Is hip hop the most clichéd genre in pop music history? I can't sincerely think of one that's less creative or less reliant on technical skill
b8b8b8b8b8b8b8
enjoy prog-rock!
You've obviously never heard 1980s rock music
uk garage
pop hip hop?
probably
non-pop hip hop?
no
>>64676038
1980s rock musicians knew how to play instruments and compose pop songs
Rappers don't
>>64675445
rock, metal, dance, country, western, mainstream pop, etc.
>>64678492
Anyone can play guitar. Literally
It means nothing
>>64678618
...are all genres regularly plagiarized by hip hop.
>>64678492
>>64678655
That doesn't have anything to do with hip hop being "clichéd".
>>64675445
yes
>>64678648
Wrong, knowing how to play an instrument is a sign of dedication, knowledge of music, and possibly talent. If you don't know how to play an instrument then you're not a musician.
>>64675445
hp hop is probably one of the most radical genres of music today
>>64678648
Strings on wood. Gtars are overrated. I would rather make music with rocks.
>>64678709
yes
you might be a composer.
lol
>>64678696
It has everything to do with creativity and technical skill. Please don't @ me if you're incapable of reading the OP; I criticized hip hop on multiple fronts.
>>64678729
Is that a joke? It sounds like you don't know much about music composition
>>64678740
Knowing how to play an instrument doesn't make you creative or technically skilled.
>>64678711
*hp hop is probably one of the laziest, most superficial, and most commercial genres of music today
ftfy
>>64678709
so if somebody has been making beautiful synthesizer compositions all of their life and has no idea how to play an instrument, are they not a musician according to you, despite making music?
>>64678729
Name one composer who doesn't play an instrument.
Yes. You just need to learn how to loop drums and say the lyrics really fast. Too bad neo-/mu/ is in denial and thinks you need the same level of skill as a nuclear engineer to use a drum machine.
>>64675445
no
>>64678765
Knowing how to play an instrument is essential for musical creativity and technical skill. It is impossible to be a technically skilled musician without ever having touched an instrument. If you don't know how to create sound, you have no framework for expressing broader ideas and emotions. You also don't know how to produce creative music because you don't know how to create music in the first place
>>64678774
Weird post. A synthesizer is an instrument
I can think of punk music or dada and outsider art if you want less technically skilled, at least in the traditional sense
>>64678839
I don't disagree with any of this. What fucking point are you trying to make? You do understand that instruments are used in hip hop, right?
>>64678648
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
>>64678859
What about singers? Do they count as musicians?
>>64678648
>>64678727
>a type of instrument is available to a variety of consumers and artists
>automatically makes it bad
I bet you fucks never touched an instrument in your life. Just because you listen to songs doesn't mean you somehow absorb the artists' talents magically. Fucking hipsters go fondle your kazoos and sitars in the moldy corner you butts belong at.
>>64679153
Lol I play several instrruments you dick. I just that it someone doesn't validate my music more than anyone elses.
>>64679180
Holy hell that sentence was a mess, what I meant was:
I just realise it doesn't validate my music more than anyone else's
>>64679180
Can you type whatever the fuck you were trying to type again? In a way a human being can understand this time, poo in loo.
>>64679188
>"Strings on wood. Gtars are overrated. I would rather make music with rocks."
>"I just realise it doesn't validate my music more than anyone else's"
Hypocrite.
>>64679235
Literally not what I said at all. Anyone can play most western instruments to a competent enough level to play in a band or write decent music. Just look at any pop artist who decides to folk it up. It means nothing, stop thinking it makes you superior
>>64678492
Most rock musicians can't even find their way around an mpc, what's your point?
>>64678729
you do realize that most composers are profilic in various instruments like violin and piano. AT LEAST.
>>64675445
No. It either has the worse record of bad album covers to come out of a genre or the best. It's the only genre I know to do both at the same time.
>>64678952
>denial
>>64675445
EDM
>>64675445
>Hip Hop doesn't require skill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21t5jsWV2ec&list=PLw0ALlxhMy4M4sGX-h36heB3KvDz5mG0A&index=7
>>64675445
Anything related to contemporary djing.
It takes no actual skill ffs, you Can literally create music by smashing your Face on the console
>>64678492
Not really..
Only knowing how to play a few strings on a guitar and sing with only hitting simple notes isn't a lot of technical skill.
Stop listening to what your dad says and realise he doesn't even know much about music.
>>64678709
>Knowing hot to play a few basic things like most punk rock and pop rock musicians makes you a musical genius.
>>64678771
>Real hip hop
>Commercial
>>64681820
>doesn't post hip hop
This is still bullshit and sounds like what mostly gets posted in Soundcloud threads. Disjointed musical nonsense. Very clearly copied and pasted bits of other people's music.
>>64678839
>What is turntablism
>>64682562
Stop comparing the worst guitar players to the best electronic producers. I love how you bullshitters do this. Anyone that says playing a musical instrument doesn't require a significant amount of skill is literally a dumbfuck and has no idea what music is.
>>64682619
Turntablism is like the Steve Vai of electronic production. No one is going to say that it doesn't take an obvious amount of skill, but it's also fucking useless, gimmicky wankery.
>>64682603
It sounds just like hip hop.
Any real hip hop head knows who DJ Shadow is..
You are just ignorant as fuck.
Real hiphop heads are not the kanye fan boys on here.
>>64682673
Uh no you've purposefully moved the goal posts and posted an instrumental wank track instead of the vocally centered hip hop you fucking know everyone is talking about. It doesn't matter if ur so kool that u kno who dj shadow is you faggot, being well known doesn't make you any more talented or groundbreaking.
>>64682629
But most popular punk rock musicians and rock guitarists of the 80s only play about 3 or 4 simple strings.
Rock music was a rebellion against the idea that you need a lot of talent to make music so they made music that was simple to make.
>>64682657
>Turntablism
>Electronic production
What?
>>64682705
>most popular punk rock musicians and rock guitarists
>[no source]
>3 or 4 simple strings
>simple strings
lol you have no idea how guitars or music works. You've also implied that "rock music" started in the 80s.
>>64682732
Uh yeah - producing music using electronic means as opposed to playing electric or acoustic instruments. You fucking faggot.
Look how untalented hip hop musicians are.
>>64682746
Turntablism is no more electronic than electric guitars with all kids of special speakers and filters..
God you are dumb kid.
Objectively speaking there is no skill or talent involved in hip hop. Speaking rhythmically in time with a beat you stole from a song someone else already composed is not a talent. Feel free to prove me wrong though, rapcucks.
>>64682735
Yeah, no I love hendrix and chuck berry.
You are mistaking me for a one gernre idiot fan boy like yourself.
Anyway check out how little talent this guy has.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc
>>64678648
>>64678794
>>64679153
It's better to know how to play an instrument than to not know how to play one.
I can play virtually any instrument and make music even without them.
Some of the forerunners of hip hop actually knew how to play instruments and compose with them, much of modern hip hop is generic cut and paste stuff that has lowered the skill floor, so the quality of music suffers.
LISTEN TO THIS YOU FUCKING IDIOT REEEEEE
>>64682603
>doesn't post hip hop
>doesn't know what hip hop even means
>very clearly copied and pasted bits of other people's music
> doesn't know what a sampler is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE3FrVbqqm0
>doesn't know what scratching is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc
It's funny how all you kids who only listen to music your dad showed you think the muscians who made that music would have the same shit opinions as you.
Most musicians have a deverse appreciation of music.. Plenty of rock musicians have an appreciation for hip hop and plenty of hip hop musicians have appreciation for rock.
Here is Axl Rose wearing an NWA hat.
>>64682819
HAHAHAHAHA
>taking music someone else has recorded IN ITS ENTIRETY
>putting it on vinyl
>scratching the needle across said vinyl to make kOoL SoUnDs
>build an instrument from scratch
>plug it into an amplifier
>play notes on strings with your hands
yeah totally the same thing you fucking dunce
>>64682830
>>64682867
Already commented on this bullshit >>64682657
>>64682867
Look dumbass, you know what this thread is about. You're moving the goalposts in a feeble effort to prove that hip hop takes more skill than playing real instruments. It's not working. I know what a fucking sampler is, stop acting like pressing a button that triggers a sound isn't the same thing as copying and pasting it.
>>64678655
What hip hop artists plagiarize metal? Because I want to listen to them.
>>64682888
OH WOW A HUGE FAGGOT 80s ROCK SINGER LIKES NWA HOLY SHIT
>>64682955
not him but hip hop requires tons more skill than strumming 3 chords on a geetar
show me a rock musician who can find his way around a studio
shit, show me one who can use a fucking sampler
>>64682955
>I don't understand what turntablism is
I shortened that post for you.
Can someone make this autistic dadrocker shut up?
>>64683034
* apart from steve albino
>>64675445
metal
Honestly it's really funny how you all think dad rock musicians would sit around bitching about hip hop with you and think you are cool.
Aerosmith collaborating with Run DMC,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk
>>64683034
>muh strumming 3 chords meme
You're gonna have to think of something else retarded to repeat over and over again
And are you fucking serious? Show me a hip hop musician that knows how to properly dial in a compressor - or hey wait, how about multiple kinds of compressors? Do they know how to use an EQ that's more complex than the one on their iphone?
And you cannot be serious about using a sampler. Literally finger drumming.
>>64683047
Sorry man, I've got eyes and ears. I can plainly see what turntablism is. It's a huge gimmick.
>>64683077
Steve Albini is a faggot and sucks analog's dick
>>64683118
The thing is struming 3 chords isnt a meme.
>>64683118
>Show me a hip hop musician that knows how to properly dial in a compressor - or hey wait, how about multiple kinds of compressors? Do they know how to use an EQ that's more complex than the one on their iphone?
um
dilla
madlib
alchemist
pete rock
premo
epmd
jay electronica
el-p
i could sit here all day honestly, hip hop is way in front of rock for innovative studio tricks (because they treat dub as a serious genre unlike you rocktards who think a studio is something an engineer should be employed to operate)
>>64683148
Why can't you appreciate both genres like me?
>>64683175
i do but to me gorguts obscura is a good rock record
i bet the guy i'm debating likes some fucking awful buttrock and probably thinks butch vig is a good producer
that said some rock engineers are god-tier, alan moulder for example
>>64683148
And how do you know that any of those people have any knowledge of studio equipment?? Or are you just assuming in order to make your point hurr durr
And hey, yeah you might need an engineer around when you're trying to build sounds from the ground up instead of uh copying and pasting completed recordings other people have already made LOL
>>64683141
It's a stupid /mu/ meme that ignores thousands of musicians that don't play guitar like that and in fact make an effort to avoid it. It's just trying to say "nuh uh boom bap music isn't all the same like ur THREE CHORD GUITAR ROCK" when literally 9/10 hip hop tracks have the same beat and bass line for the entire song
>>64683203
They are the kind of people that think they are super edgy appreciators of music and fine art for listening to their dads old rock records but don't even know what jazz is.
>>64683211
because i can hear it, lol
it's funny because hip hop has been all about muh expensive compressors for like 20 years
you could have got away with saying some of that stuff pre-1987 but not any more
and even then you'd have been dead wrong because people like ced gee were getting better sound using an sp-12, a shitty analogue mixer and some pedals
step your game up senpai
>>64683237
like all eric clapton fans basically
>>64675445
>Is hip hop the most clichéd genre in pop music history?
Classical music is the only music that requires both creativity and artistic skill.
Everything else is for kids.
>>64682867
fukk, shit's out of this world, thanks mate
>>64683211
Do you realise the irony of what you are saying?
>Not all guitarists play just 3 strings to think that is idiotic
>All every hip hop musician does is make simple scratching sounds on a turntable
It's like you don't want people to be ignorant to rock music but you promote and flaunt ignorance to other genres of music.
>>64683257
Classical music is far from necessarily requiring creativity
>>64683242
You can't "hear" someone's understanding of how compressors or EQs work you fucking idiot.
>ced gee
Are you really fucking serious with this shit?
>>64683237
>>64683255
Oh this is so fucking rich. Shocker: you're both 16 and can't play a single instrument
>>64683289
Nope I'm saying
>All every hip hop musician does is make simple beats out of other people's recordings and then layer on copied and pasted bits of other people's recordings
>>64683340
>You can't "hear" someone's understanding of how compressors or EQs work you fucking idiot.
speak for yourself
>>64683329
This has to be a troll post.
>>64683340
Okay, I have tried talking logically to you.
Perhaps one day you will realise that your opinion doesn't make you look edgy and creative and you will be able to face the facts instead of ignoring them.
>>64683257
You're the real og. Of course I'll always prefer jazz.
>>64683340
>You need to play instruments to appreciate music.
This is describes you so well and thats why you are attacking back with an ad hominem
>>64683406
You cannot fully understand or appreciate music without knowing how to play an instrument. You will always be wrong if you're trying to argue against this.
>>64678492
hitting frets is baby mode compared to something like a violin
*yawn* are people on /mu/ `really` that EASY to stump?
Anyway keep thinking that hating rock music makes you look like and edgy appreciator of fine art, because music lovers of all kinds of genres just think you are an idiot.
>B-b-b-but but I play the guitar a little bit.
>>64683431
by the same token
>you can't appraise hip hop without a good understanding of the operating system of an akai mpc
but of course that would be bullshit
>>64683355
It definitely is, senpai. But let's take the time to have an honest discussion with ourselves. Why does he troll? What could he honestly want from us? Attention? Doesn't he have family or friends? Does he feel isolated from them? Is he depressed? Does his obdurate nature transgress social moors on a level that makes him intractable? And does his intractability make it so he believes that there's a fat chance in hell that any of the things that he says are believable with such zealous behavior? This individual deserves both our ignorance and our pity. That is the only way.
>>64683431
I am more focused on fine art and graphic design.
Anyway good luck with badly playing the guitar you are not a real appreciator of music.
You are ignorant an ignorant rock fan boy that parots his opinions.
Music I like
>Classical
>Jazz
>Electronic (Partcularly kraft werk and devo)
>Rock 'n roll
>Blue grass
>Rockabilly
>Hip rop
>Rock
My musical taste is more diverse and greater than yours.
You are not edgy... get over it.
>>64683462
Uh wrong. If hip hop is to be considered music, then it only follows that having a general understanding of how music works that comes from a knowledge of how to play instruments would allow someone to objectively critique it on the basis of its musicality. Understanding how an amplifier works does not make you good at rock music, just like understanding how an MPC works does not make you good at hip hop.
This is the disconnect. We're at a point in history where people's first exposure to music can be to something that was made entirely with samples - music made out of other people's pre-recorded music.
>>64682657
>Turntablism is like Steve Vai
you're comparing a form to artist. That's retarded
>>64682702
>you've purposefully moved the goalposts
>"Moving the goalposts is a metaphor... that means to change the criterion"
How can I move the goalposts when you set the criterion? You said "hip hop" at the start of the thread. Then you redefined it to mean vocal centric hip hop. You're moving the goalposts, not me
Here's Ghostface on an original score with a fucking choir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geF_YpHWPoE&index=1&list=PLNP5w_zmLe2S-dalv7Cj8VH78Xn3QJrTl
And here's Kanye backed by an orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwUXgzjd1x4
I'm guessing I'm about to get something about how a troupe of violinists have less musical ability than some wanker on geetar though
>>64683531
you seem to be preoccupied with 'samples come from records' and oblivious to the craft that goes into doing that well
i can't teach you about it here, but rest assured it's a real thing, and you seem like an idiot
>all these hip hop fags defending >muh nigger beats
>>64683547
>>64683566
Guys guys, it's okay. He's an ignoramus. You don't have to fight anymore. If he thinks that hip hop had no artistic merit then just say "ahhhh okay that's good for you" and just be done.
>>64683515
This cannot be real. Otherwise you've got to be actually 14.
>rock 'n roll
>rock
uhhh
>>64683547
>form to artist
I'm comparing musical wankery that impresses plebians to musical wankery that impresses plebians.
>with a fucking choir
HAHA more like 3 girls warbling his name over top of some sampled drums and organ sounds
And that "orchestra" plays one riff about 20 times on that Kanye track. GREAT EXAMPLES
>>64683566
And you seem to be equating those two processes. Sorry, it's music easier when someone has already produced music for you that you then chop up and rearrange.
>>64683589
Lol your a child in a grown man's body apparently.
>>64683625
>your
>your
>your
>your
>YOUR
Hip hop fans everyone
>>64683612
>"nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you!!! hip hop is fun and helps me look cool!!!!"
>>64683620
>Sorry, it's music easier when someone has already produced music for you that you then chop up and rearrange.
idts actually, as i already siad, to make a rock record you go into a studio and play your one instrument that you play, and the producer and engineers do the rest
with hip hop, you are all of those people
anyway it's not a pissing contest, making good music doesn't necessarily come down to skill, but even if it did, hip hop producers are way in front of guitarists
sorry
>>64683620
Rock 'n roll is a sub genre of rock you fucking retarded idiot... I guess knowing music makes me 14.
You do realise the first cyprus hill album was sampled from cheapo 2 dollar country records because DJ Muggs was dirt poor at the time.
Yet it certainly does not sound at all like a country album.
>>64683675
Differentiating between the two in order to make your list look longer is retard material
>>64683669
>making good music doesn't necessarily come down to skill
Jesus fucking christ can you idiots stop repeating this nonsense? It doesn't make it more true the more you try and shout it. Making good ANYTHING comes down to skill whether it's cars, jeans or spaghetti but HOLY SHIT nope when it comes to music, "everything is good art maaaan"
>>64683752
>Making good ANYTHING comes down to skill whether it's cars, jeans or spaghetti
cars, jeans and spaghetti are not art
posts to a malaysian claymation forum however, are
>>64683752
If it all came down to skill we wouldn't be able to listen to anything but classical and neo-classical and I would no longer be able to enjoy punk rock.
STFU.
>>64683666
Lol I don't even like hip hop man child.
>>64683773
>mechanical engineering isn't art
>fashion isn't art
>food isn't art
Plebian
>>64683822
couture is art
'fashion' is not art
learn what words mean
>>64683802
>I would no longer be able to enjoy punk rock
Oh wow what a horrible fucking thing that would be
Also
>implying only classical and neo-classical require skill
lol
>>64683840
>splitting hairs
>>64683849
you started it :p
>>64683666
Man you really must be underage... I can understand the corrections you made on that poster's grammar, but come on be real did you actually invalidate his point by your response?
>>64683849
Classical and neo classical require more skill than any other genre, including my beloved hip hop.
I am man enough to admit facts, unlike some people.
>>64683885
Technical and creative skill are not the same thing
>>64683929
But classical artists were technical and creative ;p
