why is this allowed
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
why is this allowed
songs?
Because loud = good for people in charge of marketing music. There were apparently studies done that showed that louder music sells more.
BECAUSE LOUDNESS LMAO
Lel, Op fell for the "quieter is better" meme.
>>60649176
Fuck you, I actually cringe at that. Thanks a lot for ruining my day baka desu senpai
>>60649191
all of MBDTF
sounds like shit too
i dont see how a "mastering engineer" can listen to this and actually think it sounds good. the clipping distortion is so fucking terrible
>>60649218
>>60649301
Stop please, I can only take so much
>>60649301
It doesn't matter if it sounds good if it sells well.
>>60649423
But couldn't these mastering engineer not make the music brickwalled?
>>60649301
>>60649218
>>60649176
if u really want to cry then look at the iggy pop remix of raw power
>>60649476
probably, but perhaps this is how they were instructed to do it. at they end of the day they have to do the job their boss tells them to do, even if it's shit
that's just speculation tho
>>60649550
Its sad actually, I'm not too bother with it but sometimes I wish more modern albums are mastered properly. Bob Ludwig, Steve Hoffman, those are the names that come up when I think of GOAT engineers.
Also fuck Rick Rubin, he's the worst of them all.
what the fuck does it mean?
does it mean it detects that the signal is distorted due clipping? does it says "it will clip"?
clipping occurs when the input is too much for the amplifier, i.e. it distorces
but if I've a digital signal, what's distorcing? how can I be sure an amplifier wont be good enought to play the full scale?(that's why Im thinking that the signal is already distorted)
and if the signal is already distorted, how so? for example if I max out all the levels in ableton, and record a vsti+midi, will it see it as distorted? how could a digital file only digital be affected by hardware physical limitations?
I guess the limit would be the max volume a 16bit file could do
>>60649301
>>60649218
>>60649176
>SURE KANYE ISNT AN AMAZING RAPPER BUT HES AN INCREDIBLE PRODUCER!!!!
Kanyedrones will (attempt to) defend this
>>60649301
Having all the technical, by the book standards is boring
>>60650632
Kanye had no part in the mastering.
>>60649218
>>60649301
>>60649176
explain pls :3
>>60650752
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_%28audio%29
>>60650802
here >>60650579
is the clipping the result of limited amplitude because 16bit audio files?
Only nerds complain about clipping, normies dont care
>>60650752
Brickwalled aka Loudness War aka the music is mastered so loud that there is no more dynamics left in them. The song is so limited and compressed that all passages of the music are the same volume. Of course you couldn't tell listening it through your ipod buds or laptop speaker.
>he doesn't enjoy the sound of clipping distortion
Guess you're not a harsh noise fan, huh?
>>60650632
>>60650737
Mastering on MBDTF was the same retard that did the mastering on Californication.
No surprises, there.
>>60649176
>>60649218
>>60649301
What do you expect when you download a 132 kbps version of it from the internet?
At 320 kbps it shouldn't do this shit. Nice b8 tho OP.
>>60650823
>is the clipping the result of limited amplitude because 16bit audio files?
I don't know enough about it to answer your question
The "Loudness War" phenomenon is a direct result of the death of hi-fi in the 90s, when car stereos became a huge thing. Engineers were pretty much forced (by record companies of course) to compress the shit out of everything so it you can hear it/or have the song grab your attention on the radio while in a car.
It's only gotten worse with the proliferation of earbuds, and smartphone/computer speakers.
Most modern music is pretty much unlistenable on a good system. Beyond fatiguing.
>>60650858
>Californication
I want to get into RHCP, I really do but the albums are so compressed that I cannot even sit down and listen to it.
>>60650851
>retarded rhetoric
>>60650859
does that in flac too have u even listened to the album?
>>60650925
Not really a huge RHCP fan but that one always comes to mind because of how fucking dreadful the mastering is on it.
There are some leaked remastered versions out there that are vastly superior to the original release.
>>60650941
Then>>60650823
because the album would literally sound like harsh noise if what you're showing me is true. It sounds fine.
>>60649176
All this does is make me feel better about my own lackluster mixing skills t bh
I don't even notice it unless someone points it out or if it's really really really bad like that one Metallica everyone always memes about.
How's this?
>>60651187
Song?
>>60651140
Really? I noticed Death Magnetic was bad even before anyone mentioning it.
>>60651219
I'm pretty sure that was his exact point
that it was so bad he noticed it
>>60651200
It's my own, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being a complete moron without knowing it.
>>60651269
Don't worry about self-projects, since you don't have a million dollar studio, its excusable. Its those fuckheads who mastered those albums in the premium studios, I really don't know what is going in their head.
>>60651269
desu you could probably compress it a bit more.
>>60651309
>>60651313
Thanks for the feedback.
>>60650579
it means the signal is already clipped. the peak of curve cut off, it is as flat as a lolis chest.
it doesnt matter how powerful your amp is, it cant reproduce lost data.
that is just the current modern technique. It depends on the kind of music, like you wouldn't do that the some jazz band, but pretty much any producer of mainstream pop/rock etc would not be doing their job if they didn't do that.
>>60650859
OP here, I know I'm replying to a troll but just for the record: all the clipping pics are flacs.
>>60651529
thats the most retarded thing ive read all day.
there is no point whatsoever in doing this. it sounds horrible
why is this allowed?
>>60651569
Yes, clipping has nothing to do with lossless files or not.
Also certain types of music are excusable, on top of my head I think of shoegaze, doom/stoner metal and of course harsh noise
>>60649176
>>60649218
>>60649301
Guys. When you put a loud mp3 into audacity and look for clips, you'll find them. It's just because of how mp3s work. If you put the same songs into audacity but in the form of FLAC, you won't find those clips. I'm not saying modern mixes don't include digital distortion, but those clips your finding are not actual digital clipping.
>>60651682
a little clipping every once in a while isn't that bad and barely noticable. but while listening to the kanye album i noticed how horrible it sounded (not music-wise) and just had to look at the waveform. i wish i hadnt. not even californication is this bad
>>60651743
Nevermind didn't see:
>>60651569
That's crazy then
>>60651743
you are retarded and have no idea what you are talking about
>>60649213
The point is that when you blast the recording to ridiculous volumes the quality goes down. It's not some audeeohfile snake oil either.
>>60651601
you hear it all the time and probably don't even notice. I'm not saying it's something I agree with, it is just literally the default now. With the proliferation of cheap listening devices and the entire public in a consensus that they don't care about sound quality this is what people do. Everything gets compressed to be as loud as it can. On shitty speakers and in vehicles over road noise these mixes often will sound better than a more dynamic one would. Also the flip side is that producers have to come up with different ways to keep mixes engaging since the dynamics are gone, doing different shit with timbre and arrangements. Just because a wave form looks maxed out like that on a professional record doesn't mean it's actually clipping (though sometimes shit is).
Look at Death Grips, they work within this contemporary format and still make engaging music. It's not automatically bad.
>>60651775
I'm actually completely right. Pic related. Top is Holland 1945 in flac, bottom is 320 mp3.
>>60651851
>>60650579
wow
>>60651871
that isn't so bad
if your song isn't as loud as everyone else then it's shit. that's the idea i guess.
>>60651896
The point is that if you take any mp3 that is very close to hitting 0db, it will register as clipping when you analyze it in audacity.
That being said, I saw that OP posted saying that his examples are FLAC.
>>60651851
>I'm actually completely right.
no, you are more than wrong
>>60651836
compression doesnt have to result in clipping when done "right".
clipped songs will never sound better when played at the same volume as probably mastered songs.
>Just because a wave form looks maxed out like that on a professional record doesn't mean it's actually clipping
well you can zoom in if you dont believe me, the tips are cut off. its clipping like crazy. its not just "touching" the 0dB mark.
>>60651851
>>60651871
that has nothing to do with mastering whatsoever, get out of this thread
>>60651805
that's not how this works
You don't just crank the gain, it's compressed.The compressor has the gain knob on it and you can bring it all the way up to 0db and if you do it right it won't be clipping. In 2015, it's completely normal and for any kind of mainstream commercial popular music, it's basically required like I said here>>60651836
If this trend ever goes away it will be interesting to look back on the decades when all our shit sounded this compressed, but with everyone using earbuds and listening to music in the background while they use computers, I would be surprised if this ever goes away in a big way.
The irony of all this is now that we record digital it's the first time when a literally unlimited dynamic range is available to us. In analog you can only get so quiet till you are hearing tape hiss. It just happened that it got really easy to make shit loud with digital too and people went nuts.
>>60650851
Good harsh noise don't clip the whole track
>>60651933
I'm absolutely on point and you can't stop me
>>60651967
>that has nothing to do with mastering whatsoever, get out of this thread
no but sorry for assuming your examples were mp3s. I tried it out myself in FLAC and the tracks really are completely hard clipping. That's inexcusable. They literally could have solved that be bringing the volume down by .1 db, but they really felt like they needed that extra .1db of volume.
>>60652030
>I'm absolutely on point and you can't stop me
yes i can.
What's the best way to avoid clipping as much as possible? I'm pretty new to mastering my tracks, how would I monitor this/make sure it doesn't happen (other than just listening, obviously)?
>>60652050
Just look at your levels on your daw, they're usually red if it's clipping
>>60651967
see
>>60651982
Everyone knows that there's clipping on MBDTF. it got written up when it came out for that. You can hear it on the album. Generally speaking looking at the wave form in audacity is a poor way to judge this though for anything. Most albums in this style will all look similar with shit reaching 0, especially transients (like drums hits which it can be normal to have clip a just little bit and not even be audible). You can have an album maxed out where everything reaches zero and the waveform doesn't look like it's visibly clipping, and still have clipping withing the compressed mix. So it's kind of silly to point at wave forms like your thread is. It comes down to the sound.
This is the FLAC version guys
>>60652037
Well I'm just a-waitin here, waitin ta' be stopped
>>60652050
Get good metering plugins. The PAZ analyzer from waves is good. If you're anal retentive like me and want to care about shit that nobody else cares about, you can also get a plugin like the TL Mastermeter so that you can monitor for intersample clipping, which are clips that happen in between individual samples. Fab Filter's Pro-L limiter has good look-ahead and oversampling functions to deal with clipping and intersampled clip events.
>>60652102
It doesn't automatically register clips, you have to go to the analyze window and click "find clipping"
>>60652095
Ah nice, didn't know if I was missing something else
>>60652134
I'll check out those pluigins. I'm pretty perfectionist so I'll try the one you mentioned out cheers
>>60652173
fyi I just remembered the TL mastermeter might be Pro Tools only. But you can just search around for a metering plugin that detects intersample clipping.
>>60649213
its not about volume its about dynamic range u dip
>>60652098
>Generally speaking looking at the wave form in audacity is a poor way to judge this though for anything
the shit sound was the reason i looked at the waveforms in the first place. and if a recording looks this red like in my pics, you can be pretty sure its gonna sound like it too.
>Most albums in this style will all look similar with shit reaching 0,
yeah, like i said, its not just reaching/touching 0, it goes way beyond it
> You can have an album maxed out where everything reaches zero and the waveform doesn't look like it's visibly clipping
true too, you could just normalize some kanye songs by 0.1 db and audacity wouldnt report any clipping using the indicators any more. however the tips would still be cut off and it would still sound the same (just quieter)
> especially transients (like drums hits which it can be normal to have clip a just little bit and not even be audible).
completely right and pretty much inaudible. no harm done
>>60652102
View -> Show Clipping will show all the spots where the waveform touches 0 dB (does not necessarily result in clipping)
>>60652355
>it goes way beyond it
no, it can't because digital
>>60652522
precisely. the more it goes beyond it the more information is lost.
>>60652539
it can not go beyond 0
>>60652539
His point is that it can't go beyond it at all
>>60652560
>>60652572
thats what i mean, just picture it in your head. if you increase the volume so much that you push the waveform past the the 0 db line, all of that information will be lost. the more you "push beyond" the line, the more is lost
>>60652615
it is not lost, it gets distorted
>>60649176
>>60649218
>>60650632
etc.
Would you rather experimental/interesting/hard-ass music sound clean and sterile, like some old audio engineer in an old-school studio would have it? He's a really big fucking fan of Sting, and he wants to make your hip-hop or rock album sound like Mercury Falling. How is that aesthetically?
Depending on the type of music you're making, there's a pretty good argument that pro studios are aesthetically obsolete if you know what you're doing as a producer. Especially loop-based production. The way that it sounds when it's mixed & mastered-- all that matters is whether it sounds fucking badass. Obvious mixing errors like the bass being too muddy won't sound badass even to the most untrained ear.
Who cares whether music is technically correct? Usually uncool old people. The coolest, best music is usually the most technically incorrect, and it's usually made by young people who don't give a fuck about rules or who couldn't afford to make their art in a multi-million dollar facility even if they wanted to. As far as Kanye the old millionaire making distorted hip-hop in multi-million dollar facilities: the simple answer is that he knows it sounds fucking cool because he's perceptive of what young people are listening to/doing.
>>60652696
>Who cares whether music is technically correct?
thats not the point at all.
listen to it. it sounds like shit. if you cant hear that get your ears checked.
>>60649218
>>60649176
Shit happens family, if you wanna make hard af music then you gotta clip, you feel me?
one of many reasons the mars volta is overrated and awful
>>60652696
this should be illegal
>>60652981
>Steve Hoffman
I love his remasters
>>60651313
I'm pretty sure Natural Snow Buildings don't spend any time mixing/mastering their stuff. I think I read that in an interview once.
>>60652647
That is literally what distortion is.
>>60652981
The "warmth" of LPs is due to distortion of low frequencies
>>60653396
something the guy on the left knows btw.
>what is loudness war
>>60652981
It's funny because the audio quality of a song is the most superficial way to judge a piece. The reason you have people who act like the guy on the left is because it's an easy way to buy into being into music. It doesn't require any practice or creativity to hone your skills at production or an instrument, it's just saying shit sounds nice. I would have more respect for the jolly African man on the left any day of the week.
>>60649176
This is not allowed.
>>60653443
this.
>>60653784
So are you saying that everyone that listens to badly mastered music on low-quality headphones is a sensitive artist who has mastered the craft of playing an instrument or producing records?
>>60651653
Fleshgod is the most brickwalled i have ever heard.
The last album is nearly vomitive because of it
>>60652696
>not understanding a single thing posted in this thread
Literally go kill yourself
