Free jazz is possibly the best thing I've ever heard. How is it so unpopular that i haven't heard of it until recently.
>>60319541
idk bro, I thought you knew it all about music, but now I'm disppoint
protip: pic related is the best free jazz release of 2015
2deep. even a lot of people that are into "experimental" music (read: 4/4 rock songs with weird sounds) seem to shy away from it in my experience.
>mfw OP is 16 and just listened to Machine Gun and Spiritual Unity for the first time
A new avant teen is born every minute
>>60319668
nothing wrong with that
>>60319704
Besides the fact that they don't understand the context for the movement and 80% of the music is going over their head because they don't know where it's coming from.
>>60319767
And what makes you assume OP doesn't know where its coming from?
>>60319767
>tfw probably 90% of the free jazz fans on this board are underage rockists
>>60319807
the fact that he hadn't heard of it until very recently
>>60319807
If he did I'm pretty sure he would have at least heard of free jazz before "recently"
>>60319767
you gotta start somewhere
historicism is overrated anyway... i think ayler's music is timeless
>>60319807
The fact that he's only heard of it recently
>>60319854
>historicism is overrated anyway
I'm just relating to you what most jazz fans will. This stuff makes a hell of a lot more sense and you can get a lot more out of it when you've heard a decent amount of other jazz movements.
Like there was a huge progression towards that sort of ethos of composing and playing that you're missing.
Doesn't mean you won't still enjoy some of the stuff but lots of it will be lost on you.
I'm a bigger fan of fusion imo even if it can be very cheesy sometimes
>>60319854
When I was 15 a friend of mine who was a couple years older started getting very into jazz but I didn't like most of it that he played for me. But then he played some Sun Ran, and Brotzmann and Zorn and I liked it a lot but really only because it reminded me of the rock and metal that I was used to listening too. Basically I rated free jazz by how loud and chaotic it was. Eventually I started getting into bebop and then back into free jazz again and now I'm pretty embarrassed by some of the stuff I used to think and say about free jazz.
>>60319578
??????
how the fuck is that free jazz
>>60319855
>>60319851
>>60319848
Would you honestly rather someone stay completely unaware of a genre than discover it a little later in life then you did?
>>60319978
Call me uncultured but i have no idea who that is
I'm pretty clueless over all about jazz but am incredibly interested in it, would it be a dumb idea to just jump into listening to free jazz musicians?
>>60319939
Like what you're saying, I wouldn't want to just jump in and not understand or appreciate anything I'm listening to.
I guess kind of looking on where to start with jazz movements and stuff, I don't want to be spoon fed recommended lists or anything but would appreciate some guidance if that makes sense.
>>60319981
wait what? how are those the only two options?
I'd just rather that people talk about it with some sense of perspective rather than just "FREE JAZZ IS SO COOL!! LOOK HOW WEIRD THIS MUSIC IS THAT I LIKE. I NEED EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT IM LISTENING TO FREE JAZZ AND I ACTUALLY LIKE IT!!"
>>60320035
>would it be a dumb idea to just jump into listening to free jazz musicians?
Yes. I'd recommend you at least check out the basic stuff from this chart before going into free jazz. I don't want to sound pretentious but it might be a bit much for you at first
>>60319978
Half the tracks are blatant imitations of ascension era Coltrane how the fuck is it not free jazz? Have you even listened to it?
>>60319939
>>60319973
true true... i find it sort of hard to imagine somebody getting into free jazz right off the bat. i did the same thing myself, started with
hard bop then progressively got more free.
>>60320035
jump into it. if you enjoy it listen to more. if you don't, then don't. when you're ready, you'll seek it out.
i see "a love supreme" recommended for most people looking to get into jazz and i think that's a great idea.
>>60320035
Look into the weekly jazz blindfold test threads here on /mu/. They would be a great place to start.
>>60320063
OP here. What indicated i felt like that? I've listened to basic jazz before. Only recently have i started listening to this. I was hoping to get suggestions and stuff.
Ignore everyone in this thread. Listen to Escalator Over the Hill.
>>60320084
Did that chart really neglect to put take five in the cool jazz category
I mean really
>>60320126
My post is an exaggeration obviously and the OP post is at the lesser end of this spectrum but your question about why free jazz isn't more popular is kind of stupid. Would you honestly expect Albert Ayler to be extremely popular to the average person? Would you even like the music as much if he was?
>>60320035
>I don't want to be spoon fed recommended lists or anything
JTG's chart is a great taster for different movements to see what you're into >>60320084
It's obviously hard for it to be comprehensive and many artists only represented by one album here have several essentials. There's also a bunch of important people missing like Monk (on this extended version) but it's the best chart available.
As general advice, I'd also recommend that when you're listening to a piece to follow the soloist. There's often interesting stuff going on with the accompaniment and how it's interacting with the soloist but one thing I wouldn't recommend doing is just letting the music wash over you.
Oh and if you hear a solo you really like, look up the artist. See what else they've done. That's the best way of finding great jazz artists is through sidemen on artists you already know.
>>60320103
this
>>60320084
>people still think JTG is a good source of knowledge
c'mon guys. there are so many other resources out there that are way better. you might have to read a list rather than look at a chart, but at least you'll get a better education.
>>60320214
I listen to A LOT of music and i've still only recently heard it. I didnt mean "Why isnt this top 40?"
And Of course I would! I don't know why you take me for a hipster. I don't care whats "cool" or "in", its whatever sounds good to me.
>>60320255
Forgot to post this too.
Oh and this. >>60320103
/blindfold/ are some of the best threads on /mu/ atm and this week is a fairly nice week to get involved because the theme is popular songs covered by jazz musicians.
Gutted at the absence of Buddy Rich's cover of Norwegian Wood though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE55BAoP8Vo
>>60320327
>>60320255
I forgot that chart was made by him. Oh well, it's a good start
>>60320327
JTG's charts are pretty decent though. It's flawed and there's stuff missing but as a beginners tool it's pretty decent and does a good job of giving a sample and description of different styles.
You're best off using multiple resources as with all types of music but that chart is by no means a bad start.
Also:
>not unhealthily worshiping JTG
It's like you don't even think Sipiagin is the best trumpeter in the world atm.
Wow, this board is full of snobbish retards.
>>60319668
I have around 30 free jazz albums in my collection, and Machine Gun and Spiritual Unity are among my favorites. Just because they're popular doesn't mean they bad. Also,
>Complaining about avant-teens while being an avant-teen
>>60319767
So you suggest we should start listening to nature field recordings and birdsongs, then prehistorical music, and go forward from there?
>>60320652
>So you suggest we should start listening to nature field recordings and birdsongs, then prehistorical music, and go forward from there?
No. I recommend you listen to jazz.
>>60319668
its funny because it's true
>>60320331
You don't get his point.
>>60320652
> Just because they're popular doesn't mean they bad.
Nobody said that. You just fell for a low quality bait.
>So you suggest we should start listening to nature field recordings and birdsongs, then prehistorical music, and go forward from there?
No. The anons that you call snobbish retards are just trying to say that you can understand free jazz better if you go through the other styles and periods of jazz. It's the same with classical. You don't start with 20th century/contemporary classical and then go backwards. And jazz is the kind of the style that can be explored in a way better chronologically. Which is not the point with classical or literature. You don't "start with the monks" or "start with the Greeks". And you don't even need to start with swing/big band. You can start with bebop or hard bop and go from there to free jazz and understand how jazz came to that point and how free improvisation got around.
>>60320087
it isn't even remotely free jazz, it's akin to elevator music
Check this OP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdNrZcToV8
>>60319767
I'm not an enthusiast of free jazz, but I'd like to learn. What context are you referring to and where can I read about it?
Modal jazz > free jazz.
>>60321188
also, you could check the rym chart of free jazz for finding stuff you like, that is how i discovered noah howard
http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&include_child_genres=1&genres=free+jazz&include_child_genres_chk=1&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=
>>60321217
bump
>>60321283
What?
>>60321283
You can find really good stuff in there. Don't be a contrarian m8
>>60321217
>What context are you referring to
The years of evolution of jazz and the styles/influences that went into free jazz's creation.
Jumping into free jazz with no knowledge about the history of the genre is like taking a person from the early 19th century and showing them Loveless or something. They're not going to have any context for what the fuck is going on so a lot of it is gonna go over their head.
>>60321283
what do you exactly dislike of rym? it's a great site for looking into "artsy" genres like avant-jazz, classical or experimental rock
>>60321367
As for where you can read about it, I find it's better to listen to music than read about it.
Wikipedia is pretty neat though.
>>60319578
what the fuck please be trolling
On the topic of free jazz, Kaoru Abe is amazing, specially on Winter 1972, he sounds like he's fighting for his soul on that record
It's pretty good winter music, maybe because of his tone
>>60321400
No him, but what are your favourites of 2015?
Free jazz is rockist pleb bullshit for idiots that can't follow more straight ahead jazz.
Hurr its so extreem xD
>>60321377
It's far too focused on image. The majority of users care more about having a "good curve" and how many listens an album has than actually critiquing music. Maybe if it were required to post a 500 word minimum explanation of your ratings the site would be worth something.
>>60321436
lol, nice meme argument, adding the word "pleb" and "xD" will make your post irrefutable
btw, i'm no even OP and i enjoy stuff from Bill Evans to Adderley to Archie Shepp to Dave Brubeck, and even if you only enjoy free jazz there is nothing wrong with that.
>>60321436
See, this guy is getting there.
He's taken someone's advice and gone and is getting into jazz proper.
Then eventually, he'll play and Eric Dolphy record, here all of the bop nuance to his playing and the tight composition and really get it, as per:
>>60319939
>>60319973
>>60321436
sounds to me like you can't grasp free jazz, butt face
>>60321497
>if you only enjoy free jazz there is nothing wrong with that
Everything is wrong with that. Rockism is killing jazz
>>60321496
who fucking cares about the users? It's a good way to explore genres you never even cared about before
>>60319578
fuck off
>>60321531
Eric Dolphy's music isn't free at al, never was.
>>60321584
The users are the ones who make all the lists.
>>60321496
i don't care that much about the reviews, though i use 3.30+ rated albums to know it's worth checking ( a few exceptions are some backpacker rap/lil b albums,etc), but it's great for finding lists and discussion
Would it help having a strong foundation on music theory before getting jazz?
ITT: a bunch of undergraduate music majors specializing in jazz playing lecture everyone about how they need to understand the musical tradition of free jazz while never mentioning the socio-political conditions that incubated it and also helped to erase it from the historical record
what are the big differences between free jazz and avant-garde jazz?
>>60321601
That is factually incorrect. I'd suggest either listening to Dolphy's playing or looking up the definition of free jazz.
Whichever you feel you haven't done.
He literally played on the album that gave it it's name.
jazz threads are the most embarrassing threads on /mu/. this includes kpop threads.
>>60321645
not the custom charts. You can nitpick as much as you want to find interesting stuff.
>>60321669
no that would be fucking retarded. anyone who tells you otherwise is someone who started playing jazz after the genre by and large died. they have mayo ass complexions and have tried to turn the music into an academic discipline instead of the multi-faceted animal it is. there is a place for theory and cerebral analysis in jazz, and there is a place for feeling. there should be no impetus as a listener to "get" what's going on. even fucking John fucking Coltrane said so. white people who play jazz just want to be elitsts with lots of arbitrary cultural capital accrued from playing Kind of Blue to themselves in their rooms on trumpet over and over and over and over
>>60321672
free jazz breaks down the restrictions, avant garde jazz breaks down the rules and guidelines
>>60321672
the avant-jazz tag includes a lot of "experimental jazz", like, all free is avant, but not all avant it's free, since there are other subgenres like third stream, post-bop, spiritual jazz, etc.
>>60321672
free jazz is the final movement away from jazz structure
avant-garde jazz is any jazz that tries to incorporate elements of contemporary art music
it's more an affective difference than anything, but compare, say, Coleman's Free Jazz to Coleman's Skies of America (inb4 >RYM)
>>60321715
Academic analysis is just as much a part of the "multi-faceted animal" as is the feeling and emotional part of the music. Your idea that the music should only be appreciated and discussed in terms of feeling and never cerebrally analyzed is just as idiotic as anybody who claims the opposite.
Go learn to play an instrument.
>>60321672
I hate people who use the term "avant garde jazz" because usually they just mean post-bop.
One of the few jazz posts here on /mu/
