prove me wrong
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Electronic music is the modern equivalent of jazz and classical.
It's usually alot less complex than jazz and classical.
>>63239523
Without giving any context into how they are equivalent your statement is absolutely fucking useless.
jazz and classical are the modern equivalent of jazz and classical.
Not everything has to be an equivalent of something else. It seems like it's just an easy way to try to make sense of the world.
>>63239570
They both have no lyrics and very complex sound
>>63239615
This
>>63240160
Except jazz and classical are art music and most electronic music isn't
And there's also the fact that a fuckton of music meets that criterion
pic unrelated??
>>63240160
>what is vocal jazz
>what is opera
>>63240160
all jazz isn't instrumental, and have you never heard of opera?
Classical gets so stale after a while. Jazz is music for musicians looking to detox their minds.
>>63240160
>implying math rock is "lyrical" and has a "simple" sound
>implying post-rock is "lyrical" and has a "simple" sound
>implying ambient is "lyrical" and has a "simple" sound
>implying noise is "lyrical" and has a "simple" sound
>>63240173
Define "art music"
>>63239523
>dubious premise
>zero supporting arguments
>pic of one of the worst electronic musicians
EPIC POST OP YOUR TOTES NOT A FAG
>>63239523
Metal
electronic music predates jazz though
>>63239523
Maybe, but not pic related
>>63240423
the original jazz music predates the original electronic music by like 20 or 30 years
terrible thread
This is so horrifically wrong I don't even know where to start
>>63240244
Music passed down through common notation based around a universal "canon"
>>63242130
Nice counterargument
>>63242152
define canon
>>63242292
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music
>>63242310
Kill yourself
>>63240244
Music that was rejected as 'true art' at first but then later people who wanted to feel like special snowflakes decided that it actually was 'true art' all along
The Beatles will be called 'art music' in 2030, mark my words
>>63242325
I'm just making a point to show you're retarded
>>63239523
ayyy lmao
do you know how music works?
>>63239523
literally go back to r/music
>>63239523
Except Electronic music is the most accessible genre of all time.
>>63240173
>Except jazz and classical are art music and most electronic music isn't
Sounds like you havent been listening to the right electronic music, senpai
Electronic music is not only easier to produce, but is easier to write. If anything, popular electronic genres, mostly DJ-centric ones are nothing more than a highly manufactured and overproduced form of art meant for the consumption of the lowest common denominator.
Jazz and classical are more complex, take more time to write and are, at least in the modern age, meant for specific audiences. In electronic music, you don't have to worry about writing a part for an ensemble in a different key. In classical and in jazz, there are different sections in different keys that the composer must arrange and transpose in order for each instrument to make the collective chord. French and English Horns are in F, all string instruments are in C as well as trombones, and Trumpets are in Bb.
I suggest you learn a little something about music composition before posting...
fucking normie
>>63242722
/thread
>>63242661
Art music doesn't mean "music that is art"
It has a specific definition
Once everyone and their mom can make it, it's not so special. It's not really electronic music in general that's not special, it's laptop music, (Cracked FL Studio)-core
This is one of the worst threads I've seen on /mu/ in a while. Congrats OP, you're bringing this board to new lows
>thread = cancer
cancer > thread
>>63239523
Depends what sub genres of electronic music.
>>63243229
>>63239523
actually... no
Here, Might I suggest some jazz and music theory lessons for a normie cuck as yourself
http://www.musictheory.net/
http://www.jazz.org/
Please educate yourself before spewing bullshit
>>63240244
It's a pretentious word for hipsters who think that older genres are better automatically because they're older, also fucking idiots who think that all music isn't art.
There is simple electronic music and there is complex electronic music. The term is too broad to say such a thing. deadmau5 for example generally makes very simple beats that are easy to dance to (even though ego/attitude-wise, he's the hopsin of electronic music) It's just dance music.
Aphex Twin on the other hand creates extremely complex instrumentals that might be comparable to classical music in the fact that it's complex. Otherwise the two genres aren't comparable as they are worlds apart.
>>63239523
this will never be true, simply because electronic music (depending on the maker) will always have an element of collage to it, ie tasteful selections of found things) while performanced-based music will always feature a physical, studied and spontaneous unique creativity. it will always be on another level.
>>63243348
>Art music—also known as formal music, serious music, erudite music, or legitimate music (sometimes shortened to legit music) —is an umbrella term that refers to musical traditions, implying advanced structural and theoretical considerations and a written musical tradition
This is stupid. Music is music, regardless of style. Why listen to classical music any differently than you would listen to a very complex electronically produced piece of music? They both involve creative effort and talent and they are both genres of music.
>>63243535
>written musical tradition
You're a total retard
I'm not saying classical is better or intellectually superior to electronic, it's just based on a written tradition (NOTATED MUSIC) that electronic isn't, so it's hard to compare
>>63240423
This is simply false.
>>63240423
and if that were true, how would that matter?
>>63243581
yes
Some artist are true musicians (Dave tipper, bassnectar, pretty lights, tycho, grizmatik, zeds dead, moby etc) but the vast majority are just personalities who are good to at marketing themselves but have short-lived stays in the limelight. The genuine guys get a following and stick around for decades
>>63243742
>true musicians (Dave tipper, bassnectar, pretty lights, tycho, grizmatik, zeds dead, moby etc)
>>63240632
Yeah, the comments are disappointingly uninformed on so many things
>>63239523
If you mean that most is shit and the good stuff will most likely trascend, yeah, you're right. But that is also true for pop (rock, if you wish to call it that). The only superior music is true folkloric music, because, in order to be folk, it has to trascend first.
>>63243649
i agree with this stranger anon whom ive never met before ever
>>63244239
please love me
>>63244315
>in order to be folk, it has to trascend first
bullshit
you dont think that half of folk music is yar get drunk and fuck the days go by get drunk and fuck there's more work to be done then we die rimey-oh me oh me oh?
>>63244346
It's the voice of the population. I can't control that. What I meant is that, for x to be x,
pop: has to be recorded and sold.
jazz: has to be performed with swing and certain tonal characteristics (?)
classical: has to be written
folk: has to be recognized within a population as representative.
The rest of the music has the same value as the whistling I do while taking a piss.
>>63244443
but whistling while pissing is the essence of folk music
>>63244480
pop: wanting pussy/money
jazz: wanting freedom
classical: wanting to fit
folk: taking a piss
It's still the purest form of music, if you ask me.
>>63239523
jazz and classical take talent.
>>63244543
Not every classical musician or jazz musician has talent, and you will have to be very stupid for me to think you really believe that.
>>63244528
is this folk music?
>>63244620
No, it's the mean for creating folk music.
>>63244620
whoops:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-eYbUVZedY
>>63239523
Electronic and classical are such fucking broad terms you dense motherfucker.
EDM is way more boring.
but jazz and classical are hugely different art forms
like opposite poles
>>63240244
electronic music is just synth scoring. its computer music, it may sound cool but its not art because it cant be played back and it can't be interpreted differently like classical or jazz music can be. its just an mp3
>>63239523
electronic music will never be the new equivalent jazz or classical because unlike edm people used to be able to go home and play a song they liked on the piano or guitar or whatever they played. people can't just learn electronic music on their pianos or make a band with people to play edm songs and enjoy it like they do when they listen to it. music when you're playing it is how well you can replicate and interpret it. both classical and jazz emphasize this, and also just listening to it most edm is made by trash wanna be musicians, and the rest just use the same tricks as the older generation of synth heads. and even good engineers like RedOne, who every producer tried to replicate start to sound old after reusing old tricks. its not an art like jazz or classical
>>63242722
>Electronic music is not only easier to produce
you dont make music yourself do you. Making a solid electronic record is really hard.(not looking at some poprecords, and bigroom house those are actually a disgrace towards electronic music)
Composition may seem like a hard thing to do. But to keep a certain chord progression interesting for 6 minutes isnt much easier.
>>63239523
Electronic music is only good when mixing with war webms or for instance this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMeXKNbJYuk
>>63240238
>ambient
>complex
lol
Go to bed Joel.
>>63239523
>no real instruments
>all songs sound exactly the same regardless of "style" or "subgenre" and always have the same structure
>anyone with a computer can create it
>modern equivalent of jazz and classical
>>63240485
not him but nope, he was right
damn OP u really are a master baiter. well done
>>63240234
>Classical gets so stale after a while
Depends what you mean. If you mean the classical period (ie 1750 to early 19th cent), then you're right.
If you mean all of classical music, you're very wrong.
>>63239523
I think there's a lot of impressive electronic music that could be equivalent of jazz, but unlike jazz, some of it doesn't require any skill or soul. Which makes it incomparable.
>>63247394
>doesn't require any soul
that literally doesn't mean anything at all
>>63247394
"soul" isn't real
>>63247400
>>63247411
I'm not talking about "real" soul like a ghost or something, I'm talking about imperfections and organic feels. Which of course you could recreate in electronic but it's not the same.
>>63247429
>you need to make mistakes to make good classical music
really?
>>63247436
>imperfections
>mistakes
I'm talking about jazz, subtle offbeats riffs, dragging, rushing. I don't know shit about classical music.
>>63247411
>"soul" isn't real
>>63247466
none of those things are imperfections
>>63247314
Obviously club music is gonna have the same 8 bar phrase-based structure every time.
How else are you going to DJ using analogue tech, fampai?
>>63247481
>he doesn't ascribe to materialism
>>63247488
you are right but I don't know how to explain you my point. I quit
>>63243290
Oh shit, chords. You can make cool synth arpeggios with those
>>63247528
haha i'm just messing desu
i kind of agree with you but i reckon an AI will figure it out eventually
>>63239546
Yes and no.
The problem is we have an over-saturated market where big record labels are pumping out models behind a CDJ kit to promote their brand.
Electronic is infinitely complex, but you won't see many people taking advantage of that.
I will say one thing about deadmau5, mental breakdown aside, he called all this shit happening years ago before anyone else did.
>>63247528
accidentals? syncopation? i'm guessing too
>>63247528
You are referring to Groove and Offset anon. It's a particular practice utilized in several genres, but notably in Jazz.
Pro Tip: The best Electronic artist utilize the technique as well, but you won't hear anyone talk about it because it's considered a "trick" of the trade.
>>63247466
these sorts of accidents are in fact quite easy to create in the digital realm, thus: >>63243504
chaps like stockhausen would be the interesting intersection between the found, the programmed, and the performed
>>63248304
technically, electronic music cant groove. its just not possible. its a body/player thing. you could simulate it with subtle accents and pushes, and can probably be quite effective, but it will never be grove for real.
>>63248382
Bro what. Unless you are sticking strickly to grid/piano roll writing, and using quantization like a mother fucker, that shit makes absolutely no sense.
>>63248470
im a drummer and i write music on my computer. so, i actually know what it is to make music groove. i suppose it could be reduced to attacking and pushing here and there, but that just aint what it is. you get two drummers in a room playing bass snare 1234 and you'll know the fucker who can groove and who cant. the machines cant do it, but i suppose there is some decent enough simulation. but it still aint the same. if it makes no sense to you - its because you dont understand it in the first place.
>>63248382
Groove Armada, Jamiroquai, the list goes on..
House and acid jazz and all funk / ''electronic'' fusions are groovy as fuck
>>63248643
no, thats not how its works, babe. but thanks for playing. syncopation is groovy; pulling and pushing the beat isnt groovy; groove is just about hitting it right somehow. a dull drummer and a groovy drummer can play the exact same part and one has life, one doesnt. i dont know why.
>>63245634
>musique concrete is not art music
>>63245634
>never made any music before
>>63242722
so why does the speed and method of making music contribute to how viable it is as a genre compared other genres?
>>63242722
lol
using keys
faggot i have ableton
i am a god
>>63248591
Bro are you really making the argument that if a guy is playing off a midi keyboard as opposed to an acoustic piano, then he'll only be able to have groove on the piano?
How the fuck do you think Electronic music is made? It's not all just basement producers clicking and dragging shit on their macbook.
>>63248840
read the thread faggot
>You are referring to Groove and Offset anon . . .
and stop being a faggot if you can bother to get all the dicks out of your mouth
>>63248840
by your logic a guitar plugged intoan amp is electronic music
>>63239523
>deadmau5
nope
>>63247314
>no real instruments
>pushing a button to make sounds is somehow different from plucking a string to make sounds
>>63248265
You got any articles of Deadmau5 calling shit? would be interesting to read
>electronic music is just laptop + DAW
Electronic music is music that employs electronic musical instruments and electronic music technology in its production
An electronic musical instrument is a musical instrument that produces sound using electronics. Such an instrument sounds by outputting an electrical audio signal that ultimately drives a loudspeaker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_musical_instrument
1 Early electronic musical instruments
1.1 Telharmonium
1.2 Theremin
1.3 Ondes Martenot
1.4 Trautonium
1.5 Hammond organ and Novachord
2 Analogue synthesis 1950–80
2.1 Modular synthesizers
2.2 Integrated synthesizers
2.3 Polyphony
3 Tape recording
4 Sound sequencer
5 Hardware hacking
6 The digital era 1980–2000
6.1 Digital synthesis
6.2 Sampling
6.3 Computer music
6.4 MIDI
7 Modern electronic musical instruments
7.1 The Reactable
7.2 Percussa AudioCubes
7.3 Kaossilator
7.4 Eigenharp
7.5 The Xth Sense
7.6 AlphaSphere
8 Chip music
9 DIY culture
9.1 Circuit bending
9.2 Modular synthesizers
>>63246588
I do make music, but thats beside the point lmao. The idea of making a single chord progression interesting for several minutes is really easy. its called track layering
>>63248809
because it shows how meaningless it is compared to music that takes work to make buddy
>>63249134
you have to be kidding
>>63239546
Melodically, usually. Tonally, no fucking way. Arrangement-wise, electronic music is far more complex.
>>63249707
Just look at his twitter
>>63248591
modern sequencers have good enough resolution (ie sample rate) to accurately record the exact timing of events present in your playing
if you can play it, it can be electronic music
no exceptions
Electronic music will never be the modern equivalent of jazz or classical because electronic music is it's own, unique thing.
>classical: fancy dancy in ballrooms
>house/brostep: fancy dancy in clubs
>jazz: music for poor ass working class niggas
you guys are either
a) retarded
b) pretentious as fuck
>>63242722
go fuck yourself grandpa
talking about how people should get educated about MUH CLASSICAL MUSIC! in your deadass born-in-le-wrong-generation bullshit.
>In electronic music, you don't have to worry about writing a part for an ensemble in a different key
ooooh woow I like how then you go ahead and spew shit about instruments being in a different key like it's something really hard to work with.
> at least in the modern age, meant for specific audiences.
good job on generalizing things brother. Have you even listened to rossz csillag alatt született?
also, harder to make =/= better
(very edgy 'fucking normie' closing statement tho, you sure schooled everyone in this thread)
>>63242871
you can fuck off too
>>63243290
actually... yes
>>63245634
this is bait
>>63249773
your music is probably shit since you have no idea of what you're talking about
>>63250066
there's a lot of electronic music that defies standard musical notation and rules though
>>63248591
or, you know, you're shit at producing
Good job OP, starting the thread with a pic of Deadmau5 to further the "all electronic is dance music"-bullshit
Electronic says nothing about how the sounds are arranged, only how they are produced. You can have jazz or classical with electronic sounds. What the fuck is the point of this thread?
>>63242722
boiling the merits of a genre down to skill promotes wankery and would also make stuff like modern prog rock inherently amazing, which we all know isn't the case.
>>63250460
It's just the typical dying breed artist who only know one instrument, mad that Electronic artist have now become mainstream and proven to be the superior creators.
>parnders think its just the ones on the right.
>>63249707
You can find some archived videos back when he used to livestream way in like one of his old old studios and would actually talk to viewers while recording shit.
deadmau5 was a really fucking cool guy back in the day. And would help you out and answer questions if you weren't a complete asshat about it.
prank semi-related, one time he livestreamed him prank callink skrillex
>>63239523
No. Modern jazz and classical are the equivalent of jazz and classical.
>>63249707
https://news.beatport.com/en/deadmau5-calls-out-krewella-for-wireless-ultra-dj-set/
He pretty much calls out any fraud act, and sell out in the industry. Krewella has been his pet project for like 5 years now.
>tfw he was right about them the whole time
>>63248265
nice post
i dont follow him.. what mental breakdown? is it over his trophy gf dating steve-o now?
>>63251298
Nah, basically he had a meltdown on twitter about some shit, and is pretty much just completely fed up with the current industry and how the jews keep trying to force the real acts out and make it impossible to perform anywhere unless you sign their jew nigger record labels.
He shut down his twitter, and came back apologizing to fans and citing depression.
Honestly who can blame him. He basically is one of the founders of the EDM empire, and now it's getting taken over by the pop industry.
He's also still butthurt about the whole Skrillex thing too.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2415637/deadmau5-suffering-depression-temporarily-shuts-down-twitter-account/
>>63251495
edm was always pop he has no reason to complain should just shutup and be happy that he made millions with generic as fuck music
My theory is that one half of the world plays on the beat, the other half plays off the beat.
Any classical piece revolves around playing on the beat, the whole orchestra is a metronome.
Syncopation can be scored, but it's still on the beat at the end of the day.
Put a drum with it, it sounds atrocious.
There's a couple of jazz pieces where they try and play classical pieces in a jazz style ... they're appalling.
Most electronic music (except the stuff that's composed by "classical" experimentalists), jazz, pop, all play off the beat. It plays around the beat but not on it - which is why a drummer is essential in a non-on the beat piece.
The two genres really can't be mixed.
>>63252367
nigga u high
>>63250272
>modern sequencers have good enough resolution (ie sample rate)
>sample rate
No. PPQN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulses_per_quarter_note
Sample rate is a property of digital audio and has nothing to do with a sequencer's timing resolution, look up your favourite sequencer's PPQN options instead to see what it can do.
That's not to say that you can't juggle individual samples within a sampler to get even finer resolution than what your sequencer can give you, but that's down to your sampler, not the sequencer itself. Capturing and playback of notes in the sequencer is always related to its PPQN value.
Modern sequencers have PPQNs in the high hundreds so there's lots of scope for tiny variations in timing.
bleep fags im looking for this album help
i cant remember it's name
>>63252694
plastikman consumed
>>63252740
Thanks a lot man, i love you
>>63252667
>Sample rate is a property of digital audio and has nothing to do with a sequencer's timing resolution,
it does if you use maxmsp
sorry you use inferior software
>>63251104
Yeah, you're not all bad Joel.
At least we all know you want out.
But we also all know you want another Ferrari.
>>63252856
The Max scheduler can go down to microseconds but that has to do with CPU cycles, not sample rate.
prove yourself right
>>63249813
assuming that you are comparing two pieces of equal quality and saying that the one that is electronic was easier to make would that not make it therefore superior?
if an artist is able to output work of equal quality faster would that be a good thing
>>63251032
jack of all trades, master of none
electronic has the possibility to be as monumental as jazz or classical, but i'm not as well versed in either as i should be to make that call.
the truth is, there's pulp in all genres, and comparing bach with skrillex is a poor argument. can anyone recommend some really great electronic?
this thread is perfect proof of the subjectivity of music; the fact that people are so divided and opinionated on the simple organization and disorganization of sounds is fascinating.
to throw in another fence-sitting point, electronic, jazz, and classical are incredibly open to interpretation, and is it really possible to compare electronic, having only been around since the start of the 20th century with a western musical tradition that's been around for centuries?
you guys should learn to argue. fucking embarrassing shit, senpai.
>>63253453
>not doing all your sequencing at signal rate
what's wrong with you?
>>63253528
They're gonna be a master of all since they can fix their mistakes
>>63239523
There is electronic classical. Gesang der Jünglinge is probably the most well known.
>>63253919
>really great electronic?
Well, look into IDM. Autechre, Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada are like the big three. I'd listen to Aphex Twin's Richard D. James album or Selected Ambient Works 85-92 first.
>>63253919
eh, you might like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zaSzHqVrLA
>>63253919
depends on what your brain resonates with the most
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4iwBLZJCNE
