64736229
On related note, can someone explain why so many metal bands come from Scandinavia? People there are supposed to be so happy and content with life. Perhaps it's the cold.
>>64740883
also wondering this
>>64733868
> I mean they banned porn there for gods sakes so desperate men have to fap to Kpop stars it's actually fucking really scary and Kpop fans don't see this propaganda
I didn't realise this. I met a S Korean for the first time two years ago, and he said he learned Japanese just through watching porn. I thought it was weird, because he told me after I was talking with him for 30 min. I guessed he was able to avoid the censorship, and watched Japanese porn.
>>64736524
>high IQs go for textures
>normie IQs go for melodies
So how come /noise/ isn't close to being half as quality as /classical/? Heck, why isn't /noise/ close to being half as quality as /bleep/ even.
>>64735357
>China only very recently dropped the communist structure.
>china
>dropping of comunism
pick one
>>64733422
>and korea?
first because korea doenst exist
what exist is south korea and north korea
>>64733422
Could be worse, could be North Korean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDJwlUNiJBQ
>>64735357
check out a label called tenzenmen if you want to learn more about Chinese music on the ground level, they specifically put out a lot of punk and post rock stuff, it's essentially a conduit for western audiences to more easily access chinese music - i'd say it's pretty thriving
Because China is communist (there's no state, money and classes in China)
