Listening to jazz for the first time and I don't really get this genre at all
It's all very boring wank and no substance. I dont understand why people would like this at all? What is the appeal?
>>64341711
listen to Kind of Blue. it's a pretty good introduction
>>64341711
Listen to John coltrane, Miles Davis, Bill Evans and work your way from there
>>64341711
Voyager live by night
Is that the whitewashed shit the guy from TPAB put out as solo? Jesus famalam you should at least take the orthodox path to being an insufferable twat and start with Coltrane and Davis.
Or listen to Hancock's Thrust or Sextant and be ready to think you're watching porn.
>>64341833
'Butterfly' in Thrust is fucking awesome, my fav
>>64341711
Jazz is basically enormous pretend play.
>it's about the interplay
Bullshit, whatever one person plays is in no relation to the others.
>it's unique
Bullshit, minor variations from performance to performance don't mean that they're not rehashing the same formula all the time.
>it's complex
Bullshit, jazzists intentionally limit themselves to just a couple of performance gimmicks and are disinterested in all other aspects of composition.
tl;dr it's willful self-delusion. Don't bother.
That album is boring garbage. Start with post-bop . Thats easiest way imo.
Ryo Fukui's Scenery has been mentioned a lot on here and with good reasong. You should check it out
I love it when people who have strong opinions also come up with these pseudo facts to back themselves up, as displayed here:
>>64342750
>>64342821
I love it when elitist pretension.
>>64342750
This guy
Thinks that Justin Bieber usage of "Tropical House" is more abrasive than ANY jazz.
Your generalizations bore us.
I love this album
>>64342871
>generalizations
The only sign of losing the argument that's surer than 'don't generalize' is 'you're narrow-minded'.
>>64342750
Rock is basically repetitive, unoriginal play.
>It's about composition
Bullshit, rock "compositions" are never more than 4 chords and basic verse/chorus structure
>It's energetic
Bullshit, no energy can make listening to the same four chords repeated over and over exciting
>It's meaningful
Bullshit, rock lyrics are on the same level of nursery rhymes and are always simplistic, just like the music
tl;dr it's music for simple minded children. Don't bother.
>>64342928
Why are you so insecure? Is it because you can't play an instrument and have a superiority complex?
>>64343292
The person you replied to here.
>verse/chorus
I don't think I listened to a song with a chorus in a couple of years (with the exception of ELP's 'A Time and a Place', which I included as a prelude to 'Tarkus').
>rock lyrics are on the same level of nursery rhymes
'Nursery Cryme' is a lovely album.
>>64343292
I like how that post didn't mention rock at all but then you went on this rant anyway.
>>64343413
>I don't think I listened to a song with a chorus in a couple of years (with the exception of ELP's 'A Time and a Place', which I included as a prelude to 'Tarkus').
Nice cherrypicking
>'Nursery Cryme' is a lovely album.
No it's terrible
>>64343450
This is a continuation of a thread from last week son.
>>64342750
>>it's about the interplay
it can be
>>it's unique
it can be
>>it's complex
it can be
>>64343413
>I don't think I listened to a song with a chorus in a couple of years
Oh and cool anecdotal evidence too
>>64343450
I feel like the point of that post is more about how easy it is to apply such broad 'criticisms' to any genre.
>>64343505
NO.
ALL jazz is EXACTLY the same. And my three complaints about jazz hold true for the ENTIRE GENRE.
>>64343531
And don't forget... you're not allowed to use the word "generalizations" to argue against my statements
>>64342750
>Bullshit, whatever one person plays is in no relation to the others.
No man listen to bitches brew
>>it's unique
Bitches Brew though
>>it's complex
you should check out bitches brew
>>64343563
why
>>64343570
i fucked up this post but you know what I mean
>>64343398
>Why are you so insecure?
I am secure enough to state openly what millions of jazz fans are afraid of admitting.
Being stuck at the jazz phase is a sign that you're clinging to the only idea of complexity that by happened to in our culture have gone unchallenged, that of purported complexity of a handful of alterations of progressions, a piece filled with which otherwise shows no developments. Every time I listen to a jazz piece, I can't help but wonder at the lack of imagination that would enable the player to do anything but produce his uniform pasta of noises. To pause for a moment, to amass notes or speed them up, to try to think of two melodies at once. Before I semi-seriously looked into rock, I would have enjoyed jazz like you do.
>>64343587
I'm not sure. Ask this poster
>>64342928
>>64343570
My Bitches Brew nigga
That album is like, the best Jazz ever performed.
Just listen to these OP. These are the most accessible jazz albums. If you don't like these, you'll never like jazz.
>>64343606
how does using that as an argument mean you're losing
>>64343603
Lol your first sentence makes no sense.
Every time I listen to a rock piece, I can't help but wonder at the lack of imagination that would enable the band to do anything but produce his uniform strumming of the same 4 chords. To improvise, to try more than four chords, to try to express emotion without needing to rely on simplistic lyrics. Before I semi-seriously looked into jazz, I would have enjoyed rock like you do.
>>64343662
Those are not the most accesible jazz albums at all
Rockist-friendly =/= most accesible
>>64343603
listening to music for complexity is retarded
jazz is still good though
>>64343727
How are these not the most normie jazz albums ever? Even none jazz fans know these albums
>>64343570
>>64343635
>>64343662
>Bitches Brew
I listen to it and the low IQ is almost palpable. He just didn't have it in him to mold the noises into any coherent structure; he just pretended to have some vague sort of guidelines for his players, who in reality just silently agreed not to step out of their zones of comfortable playing too far, so as not to produce a trainwreck too obvious. There is no trying, just a couple of mediocre players each doing his own thing. The facade, once looked past, is truly cringeworthy -- to see that the true reason behind jazz's 'creative freedom' and 'unbound expression' is just inability to come up with any form for it.
>>64343603
>the lack of imagination that would enable the player to do anything but produce his uniform pasta of noises.
I don't think I've listened to a song with a uniform pasta of noises in a couple years (with the exception of John Coltrane's 'Giant Steps' which broke new ground with it's unusual chord progression)
>>64341711
>Jazz
>Boring
>No substance
lmao pleb
>>64343662
>most accesible
Not really, if they guy never listened to jazz, these aren't the most accesible albums out there. Sure, they are entry-level bla bla, but you can't recommend, for example, A Love Supreme, if the guy hasn't listened to ANY Coltrane, he won't get it. I'd reccomend:
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane - My Favorite Things
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
>>64343472
>Nursery Cryme
I listen to it and the low IQ is almost palpable. He just didn't have it in him to make noises that weren't just simple repetitive patterns; he just pretended to have some vague sort of lyrics for the music, who in reality just silently agreed not to step out of their zones of comfortable playing too far, so as not to produce a trainwreck too obvious. There is no trying, just a couple of mediocre songs each sounding exactly like the last. The facade, once looked past, is truly cringeworthy -- to see that the true reason behind rock's 'energetic repititions' and 'clever lyrics' is just inability to come up with anything interesting for it.
>>64343871
Both this kind of equalization of bad and good products and the resolution to spam an inconvenient thread are very common tactics, jazz fan.
>>64343908
>Both this kind of equalization of bad and good products and the resolution to spam an inconvenient thread are very common tactics, rock fan.
>>64343763
>just a couple of mediocre players each doing his own thing
In other words, for any single five-minute slice of a jazz 'masterpiece', you could just take track of one instrument, and mix it with any other five-minute slices of all other instruments, and it would have been hailed as a 'earth-shattering masterpiece' just the same. Any such permutation would have been just as 'perfect'. Because no sequence of jazz noices displays any sort of consideration for what the other players are doing. They're all perfectly independent. Jazz is the epitome of egoistic artistic isolationism.
>>64343908
>>64343927
So the rule is, if you make a criticism of something that isn't unique to what you're criticising or can easily be applied to something very obviously different from what you're criticising, then it's not valid.
I'm not really into the genre desu, but i think that's jazz/blues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1WQR8Ti1vk
>>64344016
To make clear what I mean:
A1 A2 A3 A4 A5
B1 B2 B3 B4 B5
C1 C2 C4 C4 C5
would be as adored as
A4 A3 A5 A1 A2
B2 B5 B4 B3 B1
C1 C5 C4 C2 C3
i.e. if the piece were utterly mangled.
Because jazz pieces come mangled out in the first place.
>>64344016
idk man that's like, actually not true
>>64342811
This
>>64344062
i think that's called playing in key
>>64344038
>'Cats are hairy animals.'
>'NOT TRUE NAKED MOLE RATS ALSO HAVE SOME HAIR COMMENT INVALID!!!1'
Are you aware that you are retarded?
>>64344090
A B and C stand for instruments/tracks, numbers stand for time.
>>64344109
did you reply to the wrong post
>>64344016
For any single slice of a chorus or a verse in a rock "masterpiece", you could literally just loop it over and over again and it would have been hailed as an 'earth-shattering masterpiece' just the same. Any such looping would have been just as 'perfect.' Because every sequence of chords in a rock song simply repeats over and over again until the song just ends. They're all perfectly repetitive. Rock is the epitome of unimaginative artistic repetition.
>>64344124
I mean it would make sense to switch around those parts and still have it sound 'right' because the players are playing in the same key
>>64344149
>jazz fans literally being reduced to spamming a flawed reasoning in response to cricitism
Even I wouldn't've guessed.
>>64344168
Would it? Well, who am I to deny. If the key is the only criterion of whether a jazz sequence sounds right, this only speaks about the jazz critics.
>>64344109
???
maybe you should try reading it again?
>>64344149
To make clear what I mean:
Rock chord progression- I V vi IV (repeat x100)
would be adored as
I V vi IV (repeat x400)
i.e. if the piece was simply longer
Because rock pieces come out too long as soon as they begin repeating the same progression over and over (all rock songs ever)
>>64342750
Lovely troll post, pretty successful too, I'd rate that a solid 7.5/10.
>>64344109
lol i guess it would make sense if that post said the opposite thing
>>64344186
See >>64344109 for the nature of your error of disregarding the DEGREE to which a phenomenon such as lack of imagination happens, jazz spammer.
>>64344171
>rock fans literally being reduced to spamming flawed reasoning to prove his baseless generalizations
I actually would have guessed
>>64344210
well what I said would apply to any music really
not sure how you got that key being 'the only criterion' for jazz from
>>64342750
>a fucking pleb is implying
>>64344240
have you tried reading it again
>>64344219
>getting trolled by truth
>>64341833
DLing thrust now based on your rec lol
DId you guys know that all rock music is literally the same 4 chords repeated over and over while somebody whines about some small event in their life?
>>64344299
I didn't know that, but I did know that rock music was what happened when they realized jazz didn't sell so they decided to dumb down the music so that teenagers could groove to it with their sweety at the formal.
>>64344240
It looks like you're intentionally misunderstanding that post so you can argue against it.
>>64344299
>>64344323
Wow I guess you learn something new every day. I used to think that different kinds of rock music had different characteristics and approaches but I'm glad I read your post and now I realize that the entire genre can be summed up in one sentence.
>>64344291
Man if this is not trolling you Are really quite deaf/ Have no musical Hearing at all. The fact that you cant understand the complexity of something doesnt Mean its not there. I Mean desu jazz is probably next to classical music in terms of complextity, and harmonically IT is usually More complex
Some amazing trolling is happening on this thread. Jazz hater poster...You are very good at the art of trolling.
>>64344323
>jazz
>possible to dumb down
>implying
Jazz is the musical equivalent of fast food.
'Look mom no part of the song repeats! So unique! So creative! So planned!'
Just the fact that your attention deficit doesn't let you appreciate real composition doesn't mean that your repetitive microchanges in a piece are intelligent.
>>64344245
>>64344213
>>64344149
>>64343871
>No response to my arguments except "hay no fair!!"
typical rock fan
>>64344325
>tfw trolls ignore is intentionally misinterpret every post that BTFO's them
thread should be dead soon
>>64344388
that's intentionally misunderstanding arguments too
>>64343603
What the fuck are you on about? Spotted the non-gigging normie. Your rhetoric doesn't hold water outside of your little world mate.
>>64344395
*or
not is.
>>64344387
>thinking no part of the song repeats in jazz
>implying
rock is the musical equivalent of eating shit every day
'Look mom I'm repeating it over and over so it must be good right!'
Just the fact that your attention deficit doesn't let you recognize more abstract patterns doesn't mean that your repetitive "progressions" have anything to do with "real composition"
>>64344417
You can only fight this kind of nonsense with even deeper nonsense
>>64344431
>normie
Show me a normie that doesn't pretend that jazz is the very soul and essence of musicality blah blah.
>>64344447
>abstract patterns
There is nothing 'abstract' about jazz. It's just grinding the same couple of tonal tricks, because the niggers are too stupid to master anything else and the whites feel too much guilt not to imitate them.
>>64344485
that's what you get for giving attention to a retarded genesis fan.
>>64344493
>There is nothing 'abstract' about jazz. It's just grinding the same couple of tonal tricks, because the niggers are too stupid to master anything else and the whites feel too much guilt not to imitate them.
So... so you don't know how rock got started? Maybe it's too mean for me to tell you...
>>64344062
You're so dumb it's so cringe.
If you don't think jazzers react to in the moment phrasing of any kind just tells me you have a terrible ear for music and can't see beyond a single instruments line within the group. Go and develop your ear and learn to play an instrument then go to a jazz jam and try to hang with those cats. You'll shit yourself from the nervousness as you realize all your bait bullshit from 4chan doesn't actually apply to real life and you'll be laughed off the stage.
>>64344485
it was cool at first but cause i thought i was arguing with someone, but it's more like arguing with a bot with really limited responses and putting in invalid inputs that it doesn't know how to reply to logically.
>>64344512
I mean, you're free to close the thread. I'm having a great time myself.
Since this is a Jazz thread might as well ask for some recs.
Been getting into Bill Evans and Stan Getz lately, where do I go from there?
>>64344493
What kind of people do you hang out with mate? I'm a jazz musician and my company is 99.9% of the time musicians. I don't encounter your shitty friends that can't play music.
>>64344523
Same. It was cool at first because I thought I was arguing with someone but now it's even cooler because when faced with your own brand of logic you just resort to these kinds of responses.
Pls keep it up
>i'm a pleb and i can't into patrician music, which insults my intelligence
>better make a thread insulting the music
like fucking clockwork
>>64344513
>yso you don't know how rock got started?
People have grown out of the stifling shoes of jazz and left it behind, looking towards classical, folk, Middle/Far Eastern traditions, etc., composing suites and so on.
>this thread
This is the future of /mu/ People that can't even into fucking jazz.
>>64344569
Except that's not true you dumb fucking twat. Ever been to New York? Ever been to Philly? Ever been to Minnesota? Ever been to Portland? Ever been to Scandinavia where jazz is HUGE?
>>64344520
>If you don't think jazzers react to in the moment phrasing of any kind
Sure they do. If one of their plays a bit louder, they quieten down. Even a jazz 'musician' can sense this.
>>64344569
>looking towards classical, folk, Middle/Far Eastern traditions, etc., composing suites and so on.
People were doing all those things long before jazz even existed. Jazz did all those things long before rock existed...
>>64344554
calling something nonsense cause you don't understand it isn't really an argument.
well, that's what your whole point consists of but still
>>64344598
Low quality bait. Kill yourself.
>>64344605
oh the ironing
I think jazz........is dumb
>>64344605
>calling something nonsense cause you don't understand it isn't really an argument.
So now you're just admitting that all your posts about jazz aren't really arguments?
>>64344617
Enjoy your mass-produced, cookie-cutter jazz meisterwerks then, deluding yourself that the genre you've invested a slice of your life into exhibits 'the musicians' preternatural insights into each other's innermost creative souls', rather than being just an opportunistic con in which a couple of players tacitly agree to pretend that incoherent, planless playing is an artistic choice, so to pull money out of you.
>>64344617
Low quality is enough when you are still drawing 5 fags at once.
"Low Quality Bait" as a criticism has lost its meaning. I think it is actually a compliment. Someone who can draw retards in with the lowest quality bait is more succesful at baiting.
>>64344703
>Enjoy your mass-produced, cookie-cutter rock meisterwerks then, deluding yourself that the genre you've invested a slice of your life into exhibits profound and unique 'compositions', rather than being just a boring repetition in which a band tacitly agrees to pretend that strumming repetitive progressions is a masterpiece composition, so to pull money out of you.
>>64344703
Enjoy not living the life of a gigging musician that plays all genres of styles all because of my base in jazz. :^)
fuck this thread, fuck this board, fuck music, fuck you kids
>>64344783
>>64344788
Again, the more rock I listen to -- and for the record, names I just yanked out of thetoptens.com such as 'Metallica' or 'AC/DC' or 'Guns 'n' Roses' or 'Black Sabbath' or 'Iron Maiden' or 'The Doors' tell me nothing -- the more I pity the kids told by their parents to listen to jazz. No reaching out, no progress, no genre fusion, just sad navel-gazing, increasing arrogance and increasing musical isolation.
>>64344109
Actually it's more like
>'Every single cat is extremely hairy so dogs are much better'
>'Dogs also have hair'
>OMG IT'S LIKE I'M ARGUING WITH A BOT WHO CAN ONLY REPEAT MY ARGUMENTS I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE OR DISPROVE ANYTHING!!!!
This thread is so cancerous
>>64344892
Again, the more jazz I listen to -- and for the record, names I just yanked out of thetoptens.com such as Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter, Charlie Parker, Elvin Jones, tell me nothing -- the more I pity the kids told by their parents to listen to rock. No experimentation, no diversity of sounds, no genre fusion, just sad repetitiveness, increasing ignorance and increasing simple-mindedness.
>>64344640
The flaws in your thinking have been explained over and over already.
Why post something that's already been repeated?
You like rock music but hate jazz.
You say jazz is unimaginative and homogeneous, so people said the same about rock to reappropriate your flawed argument to show how flawed it is. You just called it pasta as if that actually refutes their point. You said jazz is all egotism and interplay doesn't happen there and when someone posted bitches brew as a counterexample you said it had 'low iq' even though that has nothing to do with music,you just wanted to call people who listen to jazz dumb.
idk man, it seems pointless to argue with someone who ignores the actual arguments.
>>64344965
>>64345010
After this thread dies, the memory of the jazz listeners (or maybe even players) who were compelled to perpetuate the equalizing fallacy of purported inability to prove that one genre's cultural horizons are broader than another so to salvage their pet genre will still make my day.
Though then, they can't even tell different posters apart, so one shouldn't expect much from them in the first place.
>>64345053
>prove that one genre's cultural horizons are broader than another
like there, no one even said that
>>64345053
>will still make my day.
This thread has been fun and everything and I've enjoyed trying to troll each other and stuff but you might have a serious issue if this thread will "make your day".
I don't have psychiatric training or anything but you may want to consider taking a break from 4chan.
Is that you Albini?
>>64345053
so that means this is only place people give you attention? ahahhah.
Is the ghost of Adorno haunting this thread
>>64345010
>you said it had 'low iq' even though that has nothing to do with music
No, the glaring lack of interplay of 'Bitches Brew' and other jazz masterpieces results from the players' low IQs. Well, laziness and lack of artistic aspirations too. They lacked the musical experience to sit and discuss their piece and what they wanted to achieve with it, so they just agreed to play whatever (having had, of course, to agree to play repetitively and flatly enough, so that there was, as I said, no chance of the piece sounding dissonant -- blandness is a prerequisite for jazz, because a bland piece can't go wrong -- if jazz players ever took chances, tried to display initiative and actually introduce a meaningful development in tension or mood, it would fall flat and everyone would see how creatively limited a concept even semi-improvisation really is) and probably called it a 'celebration of freedom that acknowledges each player's creative individuality but is not afraid to challenge it' or some other pretentious crap.
>>64345247
GTG. Maybe the thread will still be up.
>>64345221
>Is the ghost of Adorno haunting this thread
At least Adorno can write a decent sentence. This person sounds like a highschooler with a decent vocabulary who is trying to make himself sound smarter by writing long sentences and using passive voice.
>>64341711
>that album
>that vague, low effort criticism
bait
>>64345247
You still don't know what you're talking about. And you're looking more and more retarded by the minute.
>>64345268
I hope the rest of your day isn't so horrible that this thread is actually the highlight of it. Especially if you are serious.
Try learning an instrument. Maybe it will give you the sense of purpose and accomplishment that you seem to be missing and trying to fill with trolling on 4chan.
>>64345247
"I can't play an instrument" the post
>>64345294
>>64345316
>>64345471
Confusing jazz for music is like confusing arithmetics for mathematics.
>>64346034
(By the way, I don't see that much of a point in learning an instrument. Owing to the fact that I had realized that jazz is about as challenging as rap and pop, I have rather been attracted to writing music. Writing music is not limited to a specific instrument -- I have been attracted to simple MIDI software or even the ABC notation. But if jazz fags want to fiddle with their toys instead, be my guests. Just not in the room I'm presently in please.)
>>64346171
It's okay mate. Your music sucks and we all know it. Why? Read your own post, it's very telling of an insecure "composer" who can't even master a single instrument. And you want us to believe you'd have an understanding of them all.
Are you still in high school? Is that what it is?
>>64346171
post some of your "compositions"
>>64346368
If I had ever composed anything, it would have definitely sucked. Want to know how I know? Because I've heard something more than jazz to compare my ideas with.
>>64346171
And btw I took 6 semesters of theory, 2 semesters of 21st century theory, 2 semesters of orchestration, another 2 semesters of orch/band lit and I still whole heartedly prefer "fiddling" with my instrument with other talented musicians who also go to school with me rather than sitting down trying to compose a piece alone in a room somewhere. Music is communal and I very much enjoy and free off of that aspect.
>>64346456
>And btw I took 6 semesters of theory, 2 semesters of 21st century theory, 2 semesters of orchestration, another 2 semesters of orch/band lit and I still whole heartedly prefer "fiddling" with my instrument with other talented musicians who also go to school with me rather than sitting down trying to compose a piece alone in a room somewhere.
Because you're lazy.
>>64346171
This is elite bait, bravo.
>>64346478
7 hours in a practice room and 3 gigs a week minimum isn't lazy you stupid fuck.
>HURR I COMPOZE AT MY COMPUTER BY CLICKING NOTES. I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW THEORY BUT IF I TRY HARD ENOUGH I CAN MAKE SOME KIND OF BEAT HAHA NOT LAZY AT ALL cx
Talk to me when you've got 2 decades of music experience under your belt kid
>>64346478
Way to ignore the last sentence retard.
>Prog nerd sees all their favorite bands mentioning jazz as an influence
>Can't get into the genre because no verse-chorus-verse, repeated phrases or cheap gimmicks like "Middle-Eastern influences" (actually just 10 seconds of oud in a song)
>Starts a feud against it
O I am laffin.
>>64346529
>7 hours in a practice room and 3 gigs a week minimum isn't lazy you stupid fuck.
It is if what you spend your time practicing and gigging is lazy in comparison to true practice and performance. Practicing jazz to practicing music is like practicing e-sports to practicing sports. You're not learning anything new, you're just, again, rehashing a couple of tricks you've mastered, without absorbing external ideas. You're regressive.
>I CAN MAKE SOME KIND OF BEAT
A piece having a prominent beat is the first thing to drive me off, even before having vocals. I actually Googled things such as >beat-less music.
>>64346609
(Or >rhythm-less music.)
Kasami is fusion. If you want this, get on this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcJHUTRGsg
>>64346609
See this is how I know you're so bad. You can't even comprehend what actual practice looks like because you've never done it. You literally have 0 clue what you're talking about. Not to mention that time is split between jazz, orchestra responsibilities, percussion ensemble responsibilities, solo rep responsibilities, studying scores and tunes, transcribing heads and solos, then performing with 4 bands around town at night. You seriously just stay in your room and let the big boy musicians handle the work.
>>64346713
If I were like you, I would ask you to post some of your performances then, but I'm not like you. Not in the sense that I don't find personal experience relevant to the discussion, of course. It's not that; I've just heard enough jazz crap.
>>64346609
Oh yeah and I play with the UT New Music ensemble which performs pieces only composed in the last twenty years. If you're worth anything we would have played your piece. So who are you and what works have you published?
>>64346798
People already told you to post your shit comps. We know you won't because you know they're shit.
>>64346798
You're not fooling anyone retard
>>64346896
>>64346934
If your grasp on music is as strong as your grasp on this discussion, from which you baselessly surmised that I have composed anything, then you are qualified to be a jazz 'musician'.
Experience shows that it is often enough for one person to indeed cry the emperor is naked to effect some change. I'm fairly sure this thread might have made some difference when it comes to exposing the scam that is jazz, the scam that is robbing composers from its credit just because of the brashness of jazz musicians claiming themselves superior.
>>64347037
>robbing composers from its credit
*robbing composers from their credit for their hard work
>this thread
Will jazz ever recover?
>>64347037
literally no one cares. if you don't make music, shut the fuck up about music. you have no authority to claim anything is better or worse than anything else, especially if you can't even play an instrument or have a rudimentary grasp of theory or anything like that. you're retarded dude and your irrational love for composers and irrational hate for improvising musicians is the only thing that is baseless in this entire thread. go play in traffic somewhere
>>64343534
I know you're baiting
But listen to Jim Hall and Bill Evans' My Funny Valentine
There's tons of interplay and you can listen to the alt takes and see that they're not repeating themselves
Also don't start with Kamasi
You won't even get it if you don't have a cursory knowledge of jazz
>>64347037
>>64347065
In my hardlyending folly, I (having already done it over and over) Googled >best modern jazz youtube. Found this this time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiCzfGAjkig
At the risk of repeating myself... I feel almost physically the performative shambles in which the musicians are. I literally almost pity them. One person to solo puerile, disjointed, isolated sequences of notes, and the rest reduced to the role of unchanging wallflowers such as maybe even the bassists of the bands in >>64344892 might have avoided. I don't quite know what can lead a performer to debase themselves so.
>>64347269
>they're not repeating themselves
THE VERY POINT OF THE JAZZ SCAM is that they are strictly speaking 'not repeating themselves' so that you useful idiots can pretend to deflect criticism this way, while they are repeating themselves in literally every aspect that matters, of emotion, of being reminiscent of various musical forms...
If at least you didn't know that... But you do, your ignorance is willful.
>>64347269
Also, >>64344016 >>64344062 applies. The 'interplay' is imaginary. I could chop it, reorder it, and none of you would even notice a difference.
>>64347308
Yeah dude, fuck chromaticism and exploratory song structures! Putting a "progressive" 10-minute keyboard solo shamelessly imitating Classical composers in the middle of what's basically a pop song? Now that's what I call art!
