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>this bland pop muzak (which can be considered faux avantgarde at best) is unironically the #1 album of all time on RYM
Before millenials took over it was long recognised that the best albums included A Love Supreme, The Velvet Underground & Nico, Astral Weeks, etc. How the actual fuck does the average music hobbyist in the internet age have an inferior taste to music listeners of the past? You can literally listen to anything you want with minimal effort, what went wrong?
people with actual good taste dont use rym
van morrison is even worse then radiohead actually
>>63267435
>Millenials
Unless you're a boomer or 30+ years old, you're a millenial too.
Either case why the fuck are you bitching here instead of playing golf?
>minimal effort.
does that answer your question?
This is by no means a phenomenal jazz recording, nor is it a particularly unique one. VU&N and AW similarly only considered the best recordings in their genres or even by their respective artists because of hype that surrounded them upon release which has now been immortalized. This is not an unknown effect. Consider the death of Jackson Pollock and the way that was marketed. That still impacts painting sales and the entire direction of modern art. In retrospect, to the careful listener, there are better closely related albums by any metric for the careful listener.
OP, you are not so much better than the people rating OK Computer highly. You are equally prone to hype and careless listening. Even if you do not consider the albums you mentioned the best, the fact that you mentioned them betrays the fact that you think anything has changed.
>>63267435
It's not even aspiring to be avant garde. It's well produced, enjoyable rock music. I don't know a single person who hates it which is probably why it's #1 on RYM.
It's a good album.
>>63267711
you failed to give examples of better albums
>>63267758
I don't see how this is a requirement of anything I said, and it seems to be a way to discredit me by critiquing any choices that I may post.
While I'm sure my choices would be flawed, that doesn't change the fact that the OP's notions of the decay of musical opinions are also flawed.
>>63267435
It is essentially pop but they go into a lot of interesting directions. Multipartite songs (Karma Police, Paranoid Android), psychedelic tendencies (Subterranean Homesick Alien, Lucky), dabbles with the aggressive (Climbing up the Walls, Electioneering). The only time it really gets bland is probably Let Down and Exit Music but that's hardly enough to tarnish it as a whole. It is the greatest thing ever? Hardly, but it's not bad contrary to /mu/'s, well, contrarian stance on everything that gets recognition on sites they hate.
>>63267711
A more technical musician may be able to explain this better, but I feel ALS is as great as it is because it combines John Coltrane's early and late phases seamlessly without feeling too much like a transition album. There are some good albums in both but they're lacking in certain elements. John Coltrane's early phase was often too structured and standard to really be anything but a 6.5/10. His late phase was more exciting, but it lacked any kind of direction. ALS takes these elements and makes his best album. That's why I feel A Love Supreme is considered his best besides the obvious crossovers to classical
>>63268064
In John Coltrane's case, I don't take issue with the selection of album, I take issue with the selection of artist. While he Coltrane is a good enough band leader, player, and writer, he is extremely far from the best Jazz has to offer.
The staggering amount of talent in Jazz is enough for anyone to find someone they prefer more than Coltrane if they listen enough.
>>63268064
>The only time it really gets bland is probably Let Down
'Let Down' is probably the most uplifting song I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.
Existential Thom is vocalizing an emotional metamorphasis manifested with the overwhelming feeling of freedom one experiences when they find themselves with nothing left to lose. 'Let Down' picks up where Kafka's 'Metamorphosis' protagonist, a grotesque man-turned-insect, is giving up hope in his life's worth and contemplating whether society would be better off if he were dead. The insect creature, in great despair, eventually decides to die alone in his room.
'Let Down' is so inspiring because Yorke doesn't give up hope; he has faith he will endure the insect stage and the crushing societal torment it brings; one day he is going to develop into a butterfly and be free. Existence precedes essence. Thom isn't looking for anyone's pity as it only ends up drivel. It's useless anyways because he has to do it for himself -- he must break through the artificial identity society has defined for him which he knows will inevitably crumble. He must develop his authentic identity from within so that he may have something of substance to bounce back up off of after his fake world breaks down. Only when his existence is authentic to himself can he have freedom.
These are some of the fundamental concepts of existential philosophy.
>>63268196
wew
>>63268169
Well yes of course there's more than Coltrane when it comes to jazz. I'd argue in fact that his wife made a better album than ALS in Journey in Satchidananda. However I feel that this:
>The staggering amount of talent in Jazz is enough for anyone to find someone they prefer more than Coltrane if they listen enough.
Is sort of blanketed. My dad in particular actually plays jazz in a local band and has hundreds of jazz vinyls and LPs and still thinks Coltrane is the best jazz musician. Some records may be prone to overhype but that doesn't mean that sometimes, hype can't be warranted. Whatever it is, Coltrane resonates with both unexperienced and experienced musicians in a way the Pyramids doesn't despite their quality. Whatever that is could be the fact that Coltrane decided to sign to Atlantic and Impulse, however, that doesn't explain why even some technical jazz musicians think Coltrane is the best (Not to say that all do, just that the opinion that Coltrane is the best isn't simply driven by hype or ignorance. It may be a crazy idea on /mu/, but critically acclaimed things are usually critically acclaimed for reasons).
>>63268196
OK but that doesn't really make up for the utterly bland instrumentation and standard structure save for the odd time signature (Which really makes it more dreary desu). I always though the lyrics were more about a more basic alienation and the high and the lows of life(As does Jonny Greenwood) but that's a nice way to look at it.
>>63267435
but that actually is #1. its not trying to be avant-garde you idiot, its just a flawless rock album
>>63269014
>Electioneering
>"flawless"
>>63268064
>. John Coltrane's early phase was often too structured and standard to really be anything but a 6.5/10
Holy shit one of the worse opinion i've seen in months
Frank Zappa was a pretentious suburban stuck-up prick who made weird garage music because he didn't like his parents. He was "meticulous" in order to justify how absurd his music was, and it doesn't actually have an alternative structure worth discussing.
>>63269165
I appreciate the technicality but it doesn't resonate much compared to Coltrane's later phase. There are times where I enjoy listening to it but there's nothing in those albums that really catches the eye from an emotional standpoint.
>>63268905
What's bland about the instrumentation? Yeah it's suppose to sound dreary...
>>63269813
Just sounds like your average mellow 90s pop rock song. "Dreamy" guitars that really sound more cheesy and counter-productive than anything. The utterly bored, yet unrelenting delivery of Thom Yorke. The general feeling of a generic Coldplay song. Never got why this song of all songs is praised as a highlight. I've always seen it as an useless song. And I don't mean dreary in a good way. Plodding is a better word really. Climbing up the Walls is a much better attempt at a "dreary" sound because it doesn't sound like Travis, has more nuances to its instrumentation (Violins, trip-hop drums, underpinning synths, electronic flourishes, varied guitar), much better vocal delivery, and has a more dark sound in general
>>63270033
High and dry sounds more like the typical 90s mellow rock song, like coldplays yellow
Let down is like this weird shift to something much more vulnerable and interesting.
>>63270119
Maybe in the context of their last album but compared to everything else on OK Computer its purpose and novelty is simply lost because nearly everything else is so much more interesting than what's going on in "Let Down". Let Down feels like a derivative of The Bends, an album that was very ordinary to begin with.
>>63270233
How can you call it novelty when their whole goal for ok computer was to create these individual songs with densely produced atmosphere, similar to dark side of the moon. You could easily say that's THE most novel album ever
>>63270432
I didn't call Let Down novelty. I said Let Down lost novelty because everything else on the album is more interesting and dynamic than arpeggiated guitars and Thom Yorke's worst vocal performance. Let Down just sounds like a basic "mellow" song in an album that accomplishes that sound far better multiple times. If Let Down has an atmosphere, it's not one that really resonates in a way the album doesn't already accomplish. That's why the song is essentially pointless
>>63270613
But no other song on the album ends so beautifully with the sequencer and then the last note being a guitar strum/string plucked, as if to suggest the change in the narrator won't come artificially (sequencer, cold, calculating) but naturally (acoustic guitar, a very warm sound)
It's a very smart song when you think about it, and its production is quite amazing
>>63269033
>almost flawless
>>63270838
The sequencer might work in this metaphor you've set up but it doesn't really work musically as the coda to the song (And even if it did, it wouldn't be enough to save the song from the painfully generic instrumentation). I guess it serves its purpose but the entire structure of the song is just so plain. Polished beige is still beige. No Surprises does beauty better. Subterrean Homesick Alien's has much better lyrics than Let Down while essentially having the same theme. Hell, Fitter Happier uses computers better even though it's an interlude.
Anyways, the way this conversation is going it's likely we won't change anyone's mind so agree to disagree?
Ok Computer is an incredible in my opinion. the emotional impact of it is incredibly powerful.
i would rate it 9/10
>>63271150
Well I mean if you've made up in your mind it sounds cheesy or bad, no one can change that, but it's been universally and critically considered to be a triumphant in music, as well as shaped the entire last decades sound
I personally think ok computer is the greatest album ever made. It's not my favorite as that would be held for Lonerism, but truly think it's one of the best SOUNDING albums ive ever heard, I'm thinking Abbey road dark side of the moon pet sounds loveless king crimson whatever
Do you really find it generic? In the context of the album, yes, it does sound like no surprises, but you also have to consider most of the vocals were done in a single take because Thom felt he would become too self conscious and notice how silly it all sounded with overdubbing
Also, subterranean alien is about being taken away from your current situation to a better one where people undersand you, whereas let down is about overcoming society, people, and ultimately yourself to achieve enlightenment or a new expanded consciousness
>>63271282
>Do you really find it generic?
Yes. I've already explained why so I won't go into further detail.
>but you also have to consider most of the vocals were done in a single take because Thom felt he would become too self conscious and notice how silly it all sounded with overdubbing
That still doesn't excuse the flaws that were developed because of that decision, but OK.
>Also, subterranean alien is about being taken away from your current situation to a better one where people undersand you, whereas let down is about overcoming society, people, and ultimately yourself to achieve enlightenment or a new expanded consciousness
Hence why I said essentially. The dilemma is nearly the same, it's just different interpretations and solutions.
>>63271541
I'm glad you're in the minority no offense because as well as not only liking myself, nearly everyone ever agrees it's one of if not the best album ever made and there's a whole cited wiki page explaining how it's not bland countering all of your frivolousness
>>63271602
>nearly everyone ever agrees it's one of if not the best album ever made
Am I supposed to care about this? The praise of this album is far, far, overstated. Some band members even back this up
Thom Yorke:
"We write pop songs ... there was no intention of it being 'art'"
Jonny Greenwood:
"In England, I think a lot of the reviews have been slightly over-the-top"
Even some of the band members concur that the hype behind OK Computer is out of control. Not even considering that in a BBC survey with thousands of people, they had OK Computer as the 6th most overrated record ever. So clearly not everyone agrees that OK Computer is one of the best albums ever made.
The existing state of affairs isn't always necessarily desirable
>there's a whole cited wiki page explaining how it's not bland countering all of your frivolousness
What? Are you talking about the OK Computer wikipedia page? It gives an overview of the album, its background, and reception. What was countered? Nothing in that wiki page even addressed my criticisms.
>>63267473
This. If you seek validation for your shitty opinions on sites with people who have similarly shit opinions then you are just a sheep.
