What is he basing the notes he plays on? It just sounds like random notes, from a theoretical standpoint. I mean it obviously sounds good, but when I take a look at the notes he plays in a given solo, they are frequently completely out of key. What am I missing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UajVYaWDEeY the saxophone starting at 4:35 is a good example of what I'm talking about
>>63909042
It is intentionally played out of key because jazz like this doesn't really follow the convention of standard note playing
>>63909112
so you're saying he's just playing random notes?
He plays what sounds good regardless of whether it follows the key or not
>>63909042
He didn't obsess over music theory like so many on /mu/ and that gave him a freedom to defy convention.
>>63909153
not random because the notes are generally close r together than random pitches.
Damn. Does anyone have an informed response? Genuinely interested in hearing it
>>63909087
My musical ear isn't great, but that sounds like the whole tone scale to me.
>>63909369
he knew it though because otherwise how would he know how not to follow it
>>63909456
yeah that's interesting. I know Allan Holdsworth uses that scale. It seems kind of odd to adhere to a scale of its notes don't even follow the key you're supposed to be playing in. Like why bother. I guess it imposes a new keys/patterns on top of it.
When you know enough about music you know how to break the rules and have it sound good.
Like flat 5th and 3rd and a major 7th sound good over a 12 bar blues but way more complex.
Sometimes it's dissonant but he knows how to pull it back in and resolve it
>>63909042
A mixture of chromaticism, which isnt that rare, and uncommon scales.
More traditional/structured Jazz often utilizes secondary dominants, which is why out of key notes are often played. So for example if the key was A minor, the typical thing that would happen would be a ii7-V7/VI and if the composer wanted to, the new key would be in the Submediant key or it could carry on in the tonic key.
Typically, if the secondary dominant movement was a dominant seventh to a dominant seventh, then a Lydian flat 7th scale would be used (based on the Jazz minor) on the fourth scale degree of the newly established key, but if it's a dominant 7th to a minor 7th, then the Harmonic minor is used. This is what usually gives Jazz improv a really exotic sound, on top of the many chromatic and passing notes that the player is already giving in relation to guide tones and major notes of the key.
Often artists (like Coltrane or Gillespie) used this. When people say that Jazz is very free-form, that is wrong as fuck. It's incredibly complex in structure, and I'm missing out a lot.
Charlie Parker is the guy to check out if you really want your mind blown
Dude had an INTENSE knowledge of theory and how he applied to his playing was just absurd. He would develop themes in his improvised solos that would cycle through harmonic minor, melodic minor, secondary dominants, etc. etc. and he would apply it in his solos in ways that were melodic and interesting. There was really no precedent for playing like that at the time and I have no fucking clue what drove him to develop those instincts.
