>can rotate the whole planet and move the Moon around
>can't do shit with snow clouds
>>26937418
It's called the Worf Effect.
A character who is said to be strong is shown failing to demonstrate that the enemy or problem is very powerful.
The Worf Effect comes into play when the character is shown failing so much more than they succeed that the viewer begins to question if they were ever strong at all.
>>26937418
>thinking they rotate the planet
>not thinking it's medieval geocentrism
>not realizing that the moon, stars, and sun are just projections on a sphere surroung the planet
What are ya, some kinda pleb?
>>26937760
>>26937794
>>26937794
>comics
>>26937418
>planet
huh?
>>26937822
You can't move an actual sun, dude. It's actually impossible.
The only way Celestia can do what she does is if she's moving the entire planet to look like she's moving the sun.
Or
>>26937760
>>26937838
>You can't move an actual sun, dude.
M A G I C
>>26937838
>You can't move an actual sun, dude. It's actually impossible.
........the sun is currently in motion though..... everything in space is ......
>>26937863
Yeah, no. You literally cannot do that. That's impossible on every single level. You would need God-tier cheat codes to do that shit.
Not just "nature spirits/deities with super magic" or god-tier, actual monotheistic God (capital G) powers. To assume that they can move an actual star on a daily basis is to assume that they can break every single principle of physics.
That's fine, if you want to assume that. Just realize that you're saying that Celestia can do literally anything.
>>26937884
There's a big difference between "something being in motion already" and "changing the motion of something".
>>26937918
You forgot the part where it's magic in a high fantasy realm.
The rules of reality don't matter the moment magic says otherwise.
Just because something hasn't been properly explained does not mean it must therefor be something else.
>>26937961
>That's fine, if you want to assume that. Just realize that you're saying that Celestia can do literally anything.
>>26937418
If they had the power to stop the storms the Crystal Empire would never have needed the Crystal Heart as they would have stopped that phenomenon at the onset of the empire. Celestia and Luna are strong but it never implies they are capable of solving every single issue in Equestria through sheer force. The only reason the can move the Sun and the Moon is because they are physical representations of those things.
>>26937418
Aside from supposedly raising the sun and seemingly always full moon, got anything on the first one? Or are you one of those Dark Matter Butterfly faggots?
>>26937972
You don't have the evidence to prove that anymore than I can refute it.
It's a non-argument.
How do you know there isn't a system in place allowing a small amount of energy to manipulate the celestial bodies?
What if a god or creator effectively put them on rails, allowing them to be "pushed" by lesser creatures?
thanks OP, new reaction image.
>>26937979
>Physical representations
>fanon
>More likely they were exceptional at the raising spells.
>ITT: thread full of headcanon faggots.
>>26937979
>The only reason the can move the Sun and the Moon is because they are physical representations of those things.
These bitches were not born as alicorns, they learned how to move shit.
>>26937838
i hope you realize what would happen if twilight rotated the planet the way itd have to be rotated in s4 for it to make sense.
or what would happen if the planet suddenly stopped rotating, for that matter.
>>26938054
>not born
>implying that's what was implied.
>we fanon thread now.
>>26938041
It's still their one real area of expertise that allows them to do that, not sheer god powers you dumb nigger other than that they are just generally more powerful magic wise than the other races, that doesn't mean they can stop a storm that historically has required an ancient powerful relic that requires energy from the population itself to hold the storms at bay.
>>26937418
>not their special talent
I mean, it's a lame excuse, but...My head cannon is that the moon and sun are actually MUCH smaller than our sun and moon, this why they have to be controlled via magic to orbit the planet. This also explains why a handful of unicorns could do the same thing.
>>26938088
No fucking shit faggot. OP probably left to suck more cocks.
>>26937946
But something must have put it in motion for it to be in motion. What principles of physics say that stars can't move, and how? Proof or fuck off.
>>26938103
No, I'm here watching the discussion. Why are you angry?
>>26938114
It's called it's a goddamn storybook land, your real world physics are shit here.
>>26937961
>>26937979
>>26937918
>>26937946
>>26938010
>>26938018
>>26938041
>>26938054
>>26938058
>>26938088
>>26938091
>>26938103
>>26938114
>>26938129
Let's not forget that >>26937760 is explicitly what Faust was shooting for since Season 1 Episode 1, and is the only explanation that doesn't need over-powered shit, which explains their inability to help a lot of the time, or a break in physics.
I mean, shit. These things are called "Celestial spheres" for fucks sake.
>>26938153
how are they keeping them rejuvenated for a thousand years if theyre just projections? or growing shit?
>how are they keeping them rejuvenated for a thousand years
lolwut
>growing shit
It'd still produce solar light, it just wouldn't come from an actual sun.
This is ancient theology/astronomy, it obviously isn't going to make 100% sense, but it does provide the best explanation for the show and is obviously what they were going for.
>>26938190
>lolwut
journal of the two sisters. it also wouldnt explain why it took 10 unicorns to do it if its so simple.
You know what? Starlight Glimmer was completely right with that commie village.
Cutie Marks force ponies to be good just at one thing and fail at anything else. Celestia and Luna are not good at ruling Equestria, their special talents are moving Sun and Moon.
How many times Equestria suffered from magical catastrophes and invasions of different species? How many times Celestia and Luna failed? It's just a good luck and cartoon need for happy ending that everything didn't colapse yet.
What they need is a government of experts, where ponies with adequate cutie marks are assigned to respective areas, plus a charismatic, smart leader for diplomacy and morale of ponies- Prince Blueblood would be great here. Celestia and Luna are nothing more than experts of doing two things, they are very important, but not smart and strong enough to run everything.
>>26938153
Also pic related, which shows that the night sky is an actual thing onto itself, specifically independent of the daytime, rather than the sky without the sun's light (like irl).
>>26938216
1. They aren't just projections, like a movie. They could easily still be magically powerful, they just aren't actual celestial bodies.
2. They could just be heavy (or the magic equivalent of "heavy"), and it takes ten ponies pushing it to move it. Celestia and Luna just have the magical strength of at least 10 unicorns.
3. What other explanation is there? That a speck of dirt is moving a sphere a million times larger than the rock that speck is on, or that there is some unforeseen entities, which we have no canonical reason to believe exist, making it easier for that speck to do that?
And "how does energy come from the magic planet-sphere", or "why does it take x people to move it" is what you're getting stuck up on?
>>26938277
forgot pic related
>>26937760
>moon is a projection
>what is literally the first episode
>what is NMM being sealed in the moon
>>26937418
as others pointed out, the sun and moon are not the same as ours. For once, the most easy to spot difference to our real world physics: The moon can cast darkness!!
As seen >>26938286 here, the moon is somehow stopping the light from the sun.
Not only that, their sizes seem identical. Of course it's difficult to tell from a distance, but the most likely explanation that, whatever they are, they are the same size. Also due to previous shown scenes in the show we can roughly guess how strong their magic is, and thus know they are 100% not as big as our real sun/moon
my personal headcanon theory is that the world they live on is actually artificial, or at best was an empty rock somewhere in space. Someone terraformed the planet and created the sun/moon to make living on that planet possible. Then they created the three pony races to control the planet and sun/moon to make it go on forever, as without someone sentient making it continue it would go back to it's original state, which is likely what we saw at the end of the timetravel episode.
>>26938330
>>26938277
>They aren't just projections, like a movie.
>projection: a thing that extends outward from something else
The actual belief was that the sun and moon were expressions, ie projection, of the metaphysical reality behind the sky.
Again, what makes more sense:
That when an alicorn is trapped in the moon the entire surface of a planetary body changes instantly, and is instantly changed back when they are released.
or
The moon is an image that reflects it's current existence (just a circle in the sky vs a prison).I mean, this shit is going into nonsense headcanon zones anyway. For all we know >>26938360 is right and it's all artificial. My position is that, on a general basis, the "sky is a sphere" argument holds up better and makes more sense with the lore we know concretely than any other theory. I think pic related (which is more about the stars moving behind the moon than the similarity between the pictures), >>26938286 and >>26938153 show this within the canon itself, and this would explain almost everything we know about Equestrian astronomy.
>>26937838
So what about when the sun and moon were both in the sky and the dark and light literally were side-by-side? The show doesn't really follow physical logic.
>>26938448
my main reason to think it is artificial is because of the whole pony races thing.
Think about it, ponies need food to survive like we do, but food needs to be created by growing it(earthponies) and giving it sunlight(unicorns) and water(pegasi). But these things need to be controlled by these ponies, meaning without them there is no fauna/food, which means they couldn't have developed with evolution, meaning someone created these races specifically to make living possible in the first place. The ponies and the sun/moon had to be created at the same time!
(of course, whether they were created by an actual god-like being or some super intelligent race is another question)
Honestly, i wish they would finally explain some of the lore, it was one of the things that made me interested in this show to begin with. Maybe the "explore equestria" theme leads to a finale of finally visiting space.
>>26937418
Maybe she doesn't want to add to global warming...
>>26937612
Thank you, Mr. TV Tropes.
![kvGvv8J[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dpbeMhA.jpg "kvGvv8J[1].jpg")
>>26937418
>rotate planet
Bump for discussion.
>>26937802
the earth's gravity would have shredded the moon
or sent it careening into the planet
rip pone
>>26937979
If they had the power to stop the storms the Crystal Empire would never have needed the Crystal Heart as they would have stopped that phenomenon at the onset of the empire
Correct. But the 'never ending storms with a will of its own' shit was never a thing until the S6 opener. Until then what the Crystal Heart was implied to protect the Empire from were forces of darkness like Sombra or those that came before him. That's why it's hard to accept it being just thrown in like this. I'm willing to believe there are more locations than just the Everfree Forest where the weather manages itself, but
A) We've seen the unconstrained weather outside of the Empire before. It was not that bad, Pinkie and Cadence traversed it near-effortlessly on their way to an even more northern location (Yakyakistan, which, to the point: an entire civilization manages with the uncontrolled snow).
B) Even if the weather has a will of its own its silly that two alicorns, given the strength the narrative constantly implies they have, would truly be beyond their capability, or to even need the constant care of the Heart to keep it at bay. The vines at least were made by Discord, what makes this weather so immensely powerful (inconsistently so, given the above example?)
>>26937794
>pony planet looks like Earth
Humans confirmed extinct
>>26938277
>>they aren't celestial bodies
look you fucking hack, even if we assume that we are using the geocentric model of the universe back in the dark ages, you're still fucking wrong, celestial bodies ARE celestial bodies, and where they differ from the earth is that the earth is imperfect and the heavens are perfect. the celestial spheres aren't so much projections as they are perfectly circular and incapable of change.
>>26938448
the fact that the moon changes is actually evidence against your theory as the heavens in geocentricism are perfect and immutable. the fact that there are blemishes at all on the moon that are obviously craters implies far more than an astral projection.
>Correct. But the 'never ending storms with a will of its own' shit was never a thing until the S6 opener.
What is Hearths Warming Eve. You know, whole episode about ponies running from magical all freezing storms to Equestria. That were finally beaten back by magic shaped like heart. Do you even watch this fucking show?
>two alicorns, given the strength the narrative constantly implies they have
Celestia was beaten off-screen by Nightmare Moon, Discord, on screen by Chrysalis, was weaker than Sombra or Tirek after assimilating 2-3 cities (power of all four was evenly matched with him, in fact). Narrative constantly hammers in the princesses are quite weak and can't even stop various villains in S5 ending, that fucking shit about them being deities, not just exceptional unicorns, needs to keel over and die already.
>>26941639
>What is Hearths Warming Eve...
If the storm in the episode were windigoes I think Celestia or Luna would be able to point out as such and say so. And if it were windigoes you could evidently do away with them just by getting along with your neighbors, this clearly isn't the same shit.
>on screen by Chrysalis
After a significant enough power boost it SHOCKED everyone, including Chrysalis herself
>was weaker than Sombra or Tirek after assimilating 2-3 cities
Would like to see any sort of source on either of those (if you think she gave Twilight her magic because she was afraid of Tirek and not, you know, the omnipotent chaos god who sided with him, you're mistaken). The narrative doesn't imply they're weak: without elements, they beat both Sombra and Tirek in the distant past, with who knows how many other threats, and the characters frequently look up to them for their power.
>>26937418
>can rotate the whole planet
she raises the planet's sunlet, manlet.
>>26937418
Some kind of magic snow i guess
>>26937794
Remember when Twilight was moving Sun rapidly all over the place during the S5 finale? If she were actually rotating the planet, wouldn't the sudden dramatic angular acceleration be disastrous?
>>26937418
>Candance
>held off a giant cloud of evil for days on end
>Celestia and Luna
>can't do Rainbow's jobs for 20 minutes
What the literal FUCK!
>>26942181
that cloud of evil was sombra, and the crystal heart was still in the empire.
>>26937612
That's exactly what we are complaining about
>>26937418
They don't rotate the planet >>26941818 they just move the sun and the moon; which according to their models isn't much bigger/smaller than the planet they live in.
>>26942211
Yeah, but the "frozen north" already existed back then, it was just not mentioned yet; so that implies that Cadence was holding off both sombra and the clouds. Not that Haber, the writer of the episode, knows anything about that or cares, he had his cheap plot device to carry out his poorly-conceived episode about our next line of TOYS.
>>26939913
>#planet{
>position:absolute;
>transform:rotateY(90deg);
>}
>>26942181
She and Shiney were holding off a semi-corporeal former unicorn Tyrant, while the heart was still working its magic on keeping the Crystal Empire from being deepest Siberia. The current problem came because it was taken out, allowing the weather to resume it's natural course, defeating the sisters because they can't control nature when it doesn't cooperate, see The weather for the Everfree Forest.
>>26937418
Anyone ever consider their respective talents aren't about moving the bodies, but rather having the ability to be connected to them in such a way that they can "ask" them to move? In Celestia's case, I've always believed she uses a spell that uses the sun as leverage to move the Earth. Don't forget, they had a dozen unicorns do this same shit ages ago, and I'm willing to bet their planet had a completely normal rotation but they wanted to either be rid of winter or enhance the growing seasons by trying to control the Earth's rotation and ended up fucking it up.
If they let it go for about 100+ years, the rotation would fix itself because physics, but life would basically be wiped out on the planet. So they have to have someone "move" the planet to keep things in order.
But fuck the idea that Celestia is some sort of god, she can't even handle fucking magic jizz or some ornery snow clouds.
>>26942380
Yeh, I've actually seen this theory before, and it kinda makes some weird sense. We know very little about Celestia's/Luna's origins, and their revelation in s6e1 that no Alicorns had, to their knowledge, been previously born in Equestria throws their origin into even more murky waters.
After all, you don't exactly just grow up and one day decide "Oh, I'm gonna take over the sun now. Bye mom!".
I always wondered if Celestia and Luna were effectively extensions of their respective bodies. The spirits of the moon/sun in corporeal form, so to speak.
>>26942380
That would work except the S4 bookends. You know the opening where the sun and moon (and also night and day) were in a perfect split, and the finale where Twi hopped up on alicorn magic tried to raise the sun and made it dance like a drunken Slav.
I'm still going storybook land physics and such, where moon=night and sun=day, especially given how often said moon is full. Basically Celestia and Luna just bring in night and day. If anything besides that geocentric world with the sun and Moon on a track and it just needs a nudge.
>>26941818
>trying to apply logic to a show about flying magical ponies
An hero, faggot.
After reading this thread, it does seem to be that Faust was aiming for celestial spheres (or hemispheres) that rotate around the Earth, and not a Newtonian (or Einsteinian) physical reality like our own.
There's the images from S01E01 that are very similar to the ancient Greek representations of celestial spheres, and tons of MLPFIM lore is based on Greek legend, so that's the solution that makes the most sense.
However, now it's all fucked anyway since Faust's canon is no longer canon.
>>26942436
>You know the opening where the sun and moon (and also night and day) were in a perfect split, and the finale where Twi hopped up on alicorn magic tried to raise the sun and made it dance like a drunken Slav.
I was thinking about that as I typed, and all you need to realize is that while the sun whipped around in the sky, if you think about it, it doesn't take a whole lot of change to make the sun appear like it's flying around. From the planet itself, just adjusting the tilt a fair bit would have the effect. Now that still takes immense power, but it's not nearly as drastic. Or maybe she inherited their talents as well, so when she was merely supposed to "ask" the planet to tilt like fluttershy might, she was screaming at it like Top Cunt would.
>>26937418
Hurr durr superman is so strong but he can't lift kryptonite rofel lolol what a loser
>>26942377
>#planet
>not .planet
>>26942305
>Yeah, but the "frozen north" already existed back then, it was just not mentioned yet
what does that have to do with the heart already existing at the time? that implies she 'didnt' hold off the storm, just sombra.
>>26942734
Pretty much what she did.
>>26942734
the heart once active was able to completely obliterate sombra and all traces of his wake; it implies that the heart was useless when sombra hid it.
>>26942505
Still doesn't explain the night-day split. It's probably closer to Celestial Sphere theory, but more of a possible clockwork backdrop could be an explanation considering the split.
Either a Celestial Sphere or clockwork backdrop would fit with a storybook-cartoon world. And both allow for it, like she was pushing it like it was a three ton weight when all that was needed was a nudge, or she was fucking up the gears.
>>26942678
(you)
>>26942942
the heart is passively active. its not like theyre constantly kneeling down and sending it energy.
that was a burst.
>>26942678
pretty apt comparison.
>>26942969
Given Games Ponies Play, you might be right.
And both The Crystaling and Sombrero's defeat were times everybody biwed down and you got that power-grid thing.
>>26942678
hearty laugh for that
>>26937979
Or because it's, you know, their special talent.
>>26942463
this to be quite honest familia
familia honest quite be to this
ailimaf tsenoh etiuq eb ot siht
siht ot eb etiuq tsenoh ailimaf
>>26937418
Any faggot from the US mid west can tell you what happens when balmy weather meets a cold front.
>>26938244
Nobody knows why starswirl picked celestia and Luna they did not get there cutie marks until after they became rulers
Even then though they saw themselves more as protectors then rulers
>>26938153
At the same time, I doubt that Faust planned for Cadence and Shining Armor to have a Mary Sue alicorn baby.
>>26937418
Apparenty these are no "just some sno kloud XD"
"The great north has a will of its own"
it seems to be a gigantic entity defying the traditional physics of Equestria, and it wants back what's been taken away from him. I like this concept. Even the pones can't do shits against this malevolent thing.
>>26942268
He's just telling you how it is.
>>26937418
It's magic.
