Why do people like hip hop? the music is so boring, just a bunch of uninteresting loops with uninteresting vocal rhythms
gr8 b8 m8 8/8
>>60808341
jesus christ why can't hip hop fans actually talk about their music without resorting to shitposting?
Modern day hip hop turntablism is the closest popular music gets to art music.
Turntablism repertoire has written notation, creating a musical part or score for their compositions and pieces. Great examples are DJ Yoda & Heritage Orchestras Concerto, Martin Tetreaults musique concrete for turntables, Kid Koalas Your Moms Favorite DJ, eriKm and DJ Spookys Ice Music works.
Of course, the history of the turntable being used as a musical instrument though has its roots dating back to the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s when musique concrète and other experimental composers (such as John Cage, Halim El-Dabh, and Pierre Schaeffer), used them in a manner similar to that of today's producers and DJs, by essentially sampling and creating music that was entirely produced by the turntable. Cage's Imaginary Landscape No. 1 (1939) is composed for two variable speed turntables, frequency recordings, muted piano and cymbal. Even earlier, Edgard Varèse experimented with turntables in 1930, though he never formally produced any works using them.
This school of thought and practice is directly linked to the current definition of hlp hop-related turntablism, though it has had an influence on modern experimental sound artists and composers such as Christian Marclay, Kid Koala, Otomo Yoshihide, Philip Jeck, DJ QBert and Janek Schaefer. These artists are the direct descendants of people such as John Cage and Pierre Schaeffer and are often credited as a variant to the modern turntablist DJ and producer.
>>60808428
in spite of this copypasta the music's results fail to deliver
>>60808377
this thread is shitposting
>>60808461
No, it was an honest question
>>60808445
Explain.
>>60808377
Jesus Christ why can't people make threads without resorting to bait posting?
>Why do people like hip hop?
Why do people like music?
>the music is so boring, just a bunch of uninteresting loops with uninteresting vocal rhythms
You could insert the boring meme for nearly any genre.
>>60808503
well I certainly haven't heard instrumental hip hop that is particularly complex
>>60808514
do you have any actual explanations for why you like hip hop?
or just shitposting
>>60808234
>d.j. Mustard
>This is hip hop
>>60808542
So you just blankly wrote of turntablism because you've not heard any good music from a different style of hip hop and that just because 'you don't like it' with no actual reasoning.
Yeah, we're done here.
>>60808592
I dislike instrumental hip hop because I've listened to a good amount of it and don't enjoy the music. It's too, well, boring. There's no real interesting harmonic development in the tracks, just loops. There's no virtuosity either.
This conversation isn't about avantgarde classical music that uses turntables, which 1) is an INCREDIBLY small section of it and 2) is INCREDIBLY inferior to the rest of it.
>>60808234
>>60808542
I'll give you the fact that it's not particularly complex, but hip hop is appreciated for it's diverse range and accessibility.
You can literally go from dark and depressing noise-influenced stuff like dalek and then whack on some sonically pleasing, head bopping thugger the next, with ample examples of everything in between.
Plus, literally anyone can rap but it takes good vocal skills to do it properly, so you can enjoy the music without necessarily having the burden of music theory/instrument practice.
>>60808661
So again, you are talking about a different style of music which doesn't fit with your description due to admitted ignorance. One that uses completely different instrumentation, style, approach, production and ethos.
Keep on digging.
>>60808745
What is your point? If you don't want to discuss hip hop why are you in this thread
>>60808489
then your honest answer is that the genre continues to evolve whether it be through lyrical content, the rhythmic portion (flow) and production (most often all together, ie, young thug, drake, kanye) and maintains a strong fan-base without alienation. it is the biggest wave in the ocean of music and you're not a special snowflake if you don't like it
>>60808783
I am talking about hip hop.
You are the one obviously not grasping the differences between the many styles of hip hop music through your ignorance.
>>60808785
none of that is a reason to like it though
>>60808730
I'll give you accessible but
>diverse range
fucking really? come on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HilGthRhwP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KQW2YnCUrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aySwfcRaOZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bucVwI0RfEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6eHunEysA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_53J5VS_guk
>>60808846
instrumental hip hop is what you are talking about.
>>60808848
What was the point of the 3 pop/rock songs?
>>60808848
It is diverse though, it comes from the simple nature of the main principles of hip hop that can be expanded upon in so many different ways
but idk if you don't like it then that's okay
>>60808870
Pointing out that Rock has a more diverse range than Hip Hop.
Unless you can provide a bigger contrast?
>>60808869
Again, your ignorance only furthers this pointless conversation. Hip hop originated and existed its former years instrumentally, the MC'ing was only introduced at a later date.
>>60808897
They are all the same genre, there is no more diversity there than in hip hop.
>>60808933
So you're attempting to say that all hip hop is as complex and artful as instrumental hip hop.
Basically.
>>60808954
>They are all the same genre
That's the point they're all rock you dingus.
>>60808897
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxpDa-c-4Mc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA8DsUN6g_k
did i do it?
>>60808987
...no.
>>60808975
Why do you keep saying ''instrumental hip hop''? Hip hop is instrumental at its core, its unnecessary not to mention saying both hip hop and instrumental hip hop just shows your complete lack of knowledge past the current FotM artists and pop-rappers like Kanye.
>>60809036
Because I assume you want to talk about Hip Hop without an MC therefore Instrumental Hip Hop.
>>60809086
Is that how you define classical music? instrumental classical and classical?
>>60809112
Well there is a definitive categorization between instrumental and vocal music in classical music so yes.
>>60809144
So that is how you define the two yes?
Same for rock? There is rock and there is instrumental rock?
>>60809167
I'm sorry, what are you doing?
I explained to you that yes, there is a differentiation in classical genres like vocal music (lied, song cycles, etc.) and instrumental music (concertos, symphonies, etc.).
Do you have a point to make?
>>60809207
> (lied, song cycles, etc.) and instrumental music (concertos, symphonies, etc.).
So you agree then there is a further difference between classical and instrumental classical?
>>60809240
I agree that there is instrumental classical, and vocal classical music.
Now back to hip hop.
Are you talking about instrumental hip hop?
>>60809268
So lied, song cycles, etc. and concertos, symphonies, etc. are completely irrelevant labels, only classical or instrumental classical now?
Can you make up your mind.
i like 36 chambers
bring the ruckus
bring the ruckus
bring the ruckus
bring the ruckus
>>60809313
Those are further, more indepth classifications between the distinctions of instrumental and vocal classical music.
Now back to hip hop.
>>60808234
Op if you don't see the value in this music you're a chump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay9BWM8lwOA
>>60809362
There are, okay.
How do you define these important differences?
Structure? Instrumentation? Compositional methodology?
>>60809402
If you don't want to discuss hip hop then I won't continue talking with you.
>>60809473
I am trying to but first I need to understand why you define the differences in musical styles as you seem unaware of the structure, history and different styles of the hip hop umbrella and until we can reach this, its a pointless conversation because your ignorance is placing a brick wall in the way.
If you don't want to learn thats fine, you can choose blissful ignorance and write it off and move on, makes no odds to me.
>>60809560
>as you seem unaware of the structure, history and different styles of the hip hop umbrella
Classical music has this defined by academics who study this music for decades and over time have analyzed music for centuries.
You're conflating hip hop with this, which is evidence that you're being pretentious.
Now, if you want to talk about why you like hip hop, let's hear it. Otherwise, have a nice day.
>>60809560
Hip hop isn't the same as other genres. You don't even listen to it the same way. It's rhythmically applied poetry, it's main focus is the lyrics and the flow. Some hip hop is just made for dancing, some is profound. There are many different genres like trap, west coast, 90's hip hop, r&b hip hop, East coast, old school, conscious hip hop, etc. The differences aren't so dramatic as in other genres because the music itself isn't the main focus.
>>60809639
There is no such thing as "profound" hip hop.
>>60809622
The definitions and differences between different styles of music does not require decades of academic study, just common sense, the same in hip hop but you are obviously choosing to ignore this to continue writing off the genre regardless so yes, this is pointless as you are wilfully disregarding it.
>>60809639
>It's rhythmically applied poetry
Thats only a small part.
> it's main focus is the lyrics and the flow
Thats false too.
>There are many different genres like trap, west coast, 90's hip hop, r&b hip hop, East coast, old school, conscious hip hop, etc
Why do you only think rap is hip hop?
>>60809716
Have a nice day.
If you'd like to join the conversation about why you enjoy hip hop, feel free to enter.
>>60809732
Sure, if someone who understands it joins in.
>>60809683
Okay man, be a cock that's fine.
Changes is pretty well put.
>>60809716
When compared to rock, metal, jazz, pop, yes. The lyrics and flow are more important than the music.
>>60809683
Depth is subjective you dumbfuck.
>>60809768
Not really, no.
Jazz is a very music driven genre so yes, the rest have an equal importance laid on both lyrics and the music even if they work with and without.
So far we've had:
1) shitposters
2) a pretentious moron
3) 2 people with reasonable posts
we're getting hte full spectrum
>>60809835
Which ones which?
>>60809831
Anon, stop being an insufferable cunt. When looking at different genres of music, it is abundantly clear that the backing music is the least complex part and is simply to provide a base for the most important part in hip hop.
>>60809831
If rock had and metal had as much focus on lyrics as hip-hop does the "guitar hero" and the "shredder" would have never become pop culture caricatures. Nor would have "solos" ever became a thing that people discuss.
>>60809877
Listen to better hip hop.
>>60809888
99% of rock and metals lyrics are extremely vital, its why nearly all popular and acclaimed rock/metal has vocals, people quote vocals, feel threads run rampant on the board and people refuse to listen to rock without them. Lyrics are quintessential to rock/metal.
>>60809940
Holy shit anon, why are you like this.
If you take your average rock, indie, pop or metal song and compare it to your average hip hop song, it becomes clear that the music is just backing for a rap or to make people dance. It's the least complex part of the music in that genre.
>>60810022
Why am I being like what? Its not my fault your scope and experience of hip hop is so limited you have little knowledge and comprehension of the variety of the genre and have limited yourself to the lowest common denominator dance-rap music.
i like it though
https://soundcloud.com/stonesthrow/stones-throw-podcast-92
>>60810065
Anon, show me a song with a complex back-beat that is well outside the wheelhouse of rock music.
>>60810117
Do I look like a teacher? I'm not interested in schooling you, make your own journey.
I just came in to the thread to answer a question and I'm still waiting on a discussion on it but no one seems informed enough here to do so.
>>60810194
So you're full of shit, you know nothing about music and you equate posting a single song with asking you to fill the duties of a teacher. Kill yourself tonight you whiny prick.
>>60810265
Great retort, I like how when people don't get spoonfed on this board they throw a tantrum like this.
Also, maybe if you stopped listening to shitty pop-rap with generic EDM loops for MTV like Young Thug and Kanye and actually explored past your rapper with a simplistic beat in the future you'd not lose so many arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM69XPC9oeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38atRejUORM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjb9i5r9inc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S-aVCbiA-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMYMC6atRoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflfiylNNXY
>>60810368
Anon, not only is that stuff not that complicated, it in no way represents the norm in hip hop. My argument is and has been that on average hip hop gets most of its musical value and complexity from the lyrics and delivery, the music is not as much of a focus of complexity as in rock, jazz folk or metal.
How does it feel to be this autistic?
>>60810487
>the norm
>the average
>the lowest common denominator
...and theres your problem.
>>60810487
If you defined all music by the norm and the average then rocks heights are Queen and The Foo Fighters and Jazz peaked with Kenny G.
>>60810487
>rock
>complexity
oh i thought you were serious
>>60810553
Average by default isn't the lowest common denominator chief.
>>60810594
>>60810720
It's like you guys try as hard as you can to avoid all popular music to the point where your frame of reference doesn't make sense to anyone but yourselves.
When we're talking about a genre of music, it makes sense to base the definition and character of that music off of it's normal manifestations. There are always exceptions, there are always exceedingly good and bad artists, they don't define the whole genre. The genre is most characterized by its most common form. When someone says "rock music is X" they're referring to common rock music. If they were going to be more specific they would have been more specific.
>>60810594
>>60810720
So when I say "normally hip hop is like x compared to other genres of music" I'm not referring to obscure artists or offshoots of the genre, I'm talking about the genre as is normally manifests, the genre that everyone knows and is somewhat familiar with.
>>60810992
rock is like the simplest formula ever man, jesus
i mean theres a reason people make a distinction for prog
>>60810992
>When we're talking about a genre of music, it makes sense to base the definition and character of that music off of it's normal manifestations.
Yes, the literal average to the hip hop you refer to is Green Day, Panic At The Disco, Foo Fighters, Fall Out Boy, The Who etc so your pointless argument that rock etc is more complex than hip hop just fell flat on its face.
It never fails to amaze me that /mu/ explores the depths and smorgasbord of all rock music possibilities yet sticks to and is never willing to look past radio rap.
>>60811070
Yeah, and The Mars Volta make more complex music than in nearly any hip hop song. These norms don't stay the same. Simple hip hop is still simpler than the simplest rock and complicated rock is more complicated than complex hip hop beats.
>>60811051
Still not as simple as hip hop beats. Keep in mind, I love hip hop. I'm just saying that it's value comes mostly from its lyrics and flow as opposed to compelx melodies, key changes and time changes.
>>60811148
>I'm just saying that it's value comes mostly from its lyrics and flow as opposed to compelx melodies, key changes and time changes.
I really don't see why people are trying to refute this.
>>60811217
I've been getting some pretty bitchy responses for elaborating on something that I thought is pretty well understood amongst musicians.
hip-hop is the highest form of music ever created.
you can back to listening to your "H4RD FUCKING C0R3!" now kiddo
>>60811257
Think about it this way:
/mu/tants do not like being told that their music isn't more complex than other music. They want to believe they are enjoying something superior to everyone else.
So while you are perfectly correct, they feel somehow offended because they can't claim some kind of elitist musical superiority.
If they actually appreciated and understood hip hop and music in general, there would be no kerfuffle like this.
>>60811322
*tips fedora*
>>60811322
I'm definitely getting the vibe that they're being so defensive because it somehow personally offends them.
there is a fair degree of complexity in rapping and scratching compared to most genres but hip hop got slowed down and it got more about style and the style can be complex at a low tempo as well, it can be about the shape of a word so all your ideas about complexity are a bit low res if you get me
>>60811419
I never said the lyrics and flow weren't complex, that's actually just about the opposite of what I've been arguing man.
I don't like it therefor is bad xd
young thug is literally and unironically the greatest artist of our generation you fucking idiot
>>60808428
>modern day
>hasn't been relevant to either hip hop or pop culture for 15 years.
STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE
WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE A THING I DONT
WHAT IS SUBJECTIVITY I THOUGHT APPRECIATION OF ARTISTIC EXPRESSION WAS OBJECTIVE
OP is fucking 13
>>60811452
yeah loops i know
but its like saying all rock tracks have a guitar in, ultimately meaningless
Here's an Idea:
Value doesn't come from complexity or virtuosity alone
Hence nirvana, neutral milk hotel etc
>The "it has to be complex in order to be good" meme
>>60809622
So considering that there are now hip hop studies programs in most major schools, it's really only a matter of time, not actual quality difference, that separates it from classical music, as far as the relationship to academia is concerned, so that's a particularly ignorant argument. There are already people who have been publishing academic work on hip hop for 20 years.
>>60811357
>denounces people trying to feel superior
>fedora meme
pathetic
>>60811474
agreed, when he says "london on da track" I get really emotional
>>60809888
Nobody has given half a shit about guitar solos since the 80s. How fucking old are you?
What if I said that rock music lacks the depth of Benny Goodman, and proved it by citing how there are no horn arrangements to give form to he solo sections. Rock music is 'retarded' compared to big band music, structurally, harmonically, and in terms of virtuosity.
Do you now only listen to big band music?
The reason this is so hard for you is that you have your head so far up your own ass that you think the whole world smells like your shit. Different people take different things from different music, it's only obnoxious faggots like you who think their own preferences are universal.
>>60811545
so mad
>>60811737
>no one gives a shit about guitar solos
You clearly aren't good at guitar.
>>60811633
There are commercial music programs in many schools, yes, but in actual music history and theory courses popular music is skimmed over due to the lack of interesting material.
Basically the history and theory courses are saying "here's what matters" and the hip hop courses are "so you want to have fun/get money?"
>>60811751
So capitalizing words as a sign of exasperation is anger?
Is it autism? Or projecting?
>>60811779
The only things I need to be good at to make that judgement are the ability to count, and a willingness to leave the house.
Face it, the guitar lost the culture wars to the "boring" loop, and you are now on the wrong side of history, expecting the rest of us who aren't perpetual anachronisms to convince you to join the 21st century.
>>60811782
>"so you want to have fun/get money?"
Might as well say that for every course then.
>>60811861
Classical music is not a money making profession.
>>60811843
>The "hip hop courses" you mention are commercial music, and intended solely for people who want to make money doing music.
Can I get some citations?
>>60811782
Way to explain something you literally have zero understanding of. Like, you don't even get how schools work. Hip hop studies is 100% theoretical and historical, like musicology. I have no idea what community college you're getting your version of academia from, but it's pretty false to be truthful, blood relation.
>>60811869
Says who?
You?
>>60811850
>the guitar is an irrelevant instrument
>you need a loop track in the 21st century
It's a good thing that the opinions of teenagers don't matter.
>>60811886
My citation is going to a large distinguished college of music while knowing friends in those programs pleb
>>60811931
Right, it's all about guitars now, everyone wants to be Yngwie Malmsteen in 2015, and loop based music is marginal.
Also, in 1967 when rock actually mattered, what did they used to say? Don't trust anyone under 30?
Teenagers are the ones whose opinions ultimately matter in the culture wars, gramps. Enjoy literally never mastering ever again.
>>60811969
Hmmmmm sure then
>>60812027
You realize that guitar is still all over popular music right? It's in most songs and almost all live performances. I'm 23 and that's old enough to know you're wrong.
>>60812079
rock is dead, faggot, name one notable rock band in 2015
rock fans literally hang onto metallica because their music form is so dead
>>60812516
X Ambassadors, Elle King, Royal Blood and Fall Out Boy all have top 40 rock songs on the radio right now and better rock still has a huge following. I also refuse to completely separate rock from metal which has a large, devoted following.
>>60811969
>most songs, almost all live performances
Yeah, you sure have your finger on the pulse.
>>60812714
>Hello dolly charted in the 60's therefore old timey jazz was still culturally relevant.
>>60812961
Rock music isn't going away anon. People are still going to play real instruments and even most pop music on the radio is just simple rock with keyboards instead of guitars.
>>60813006
People still sing barbershop quartet music, so what?
>>60813006
Outside of 4 anachronistic nostalgia bands, the rest of the top 40 owes significantly more to hip hop than to rock. How many songs have a key change for the chorus in 2015?
>>60813037
I guarantee that everyone here over 20 has guitar in a significant part of their music library if not most of it.
>>60813106
I guarantee that you jerked your dad off last night.
Turns out its pretty easy to guarantee things if you don't have to be able to back it up with anything. Also, spurious argument, as the issue is not the importance of guitar in the history of recorded music, it's where it stands today. Most of the bands people care about today are either guitar free, or else a remake of earlier musical styles. When's the last time a new type of guitar rock came out?
>>60813199
Your perspective is skewed because you're in high school. I'm done with this conversation.
>>60813240
Sure, that's why I know that hello dolly by Louis Armstrong charted in the 60's, it's probably because I'm too young.
>>60813199
>being this gay
