Is music an art?
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Is music an art?
>>64584981
What the fuck happened to Yung Lean?
not in its current practice
Saying music is an artform is society's biggest meme
Defintion of art via google:
>The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
>>64584981
sure, when it's actually written by the performers for expression and not written by the "producer" and/or other hired co-writers for a demographic, then it is a product...
>Art
Film
Music
Literature
Theatre
Dance
Painting
Architecture
>Not Art
Video Games
Memes
>>64585180
He listened to Kendrick Lamar too much
>>64585180
The novelty wore off
>>64585369
>no sculpture
What the fuck my dude?
>>64585369
Why don't you think video games can be art? I'm genuinely curious
>>64585408
sorry it wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list
>>64585413
Why would they? Do you think chess is an artform too?
>>64585369
you forgot to put cooking under art, anon.
>>64585413
They are entirely for profit creations controlled solely by corporate empires. Same reason genre fiction and Hollywood aren't art.
>>64585413
Only morons think games are art. Do you think Monopoly or football are art, too? They are just games. Time wasters. Drivel. No merit to them.
>>64585458
>Citizen Kane and The Godfather aren't art
Okay my man
>>64585413
t. fat neckbeard
There is a difference between art and "high art".
Music can be both, but the majority of it only falls into the former category.
>>64585369
>>64585439
>>64585458
>>64585483
>>64585494
I forgot /mu/ is fucking retarded
>vomiting on canvas and screaming into microphone is art but spending hours with coding and graphic design isn't
the amount of work you put into something has nothing to do with it being artistic or not
>>64584981
Music is THE art. Other art forms are only art insofar as they relate to music (or rather the abstract concept of music).
>>64585546
>There is a difference between art and "high art".
>>64585458
Holy fuck stay in /lit/ you pretentious faggot
>>64585578
>but spending hours with coding and graphic design isn't
So Google.com is supposed to be art too?
dean blunt isn't art
>>64585596
Yeah, some pretentious twat who just learned to paint is as much of an artist as someone who has been studying his art for years
Video games are entertainment.
>>64585600
There is a clear difference, anon.
I don't like the term high art, though. I prefer to use fine art or simply calling the other group industrial art or kitsch
The thing is, when most people talk about "art" they're talking about the fine arts. Designing a can of sardines involves art and creativity, but it's not a fine art. It's kitsch, industrial art. Video games fall into the same category.
>>64584981
I'll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANA8SI_KvqI
lmao dean with a bucket hat
art doesn't exist.........idiots
>>64585700
>infowars
are you memeing me?
>videogames aren't art
refreshing reminder of how pretentious this board is.
Videogames are outlined, storyboarded, conceptualized, and styalized very similarly to movies. The plot is written by a writer, characters and backdrops are hand drawn and then recreated digitally, music scores by a composer, and all directed by art directors and such.
Play The BioShock series, ICO, Limbo, Machinarium, the Halo series, Kingdom Hearts, Portal or any critically acclaimed game indie or otherwise and you'd be an idiot to disregard the creative work that those teams have put into it
>>64585369
>games aren't art because I say so
>>64585700
clickbait-y trash motivated by ignorance, resentment and memes
the fact that there's lots of bad modern art doesn't mean the whole category is bad
stop watching youtubers talking about something they know nothing and read a book, you fucking retard
high art is rich and white
art is urban and black
#truthbomb #openyoureyes #wow
>>64585635
Site designing can be art
I love how we live in era of cultural relativism where literally everything is considered art yet games somehow aren't
>>64585635
it is DESU
google is the top tier of design
in b4 dribbblefags try to disagree
>>64585439
Nah I wouldn't consider chess by itself art. I definitely don't think video games are by default art, but I think if someone puts the same amount of effort that a musician would put into their album or an artist would put into their painting, it could be, and disregarding it just because it's a video game is stupid
>>64585678
>this was made to entertain me therefore it's not art
Well then what the fuck is film, literature, or music you poon
>>64585751
they're "art" as much as the illustrations on a mountain dew bottle are art: kitsch or industrial art
they're not an artform or fine arts. maybe one day, but not now
>>64584981
It is THE art, it precedes all other art, music means art of the muses
video games aren't art but quickscoping is an artform
James Ferraro is the only musician making art. >>64584981
>>64585578
Damage control
Get told fatty
>>64585795
the signifier "artistic" has nothing to do with how much effort is put into creating something. I could spend two thousand years designing the perfect hammer, it would still be a tool
there's artistic work involved in creating a game. some games are amazing examples of creativity, but games still aren't an artform because the medium doesn't bring a new avenue to expression. it's just a game, no matter how excellently designed it was
>>64585820
There are videogames that are considered fine art, some of which were in my list. ICO, machinarium, limbo, shadow of the collosus. Those games are as compelling and emotive as any other art from another medium.
Read into them before you reply.
Human interaction with an artwork does not diminish it's artistic merit.
>>64585872
true btw
>>64585578
/v/ ON SUICIDE WATCH
kek why does /mu/ think it knows what art is?
holy shit its been summer since 08 i swear to god
>>64585893
Isn't the fact that you can interact with the game a new (albeit underexplored) avenue of expression different from most mediums?
I'd rather play dumb shit like Serious Sam or Mortal Kombat than indie trite pretending to be art
>mfw my programmer buddies hit me up to think of cool vidwogame ideas because they need more creative direction in their gamedev team
>mfw I read this thread
>mfw I have no face
>>64585903
I've literally played 3 out of 4 games you just referenced. The definition of art has nothing to do with how compelling or emotive something is. "Gameplay" isn't an artform, that's why chess, checkers, soccer and video games aren't an artform. Several different arts or trades are involved in creating a game, yes, but the game itself still isn't an work of fine art. I don't know why get so butthurt over it, "fine art" doesn't pressupose quality. Games are good at what they are.
>Human interaction with an artwork does not diminish it's artistic merit.
I never implied that.
>>64585635
From a coding and historical stand, yes. It is a well coded, functional search engine that shaped how a lot of people browsed the internet and made it notably easier. It is a important part of most browsers, being the default and preferred search engine. It is the quintessence of modern day web.
>>64586030
I wasn't talking about playing games, I was referring to developing games, I think that was a miscommunication
Developing a videogame is an art form, gameplay is not, in the same way that writing music is an art form, but listening to it is not.
>>64585943
No. There's deep interaction with a basket ball within a court, several rules and creativity are applied to the game, yet nobody ever claimed that basketball is a new artform. Just because you sticked a narrative to your game or made it evocative of emotions doesn't mean it's artistic.
>>64585578
>how much time you spend making something decides whether something is art or not
you must have confused art for craft
>>64585188
>that part where Sal acts the commercial out to his wife and she realizes her husband is a massive homo
>>64586090
>Developing a videogame is an art form
No, it's a creative trade.
>>64585483
M8, football is a type of improv dance with rules
Pathologic was released, and it's a video game, and it's not a game you play "for fun" so yes, Video games are art.
>>64586099
You're right. But wouldn't video games qualify as form of art under this definition?
>The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
>>64586180
Not him, but yes. There's bunches of games like that out there, but currently they're put under the term "art games" because the medium's audience isn't mature enough yet. If it was, we'd have more stuff like >>64586156 that understands you don't always need a gun.
>>64585671
what do you mean 'as much of an artist' implying you can be 'more artist' or 'less artist'
someone who has studied art has a definitely better workshop than someone who hasn't but they are both just artists regardless, neither of them is 'more of an artist'
>videogames are art
There are people who seriously believe this sentiment.
![275px-Last_of_Us_cover[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/r2Fyj0H.jpg "275px-Last_of_Us_cover[1].jpg")
Pic related is more artistic than any music released in 2013. Prove me wrong.
>>64585369
retard
>>64586137
>creative trade
You're just sidestepping the word "art" by using synonyms.
creative implies artistic.
trade implies you get paid for it.
What do you think the people who draw and conceptualize characters, settings, and objects in games are? What about the guy that composes the score? Or the people that layout the storyboard and character arcs? What about the sound user interface team that designs everything you see and how you see it?
What do you think they apply and utilize? Color theory, various literary devices, syncing sound fx, music, and visuals during certain key plot points, lighting, character design, dialogue, etc.
at what point is it NOT art?
could you physically walk into a gamedev studio, watch these people at work and say "nope, none of this is art"?
>>64586357
embarrassed for you.
>>64586357
before ask to prove you are wrong to people you must prove to us and to yourself that you are right.
>>64586357
>more artistic
What's your definition of "artistic", anon?
>>64584981
its "a art" you retard. i know it doesnt seem right but the english language is weird like that. google it.
fucking idiots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=who4_BF3Cck
explain how this isn't art
>>64586494
no it isn't you buffoon
>>64586522
its a video game thats whats wrong with it you fucking mong are you upset you fucking gamer piece of shit go gamergate about it you fucking baby
>>64586522
>le Ueda artistic game meme
you before explain how that is art
>>64586549
compelling
>>64586549
ok but do u hav 2 b mean
>>64585439
Chess falls into the art of war. Get learnt
The people who think video games can't be art are the ones who think the sole thing a video game can be is fun.
This close-mindedness is why we don't have more games trying more things.
>>64586558
only if you can form that sentence properly diego
>>64586549
Upset much?
>>64585455
>preparing food is art
lmfao
>>64586558
Not the same dude, but it is, under this definition:
>The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
They are applying their creativity, in a visual form. They may not be primarily appreciated for their beauty, but they certainly are. I guess that's a weakness in my point.
>>64586589
yeah and Monopoli falls into Wall Street
>>64585893
there's artistic work involved in creating a painting. some paintings are amazing examples of creativity, but paintings still aren't an artform because the medium doesn't bring a new avenue to expression. it's just a painting, no matter how excellently painted it was
>>64586589
lmaoooooo
>>64586639
just because you can't heat up a hot pocket in the microwave without having pepperoni and cheese blowout on one end doesn't demerit the culinary arts.
>>64584981
Yes. Anybody who says otherwise is baiting.
music is music sculpture is sculpture art is painting
>>64586589
damn...
war is art
>they try to prosecute me for bombing their towns and burning their fields
>it was art bro
>walk free
>>64586679
>painting isn't an avenue of expression
how's that autism treating you familia??
>>64586755
It is art, that's why they wear berets and paint their faces.
Because they're artists.
>>64586771
>new
>>64585180
He got a good tan
>>64586030
Anything can be art. The definition of art is non existent. Soccer is art, watching the fox's season long was a modern piece of live art. The way messi dances with the ball and his bursts of speed can be art as well, because of how crafted and precise his movements are. Chess is the art of war my friend. Storytelling can be an artform as well. If it evokes emotion, if it goes down paths never traveled, it doesn't matter. It's art. No one can say what is art and what isn't, because if you believe something to be art, it is. If I believe CoD to be the pinnacle of FPS's, then to me it is high art. The top of it's class.
>>64586367
the team behind creating a mcdonalds tv commercial have a similar process. graphic designers and artists to design the logos, graphics etc., directors, actors producers etc. to film it, a composer and musicians to create the music. is the end result art?
>>64587094
If someone thinks it is, then it is art.
>>64586972
As someone who goes to a top art school in my country and knows and has lectures from prominent leading artists half of the people in this thread don't have any idea what they are talking about. Art isn't defined by something being well crafted and precise nor is it defined by the emotion it provokes, thats pretty much the most basic thing you're taught in art school. art is defined by the purity of expression, its why someone screaming and rolling around a room is art whereas a beautifully designed and crafted chair is a craft. its why john cages 4'33 is art and a yengwie malmsteen song isn't.
>>64585700
As I read the title I knew that it would be this faggot talking
>>64587204
It is a product
All music is art, but 99.9999999% of music is not art music (as in, having merit and will be remembered within the next half century).
>>64587346
the mainstream is a product. what about the thousands of artists putting their music out for free?
In this hyper-capitalist consumer society, "art" doesn't exist anymore
Everything is a product. Wake the fuck up you fucking sheep.
>>64587300
exactly bro. that is why when I consider Halo (the video game), you have all these supposedly "artistic" elements, but the "core" of it is "shoot em' up alien hoard" which begins to feel really childish, boring and contrived. good games are essentially math or skill. games and art are not synonymous, they are different concepts. I mean, computers play chess for christ's sake
It's funny how the people who argue videogames are art have about as much knowledge of art theory as your average idiotic STEM major.
>>64587677
there is so little to actually know regarding "theory" and art.....like, have you heard of Basquiet?
>>64587094
>straw man fallacy
commercials are different.
they use polls and statistics to shill their product towards a target audience. a jingle writer composes the music, but to preset specifications. same with the logo and other visual pieces, all depending on what demographic they are selling to.
There is art involved, but its restricted to such a small degree. They aren't expressing anything, theyre just manufacturing what they think you want to hear and see. Its just pandering
>>64587677
average idiot STEM major are the main demographics of vidya
>>64587895
That's only because a devteam needs more programmers than creators
>>64587954
I meant gamers not developers
>>64588000
YEAH? WELL ok
Did gamergate make everyone hate gamers? Or were they already despised?
>>64587885
regardless, the CORE of a game is a GAME. it requires skill, math, strategy. a GAME is not ART. TARGET PRACTICE is not ART. RESOURCE MANAGEMENT is not ART. (INSERT X FACTOR OF X VIDEO GAME HERE REQUIRED TO "WIN" GAME) IS NOT ART
art is for faggots, the only things that matter: pussy, respect and money
only neckbearded autistic manchildren will disagree
>>64588113
>pussy
>not an art
>>64588113
you sound like a member of a mexican drug cartel...
faggot
PUSS RESPEKT POWA MA NIGGA
PUSS RESPEKT POWA YEA, IMMA BIG MAN, I LIKE MAN THINGZ, PUSS RESPEKT POWA, YEA NIG
>>64588242
numale manlet detected
>>64585751
Agreed but Bioshock and Halo kinda suck
Especially Infinite
>>64588266
bro, I even got it wrong. POWER matters. money? nobody gives a fuck faggots have money.
puss is a game, not all pussy is created equal.
respect, I respect artists the most. LOL, who else to respect? leaders, politicians, WHY SHOULD I RESpECT YOU? your INTELLIGENCE? your Power?
seriously, the level of thought on this board, or maybe humanity in general needs burned at the stake and thrown in a pit of alligator teeth
oh btw ur a fag. puss respekt powa ;)
>>64588139
honestly this discussion is worthless unless we could get into details. "vague" discussions always fall prey to definition.
I can only say that I am never tempted, and have not been tempted since the age of 14 to approach a video game, for reasons of artistic merit or not. I don't "seek art" in that world
>>64588363
yeah well detail isn't going to happen because I'm on a cell phone.
Also I don't really care whether or not you agree with me all that much.
I just don't like it when people see work that a group of artists and programmers created and claim it's not art. doesnt make sense. there are plenty of games with plot arcs, character development, score composition, and visual artwork that are considered cinematic, but no one will argue the artistic merit of cinema.
It's like people who say that comics aren't real art, even when the two components of a comic are writing and drawing
>>64588522
hm, that's true. I should mention that I wasn't the same guy who you were previously in a discussion with.
maybe the problem is, we are arguing ceaselessly over some binary "art/not art" debate, when it might be more accurate to simply evaluate things using various premises.
like, TRANSFORMERS, the movies, I'm sure could be claimed, according to the "criteria" you suggest be "art", but it is ABSOLUTE SHIT. who the fuck watches those movies? DUMB AS FUCK. DUMB ART.
but, you see my point. its hard to argue against a "creative activity" deserving the label, but is it GOOD? maybe that's a better approach.
>>64588773
yeah, it's definitely a false dichotomy. flawed thinking. the concept of art is too complex for a binary system of thought.
we should be asking how much creative expression goes into a work, and not whether it can be labelled as a whole a creative work or not
>>64586126
classic. his wife was pretty cute too. why didn't sal fuck that dude in the first season who knew he was gay
>>64585369
>>Not Art
>Video Games
So Nobuo Uematsu is shit ?
>>64585635
>spend years painstakingly putting together a 24x24 foot puzzle
THIS IS ART
>>64589068
Well of course Nobuo is shit you fucking idiot.
>>64589112
who /roguelike/ here?
>>64589121
He makes pop music.
Post your top 5 artists.
>>64585458
>implying there's not a certain amount of craftsmanship in creating a for profit creation
>>64589162
Nobuo Uematsu
Joe Satriani
Alkpote
The Flashbulb
Boards of Canada
DEAN BLUNT IS NOT ART
>>64589184
Fucking awful taste, are you from /v/?
>>64589162
Handy and the Jerk-offs
Mother's Big Breasts
Slick Clit
Jet Thruster
the Wet Moans
>>64585180
He's from Sweden, anon, don't act surprised.
>>64589216
no
bet you listen to prog rock
>>64584981
No. But all art is garbage anyway.
>>64585369
>Film
>art
>people actually believe this
kek
>>64587094
Yeah.
>>64589239
>bet you listen to prog rock
Actress
Andy Stott
Scott Walker
Glenn Branca
Cpt Beefheart
>>64585600
you mean art and the Sublime
>>64585413
Theire primary goal is always entertainment and this is always placed above any secondary motives of artistic expression. Mediums like literature and music allow for works to be made primarily for art, but this is impossible in a video game. Dear Esther attempted it and look how well that worked out.
>>64586357
This is a perfect example : it has a powerful story (according to what I've heard), but it still takes place within a game setting where the player's entertainment is their primary motive for concluding the story.
>>64587346
Everything has always been a product, anon.
Sculptors have almost always been paid to do their work throughout history.
>>64587677
>>64587723
>learning art theory before learning your fundamentals
>>64589426
>dodging the point
>>64589451
>teenage memes
I think music isn't. its more like an expression, or communication even? i dunno, dont judge me you cunts
>>64589583
o i m judgin u
and the verdict is ur dumb
>>64589477
What dean does isn't art
What james ferraro does it art.
see the difference?
>>64589753
>>64589927
>he didn't get FSV
