At what point does "separating the art from the artist" go too far?
How much should outside context factor into the quality of an album?
the author is dead.
artistic intent means nothing.
artistic biography is superfluous and redundant.
I live by this rule: if outside context keeps me from enjoying the album, I willfully ignore the context. If it doesn't bother me, or it helps me enjoy it more, then I pay attention to it.
>>62613151
nice
>>62613135
this, to a fairly large degree, but the artistic trajectory is still context that is relevant and evaluated as part of the whole, consciously or not
separating the art from the artist is what Kanye should be doing t b h
>>62613073
did he give MBDTF a 6?
>>62613151
This seems like a correct approach
>>62613151
so you're
basically are a conviction free zone.
have you ever thought of getting involved in politics or law?
>>62613201
Anthony shouldn't touch anything hip hop related because his reviews are like youtube comments condensed in video format, cringe
>>62613073
oh fuck that channel im not gonna watch white nerds discuss music, they´re just gonna be sassy and complain
>>62613073
0%
Syd Barrett, Can, Robert Plant, John Lennon and all of the Beatles, Robert Plant ect. where all fucking lunatics and would say stupid and meaningless shit but everyone disregards it. Kanye just has a huge platform to spew shit out of his mouth from just he naturally gets a lot of hate.
>>62613261
except the rating is spot on
>>62613073
This review and Pusha T's My Name Is My Name are so unfair, baka fandango
>>62613151
I mean as a matter of personal policy this is totally great, but as a matter of criticism it's an inconsistent approach.
Like the person above, I would subscribe to the death of the author theory. I only really care about an artist's biography when addressing the topic of "authenticity"; otherwise I just don't care. No matter what the artist's biography, the music has to be good. If the music is not good, no amount of biographical detail will save it.
I think Fantano subscribes to that theory and that's what contributed to his giving MBDTF a 6. While I think that particular album deserves a higher grade than a 6, I agree with him 100% on every single point he made about TLOP.
>>62613323
MBDTF isnt a 6 lad
>>62613323
yeah, no.
>>62613260
No, I do have convictions, just not in the world of art. Unless, of course, someone victimized someone and then tried to justify that as making art. They wouldn't technically be wrong, as art is any arrangement of any material according to the will of the artist, but such art would be too unsavory for me.
>>62613073
Unless the artist starts a genocide, I don't really give a shit what the artist does outside their music.
>>62613420
>as art is any arrangement of any material according to the will of the artist
are you aware of the current year
>>62613388
>>62613408
You guys are right, 6 is generous. The mixing is awful, there's blatant plagiarism, and way way too many idiotic features tacked on just to add the celebrities name to the liner notes.
I'd give it a four
Fantano, this shit dont add up. Youre making them mad as fuck
>>62613135
first year english student detected
barthes will always be wrong
If the item is a statement on said concepts, then accept the outer parts of their lives as one with the art. When the art is removed from the artists life, then do not make the association. Granted, and artists behaviors/mannerisms may REFLECT in the art, but its not the same as making your life art, the ways Kanyes continues to try. As a huge Kanyefag, its nothing new, we just see him growing from person, to producer/rapper, to heart struck agonist, to power/spotlight hungry, to ego death, to living with mild psychosis. Atleast, thats how his discography reads for me
>>62613525
thats a very hot opinion, thanks for sharing anon
In Kanye's case, you can't separate, since he's consistently referring his private life.
>>62613525
>there's blatant plagiarism
calm down RDJ
i always listen to an album first before finding out anything else about it. if i like it, context will have no effect on it, if i don't like it, context might clear things up about it but if the songs are just not clicking for me, then context can't save it.
>>62613420
We like to think of art as separate from life but it isn't. When we value art for its technical brilliance but ignore what it promotes or what the person we elevate by rating it highly is like, we're making a choice about what people will be considered role models.
Do we want to be surrounded by assholes? Materialists? Hedonists? Egomaniacs?
If you enjoy the company of people like that, sure, go ahead and praise their art publicly.
Ultimately, the game of art is subordinate to the game of life.
>>62613445
>current year
Kek, that was so current year
>>62613073
it's so pathetic to me that the lot of you think you don't care about the context of albums. you absolutely do....it's the music first and foremost but everything from the album cover to the musicians themselves to the critical acclaim to the perceived "image" in associating with an artist can and very often do factor in no matter what you say. this is the same for all media of art
>>62613889
>Ultimately, the game of art is subordinate to the game of life.
Well, you could say that.
Unless you detach yourself from life long enough to look at the bigger picture and realize that life itself is also art in motion.
>>62613983
>because I am a superficial child, you are too
Nope!
>>62613135
>>62613577
Yeah this, death of the author is fucking nonesense english professors just push it because if it's true it allows them to feel smarter
English is a fucking horrid major. It'll get phased out within 20 years its pretty much 90% actual pseudoscience.
>>62613151
This is what I came to post. No reason to let art be ruined because of outside context.
>>62613314
If anything rappers mainly play character for the public. Not all but a lot. MBDTF shows that for Kanye. He wrote about how being egotistical and acting like you're a god can lead to a life of suffering. I think people don't really think about the contrast between him and the album often.
Fangammo's review of MBDTF is what made me subscribe to his channel and positioned him as a more objective and honest reviewer than Pitchfork and friends. When you get down to it, Kanye is a great spectacle but not a phenomenal artist. He makes some awesome songs, but not everything he does is fantastic. MBDTF was hailed as "literally perfect" with 10/10s everywhere, but you can't tell me there isn't room for improvement on some of it.
So Appalled, Hell of a Life, Blame Game, Lost in the World and Who Will Survive in America aren't anywhere near perfect.
Any information that can help you understand the piece better is good.
>>62614062
>90% pseudoscience
M8 English 100% pseudoscience. THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF ART. shit isn't real; the concept of science doesn't apply.
>>62613585
>we just see him growing from person, to producer/rapper, to heart struck agonist, to power/spotlight hungry, to ego death, to living with mild psychosis.
Wow I never considered something like this. Even if I'm only mildly into Kanye's music this is definitely a very interesting take on thing. It makes me want to relisten to his discography.
>>62613073
Art should never separated from it's context. That just makes it sterile. There is no other way to properly view art.
>>62614062
>death of the author is fucking nonesense
not really
it's not a 100% rule, but it's applicable more times than not
and to ignore it is just being willfully obtuse
context affects everything, that's just a fact of life famalam
What's the meaning behind
>I loved you better than your own kin did.
>>62614246
alright let me dial it back
death of the author is usually used by english professors as a means to make themselves and their interpretations of whatever book is the topic du jour the center of the discussion. they will use it to imply that they know more about the book than the author actually does or did.
>wuthering heights is about "racial othering!" never mind that brontë wrote it over 100 years before that term was even created, it's the hot academic buzzword right now and so that's what the book is about. am I tenured yet? why not I'm just parroting what the Yale english department says about everything.
>>62614491
But you're completely missing the point of the thread and complaining about English classes. What's the point? Just because some English professors use it in certain ways doesn't mean the original idea is a bad one.
>>62613073
>How much should outside context factor into the quality of an album?
When said artist uses his artistic platform to talk about himself and these "outside contexts."
I feel annoyed when Kanyeshills like you tell people to separate the art from the artists since hip hop is a lyrically driven genre and Kanye Wests favourite (and only) topic is himself.
>>62614531
well it gets warped by modern professors
sorry I have a lot of pent up anger about my classes right now I have a professor who's unironically teaching saussure and using the term "metaphysics"
Can't believe this white boy gave Ye a light 6.
>>62614491
I don't believe that anyone who teaches death of the author will claim that their personal interpretation is the correct one
>>62614052
mega eye roll
Death of the author is a nice thought experiment but you will never and can never separate the author from the work, the time period, language, location, or any other context that surrounds it. Everything is connected and everything should be discussed within this greater context while also applying it to our own contemporary context that we throw onto the work.
Now will they still evoke it to dissuade little shits from gossiping about the author, yeah but it's not really necessary out of high school.
accept Ye and his art together, approach with empathy and an open mind but don't sacrifice your own values. Still the more mindful you are the more you will understand that the difference between you and him (both good and bad) can feel so small that you can't help but feel for him.
>>62614597
Don't expect honesty from shills, anon. Look at what they admire, what they're willing to justify and you'll know their god and what to expect from them.
>>62614052
i, too, denied caring about aesthetic thinking i was walking some sort of musical holy ground until i was 24 or so
I want to believe it doesn't matter.
Yet with Kanye West, his ego, persona and personal life play such a huge part of its music that it's hard to separate.
And then we raise further questions of whether or not Kanye West's persona is part of his act and if it should be judged alongside his persona.
Yet, liking a person is so very different form liking an album or piece of music.
The best option is to form your own opinions and arguments and weigh them against others, like Fantono
>>62613135
Paratext is inescapable in art. To deny it is to deny the world.
>>62613151
first actually smart post i've seen in this board
>>62614703
Well i mean they'll tell you that because they earned their PhD from UC santa barbara that their interpretation supercedes yours if it doesnt line up with their own personal brand of literary theory
Kanye should return to the style of MBDTF's opulent, maximalist production.
I don't get why he says in that review that you need to be invested in Kanye's life to enjoy the album, I could give two shits about Kanye and I loved MBDTF.
Also
>mfw fantano considers TLOP as good as MBDTF
>>62613151
Basically this. Exception for me being if the outside context is heavily involved in the album's creation. Even if it's "negative context", if the album skillfully reflects that concept it scores points in my book.
