![4234502-discord,_-first_changes_of_ponyville-_s02e02[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/k6JNsp6.png "4234502-discord,_-first_changes_of_ponyville-_s02e02[1].png")
Why were Discord and Chrysalis both so overly confident?
That was seemingly their only downfall.
Discord somehow didn't realise the band had not only got back together and got their colours back, but also weren't acting against their element anymore, so he got rekt.
Chrysalis seemed to have thought that gaining power and strength though love is a ridiculous sentiment, when that's pretty much the basis of her entire race.
Actually what spell did Shining and Cadence even cast to repel the Changelings? The protection spell was supposedly of no use
>>27499187
discord is not a villain.
he is a pathetic prankster
>>27499187
Because they're cartoon villains.
>>27499187
Easiest to write. Back in S1 and S2 most writers didn't care as much as they do now.
>>27499379
You think they noticed everyone being nitpicky?
>>27499514
That, and they realized the universe and setting was actually going somewhere, that the show has the potential to be more than a simple mindless commercial.
>>27499187
I think they both just got caught in the moment of their victories.
In Discord's case, he has basically god powers so the thought of a mere unicorn overcoming his spell probably would have never entered his mind.
As for Chrysalis, she was definitely still riding the high she got from defeating Celestia, whom Chrysalis was genuinely shocked that she beat.
I believe the spell that repelled her was Shining's basic shield spell amplified by Cadance. The only reason the shield failed to begin with was because Chrysalis had drained him prior and weakened the spell to allow her horde in.
>>27499802
>mere unicorn overcoming his spell probably would have never entered his mind.
Twilight's is literally the element of Magic and Discord knew that, she's far from a mere Unicorn. Besides, the regain of their colour and the fact they were acting as a unit once again as opposed to in discord were surefire signs surely.
>I believe the spell that repelled her was Shining's basic shield spell amplified by Cadance
That's odd, because Chrysalis said seconds earlier what good would the protection spell do when her Changelings already roamed free. According to her that protection spell was useless.
Also, riding the high makes sense, but surely saying it's ridiculous that Cadence's love would give Shining strength is a massive oversight when she herself gains power through love?
>>27499224
Discord will be back into a villain and be defeated in the S6 finale.
>>27500534
Discord's problem stems from the fact that at that point he literally didn't understand friendship and harmony. It was completely anathema to him. He thought that once he broke them apart they would be powerless forever. When Celestia and Luna used the Elements the first time it was a total shock to him because he simply doesn't understand the nature of that power. Later, he celebrated after getting Twilight to go grey because he honestly believed that the power of the Elements was broken forever, or at least until new bearers came along. When they showed up with them, he just saw a bunch of pathetic losers with tinfoil jewelry trying a last sad attempt to stand up to the hurricane. He laughed. He got rekt. It was only after he had underestimated the power of friendship twice and lost to it that Celestia thought he might be able to reform since he now had to respect the power of friendship and acknowledge its strength.
>>27499187
>Chrysalis seemed to have thought that gaining power and strength though love is a ridiculous sentiment
Yeah, because Changelings feed on love and ponies don't. She assumes Cadance can't reverse what she did to Shining Armor because she's ignorant of how unicorn/alicorn magic works. Same reason her plan in Return of Queen Chrysalis backfires: lack of understanding of how pony magic works.
>>27500534
I clearly wasn't the same protection spell, otherwise there would have been a purple shield around Canterlot after they cast it.
It was probably some kind of repulsion spell that pushes back but doesn't leave a permanent barrier.
>>27500593
Is understand friendship and harmony necessary in noticing these Ponies aren't grey anymore?
I don't think you can really assume he thought he broke them forever, especially after they came back in a new light against him.
>>27500636
Good point desu, she knew enough to get her Changelings to guard the Elements of Harmony though, and their location somehow.
>>27500674
That ambiguity doesn't sit well with me tbqhwyf
>>27500678
I'm not saying it couldn't have been written better, but yes Discord's big mistake was in thinking that the Elements themselves were what he needed to stop. He thought that the jewels were what was responsible for his downfall. He didn't see the ponies as a threat after he 'broke' their connection to the Elements. He didn't think it could be recovered. Even later when he was being 'reformed' he manipulated Fluttershy into not using the Element itself. He didn't understand that the friendship itself was his undoing. He was reformed in the end without the mega rainbow blast being necessary.
tl;dr He didn't realize the ponies themselves were a threat, he only had eyes for the gems.
>>27500678
Discord's colorblind or rather does not perceive the same colors as mortals. He has a bigger spectral range than normies and sees colors only bees and art students can perceive. There, problem solved.
>>27500869
I get your point desu
The Jewels were really the threat to him though so I don't think his line of thinking is wrong there. Without them he's arguably untouchable, magic drainers withstanding.
>>27501038
oh well why didn't you just say so anon
>>27500703
Didn't they just have to follow Twilight and co. right after Celestia says "go get the Elements to defeat the Queen" out loud?
>>27501076
They were there in hordes before Twilight and co. arrived
It's not like Celestia mentioned where they were
>>27501088
Yeah but the M6 were stalled outside the building for quite some time. The changelings could see that they were trying to get into the building so they decided to ambush them in there.
>>27501110
Fair point.
I concede.
>>27499187
Because the show is about friendship being magic and the villains are ignorant of friendship's nature, leading to their downfall
NMM thought the elements were purely physical and not manifestations of friendship, so she gets rekt
Ditto with Discord
Ditto with Chrysalis except with love instead of friendship, for her love was nothing more than food instead of something to cherish and that was her downfall
Tirek thought pony magic ended where he drained it and was ignorant of the magical power of friendship, and that was his downfall
It's kind of a running theme and not exactly complex writing
>>27501228
Exception being Sombra. Guy actually knew that friendship/love was deadly to him and made great efforts to impede the heroes and never underestimated them or at least didn't get a chance to.
>>27501228
Don't think NMM and Discord are the same, it was the elements that got Discord in the end, it's not like he went and destroyed them. He just reckoned they wouldn't harm him
>>27500556
wew lad
>>27499224
Bit mean
>>27500869
>He was reformed in the end without the mega rainbow blast being necessary.
I doubt the EoH would reform him, they seem to have a mind of their own. For Discord it's just stone
>>27504046
Nah, I meant that even after he neutralized what he thought was the actual threat (the artifacts) he was still defeated by the power of friendship.
>>27504359
Eh it wasn't really a defeat in the same sense but fair enough
>>27500869
>He didn't realize the ponies themselves were a threat
They're not really, not to him anyway
>>27505094
Yeah not a direct threat. It's what they represented. The power of hope. How ponies working together are more than the sum of their individuals. How his tyranny and despotism was doomed to failure since he couldn't even conceive of how the virtues were coming together to oppose him and would continue to do so as long as ponies draw breath. The artifacts themselves are cheap costume jewelry without the virtues of harmony existing in the hearts of ponies that want to wield them. The just focus and amplify it to bring about an eventuality that they would have won eventually in any case. Discord showed that you could temporarily stop the connection and NMM showed that you could even shatter the elements, but the M6 prove to both that the elements really exist inside of ponies and that power can be called upon in times of need to hold back the dark. Discord couldn't understand that the Elements come from 'inside' ponies. He literally can't stop them or destroy them without killing off all of ponykind, and he can't do that since the Elements will always appear to oppose him.
>>27500534
It's simply shit writing.
Seasons 4+ tries to cover up that boring generic by the numbers and by the plotholes type of writing by being even more cliche, over the top, idiotic. But hey at least it fills it up with something. Compared to Chrysalis and Discord just standing there like idiots and yelling "shoot me".
I hope whoever created season 2 gets a dog turd on his front door every morning and falls in a hole every day on his work.
>>27505246
I always thought it was weird that Chrysalis dropped the charade and revealed herself as the changeling queen when she could have played dumb or what have you since Twilight had already pissed everyone off. She could have revealed one of her minions and had it join Real Cadance's side and then blasted 'em both. It's doubly weird when you see how surprised she is that she jobbed Celestia. She genuinely didn't think she was gonna win that, but revealed herself and made herself vulnerable in front of everypony. Also, Luna's absence from the wedding is super funny and also telling since there was no way Chrysi could win against both believably.
>>27505246
Oh god and I almost forgot how even more idiotic the writing gets after season 2.
The S3 Fluttershy Discord episode instead of staying there like a silent idiot, he instead yells and resolves the plot himself like a self-defrating idiot.
So while in S2 was the mute idealess part, S3+ were the idiotic over the top seasons which take the shark and jump over it themselves.
Things like Celestia asking Twilight to take the crystal empire like a test. The overly stupid and lengthy "I wasn't prepared for this" musical, but the fucking stained glass window for Spike was the last drop. Ans the stained windows themselves since season 2.
The Nightmare Moon confrontation in season 4.
The stupid black cines in the same episode caused by Discord rather than the Everfree.
The awkward "Lol Twilight you're a princess now, let us take a shit on your insecurity and pretend you have superiority issues despite the opposite"
Everything about this blatantly ironic bad "writing" and 5 year old mental gymnastics logic of an autist, makes me want to grab whoever took over the show after season 1 ended and whip his ass, slap his face and cut his balls till he yells "I'm sorry I'll never write anything again in my life this bad, cringy and stupid".
I bet it was either one of the executives or one of the directors. Cause I sure as fuck didn't feel like there were 10 different writers working on this show, at max 2. I just felt the same repeated autism ad nausem for every ruined episode slot.
Self-defeating, self-deflating, self shark jumper*
>>27505170
>that power can be called upon in times of need to hold back the dark
Not just out of the blue though, the EoH do need to be present so while the spirits of the EoH are in the Ponies themselves, it's the jewels that really channel that magic so they do need them.
After the Main 6 had to give up the elements, he really was free to take over Equestria again if he wanted to. That is, until Rainbow Power which we haven't seen since, but that seems more like they're now channeling the power from within
>>27505405
Yeah, any further speculation after that would be purely headcanon on my part, so I wont blast my autism at you any more, but I think we've pretty much hashed out what was actually there in the show.
>>27505405
Given how we've never seen the mane six use it except in luna's dream, even when it'd be REALLY useful (like, say, when locked up in a cultist's closest), I'm pretty sure rainbow power was a one time thing that's gone for good.
>>27501260
Exactly.
I don't get why people are so fucking autistic with their hatred for the guy all because he wasn't laughing with a pinkie against the corner of his lips while petting a cat.
The episodes were meh as fuck but Sombra himself did everything right he was just btfo by Twilight finally, momentarily, abandoning her autistic need to do everything an authority figure tells her to.
>>27505466
I wouldn't count it out yet. The EoH were basically discovered by Celestia and Luna AFAICT and whatever magic they can do has been figured out and researched by them and now Twilight. I think there's still a lot of mystery surrounding them and how they work. I expect to see more SSJ4 ponies in the movie though. I mean, still now word on why three Princess' cutie marks are on the Tree ffs.
>>27505455
>so I wont blast my autism
Eh it's /mlp/, there's no use holding back. I actually like this discussion anyway, it was just your point about the Main 6 representing the elements meaning they'd therefore always have the power I didn't really get. They are in need of the EoH, so Discord's not really wrong in thinking getting rid of those gives him a free pass.
>>27505466
That'd be odd, considering I sort of thought it would take the EoH's place now, given how it came from the Tree of Harmony.
I'm not sure they even could have channeled Rainbow Power in Our Town. They sort of lost who they were and I don't think it'd even do any good. If say they had the EoH in there, it wouldn't just blast the door down and free them.
They only work in certain situations, against Sombra they weren't even considered and they couldn't be used against the vines invading Equestria either.
>>27505520
The dislike for Sombra was mostly because all you really heard him say was YES CRYSTALS and not much more than that. He was more of a shadow-y presence than a villain, but honestly I watched the S3 premiere again recently and I thought it was pretty damn good.
>>27499187
Discord being over-confident was because he succeded in breaking up the group by antagonizing the group in the first place and pushing them to the breaking point. Honestly, he barely had to do anything and he was able to cause havoc for the group. However, when he notices the flashing and such he probably realized he screwed up...again.
In defense of Chrysalis, what I understood from her statement was that Cadance's love for Shining would not actually give him strength to cast the spell because all Cadance did was amplify Shining's magic without putting so much strain on him. Chrysalis has the ability to gain power through love (and seeing as Shining's love overpowered Celestia it even surprised her) and she thought that a pony can't gain power through love itself whereas a changeling can.
>>27505520
I think a lot of people simply misunderstood his archtype. Some people actually believe a good villain needs to be mutli-faceted with lots of dialogue or even a tragic origin story. There's an autistic villain chart that gets posted from time to time which ranks villains based on that criteria.
It's all complete bullshit of course as whether or not a character, heroic or villainous, is memorable is all in the execution.
Sombra was meant to be the looming presence that once unleashed becomes an unstoppable force of nature. The epitome of this archtype would probably be Sauron from LotR.
That being said, the execution left some things to be desired. In order to pull of that character type successfully, a writer must really get across the heroes' sense of dread and utter despair of facing such an adversary. I don't really blame the show for that shortcoming though since there's only so much you can do in a kids' show. I appreciated the attempt nonetheless.
>>27505556
Okay, to clarify a bit: I'm saying that the harmony strike from the gems is just a concentration of energies that already exist in other ponies and is able to be called out by those who greatly exemplify the elements. Incoming Headcanon: We don't know how Celestia found the Elements or why. All we know is that she built her castle right on top of 'em whether she knew it or not. We do know that you don't need one pony per element. Celestia and Luna controlled three apiece, and Celestia wielded all six at one point. All you need is to exemplify the virtues even if only for a moment. It could have been that Discord's arrival in Equestria and subsequent takeover awakened the EoH and made them seek out their bearers by calling them to the Tree. The tree can probably call the elements back or reconstruct them when it isn't under dire circumstances like having its magic drained for a thousand years by chaos magic vines. So with these thoughts, my conclusion is that if Twi and gang failed permanently, died, were banished, or went insane the Tree would normally attempt to find new bearers and grant them the power to defeat Chaos. The magic of the artifacts is just the physical manifestation of the virtues found in greater or lesser portions throughout all of pony kind. Just like if Discord's seeds had worked and killed the Tree and broken the Elements the virtues in ponies would have made the Tree grow anew and give off their fruits to ponies once again. <----All headcanon again. And I realize that most of this comes from filling in the gaps from bad writing, but the show as a whole makes me want to come up with (semi)plausible ideas to caulk the holes in the plot.
>>27500534
Discord is crazy, maybe he was thinking something along the lines of
"Hmm I should try and make some evil twins of the elements, no that would be too boring.
"Oh look the ponies I was thinking about, maybe they will have some good advice
"Aghhhhhbhlgh
"Well I guess I'm stuck in stone again, and this position is really uncomfortable
"Next time I should make a duplicate of canterlot with hookers and booze
"You know I've never had booze, though now that I think of it…
Etc. and etc.
>>27505683
just banter then ye
>>27500556
And it'll cost Twilight her wings right
>>27505642
Yeah, I understand you far better now, don't really fully agree but I get it.
>>27500534
Discord is Q.
Think of the many times during their little exchanges did Picard fucking rekt Q with simple human logic and tenacity. And when Q is rendered mortal and utterly helpless, he asks what he can do to prove he is genuine and needs help, Worf simply says "Die." Q is so fucking rectum ragnaroked he has to try to belittle Word's intelligence as a comeback.
Discord is so powerful he has actually no idea what he's doing.
>>27505557
They were broken, but the point was more they were reformed now and he didn't notice any of the signs
>>27507472
Arrogance.
It really is that simple.
>>27505280
I don't think playing dumb would really have worked. Maybe for a bit, but it wouldn't take much to determine who the real and who the fake Cadence was. Heck, just ask a question or two or make them watch paint dry. Her gig was up at that point.
Having one of her minions join Cadence wouldn't really work, they were practically brainwashed and didn't seem to be thinking straight so she'd probably suspect something. Even then, it's a needlessly complex plan when Chrysalis set her minions to guard the exit to the caves and thought she had things under the control.
If there's a point she shouldn't have revealed herself, it's to Twilight. Twilight had just been reprimanded, and she may have even stopped her snooping as a result of it. If that's the way things went, she'd arguably never be exposed and be free to take over Equestria.
Even then, it surely makes sense from her perspective to simply imprison those who are interfering, because the wedding was literally the next day and it removes the chance of detection.
Still though, it might have been a smart decision to play along and be nicer to Twilight so everything goes smoothly, but maybe her inner villain was pissed off
