/jazz/
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
>best overall track
Flamenco Sketches
>runner up
So What
>best overall solo
Coltrane on Flamenco Sketches
>runner up
>Miles on So What
>best composition/arrangement
Flamenco Sketches
>runner up
All Blues
>worst track
Freddie Freeloader
discuss/argue/make your own for other favorite jazz albums
i could agree with this, but Freddie Freeloader isn't bad
>>54791558
I'm not saying it's bad
Just that it's the weakest track on the album
Also I meant to put Blue in Green as the runner up best composition but All Blues is close as well.
>Best
Pharaoh's Dance
>Runner Up
Miles Runs the Voodoo Down
>Best Solo
Miles on the runner up
>Best Composition
Pharaoh's Dance
>Runner Up
Bitches Brew
>Worst
Feio
>best
Goodbye Porkpie Hat
>runner up
Fables of Faubus
>best solo
Goodbye Porkpie Hat
>best composition
Self Portrait in Three Colors
>worst
Pussy Cat Dues
>>54791647
>Best
Charge 'Em Blues
>Runner up
Rick Kick Shaw
>Best composition
You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To
>Weakest
Azure
Too hard to classify which parts are solos exactly (either everything is or none of it is), so no such category here for me at least.
>best
Giant Steps
>runner up
Syeeda's Song Flute
>best solo
Syeeda's Song Flute- Coltrane
>best composition
Naima
>worst
Mr. PC
>>54791895
just FYI- you know Taylor didn't compose You'd Be So Nice to Come Home To... Right?
(didn't mean to reply earlier)
>Best
La Sorrela
>Runner up
Fortunato
>Best composition
La Sorrela
>Best solo
Why Not
>Weakest
Homecoming
>>54791927
No, but I don't think that makes a difference.
>>54791970
I thought Homecoming was actually one of the better tracks on the album. Maybe runner up for me.
>>54792059
Honestly it's a touch choice, I just know I like La Sorrela the best. I guess as the last cut it just starts to become a bit overbearing, but I can definitely see someone liking it over the others.
>>54792115
It definitely stood out as being different from the rest of the tracks
>best
Dolphin Dance
>runner up
Eye of the Hurricane
>best solo
Hubbard on Dolphin Dance
>best composition
Dolphin Dance
>worst
Survival of the fittest
>best
Nardis
>runner up
Elsa
>best solo
Beautiful Love
>best composition
Nardis
>best arrangement
Haunted Heart
>worst
The Boy Next Door
>best overall track
N/A
>runner up
N/A
>best overall solo
Eric Dolphy's solo is amazing
>best contribution
Don Cherry, his contributions in the improvs of others is always top notch
>worst soloist
Freddie Hubbard, although he gets into it towards the end. I just think he was the least 'free' I guess
>best
Dance Cadaverous
>runner up
Witch Hunt
>best solo
Shorter on Speak No Evil
>best composition
Infant Eyes
>worst
Fee Fi Fo Fum
>tfw when I enjoy listening to jazz but sound like an idiot when I try to explain what I like or dislike about it
who is the modern equivalent of eric dolphy?
>>54792627
this
I tried to explain that Ornette album to a friend, and he was just looking at me like "that just sounds really self indulgent and pretentious"
I get that it might be both of those things, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's still very very good listening
>>54792719
any time you try to explain art to somebody who doesn't "get it" you're probably going to come off sounding pretentious
And you're never going to convince some people
>>54792627
>tfw you finally "get" free jazz after not understanding it at all when I first tried to get into jazz
also /mu/ tends to recommend terrible jazz albums to noobs
>>54792970
oh yeah
Though to be fair, Kind of Blue is a good starting point to Cool/Modal Jazz
I remember listening to The Shape of Jazz to Come as a jazz virgin, and having a considerable headache
>>54792970
Jazz noob here, need suggestions on where to start and what albums are the best.
>>54793011
You could argue for days about what jazz albums are the "best" and there are hundreds of valid choices.
Some good ones for beginners are
Kind of Blue
Blue Train
Somethin' Else
Study in Brown
The Sidewinder
Mingus Ah Um
Headhunters
>>54793011
Kind of Blue by Miles Davis is a good start to Modal Jazz, and is generally great Jazz
Get the Charlie Parker Omnibus to have an intro to the Bebop movement, at over 3 hours it should keep you busy.
John Coltrane's album My Favourite Things is a good album showcasing his INCREDIBLE chops
Really don't bother with Avant-garde until you get your head around bebop, and Free Jazz is best left until you're happy with how more 'normal' jazz works, don't want to scare you away
>best
Four Winds
>runner up
Conference of the birds
>best composition
Four Winds
>best solo
All solos of a conference of the birds
>worst
See Saw
>>54793068
>>54793074
Already started with Davis, loved Kind of Blue. Also, should I start following a chronological order or it is better to handpick a few sub-genres of jazz that are better for a new listener, and from that, make myw ay through the most difficult ones?
Also, is there a specific type of jazz that has that nocturnal vibe you would find in a noire movie?
>>54793092
Gorgeous, thanks anon.
>>54791447
Cannonball's solo on Flamenco Sketches was superior, and I say that as a Coltrane man
>>54793182
>>54793153
If you find one genre or album that you really enjoy then just start exploring similar albums. If you liked Kind of Blue then check out Somethin Else, Milestones, and Blue Train...
also that film noir style of jazz probably falls under "cool jazz"
>>54793092
>I recommend smoking some marijuana while enjoying your jazz, it's not necessary to enjoy the music of course, but it will almost certainly increase your focus on the music and enhance your appreciation of it
Very true
>>54793153
>should I start following a chronological order or it is better to handpick a few sub-genres of jazz that are better for a new listener, and from that, make myw ay through the most difficult ones?
For starters I would definitely avoid chronological approach when it comes to jazz, it's way too daunting. Just try to look for what ticks you and then work towards each direction from there.
>Also, is there a specific type of jazz that has that nocturnal vibe you would find in a noire movie?
Not sure what you _exactly_ mean, but I'd say just jazz from the 40s in general, except bebop perhaps. I don't think you could pinpoint it to a specific genre or style (though someone more knowledgeable could correct me).
>>54793153
Hard Bop has that feel to it, it's cool jazz without any happiness really.
I reckon sub-genres may be the best bet, if you went chronologically with Coltrane (for example) you'd find yourself knee deep in Free Jazz pretty soon.
Saying that, I jumped from minimal knowledge of bebop and modal into Ornette Coleman and loved it, so here's one of his albums just in case you like it
https://mega.co.nz/#!g1ICADZT!iHmIQrzNd_D-SOPbdodvDPNCkcl2g6_z2x0lwsZeLtQ
This is Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come
>>54793203
I disagree. I think Coltrane uses the tension the best of any of them, especially during that harmonic minor section and then resolves it beautifully. It's an especially simple and melodic moment for Coltrane who's not usually known for his simplicity and strong sense of melody.
Thanks again, one more question, what should I know to appreciate jazz songs more, the technical aspects of it and how a good jazz listeners decides whether a song is good or not? I'm completely ignorant about solos etc..
>>54791647
>not liking the space-y Feio
>>54793255
Well hard bop is largely influenced by blues and was pretty exclusively black music, and only came about at mid 50s quite a bit after noir films had pretty much vanished. Cool jazz would indeed be a better choice for such a style. It's "whiter" jazz, which is something I've always associated with the noir films.
Shape Of Jazz To Come is a good candidate though.
>>54793207
>Leucocyte
fuck yeah, this album is great
>>54793323
It's all about interplay bro. Listen to how what the players are doing relates to the other players. It's all about how they react to and influence the direction of the improvisation.
You don't need to know a lot of theory or play an instrument to hear this stuff, but it might just take some experience with close listening to start catching it. Those who play jazz or have a strong theory/audiation background usually find it easier to catch those small details just because they have experience listening for them.
>>54791647
>Feio
>Worst
>>54793422
this very much, it's one reason why i love ornette's free jazz so much, the interplay between all the players is astounding
>>54793092
This is probably the best thing /mu/ has ever produced, this should be the picture for all jazz generals imo, same way the shoegaze general has that flowchart.
>best
Next Stop Tsukiji
>runner up
Tempest in a Teacup
>best solo
-too hard- maybe Binney on Tempest
>best composition
Tempest
>runner up best composition
Fermata Scandola
>worst
Calming
>best overall track
Amen
>runner up
Dearly Beloved
>best overall solo
Coltrane on Amen
>runner up
McCoy on Dearly Beloved
>best composition/arrangement
Amen
>runner up
Dearly Beloved
>worst track
Ascent
>>54793612
it could be better actually
I was thinking about re-doing it
>>54793694
I don't know about the content itself tbh because I'm new to jazz but the layout and ideas behind it are perfect for introducing such a massive and varied genre.
>best
Recorda Me
>runner up
Jirinkisha
>best solo
Henderson or Tyner on Recorda Me
>best composition
Recorda Me
>worst
La Mesha
>>54793694
Do it, I'm just getting started with jazz and that would help a lot of newbs.
>>54791447
8/10
>>54791647
6/10
>>54791809
8/10
>>54791895
7/10
>>54791908
7/10
>>54791970
6/10
>>54792258
5/10
>>54792373
6/10
>>54792536
8/10
>>54793141
6/10
>>54793680
7/10
>>54793841
8/10
Is it weird that I'm not that into anything before Charlie Parker so far? I guess this is what's called the "bop" era? I mean, I definitely don't think Satchmo's stuff sucks, but I don't find it compelling so far.
/mu/'s biggest mistake is reccing people albums that have more than five minutes of soloing. We should be starting people off with compilation style albums of some fantastic players where they only solo for a minute or two. Kind of Blue is an exception to the rule because the soloing is so easy to follow while still being great.
is /jazz/ making a comeback on /mu/?
>>54791447
So what's you guys' opinion on Moondog?
The few bits i've just discovered sound very much like a rather minimalistic effort, consisting of minimal amounts of noodling and crappy solos i hear in other jazz that i never liked.
>>54794012
not to mention the great contrast between the soloists on KoB
>>54793916
why didn't you rate Ornette?
>>54794018
I was thinking this, /jazz/ seems to be more popular, but that's partly because of the fun interactivity of >best >worst stuff
Funny i could care less about byrd and bop. It's not to say i can't listen to it, but it there's better jazz out there. Shit i always forget how great this album is.
>>54793981
not necessarily... It's not really compelling in the same way that most bop and bop-influenced jazz is.
Pre-bop music focuses more on melody. It becomes compelling when you start to hear the influence that these players had on bop players and how the bebop guys used some elements of swing but updated certain aspects of it.
Is pic related actually considered at the same tier as BADBADNOTGOOD and fly lo? Every time I see it mentioned on /mu/ it's always in that kind of context as incredibly low bar entry level jazz for hipsters.
>>54794076
the more basic and simplistic the "discussion" the more replies the thread will get
this is a simple truth of 4chan
I'm a saxophone player with some questions about jazz- If I'm to solo over a C7 chord, for example, would I use all of the notes from a C major scale except flat the B? Or would I try to hang around the chord tones as much as possible? Similarly, what notes would I play on a Cm7 chord?
>>54794101
Great album. One of Shorter's best imo
>>54791637
but it has the best piano solo on the record
>>54792702
nobody.
>>54794135
It's an interesting experiment definitely... I'd put it above BBNG... Maybe around the level of Fire Orchestra in that it's jazz influenced music but it seems to be most often celebrated by rock fans.
>>54794148
in sevenths and shit try to emphasise what makes the chord different, so work with the minor seventh, or the minor tones.
It also makes your solos more logical and fitting
>>54794115
Huh, that's weird, since in most music I'm usually a sucker for a good melody. I guess I'm just not perceiving them on first listen.
>>54793981
If you're going backwards, swing and dixieland will sound dated compared to the bebop revolution.
>>54794148
F Major
F Harmonic Minor if you want to play the flat 9 & flat 13
F Melodic Minor for the flat 13
D Diminished if you want to play all of the altered notes (b9, #9, b5, #5/b13)
You could also use a whole tone scale starting on F, G, A B, C#, D# but whole tone scales in my opinion are difficult to use in a tasteful manner
>>54794135
Coin Coin is a legitimate jazz album and a really good one. It just happened to be released by Constellation, so it received a lot of exposure in the "hipster" circles. BBNG isn't even close to touching it.
>>54794148
all the notes are valid. It's just about how you use them.
In a bebop context they'd probably play the the scale you mention (C mixolydian) but with the B natural as well. They could also add in blue notes of Eb, F#, or Ab. Or they'd maybe just play a blues idea using the C blues scale or pentatonic scale. The main goal there is to emphasize the important chord tones (3rd and 7th) by playing them on string beats.
In most post-bop contexts you'd probably want to add some extensions or alterations to the 5th, 9th, 11th, or 13th, effectively making all twelve notes a valid part of the chord (the only exception being the F natural, which still won't sound bad if used effectively as a passing tone.) this starts opening you up to other available scales (altered scale, Lydian dominant, whole tone... Etc.)
Your best bet is to start with basic chord tones and work on arpeggios then with the basic mixolydian scale and work on simple melodies and variations using that scale. Check out the written melody over that chord for melodic/rhythmic ideas. Then gradually add on extensions and alterations and their implied scales.
>>54794259
Check out Lester Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTF4zh5xMbE
>>54793916
Thanks anon, I was eagerly waiting for your highly regarded opinion on all these critically acclaimed jazz albums.
>>54794187
even if that were true it's got the least imaginative and interesting piano comping, the least interesting melody and form (it's a pretty traditional blues) and one of Miles' weaker solos.
>>54794468
Pretty good, thanks.
Does "noise jazz" has a proper name or is it just a branch of free?
this is a good thread
>>54794673
just file that under 'shit'
>>54794673
wtf is noise jazz?
>>54794673
What? Something like The Blue Humans? Refer to >>54794720
Is it bad that i didn't like The Shape of Jazz to Come?
>>54794798
free jazz minus everything that makes free jazz good
>>54794836
not necessarily
What about it?
>>54794836
no. every body doesn't like every thing.
does this make you a pleb? no.
do you actually play jazz professionally? no? THAT makes you a pleb.
why don't you use your trip anymore jtg?
Am I a pleb if The Shape of Jazz to Come is honestly one of my favorite recordings? They just sing out of their horns in a way that's absolutely beautiful.
>>54792258
You really think Survival of the Fittest is the worst? And no mention of Maiden Voyage at all?
>>54794148
depends what the piano player does. i feel like you rarely hear vanilla dom7 in jam sessions, you get all the substitutions and altered pitches. the more open the chord sounds, the more notes you can get away with, though traditionalist say you have to play the 7 and the 3.
>>54794867
I just feel that boundaries aren't pushed like in Coltrane's Meditations
>>54794955
I really do. If you feel differently you should post your opinion of the tracks.
>>54794798
something like the noiser parts of The Lounge Lizards s/t
>>54794970
bear in mind those albums were 7 years apart, TSoJtC was out in the same year as Kind of Blue, it was pushing boundaries for it's time.
You can't compare the 'trane's avant stuff with Ornettes, it's like complaining how Black Sabbath aren't heavy when you could have Napalm Death
>>54794970
>it's different than another album that was recorded 6 years later
not exactly a valid criticism. you don't have to love the album but it really did push some boundaries for the time. maybe not to the extent that most of /mu/ has been led to believe but it was an important step in the evolution of the music that led up to Coltrane's later recordings.
>>54794970
Those two albums go in totally different directions.
>>54794878
why bother ?
I wonder if some people threatened violence when Coltrane started playing free jazz.
>>54795150
What?
All anyone said was that you made a comparison which wasn't really valid, no-one's being mean.
[spoiler]just listen to it louder[/spoiler]
>>54791647
>Worst
>Feio
>>54795176
well.. trane himself allegedly punched cecil taylor in the face at a recording session. couldn't get into cecil's concept i guess
>>54795176
I wonder if anybody's ever smoked their own dried semen
>>54795030
>>best
>Maiden Voyage
>>runner up
>Dolphin Dance
>>best solo
>Coleman on Survival (or mbby Hubbard on Dolphin Dance)
>>best composition
>Survival of the Fittest
>>worst
>Little One
>>54795222
Well, it's a relevant question since that's what people did to Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor.
>>54795233
Formatting is fucked, but you get the idea.
Been loving this recently, anybody rec something similar?
Your /Album of the Month/
>>54795358
forgot greentext... it is my opinion submit yours.
So /jazz/
is modern jazz all just boring nostalgia-core or is it good and worth listening to?
Hi guys, just listening to Blue Train right now, it isn't bad, but it sounds a bit too fast and excited for my tastes, does that mean I won't like anything from Coltrane? Suggestions on more "calm" and slow albums for beginners?
http://youtu.be/wFiJGR3SL6U
Jazz pleb here looking to dive a little deeper into the genre, anybody know what subgenre of jazz this is or any more like it?
>>54795494
why don't you listen to some yourself and decide?
although if you think all of it can be lumped into one of those categories and are ready to believe the opinion of a random stranger about it maybe you shouldn't even bother
>>54795342
Eddie Gale - Eddie Gale's Ghetto Music
Noah Howard - The Black Ark
Chris McGregor's Brotherhood Of Breath - S/T
Woody Shaw - Blackstone Legacy
Henry Franlin - The Skipper
Leon Thomas - Blues And The Soulful Truth (maybe...)
>>54795510
coltrane and hartman
>>54795494
There's a lot that's good and a lot that's mediocre
Some is great and some is not very good.
Listen to it and decide for yourself dumb dumb
>>54795675
That is a spectacular album. Def. recommended.
