>he really believes that music is subjective
>he posts images of laughing women and smug anime girls on a chinese cartoon imageboard
nice one
reminder that "subjective" doesnt mean "made up"
>>60647798
>
ur opinien is shiet m8
>>60647798
>greentext
>le laughing grils pic
What an original thread OP!
>>60647798
Is this you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc
No, the quality of music is subjective. Pretty important distinction there fammo.
good thread, bucko
>>60647893
video makes me want to kill myself
>>60647893
this guy is a cunt
>>60647944
this, music is basically math
you can't listen to a G chord and be like "well in my opinion that's an E chord"
>>60647893
>my first year art students don't understand the difference between my painting smock and a pollock painting
>therefore, all modern art is shit
to be fair, this is the standard of argument that gets you an arts degree.
>>60647893
>Go buy a starter deck of Magic: The Gathering cards and tell me no one cares about quality art anymore, jackass. You don't see it because you don't want to see it.
>>60647893
The comments make me even more than the video
>>60647893
He's right though
>>60647893
>this is beautiful
>>60648059
just because jackson pollock is shit doesnt mean all modern art is shit. there much more than bullshit blank canvases and paintings of soup cans
>>60647893
>this is art
>>60648155
>thinks "art" means "good"
>literally doesn't even have the most rudimentary understanding of what art is
>wants to comment on whether or not it is "good"
>this is you
>you are this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>60648189
Fuck off asshole, bold and brash is a masterpiece.
>>60648177
wew
>>60648207
more like "belongs in the trash"
>>60647798
I kind of think that the intellectual side of art is objective, and the emotional aspect of art is subjective. Some things are objectively intelligent, and some things aren't. But you can't really tell people it doesn't feel the way it feels to them. To a point though, because Ode to Joy isn't something anybody could rationally say is melancholy inb4 devil's advocate.
Maybe it's more like the emotional side of art either feels true or not true, and truth is the part of art that people relate to. I tend to feel like the best stuff is emotionally broad and true, while also being intellectually deep, i.e. you don't have the whole thing quantified and memorized and figured out with the first two listens, but you can constantly find subtle details, or maybe just a new interpretation of it due to its ambiguity.
Then I might even argue that it's morally right to challenge peoples' intelligence and inspire growth, and that music that operates on addictive patterns that merely placate our base instinctual desires and cause stagnation is morally not as good, but that's a different sort of argument.
dubs and philosophy thread?
>>60647893
>this is art
>>60648256
it isn't not art though
>>60648235
sincere happiness is the saddest thing imaginable, ode to joy is very melancholic, just not in a way someone like you could understand.
>>60648279
Well make your case then, I'm listening.
>>60647893
>very deep
>>60648279
>just not in a way someone like you could understand
Please tell us all about your unique insights into ode to joy
>>60648304
it's the visual equivalent of 4'33"
Music criticism is highly relative, though. More so than visual art.
I can't judge Pink Moon and The Dream of Gerontius in the same way, despite their both being considered masterpieces.
>>60648322
>it's the visual equivalent of 4'33"
no it's not. That would imply 4'33" is silent.
>>60648354
no it wouldn't
>>60648325
>more so than visual art
Why do you say that?
>>60648354
no it wouldn't, a piece that would imply that 4'33 would be a room with no light whatsoever
>>60648322
>>60648354
>>60648370
Shut up the both of you, this is not an argument worth having.
>>60648025
Is this the designated /cric/ thread lads?
>>60648400
yes, 4chan is no place for pointless arguments you fucking retarded faggot
>>60648400
this is not a thread worth posting in so why not indulge a bad discussion?
>>60648415
I didn't say this wasn't the place for anything, I said the argument wasn't worth having. Neither is this one, for the record.
>>60648434
then shut the fuck up
>>60648432
There's some potential here.
>>60647944
>>60648235
>>60648276
>>60648279
>>60648300
>>60648378
>a piece that would imply that 4'33 would be a room with no light whatsoever
let's assume sound=light
The listener of 4'33" is supposed to be absorbing the sounds surrounding him.Your room with no light would signify that the listener hears nothing at all.
>>60648313
>>60648300
The fact that so musicians still think of minor tonalities as "the saddest" kinds of music shows you how far music still is from becoming a serious art. Film critics and playwrights have long recognized that the saddest kinds of texts are tragedies which contrast sadness with the very highest points of happiness, not the most famous or best selling emotional signifiers of their kind, let alone of all times. Art critics rank the highly nostalgic and hopeful Edward Hopper as generally sadder than supposedly "sadder" depictions of emotion such as Jacques-Louis David's classic Socratic paintings. Music critics are still blinded by commercial success. Sadness is still the most common depiction of tragedy (not true, by the way), therefore it must be the greatest. Literature critics grow up reading a lot of literature of the past, as do art critics. Music critics are often totally ignorant of the evolution of emotional norms, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that sadness is the prime signifier of an emotional low point.
>>60648467
you're literally arguing against your own point now
>Attempting to apply objective law on expressionism
I bet you listen to classical compositions
>>60648496
>4'33"
surrounding sound changes with every performance of the piece
>blank white canvas
a completely static state with no variation whatsoever
>completely dark room
a completely static state with no variation whatsoever
>>60648467
you see darkness, don't you?
do you really think that darkness is the absence of visual content? you haven't understood the point at all. what a simple, predictable mind you have.
>>60648535
>do you really think that darkness is the absence of visual content?
no, but it is the absence of visual change. There always has to be a constant visual change.
>>60648496
check em
>>60648094
HIGH TEST
I
G
H
T
E
S
T
>>60648566
DAYUM
>>60648486
So you have no argument then, and you're just going to repurpose pasta that's already retarded in the first place?
Beyond that, there is happy music in the minor key. Lot's of Jewish traditionals, for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJH7Y56c7Y
There's more to sad music than key, although there's a correlation with the minor key, I'll give you that. Probably due to the presence of more dissonance in the thirds. But it's also pace, timbre, dynamics, potentially lyricism, etc. that influences the tone of the piece.
Well, this thread got interesting
Art is subjective, unlike the quality of this thread, which is objectively shit.
tbphwy (to be pretty honest with you)
>>60648322
>>60648354
>>60648370
>>60648378
>>60648467
>>60648496
Can we agree that a better representation of 4'33'' in a visual medium would be either a pane of glass or a mirror? Or maybe even a tv screen with a feed of a camera aimed at the people observing the screen?
>>60648625
>in the minor key
Look at you, you can't even break free of understanding that your perception of what is and isn't "minor" is bound to a theoretical understand formed by an outdated epistemological anchoring in classical theory. With this post, and your blurring of what can and cannot be considered minor, you have essentially argued my own argument for me without even realising it.
Sorry kiddo, get back to the books. You've got some catching up to do.
>>60648660
I like the idea of the mirror.
>>60648660
yeah a white canvas would probably be closer to a recording of 4'33"
>>60648660
>>60648670
Clearly the visual equivalent would be reflections in a puddle. Mirrors have to be made by someone, they are a construction.
>>60648694
I could agree with that
>>60648688
You're a whole discussion too late for this
>>60648661
So you're trying to dodge the argument by distracting me with a semantic argument of what the minor key even is? Please define it, or rather redefine it for the sake of your argument, so we can get on with the actual discussion.
>>60648708
>You're a whole discussion too late for this
literally every post you replied to has to do with what I said, go fuck yourself
>>60648694
But isn't the venue part of any performance of 4'33'' given that the acoustics of said venue are part of what forms the sonic palette?
Enjoyment of music is subjective. Intellectual quality isn't
Inb4 pretentious cock
>>60648727
>by distracting me with a semantic argument of what the minor key even is?
No, I just referred to the argument you yourself just made about different understandings of what constitutes minor/major sad/happy music clashing in separate understandings of music theory.
>>60648786
pretentious cock
>>60647893
I'd like to see his paintings.
>>60648748
>literally every post you replied to has to do with what I said, go fuck yourself
yeah and it was proved to be wrong
>>60648871
kill yourself
>>60648822
Literally the worst fucking argument ever conceived by man.
>>60648886
Not him, but an opinion judging determining the quality and difficulty of art is more valuable wen coming from someone who can actually make really good art as opposed to someone who can't.
>>60647893
Except he's 100% right.
>>60649076
Yeah I really don't understand what's bad about this guy's video. He's being pretty reasonable and concise.
>>60648994
You would maybe have a point if we were talking about the Sistine Chapel.
The art the video is referring to is something even experts can't tell if it's made by a toddler or an "artist"
[spoiler]Sorry, I'm drunk and not native Engish speaker. My argument still stands though[/spoiler]
>>60649076
>>60649092
/mu/ babbies are just so pomo and forward thinking that they'll defend a fucking rock as a piece of art. Reminder that this board is mostly middle schoolers, high schoolers, and college undergrads.
>>60649162
What do you expect faggot, working adults don't have the luxury to spend their time here.
>>60649185
Not only do a lot of people have today off, but work ends at 5 for most people.
>>60649162
It genuinely upsets me that this board has so much potential but children ruin it.
>>60649185
No actually. It's because this board has the most juvenile, unrefined taste in music, and apparently art in general, of any music forum I browse. Other forums attract adults because they're not so shitty.
>>60649225
Can you name some? I'd love to find a place where I can share and discuss music with adults.
>>60647893
If you have a problem with this video, there's like an 75% chance you've never taken an art or art appreciation class.
>>60649246
Would prefer not to name them here for obvious reasons. Email me [email protected] and I'll help you out.
>>60649310
Come on man, this is one thread on /mu/ and they won't fit in even if they try. Can I just have the most active one.
>>60649372
It's seriously no trouble to shoot me an email.
>>60649401
Alright fine one sec. But before I do it, are these forums specific to one type of music or mixed? I'm mostly interested in blues rock, hip hop and metal.
>>60649432
Specific as well as mixed.
taste in music is subjective, beauty in music is absolute.
lol what is going on in this thread
>>60649484
You know that's contradictory right?
>>60649554
he probably doesn't, but he'll figure out on his own someday. or maybe not. it's his choice.
>>60648790
Look dude, how are you defining the minor key if not by the traditional mapping of the scale? If you want to talk about it as being something else, define what you mean so we can continue the conversation. For all intents and purposes, the term minor key refers to the western tonal minor key, if you want to give it a more abstract definition, fine, but don't act like it makes you smarter, because it's really just stubborn pretentious semantics.
>>60649585
Lol what? Some child on /mu/ is making pretentious and reductionist arguments in a way that no normal people think? This is unprecedented. Is he seriously trying to act like a minor key isn't a minor key?
>>60649462
Thanks man, I sincerely appreciate it.
>>60647798
ok then, please explain why certain people like black metal while others dont
>>60648322
i think the visual equivalent to 4'33" would just be a mirror
>>60649280
>75%
Why specifically that percentage?
