why do people give hip hop shit for being repetitive when several influential genres/artists (krautrock, early electronic, prog rock, swans, neu!) are praised for such structures?
>>63116310
Because it's made by the evil black man anon
>why do people give x shit when x, y and z?
this isn't so much a discussion as it is bitching, man
>>63116310
Because most hip hop take much less talent to create the music compared to the genres you mentioned
We don't give it shit for being repetitive we give it shit for being musically simplistic, lacking in experimentation, and lyrically/topically base
>>63116353
>OP makes valid point
>lol ur just bitching dude
I get what you\re trying to say but since when was prog rock praised for being repetitive
Racism obviously.
>>63116336
Pretty much.
>>63116389
I think he meant people complaining about hip hop are just bitching.
also, why is repetition desirable? I can get into all those genres I listed and like them a lot, don't get why it's praiseworthy tho
>>63116353
True!They just want to bring peace and rap about their struggle...
Publications that pretend rap is legitimate art are the same as gaming websites that pretend Gone Home and The Witness are great or film websites that pretend the latest race-bait/oscar-bait film are great.
>>63116452
>>63116381
those three complaints get blown out any day of the week.
I do see the repetitive argument a lot though.
>>63116424
maybe it's prog rock in the loosest sense, I meant Neu!, can, vangelis, swans, even though the latter two are just tangentially related
Honestly, when I don't like hip-hop, it's not because of the repetition, it's because I don't really like the sounds they are repeating. Also, a lot of the genres and artists you mentioned above use repetition to create a kind of hypnotic effect, and sometimes a lot of enjoyment comes from seeing how tiny changes to the repetition occur along the course of the songs. In hip-hop, the point of the repetition is usually to support the rapper so they have a steady beat to go off of. Now that really isn't the case in instrumental hip-hop, but I find the instrumental stuff gets shit on a lot less anyways.
>>63116477
Was meant for
>>63116431
>>63116558
>those three complaints get blown out any day of the week.
Then do it now, because I've never seen it happen.
>>63116310
Becuase /mu/ doesn't like fun.
>>63116540
Let me guess, The Dark Knight/some other Nolan flick is your favourite film?
>>63116637
2001ASO
>>63116381
>lacking in experimentation
Its pretty clear to me you havent listened to much
>>63116726
Name some "experimental" hip hop artists.
Bear in mind that "experimental" != rapping over noisy beats.
>>63116591
gangsta rap =/= hip hop as a whole
topically base? see outkast, aesop rock, CD era kanye, very early eminem, death grips, the GZA, common
lacking in experimentation? see death grips, wu-tang clan, native tongues posse, madlib, beastie boys, DJ Shadow
musically simplistic? see DJ Shadow, paul's boutique, flying lotus, kendrick lamar, most plunder phonics, some newer Dr Dre tracks
>>63116740
Death Grips
>>63116740
dilla, flylo, dust brothers, lil ugly mane, DJ Shadow
>>63116752
The only person in those who has interesting lyrics is Aesop Rock, don't kid yourself.
> see death grips, wu-tang clan, native tongues posse, madlib, beastie boys, DJ Shadow
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
None of those are experimental you fucking idiot.
>>63116787
>>63116788
See above.
>>63116740
Lil B, Lil Ugly Mane, Earl Sweatshirt, Da$h, Kill the Vultures, NAH, Spark Master Tape, Cities Aviv, Yung Lean
Apparently, to HHH, "experimental" = taking something another form already did then rapping over it.
At least Jazz is a creative discipline, Hip Hop is hopeless and commercial as fuck.
>>63116827
HHH is trash, dont listen to those faggots
>>63116863
I know, and it sucks that they come into /mu/ for threads like this and pretend fucking LUM and DG are high tier artists.
trying to get some opinions on my rapping and general feel of it. at a funk and looking for inspiration. https://soundcloud.com/user3286468
>>63116800
>death grips
>not experimental
its terminal then
>>63116929
They're as experimental as Radiohead.
>>63116888
LUM is pretty top tier though
No one in HHH even talks about him, they ignore any and every release that isn't commercial
>>63116800
well let's have a discussion about it.
>building an entire album out of samples
>not experimental
uhhh OK
RZA also flipped samples and took really odd piano chops and made them beautiful, I think that's pretty praiseworthy.
Kanye might not have interesting lyrics, but rapping about college and jesus was new, same with outkast comparing their lives as underground hip hop artists to being aliens, and Common doesn't do much that the rest of native tongues does but he is extremely lyrically vivid and perfected extended metaphor before other rappers knew what it was.
>>63116827
this is a good counterpoint to people who think DG is le most experimental band evarrr
>>63116955
>as experimental as radiohead
>>63116443
>also, why is repetition desirable? I can get into all those genres I listed and like them a lot, don't get why it's praiseworthy tho
It can be done in ways that make a larger statement. Unwound is particularly good at this. Their music always has this flattening of affect theme to it, particularly on the album Repetition, that I think repetition contributes a lot too.
>>63116888
shit on death grips if you want but LUM is possibly the best hip hop producer alive
>>63117029
>too
Before someone corrects this rather than acknowledging my point, typing is hard.
>>63116955
excuse me, sir?
>>63116984
>RZA also flipped samples and took really odd piano chops and made them beautiful, I think that's pretty praiseworthy.
re-read your statement
do you honestly believe that?
how limited is your perspective on music, like holy shit
making a composition full of samples is as old as 1950 (Stockhausen, Song of the Youths) and in a live setting as 1969 (Berio, Sinfonia).
>but rapping about college and jesus was new, same with outkast comparing their lives as underground hip hop artists to being aliens, and Common doesn't do much that the rest of native tongues does but he is extremely lyrically vivid and perfected extended metaphor before other rappers knew what it was.
But that's just new *for hip hop*
Hip Hop has never done anything new or creative for music as a whole. it exists for its own commercial sake
>>63117030
Not experimental.
>>63117006
Am I wrong?
>>63117100
>LUM
>not experimental
look at this kid
>>63117128
See: >>63116827
>>63117071
>But that's just new *for hip hop*
name one innovation in any popular music genre from the last 15 years that wasn't just blending other things that had been done before.
bonus: name one that wasn't done in jazz or classical before either.
>>63117071
>Hip Hop has never done anything new or creative for music as a whole. it exists for its own commercial sake
yeah it's not like there's been a huge underground scene since the 90s with non-commercial artists making experimental non-commercial albums that never made it to the charts or never got famous in the mainstream
hip-hop is just all for profit from the masses, sure.
>>63117169
>taking anything posted on HHH as fact
>>63117237
>name one innovation in any popular music genre from the last 15 years that wasn't just blending other things that had been done before.
I can't, but I don't want to shit all over popular music *in this thread.* We're focusing on Hip Hop.
>>63117237
this is what youre asking
>name music that doesnt sound like music
>>63117271
but hip-hop is popular music
it's not all pop, but it's not art music, or classical, or folk, or world. so it's popular music no matter how popular it actually is in terms of sales. this is basic shit.
>>63117307
I don't think you understand what I said.
I agree that all popular music is derivative of art music/jazz.
>>63117128
>LUM
>experimental
I like him a lot too but he's not reinventing the wheel.
>>63117071
I've heard song of the youths too mane, it's not plunderphonics
also, you obviously won't agree with this statement but rap in and of itself is an experimental art form, real poetry isn't rhyme obsessive and only slam is meant specifically to be read aloud, this is definitely new to the mainstream (unless you want to mention artists like King Crimson who had poets writing their music, which is gr8)
>>63117338
>I've heard song of the youths too mane, it's not plunderphonics
It *IS*, however, entirely made with samples.
>>63117369
lmao tons of fucking music is made up of samples.
plunderphonics is chopping up songs that weren't meant to go together and then forcing them to fit.
>>63117404
>plunderphonics is chopping up songs that weren't meant to go together and then forcing them to fit.
Yeah because the human voice and sine waves were meant to go together.
>>63116310
>prog rock
i thought the whole point of prog was that it's more structurally elaborate than vanilla rock
>>63117426
Youre the only one that thinks they werent meant to think because youre not creative, youve never even thought of it before so it just puzzles your mind, youre just a faggot with hotsauce up your ass
A creative person can look at human voices and sine waves and think that theyre the perfect combination
And that goes for anything, just because you havent thought of it before, doesnt mean they dont belong together
>>63116827
tfw Miles Davis loved hip hop
>>63117534
So what's your point, nothing can be plunderphonics then? lmao you just proved yourself wrong faggot
>>63117426
>the human voice and sine waves
What the fuck is this supposed to mean? All sound can be represented by sine waves.
>ITT: Dad Rockers BTFO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVljTwZzonA&ab_channel=Amoeba
>>63117573
yeah and he was shit at it
>>63117577
you're an idiot.
>>63117534
>youre just a faggot with hot sauce up your ass
go back to /b/ anytime kiddo
>>63117426
I think you misunderstood my point, lots of music is done deliberately with samples like that (like literally all electronic music is partially sample based)
but DJ Shadow, the dust brothers & beastie boys, the avalanches, had to take other people's music (that wouldn't have even been conceived of fitting together earlier) and make cohesive good songs
I can't even tell what you guys are arguing about viz a viz plunderphonics.
What's the point?
>>63117605
You said:
>>63117404
>plunderphonics is chopping up songs that weren't meant to go together and then forcing them to fit.
But somehow you're saying pure electronic sounds and the human voice were meant to go together? But clips of different human voices (like in Since I Left You) WEREN'T meant to go together?
you have no argument motherfucker
>>63117654
sounds to me like you're being purposefully obtuse about plunderphonics. part of the point is the limitation of not getting to create your own sounds. of course a human voice was "meant" to go with whatever you want if you sung it to fit, be they electronic noises or found sounds or whatever.
what's it all mean?
what's he saying when he says it?
what's the underlying topic?
what's the motive in his message?
>>63117654
because Stockhausen sampled the voices with his project in mind. it would be different if he just picked up two different records and somehow forced them together.
>>63117643
it's fucking stupid. OP here, I think I got my answer up above tho
>>63117717
>>63117747
I'm sorry but you faggots have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
>>63117654
>But somehow you're saying pure electronic sounds and the human voice were meant to go together
Why would they not be meant to go together? We invented music, there is no like "natural order" of how stuff is "supposed" to go together.
