WHAT THE FUCK
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
I need help with time signatures because I'm seriously confused.
Let's suppose we have a 12/8 time signature, which means 12 beats of 1/8.
How the fuck could you put 12 1/8 notes into a 12 beats bar if a beat is 1/8 of a bar which is more than 1/12 of a bar?
top number = number of beats per measure
bottom number = which type of note gets one beat
an eighth note is only 1/8th of a bar in 4/4
in 4/8, an eighth note would be a quarter of a bar
in 1/8, an eighth note would be the whole bar
get it
lol the exact reason over here in england we didnt change the note names to fractions
we call them quavers over here which gets rid of that whole problem
its just that working out note nmes in fractions seems to make it easier to understand beginners learning theory whilst working in 4/4
>>64528931
What the fuck are you on about.
There are 12 8th notes in a bar of 12/8. One eighth note is 1/12 of the bar. Not 1/8th of the bar because there are twelve beats (8th note gets ONE beat). And then you group those notes into 3s giving you 4 large beats of 3 8th notes. Hence why a 4/4 triplet bar sounds like 12/8 bar, they have the same number of notes grouped the same and beamed the same and felt the same.
>>64528995
>>64529001
ok, I supposed that could be the reason but all popular sources don't seem to mention it explicitly, thank you very much
>>64529044
no problem, confused me when i first started with theory too aha
Buy the AB guide to music theory I & II, they perfectly describe and provide examples of things like time sigs. They're like £5 and pretty much cover everything up to university level music theory.
But in answer to your question, the bottom number does not define exactly how the bar is split up. 1/8 does not mean 1/8th of a bar. It just means 1 Quaver. You can perfectly have 12 Quavers in a bar.
the bottom number is more there to link the time signature to the note values used. They're only really important for slightly more intermediate time sig things like compound time & triple time theory.
>>64529039
not exactly, the note values would obviously have to be halved in order to transpose something from 4/4 triple to 12/8
>>64528931
the top are triplets. it means you squeeze three eighth notes in the place of one quarter. a lot of people say trip-a-let to understand it
the bottom is essentially saying you have 12 eighth notes in one full bar
>>64529001
>HEMIDEMISEMIDEMIHEMIQUAVER
fucking autistic shit. just use fractions
>>64529970
depends on the BPM really.
>>64530083
well yeah, either half the note values or half the bpm
>>64530017
>just use fractions
but they are confusing, 1/8 is not really 1/8 if it is 1/12, it's just the symbol
>>64528931
12/8 means you get 12 beats per measure and 1/8th notes get the beat.
>>64530299
fine, but 1/8th is just referred to the symbol and not to the actual lenght, am i wrong?
If duration and rhythm didn't make sense to you from the get go ur fucked pal
They are called "eighth notes" but they only take up one eighth of a bar when in 4/4, in other time signatures it's different
That's why us britbongs don't call them that - it's unnecessarily confusing
what's the difference between 12/4 and 12/8?
i get that 12/4 would be 12 quarter notes per measure, 12/8 would be 8 eight notes per measure, but couldn't you just double the BPM for a 12/4 and get the same thing as a 12/8? or am i just retarded?
>>64530366
you're correct (and the symbol only really means length through the bpm ad in relation to other note values)
>>64530467
different beat stresses
12/8
STRONG weak weak Medium weak weak STRONG weak weak Medium weak weak
12/4
STRONG weak Medium weak STRONG weak Medium weak STRONG weak Medium weak
tap it out on a surface, harder for stronger beats
you'll see the difference
>>64530535
how does the bottom number define which beat gets the stress?
like how would 12/16 stresses work?
this type of stuff is what always confused me in school with time signatures
>>64529970
No you misunderstood.
4 beats of triplets in 4/4 is the same as a 12/8 bar with all 12 8th notes present. Did yo look at the op pic? It's literally right there.
jesus christ
>>64530639
it's simply a convention
with the bottom number as 4 you place the emphasis every other beat, with the bottom number as 8 you place emphasis every third beat
6/8
STRONG weak weak Medium weak weak
6/4
STRONG weak Medium weak Medium weak
etc
the rules get more complicated when the top number is not even (e.g. 3/4, 5/4), but I won't go into that unless you want me to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K6_kPKtix4
I watched this the other day. Anyone care to elaborate on the whole vocabulary part building part?
>>64530366
Yes, but the symbol represents a length relative to the song's bpm.
You're overthinking this.
>>64530734
but the regular time equivalent of 12/8 is 6/4, so in reality the 4/4 triple time is 150% faster than the 12/8, assuming the bpm given was double for the 12/8 as the 4/4 to allow for the halved bottom number value
so for it to be exactly the same, the 4/4 would need to have a bpm 150% faster (the three quavers are in the time of two under 4/4 triple)
>>64528995
>bottom number = which type of note gets one beat
i never understood this because you could have a time signature of 4/4 and one of the beats could be 8 32nd notes. although those equal a quarter notes a quarter not did not receive the beat
>>64531191
What are you talking about? 4/4 just means any length equal to a 1/4 breast gets the beat. Subdivisions don't factor into time signature.
>>64531191
Those 8 32nd notes are still underneath an overall quarter note pulse.
Otherwise, they would be in 8/32 or similar.
>>64531191
the quarter note would receive the same accentuation as the others though, if something is written in 4/4 then you'd expect the notes (or rests) that fell on the quarter note beats to be the strongest notes or rests of the bar.
>>64531191
4/4 means that the notes should line up to a quarter pulse, so all beats should add up to a quarter length each. Subdivisions don't matter when determining time signature.
>>64531278
do you mean like the first eight notes where a quarter would be if it wasn't in 32nds?
>>64531191
I think you misunderstood
it doesn't mean every beat is going to be a quarter note, it means a quarter note represents one beat
in 4/4 1 quarter note = 1 beat
one 32nd note = 1/8th of a beat
so 8 32nd notes = 1 beat as well
you could think of it like algebra
I've been looking at a composition that is off the chart, 4/4 6/4 7/4 5/4 2/4 That anyone could write it let alone perform it is in its self difficult to grasp
it is do-able.
what I've found is that by looking at the overall performance , then looking at the breakdown of each bar it seems more that it's loosely descriptive.
One of the things I've been taught is that the chord symbols are approximations, and also study a piece but don't take it to heart.
Better still is , it can be done, and this is what it sounds like and looks like, but don't let it get in the way of your own piece.
>>64532961
the guys asleep, it's in the world of the fairies
I listen to it and "that's pre-talkies"
"yeah, it's what I grew up with"
and that's probably what it was composed for or where the training came from
>>64531392
this helped me a lot, thank you. i would think of it like algebra but i cant do algebra. but this helped a lot
>>64528931
huh?
12/8 means 12 eighth notes in a bar.
>>64528931
Wait do Americans call those Quavers 1/8 beats? That's confusing as fuck
HOLY FUCK EVERYONE ITT IS A FUCKING RETARD
Very rarely is 12/8 meant to represent 12 8th notes where each one gets a beat. In fact, that's so rare that if you write it like that it's fucking retarded.
Here;
If the number on top is:
2
4
6
8
Are all simple meters. i.e. the number on top represents how many notes of the bottom number get a beat each.
If the number on top is:
3 (with exceptions such as 3/4)
6
9
12
Are all COMPOUND meter. i.e. It's a beat that has 3 8th notes in it.
So 12/8 is 4 BEATS where each beat is divided into 3 parts.
i.e. 12/8 = 4 compound beats, where each beat is equal to three 8th notes.
And, finally;
If the number on top is
5 (with some exceptions)
7 (same as above)
10
11
13
etc
Then it's ASYMMETRICAL meter. So it's a combination of different beat groupings and their divisions. It mirrors how the music actually feels.
I have no idea what the fuck some of you have been taught but holy shit get this fucking straight it's simple as hell.
>>64534830
To expand upon this and also to clarify:
Simple beat = 2 subdivisions
Compound beat = 3 subdivisions
Compound beat =/= triplet. Get this fucking straight. A triplet is a type of tuplet. A tuplet is a metric tool used to fit subdivisions that are not part of the time signature into a piece. i.e. a triplet inserted into a compound time piece, or a simple 2 8th notes into a compound time signature.
The number underneath compound time signatures (3/8, 6/16, 9/32, 12/8, etc) is meant to represent what the subdivision of the compound beat is. If it's 16, then that means that each beat is equal to 3 16th notes, i.e. a dotted 8th note.
Yes it's a little confusing but that's how it's read. Some people have been trying to implement things such as actually putting the note symbol as the beat unit (bottom number) instead of a number. So instead of 4/4, it would be written as 4/ . In my opinion, this has some merit, but it needs far more widespread use before before it becomes something standard.
Think of it like this:
12/8 = 4/. (dotted 8th note)
9/16 = 3/. (dotted 16th note)
>>64534980
Fucking hell, the note symbols didn't appear. Just imagine there are notes there.
If you have more questions feel free to ask.
