Man oh man oh man, I could write an essay on this album. The self-realization of the protagonist's identity throughout the album, the progression of his sexual relationships from young innocent to wild then settling into maturity, the way kanye made the album play like a Greek epic while still having insane features (Nicki Minaj's best verse of her career, RZA on So Appalled, Rick Ross on Devil in a New Dress). The timing of this album drop too, after receiving hate for his barrier pushing sound in his previous album, showing everyone who doubted him that he still got some of the best production skills in the game. MBDTF gets a 11/10 in my book, wonderful piece.
Written on my phone soo my comment may be hard to read, o well
>>60474079
THATS REALLY SUPER, SUPERGIRL
>>60474079
literally the second worst Kanye West album
not as deep as you think it is
Yeezus is his best, aesthetically for me, but also with regards to concept and form. Everything you think he does in MBDTF he does in Yeezus, but in a more subtle manner and with much more substance
>>60474161
nice meme my friend!
I've never understood the artistry people see in Kanye's music. Like, it's not bad music. A lot of it is pretty catchy and accessible, but I've never really seen how Kanye is so different to anyone else in the game.
Can anyone explain his "artistic" appeal to me? Coz I've for no clue
>>60474209
The guy has won more than 20 Grammys, and he's probably the single most important person in hip-hop (and has been for 10 years). While his personal life (or should I just say antics?) have gotten him a lot of negative attention, he's still almost universally praised by critics- in particular, his fifth album (My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy). In 2010, the following publications ranked it their #1 Best Album of the Year: The Telegraph, NOW, Billboard Critics' Picks, Paste, Rolling Stone, Vibe, Spin, Entertainment Weekly, Time Magazine, The AV Club, Pitchfork, Slant, Spinner, and Stereogum. It was in the top five for The Telegraph, The Independent, The Chicago Tribune, The Boston Globe, and The New York Post, among others. In 2014 Pitchfork retrospectively called it the best album of the decade, and NME put it at #24 of their Top 500 albums of all time list.
He's incredibly diverse stylistically, and his personal artistic experiments always (without exception) have a massive impact on the trajectory of his genre. He's pretty much always ahead of the curve. Kanye is pretty much the David Bowie of hip-hop, or maybe the Bob Dylan of hip-hop. One might even go so far as to say that he (alone) is "The Beatles" of hip-hop, but that comparison is so overused it's become a cliche.
I'm not saying that you have to like Kanye, and for that matter I'm not going to say that anyone has to like Bowie or Dylan, but I think it's impossible to ignore that he personally has had more impact on his own genre than anyone in the past decade.
SASQUATCH
GODZILLA
>>60474269
Yeah, you basically just said that a lot of people like him a lot and compared him to other acclaimed artists. What has he done that actually advanced/changed hip hop?
>>60474209
For me, what got me into kanye was changing my perspective from trying to find the "deep" in his music to accepting the possibility of being artistic in the shallow, which kanye does pretty well. Particularly on mbdtf, he takes the inherent shallowness of celebrity life, but does so in a very humane way, showing both sides of the coin, the glamour and the insecurity.
Thats at least how it worked for me.
I agree, plus the emotional fragility tied to his ego that this album was about basically heavily influenced acts like The Weeknd and Drake and Kendrick Lamar (GKMC was very much a product of MBDTF in many ways) and as a result most of the hip hop landscape post 2010
without context about kanye's life or personality is this really that good an album
i don't disagree with this thread
lets talk about the horrible things on this album
1. fergies verse on all of the lights
2. jay zs verse on monster
3. rza on so appaled
4. YEEZY TAUGHT ME (x100)
5. oh the intro to the album too, that sucks
otherwise 10/10
Runaway is one of the best songs he's ever done
>>60474870
3. rza on so appaled
5. oh the intro to the album too, that sucks
LEL
>>60474346
>What has he done that actually advanced/changed hip hop?
He singlehandedly killed gangsta rap and the whole ringtone wave present right when he released his debut album, which was arguably the worst era of hip hop. Kanye changed the aesthetics of the genre, from the hoodrat bragadoccio to a more introspective middle class focus with varied arrangements.
>>60474933
he didnt do that though
>>60474933
Didn't The Roots already do that?
>>60474890
literally terrible parts of an otherwise 10/10 album
>>60474269
>critics
>grammys
>>60475170
you have no idea of what the music industry is like do you?
>>60474269
>First paragraph
Trying to put randomly sites opinions to the board to legitimate him. The metacritic strategy. Fallacy.
>Paragraph two
Overrates him to the sky, "hes the greatest of all time", "hes the Beatles, hes the Michael Jordan, hes the Pope".
*******
Stop mate, you're black empower another black artist. This is very suspect.
I expect a paragraph: Who did not agree with this black artist x being the GOAT, the best, the cult whatever is a mad racist.
Stop being this megalomanical delusional. Kanye is not all that. Hes a mimic, a propaganda.
>>60474396
>>60474452
>>60474843
>>60475065
You delusional if you thinks, this Kanye West introduced new things in everything aspect with his albums.
Literally a bunch of rappers made what he made BEFORE him.
Hes strategy is on being edge, have media attention and a fan atracction. It since 2004. He copied this edge thing of Eminem.
1. Outkast revolutionized Pop Rap BEFORE Kanye.
2. Pharrell Williams/N*E*R*D did some innovations BEFORE Kanye
>>60475258
lol how was eminem on the edge as a public character?
It's fucking great, a tour-de-force. My only criticism is some of the repetition and over-use of 'nigga'. But, yeah, it's immense, taking hip-hop production to a whole new level. It sounds like every cent of the $3m spent on it.
Best album of the decade.
>>60474870
>he doesn't like the chris rock skit at the end of blame game
haha oh shit nigger you can't make this up
>>60475335
I noticed that Spotify has recently put up the clean version and I'm really enjoying it.
>>60475297
I'm really not a fan of him, hes last album are not that good, but Em is a originator.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminem#Personal_life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminem#Alter_egos
>>60475335
Not that great.
Some specific event influenced the critics score which influenced your opinion tho:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4xWU8o2cvA
http://www.mtv.com/news/1621798/experts-weigh-in-on-kanye-wests-post-vma-career-recovery/
I love that Yeezy released an album that basically shut up all his critics after the Swift shit. I don't think he'll ever release another great album, because he doesn't have the drive to do it anymore, but it's kind of amazing he created it after being written off.
>>60475438
I think this album is about pain of being over critized. i think this whole album is about the VMA incident.
This album is about confront 'racism' too, because the hate against the black man who offended the American sweetheart Taylor Swift in the front of million supposed to be hard.
>>60474872
Agreed. It gets looked over
>>60475425
Nah, that's bullshit. It's a fantastic album, the production is fucking immense and the entire album is full of single-worthy songs. It completely deserved its glowing reviews.
Not going to criticise MBDTF from a thematic standpoint, but musically it's garbage. The emotional centrepiece of the album is literally the same simplistic four-chord progression for NINE FUCKING MINUTES, with less in the way of development than the average GY!BE composition. That's pretty much the whole album in a microcosm.
>>60475613
>It must be complex to be good
How's high school going?
There is nothing wrong with running a 4 chord progression IF IT WORKS.
i hope all of u die
>>60475357
its terrible
>>60475739
is it not an accurate enough kek scenario for you?
>>60475700
It doesn't work. Nice strawman argument though.
>>60474079
Best hip hop album since Madvillainy.
>>60474452
didn't even get any responses on this. i'm having second thoughts on this album.
>>60475370
Thanks to Dre for a multiplicity of reasons, one of which was Dre actually originating that edge.
>>60474452
I don't disagree with this
>>60474452
Yes. I always thought Kanye was mainly a few catchy pop rap singles before this album, this shit was next level.
desu, I'm kind of surprised the album wasn't more commercially successful than it was. Only sold a million or so in the US, his previous albums were multiplats. POWER and Monster were as strong as any of his past singles.
oh this thread again
>>60476450
Thanks for bumping the thread!
>>60475544
No.
Not all that.
Re-read: >>60475425
>>60475831
Not its not. You're overrating it.
>>60475952
Dre was nothing to do with Em, besides the production.
>>60474209
none bro, its just op's album. its a masterpiece. otherwise he sucks
>>60477108
Best hip hop albums from each decade:
80s: It Takes A Nation Of Millions
90s: Midnight Marauders
00s: Madvillainy
10s: MBDTF
>>60477197
>>60477197
your opinion
>>60477197
80s:It takes a Nation of Millions
90s: Aquemeni
00s: Below The Heavens
10s: Undun
>>60474870
>CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER?
>>60475170
>>60475216
>>60475258
>>60475370
>>60475425
>>60475479
>>60477076
>>60477108
>>60477245
>m-muh opinion really matters guys! I'm a professional listener! This album sux!
Fucking namefags.
>>60478379
stop mumbling retard
>>60475335
"Other artists were influential before Kanye therefore Kanye can't be influential as well."
Are you fucking retarded
SENT THIS BITCH A PICTURE OF MY DICK
>>60474079
I love it when memesters try to turn this shitty album into some sort of literary triumph. They always call Kanye the "protagonist" as if that somehow legitimizes this album as intellectual high art. When you actually listen to the music it's standard top 40 pop with a retarded ape talking about himself for an hour.
>>60477197
I'd say this, but with Aquemini for the 90s would be the standard Best list in the future some time, younger generations would look at TPAB or something as like the Notorious BIG or Genius albums are now considered present day, not the defining releases they were thought of, but brilliant nonetheless. Kanye defines 2010's Hip-Hop so well, every rapper's trying to be like a variation of him in the media.
Isn't there a memerap general thread? Keep the Kanye dick sucking in that thread or at least go back to KTT.
>>60478903
KTT is full of idiots pretending to be black thinking everyone says "bruh" 80% of the time
>>60478929
sounds like /mu/ except we say "nigga" and "t.bh f.am"
>>60478859
kek
>b-but he must've paid off all the reviewers! There's no way he could've made a good album!
>>60474161
Yeezus was fucking horrible
>>60474452
yes, thats exactly the argument. Upon listening to the album without knowing who he was, you would recognize an artist trying to express himself in an original manner, and then say who the hell made this?
>>60478859
you must really have no concept of poetry or literature I feel sorry for you. Or maybe you just have an empathy problem, your unconcious racism may prevent you from relating to Kanye's struggles as a black man. We should all walk a mile on his shoes, listen to what he has to say Kanye is the voice of a generation more relevant than ever. maybe that's why he is so misunderstood. In their time Christ and Socrates, were derided as liars, madmen and corrupters of youth. Who knows what the future will make of Kanye
>>60479213
this
>>60479019
appeal to popularity
>>60479213
>if you don't think Kanye West is genius you are a racist!!!
>comparing Kanye to Christ
>dumb frogposter
Kanye fans everyone.
>>60478859
>it's standard top 40 pop
Show me another top 40 artist with the production skills Kanye possesses.
>>60479395
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcDy8HEg1QY
>>60479468
You do know MBDTF has like 10 producers and 1000 writers, right? And I reject the premise that Kanye has much production skillz so it's pointless for me to show you the thousands of other top 40 artists that do exactly the same thing as him.
>>60479576
muh rockism muh authentishitty tibs le bedora upvoat
>>60479576
>architect is bad because he doesn't operate the pneumatic drill himself
>>60479576
>You do know MBDTF has like 10 producers and 1000 writers, right?
And none of that would be shit if it wasn't for Kanye assembling it together.
>so it's pointless for me to show you the thousands of other top 40 artists that do exactly the same thing as him.
Or you just can't, because there aren't many that do the same thing as him.
>>60479603
>muh muh muh muh muh
literally retarded
>>60479604
terrible analogy, more like architect is bad because he has a team of 100s of architects that help him design a shitty condo that looks exactly like every other condo
>>60479606
>Or you just can't, because there aren't many that do the same thing as him.
Well I'm not sure what he even does, and I doubt you'll be able to tell me what he does other than tell me he has "skill" or throw some meaningless buzzwords.
>>60479652
So many words, and yet not a single valid point
>>60479652
>Well I'm not sure what he even does
Yet you say that his production is on the level of top 40 pop artists?
>>60477197
80s: pauls boutique
90s: liquid swords
00s: madvillainy
10s: mbdtf
>>60479670
>>60479685
How the fuck am I supposed to point out the qualities he possesses that I can't see? Perhaps you could fucking tell me what makes him such a brilliant producer. I'm waiting, but I won't get a response. I've done this song and dance with Kanyefags before. No one can actually articulate what he does differently from anyone else.
>>60479712
>No one can actually articulate what he does differently from anyone else.
And you can't articulate why he sounds the same as top 40 artists. The burden of proof is on you, faggot.
>>60479745
Oh wow, wouldn't ya know it, another Kanyefag that can't explain what makes him special. Instead wants me to prove a negative about the qualities he doesn't possess. Fucking retards.
>>60479777
Guess neither of us is capable of producing a valid assessment of his work. Let's see what the professionals have to say: >>60479019
>>60474870
i actually editted out the "peaked the scene" monologue that nicki has entirely. to me, that part has no place in the album. besides that its a solid 8/10 album to me. very enjoyable but not as close to perfection as everyone seema to think it is. production wise, its phenomenal. lyrically it isnt as impressive. the fact that there are always songs i skip over when listening to the entire album means its missing something. to me at least.
>>60474079
Holy shit. Are Kanye fags serious or is liking Kanye just some kind of meme? I listened to this album the other day and it's just shitty pop rap. There's absolutely nothing unique about it. 2/10 worse than dog shit.
>>60479777
> Instead wants me to prove a negative
Yeah, that's what the burden of proof is, you mong. It's up to you to prove the negative.
>about the qualities he doesn't possess
I believe he possesses them.
>>60479797
le appeal to popularity
le implying that a review score somehow proves that artist is innovative
>>60479818
You sound like a vegan reviewing a steakhouse
>>60479777
see>>60479213
Kanye was enormously relevant musically, but his relevance transcends music extending into fields as varied as fashion, politics, and language. more than a simple popstar, Kanye is a world-historical hero in the Hegelian sense, he personifies the 21st century with all its qualities and contradictions
>>60479777
>he wants someone to provide evidence for something he's claiming
Not how it works, retard.
>>60474269
>I'm not going to say that anyone has to like Bowie
Everyone should like Bowie though.
>>60479858
>It's up to you to prove the negative.
Holy shit you're fucking retarded. You can't prove a negative.
>>60479860
>Kanye is praised by musician community including "legends" like Paul McCartney, Lou Reed, and RZA
>Anonymous 4chan poster says, "but he still sucks"
>Kanye receives widespread critical acclaim
>"He still sucks"
>Kanye wins a ton of Grammys
>"He still sucks"
>Kanye trolls white America
>"He still sucks"
>>60479944
>A negative claim is a colloquialism for an affirmed claim that asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something. There are many proofs that substantiate negative claims in mathematics, science, and economics including Arrow's impossibility theorem.
Sure thing, sport.
>>60479924
>kanyefags get pedantic about burden of proof because they literally can't think of a single thing that makes their meme artist unique
>>60479870
Underrated post. Laughed quite audibly.
>>60479991
>math
>science
>economics
>anyway related to memerap
>>60480002
>calling me a Kanyefag when I've heard a total of 2 albums from the guy
Okay. Keep thinking it's not up to you to prove why he isn't unique, you retarded fuck.
>>60479957
>doesn't understand appeal to popularity
>still commits fallacy
>unironically uses the term troll
>still can't explain what makes Kanye special
ITT reddit kanyedrones
>inb4 reddit doesn't like kanye
Nice meme reddit.
>>60480027
Mate, I hope you're honestly fucking with me. Just read the Wikipedia page on the burden of proof and you'll see precisely why you should feel embarrassed for yourself.
>>60480037
>I-I-I swear I'm not a Kanyefag....
Sure thing kiddo
>>60480068
Mate, if there's something on the wikipedia page that was relevant you should have quoted it instead of making yourself look like a retard.
But again, Kanyefags STILL can't articulate what makes him special. They're STILL trying to shift the burden of proof on sceptics.
>>60480054
He's special because he makes good albums consistently.
>>60480062
>le reddit bogeyman
*tips pizza man*
>>60480106
Here you go little babby. Are you reading for your spoon feeding?
>When two parties are in a discussion and one affirms a claim that the other disputes, the one who affirms has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim
From what I can tell, it was the anon that claimed he's not special first in this thread.
>Kanyefags STILL can't articulate what makes him special.
And once again, you are unable to articulate the opposite. You are also completely ignoring the posts that do articulate why he is unique such as >>60474269
>>60480131
He's not special because he doesn't make good albums consistently. :^)
>>60480187
>>60480174
>From what I can tell, it was the anon that claimed he's not special first in this thread.
But the thread was started by a Kanyefan boy. You even quoted "proof" of this in the second part of your post. Two tries and you're still wrong. Do you want to embarrass yourself a third time?
By the way, all that post you quoted does is list off his awards and accomplishments and compares him arbitrarily to other acclaimed musicians. So again, I'll ask: what separates him from any other top 40 musician aside from the fact that he has a lot of undeserved awards. Reminder that vagueness like "he's unique!" mean nothing.
>>60480268
>But the thread was started by a Kanyefan boy
Nope. It's a pasta that's commonly posted by people who dislike Kanye as a means of slandering his fanbase.
Also, read the second paragraph of >>60474269
>>60480268
>what separates him from any other top 40 musician
His production. If that's not a good enough answer for you, I don't know what to tell you. It's not like you've provided any actual criticism anyway. Everything you've said about his music has been vapid.
>>60480229
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_in_Black
And something like this has received just as much critical acclaim and sold millions more. If we're going to play the popularity game then AC/DC > Kanye West
>>60480316
It's more than just production. He's able to bring out the best in every artist he features.
He raised the benchmark when the rest of the hip hop community was slacking off
>>60480187
He's special because he doesn't make good albums consistently.
>>60480362
I would agree with you. I wasn't saying that's the sole thing.
>>60480358
Kanye's the top in his respective genre. AC/DC are not.
>>60480313
I already did. It's full of vaguities like "he's incredibly diverse!" and then it compares him to a bunch of acclaimed artists.
>>60480390
>Kanye's the top in his respective genre.
According to whom and what metric?
>>60480442
Might have something to do with the fact that the hip hop genre essentially follows the trends he sets. All AC/DC did was inspire a generation of buttrockers.
>>60480416
You must be mentally deficient to think that statement is vague in any form.
>>60480482
Hmmm, doesn't sound like you have any personal bias at all. Good to know, thanks!
>>60480493
You may be a mouth breathing mongoloid if you think that statement does anything to describe how or in what way he is at all diverse.
>>60480597
>if you think that statement does anything to describe how or in what way he is at all diverse.
When did I say it did, Mr. Strawman? That doesn't make it vague in the slightest. It's incredibly straight-forward.
>>60480597
>doesn't sound like you have any personal bias at all
Actually, I grew up hating hip hop. I played (and still do) a lot of instruments and was in several "rock" bands in middle/high-school. Wasn't until I gave the genre a fair chance in college that I developed an appreciation for Kanye. I can still dig through my old FB posts to where I called him a "gayfish" back in the day.
>>60475258
are you 14?
>>60480642
>It's incredibly straight-forward.
Then explain it to me. Explain to me how it's so straight-forward and obvious. Why can't Kanyefags do this?
Kanye West's very much the David Bowie or Beatles of hip hop - someone who very adeptly shapes popular fashion by plucking the best ideas of a range of styles and consolidating them. Some listeners like the mosaic approach of these artists, while others (like myself) find the approach to be more a matter of curation than creativity. That's not to say those two values are mutually exclusive, but at least I personally think that investing whole-heartedly in one direction and exploring its contours instead of trend-hopping and prosletyzing one's own greatness make for longer-lasting artworks. I always find Kanye's albums fresh, exciting, and good listening for about one or two spins, and then they begin to feel very superficial. Yeezus, for example, can't hold a candle to Arca's material in my mind because Yeezus seeks to constrain the sound design to pop structures and occasional bursts of free-form cacophony. To relate this back to the Beatles, it's the difference between finding Revolution 9 good and taking actual tape music seriously or finding their psychedelic rock music invigorating but not being able to stomach long-form Grateful Dead jams. With David Bowie, it's appreciating krautrock and ambient music instead of Low. I think Metacritic's critical sources lean heavily on popularization because of the range they try to cover, and these publications always opt for breadth over depth, thus seeing, say, Death Grips not getting covered until a major label debut effort.
tl;dr: Some people are innovators and sonic pioneers, others are incredibly proficient curators and great popularizers. Each is a form of greatness, but subjective values of what makes for greatness will result in lots of talking past each other and flaming. I totally understand what makes Kanye West THE THING to people, just as I understand what makes the Beatles and David Bowie THE THING to people. None of them are IT for me, though. Mainstream criticism seems to favor popularization, as well.
>>60477197
>80' s
Paid in Full
>90's
A Book of Human Language
>2000's
cLOUDDEAD
>2010's
Pinata
>>60480229
Why are all his albums named metascore?
>>60481280
its his aesthetic
>>60474079
>the way kanye made the album play like a Greek epic
Man I love mbdtf just as much as the next guy but idk about it playing like a greek epic.
>>60474079
This album isn't bad, but I honestly don't see how it's better than his other albums. I'm a Kanye fan too, but I really don't see how people consider this album a masterpeice.
>>60474971
the roots weren't nearly as influential; they were more like "lol we're a hip hop baaaaaaand, aren't we cool"? They're not really suburban either.. not gangsta by any means but not suburban
>>60474933
This, he opened up more possibilities in terms of what rappers could talk about and how they could act.
>>60474079
>>60474269
>>60474396
>>60474843
>>60474933
>>60475335
>>60477197
>All this Kanye dick ridding
Jesus, it was a good album. IT WAS GOOD. Not the greatest fucking hip-hop album of all time! Stop overrating this! You're about as worse as Kendrick dick riders that's defends TPAB
>>60474870
>LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHV I DON'T GET ENOUGH OF IT
>second repeat of the chorus on dark fantasy
>AOTL not being the superior https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFA-9meXPmY version + kid cudi verse and on the hook + yeezys verse after big sean's
>See Me Now being on the full version not just a bonus track
(how could you not have beyonce saying nigga on an album), but i see why he took it off though to give it more legitimacy, it'd also be pretty dumb to have drake's verse on AOTL advertising take care and carter IV. could've been some more b-sides desu.
>>60481707
It is the greatest hip hop album of all though desu.
The best moment on this album is Nicki Minaj's part on "Monster".
That's not a good sign.
