Eminem was the original meme rapper
Try De La Soul or Run-DMC
Or Afrika Bambaata
Rap was a mistake from the beginning
>>63271461
I was a mistake, too. Doesn't mean I'm not beloved by God.
>no 80s rappers were meme
>no 90s rappers were meme
beastie boys were walking memelords, amiga.
>>63271472
There is no god. Only darkness.
>>63271488
God is darkness.
>>63271486
>no 80s rappers were meme
like whom?
>no 90s rappers were meme
like whom? I count eminem in the 90s. aside from him, i thought of kool keith.
>>63271605
>like whom?
Beastie Boys and Biz
>>63271612
neither of those are meme rap. beastie boys are just shit, that doesn't make them a meme.
>>63271643
>beastie boys are just shit
lmao why do memerap fans have such shit taste
Paul's Boutique is possibly the best hip hop album of all times
God I fucking hate rap. Musicianship was at an all time high in the 80s after people like Yngwie came along. Then rap had to come along to the mainstream and fuck up the youth to become wanksters and wannabe rappers. That's why you have so little people playing real instruments now compared to back then.
>>63273048
>literally you
>>63273048
>real instruments
>>63273196
>>63273212
What the fuck are you people saying. Is there anything false in what I'm saying? Sure there are still great musicians and music, but you'd be lying if you said it's as prominent as it was back then. The general public listens to garbage, and especially the up and coming generation. Please explain to me how I'm wrong. I don't know where you live but where I live most people listen to the same shit repeated over and over with a drum beat on it. To me, rap is not as much music as it is spoken word. But honestly, that's not the problem of the genre. I'm sure if someone wanted to they could make rap with a more varied structure. The problem is that the people eating up the shit is okay with that minimalist song writing strategy. But whatever. I want to hear your point of view.
>>63273304
Youre right but you should leave
/mu/ is a meme board for meme people
>>63273304
>The general public listens to garbage
Just as they did in 1960's, 1970's, 1980's... There's a good reason we mostly remember good music from that time and many of then popular songs and even number one tracks which were obvious cashgrabs and nothing more than novelty records are all but forgotten.
>>63273304
Rap is music. Many have made rap with a more varied structure. You can easily look examples of such variation up. The Roots, Aesop Rock, E-40, UGK,these acts and so much more can be found in any chart recommending hip hop albums.
Mainstream music listened to by people who just want to listen to a catchy tune cannot be used as a benchmark for an entire genre. Moreover, if that mainstream music effectively uses a minimalist song writing strategy, if they prioritize melody over lyrics, or any other such thing, then you should not insult people for enjoying it. They should be allowed to like whatever they like.
>>63273304
Music, or at least the popular music the general public listens to, has always been just as shit as it is now.
I know it's easy to look at the Katy Perry's and Pitbull's of today, and contrast them with the music you know from the past, but Katy Perry and Pitbull will be forgotten in 10 years. The music that you still listen to from the 60s and 70s and 80s is not all that similar to what the average person listened to then...
basically this >>63273332. Also, go look at Grammy winners and billboard charts going back decades. Most of that was total shit. It takes time for the best music to bubble up to the top and join the musical canon of that decade. Look at Pet Sounds or Pink Moon for example. Lukewarm reception at best, now legendary.
On rap:
You have to understand that there is a lot to appreciate about the genre but it's very different things than you would look for in rock, which I'm going to assume you listen to mostly.
What rap albums have you listened to?
>>63273332
Even music like Disco, and 80s pop had a higher degree of musicianship then rap. I dont know if youve noticed but in almost every 80s rock song, even a 80s pop rock/power pop song, there was a time where there would always be a solo at the end of the song after the riffs repeat. I'm not talking about just song lyrics here. I'm talking about musicianship period. Maybe I was unfair though. It wasn't just rap, although rap had a very big part to play in it. Beat It which was a pop song had that solo by van halen. There was this joke song that just made fun of disco called disco monkey or something but you could tell the guys still knew what the hell they were playing.
Technology is a double edged sword. This generation of "musicians" are being pushed to just load up fl studio and string a couple of loops together. I see such mind boggling things around by the ways people are being encouraged to start. Instead of being urged to pick up and instrument to better understand the relationship between things like harmony/rhythm/structure, people are being advised to buy a certain brand of headphones/monitors. They're jumping the gun. How the hell could you make music if you don't have any experience producing some degree of it with your bear hands? This is what I say when I mean the musicianship level is going down. Even if there were cashgrabs in the past, atleast we can be assured that they were playing real instruments, especially in the 60s/70s before sequencers came along.
>>63273196
R.I.P music 1910-2011
It's been 5 years but I still miss it you guys :(
>>63273463
I don't think you are aware of how much incredibly shitty disco there is/was out there. Most of it has been forgotten or even erased, and rightfully so.
>>63271643
watch your fucking mouth anon. I'd seriously slap you irl.
>>63273463
1. Not all modern pop is bad. Carly Rae Jepsen's Emotion is pop as fuck, and actually really good.
2. Any music you listen to from the 80s, literally anything, is the tip of the iceberg of music in the 80s. Maybe 10% of the music that was made and got radio play still has a decent chance to reach your ears today. The rest of it is forgettable and has been washed away by time. However, you're listening to the entire iceberg of music at this point in time.
3. I implore you to reconsider your view of how easy it is to make music electronically, without "real instruments". It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination, and you need a lot of knowledge of music theory to be successful at it.
4. Just because something is made electronically doesn't mean it's bad, or takes no talent to make. I really want you to listen to a couple of albums, I think they would go a long way towards changing your mind on this matter.
>Since I Left You by The Avalanches
>Richard D James Album by Aphex Twin
>Music Has The Right To Children by Boards Of Canada
>Madvillainy by Madvillain
>My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by Kanye West
Listen to all those and I think you might reconsider some of your opinions here.
>>63273458
As much as it may seem I'm not against rap period. Like I said, I feel rap is such an unexplored genre. The problem is that no one is willing to explore it. I won't lie to you and say that I listen to electronic music, because I don't. The closest I got to rap was Prefuse 73. I really felt like he pushed the game in terms of the structure of electronic music. But when I listen to his collaborations with rap artists, he plays it safe. Why? Is he afraid to mess up the groove? Why does rap have to be a standard 4/4 beat with a loop on top. Why can't someone come over and do something in 5/4, or 7/8? People are too used to the formula, that's why, and it's remained stagnant. That, and the things I mentioned above would require higher degree of music knowledge then just slapping a few beats together.
Some would argue that the reason rap loops so much is to keep the groove. While I see where theyre coming from, theres plenty of music that keeps a groove while also pacing development, maybe I don't know, the genre they originally got the beats from, funk? Or rock. I don't hate rap for what it is as much as I do for what its doing or what its done. Hope you could see what I mean bro.
And I listen to a lot of music. But if I had to nail down a few genres I guess I'd name Progressive Rock, classical, jazz fusion and maybe funk.
>>63273617
I see what you're saying, definitely. I can see why you value progression in a song so much, looking at the first three genres you listed. I'd urge you to listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by Kanye West though. If it has anything, it has exploration and progression. Listen to POWER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp1mVNOB5tg
or Runaway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rpKQvVsi9Y
those are two of the best songs on the album.
Also check out the rest of the albums I recommended in >>63273592, particularly the first three. I think those would serve as a good introduction to what electronic music can be.
>>63273668
listen to the whole album tho not just those two songs
>tfw /v/ regulars come to /mu/
>>63273463
>Even if there were cashgrabs in the past, atleast we can be assured that they were playing real instruments, especially in the 60s/70s before sequencers came along.
I just want you to keep in mind that early synthesisers and sequencers were a fucking nightmare to patch and program. Getting something good out of them took several hours of non-stop patching the modules and hoping that the voltage-controlled oscillators won't start to overheat. Making electronic music took as much work and passion as making music on "real" instruments, in fact, I would argue that due to it being so new and underdeveloped, it could be seen as even harder. I'd recommend you should read up on making of Tangerine Dream and Kraftwerk records if you're interested - that shit was hard.
Many electronic musicians of today also make music without taking many shortcuts like relying heavily on VST and making something in a DAW in an hour. Aphex Twin for example has a heavy interest in electromechanical instruments which have to be custom programmed and built. Some chiptune artists like Anamanaguchi use chips from 80's video game hardware as oscillators for their sounds. Venetian Snares has issued an album this year of music made on classic modular synthesisers, which he had to patch up and sequence on the fly. Electronic music creating can be as hard and rewarding as playing any other instrument, and if you have an interest in electronic engineering (like me), it could even be a way of developing your technical knowledge.
>>63273592
Everyone misunderstands me man. You can make anything on the computer. I can write a symphony in FL Studio. That doesn't mean that's what the majority of it used for. You're right, you do need a lot of knowledge on music. And I'm not saying things made electronically are bad either. Frank Zappa's Jazz from Hell was made entirely on one of the first computer workstations, aka one of the first DAWs. I have written music before, both analog and with a computer, and with both I have made varying degrees of shit and good. That doesn't change my perspective on what its doing to music. The problem is by cutting out that middle man- aka the road it used to take to be able to get anywhere close to recording your own music, people have gotten lazy. Maybe it seemed like I was knocking on all electronic music, but it's not. But I'm still gonna stick to my point/belief that this advantage of easily recording music in a computer has only helped stoke the fire of things like lazy rap music.
>>63272990
I'm not a meme rap fan, although I do enjoy hip hop. Beastie boys is just unironically shit and corny. Where lies the value besides your obvious nostalgia goggles you fucking boomer piece of shit?
>>63273717
I see your point now, you're right, I did misunderstand you.
I absolutely agree with you that there's a lot of lazy rap songs that get trendy, and there's tons of shitty uninspired electronic music all over the internet and in low-quality clubs.
But that stuff literally never bothers me, because I don't listen to it. Like, so what if a bunch of lazy rap music pops up? It's not like anybody's going to remember it in 10 years. Nobody's forcing you to listen to it. Who cares about how shit the current pop trends are?
Just listen to the good stuff that continues to be made and will continue to be made, and listen to whatever you want from the past.
>ITT Redditor tries to convince us rap is bad
>>63273714
Listen bro, keep making music. I was aware of that, but not to that scale so I'll give you that. I was never a big fan of Kraftwerk or those other big 80s electronic guys. The only band I ever got into from that era was Yellow Magic Orchestra. I agree that it is a skill to build on and master, like anything. But let me tell you man. The ability to improvise and create original music on the fly is always subconsciously based off your experiences and what has influenced you. And by learning for example the classical music repertoire, you have all that more power. If i'm a guitarist, and I've played (covered)varying degrees of spanish guitar, jazz guitar, and hell you name it-progressive rock, and I decided to just play something off the top of my head aka improvise, chances are you're gonna find traces of everything in my playing, as well as my own originality. By learning an instrument, you increase your own musical vocabulary. It's the reason why people do covers. You understand the music better. You can take what you learned, and use it in a different context, and mix/blend that with other things to make the possibility of your music endless. Almost nothing you hear was just based off nothing, everything was influenced by something. Since this "culture" (lets call it that) isn't in electronic music, you don't have as much development going on. This is why I stress the importance of learning a physical instrument. I won't say real since you seem to dislike that word.Not knowing a musical instrument hinders your ability to compose as well, since you don't have as much sources (aka repertoire of music you've had experience in) to choose from. While you could argue that just listening to other music enhances your knowledge of it, nothing beats engaging yourself in it real time. A lot of electronic music is simple, so the people influenced by it are probably gonna churn out simple music. Whatever though man, listen and write whatever you want.
>>63273808
What bothers me is the cultural aspect of it. People are being fed that music like that is "normal", and if you don't like that music, you're not normal. This is mostly worse in places like high schools, where kids that age are easily led to change their minds on things because of stupid shit like that. That kid is going to graduate with the mindset that the low bar is good, and at the rate things are going when the next generation comes a long it's going to be the same thing. So if I had to answer your question quick and frank, it would be the cultural aspect of it, that I is working against the society at large to allow skilled musicians and informed listeners to grow and flourish.
>>63273808
>>63273984
And another thing is that a lot of times I do feel forced to listen to it. What if I'm in someone else's car along with 3/4 people? I'm not about to tell the driver to shut that shit off if everyone else is enjoying it.
Not the anon you are responding to, but I don't understand your point. You can improvise too with hardware synths, with audio programming languages like Tidal and SuperCollider, or software like Max/MSP and PureData if you devise a sound-synthesis system that allows you to do that.
>A lot of electronic music is simple, so the people influenced by it are probably gonna churn out simple music.
It's the same shit with rock music. 90% of pop/rock songs are based around three or four basic chords (like D, C and G) and the pentatonic scale. And a lot of guitarists only play things like that.
If you wanna listen to complex electronic music, take a look at what Autechre put out in the late-90s/early-00s, or Grischa Lichtenberger for something more recent. Or Stockhausen if you really believe complexity is a good thing, and simplicity should be avoided at any cost.
>>63274522
There is simplicity, and then there is simplicity. I can hit a triangle for 2 minutes and it's simplicity, right? but it won't sound good. I agree with that as well in regards to rock music, especially radio rock. But my argument wasn't about simplicity. It was about how a lot of the tools available today are killing musician ship, and how rap played a big part in that. But if we want to talk about simplicity/complexity, I disagree with the opposite too. If it's a soft slow ballad, there's no need to shred all over the place. It's all about context man.
Why are there such long posts in this retarded thread?
Your realize 'meme rap' is a completely meaningless term, right? Just like "real rap".
>>63274604
because the discussion moved from "meme rap" to other less obnoxious topics
>>63274522
Anyway I'll check them out regardless friend. I will admit that at a lot of times I do like complex things better, probably cause of all my time listening to guys like frank zappa and captain beefheart, though that doesn't necessarily mean I'm void of liking anything simple.
>>63274568
>It was about how a lot of the tools available today are killing musician ship, and how rap played a big part in that.
I don't think it did. It just allowed some people who are less interested in mastering a physical instrument to make music too.
There are still plenty of people in the academic circles who can play Ravel's Jeux d'eau, and post-avant math jazzcore guys playing song in 23/11.
But if you focus on the Billboard Top 100, yeah it is shit, but it was always shit.
I mean, take 1988 for example. Most people here would say that Daydream Nation, Surfer Rosa or (talking about rap) that Public Enemy album were the best things to come out this year.
But if you look at the Billboard Hot 100, you will see George Michael, Rick Astley, and Johnny Hates Jazz. The only decent thing in there is Guns 'n Roses.
Do you think George Michael, or even, to go back further, Petula Clark for example were good musicians ? No, they were just singers, just like rappers today. Some pop composer and a bunch of session musicians did everything for them.
And some rappers today does some technically impressive stuff with their voices.
Stuff like Prince and Guns 'n Roses were more an exception to the rules than the rules itself when it comes to musicianship, I think.
However, one thing I agree with is that, nowadays, people tend to put out less refined stuff on average because you can shit a bunch of songs in an afternoon and put them out on Bandcamp, whereas before, you had to pay for studio time, so you didn't want to mess that up.
But at the same time, this kind of stuff on Bandcamp is more akin to demo tapes recorded with a shitty Portastudio than anything else.
>>63273901
YMO were well known for using a programmer for the sounds and using Roland MC-4/MC-8 sequencers (for studios and live) for most songs up until Technodelic, and then they basically were the first people to use sample based loops.
Kinda seems like you're just Dave Grohl-ing and you should probably stop arguing, because you're clearly uninformed on the topic.
>>63271580
I am God
>>63274891
this should be part of the sticky.
It bugs me how people constantly cite things that weren't even listened to by many people at all, shit you quite frankly NEVER HEARD anywhere as proof of music 'being better' back then
>>63271488
nice neonazi get m8
>>63273048
>Musicianship was at an all time high in the 80s after people like Yngwie came along
I can't believe people fell for this shitty bait.
>>63274130
Music you listen to socially and music you listen to alone are two entirely separate things. You would have to be autistic not to realize this.
