![1117577__safe_starlight+glimmer_spoiler-colon-s06e01_the+crystalling_spoiler-colon-s06e02_sunburst_artist-colon-littlecloudie[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/lBQHFyj.png "1117577__safe_starlight+glimmer_spoiler-colon-s06e01_the+crystalling_spoiler-colon-s06e02_sunburst_artist-colon-littlecloudie[1].png")
Remember when Twilight used to be so good at magic?
Now Starlight is beating her in technique
Sunburst is beating her in knowledge
>>26882657
I'll bite
She's much better than Starlight at magic in general, just not at fighting, which they are even
And Sunburst is more knowledgeable because he knew about restoration of a very specific relic in his own town and she didn't? Nigga, come on, she's read literally tens of thousands of books
>>26882657
Possible but judging by how simplistic the writing is you take it at face value.
>>26882735
His restoration ritual wasn't specific though, he also knew how to stabilyze a baby, something Twilight didn't think was possible.
>>26882657
twilight get owned
>>26882657
twilight is a jack of all trades, master of none.
>>26882657
Twilight is slowy becoming into another celestia, at least celestia 2.0 will be cute
>>26882975
Starlight was able to improve upon spells, her magical technique might just be better than Twilight's.
Twilight may know more spells, but Starlight has shown to be a VERY fast learner.
>>26882657
Remember when people constantly called her a boring, perfect princess mary sue? How do these people reconcile that statement with threads like these?
>>26882657
Twilight's cutie mark is just generalized magic; she may be poweful, sure, but she's not the most powerful. She's a jack of all trades.
Meanwhile, Starlight's talent is pure magic (as in, she's a lot worse at theory but extremely powerful) while Sunburst has a talent in magic theory.
>>26883007
No flaws were introduced to her, the power ceiling was just raised.
>>26883018
what is trixie's?
what is sunset's?
>>26883007
People will call the main character of any show a mary sue to the day they die.
>>26882975
>>26882992
Here's my view:
Twilight: Very powerful, very knowledgeable
Starlight: Incredibly powerful, not that knowledgeable
Sunburst: Not that powerful, incredibly knowledgeable.
If any of you are fa/tg/uys, I think of Starlight as a sorcerer, Twilight as a wizard, and Sunburst as a low-level STP erudite.
>>26883041
thats actually what i was thinking.
>>26883024
If you are saying that she still has no flaws and that the new characters are only more powerful than her, then saying she "used to be so good at magic" is a false statement. She is just as good as she previously was. If she was a mary sue before, then whoever is more powerful than her must be even more of a mary sue. qed.
ITT: We pull shit out of our asses
>>26883041
/thread
>>26882992
Actually Twilight learns spells faster than anyone. She copied Starlight's shield spell perfectly after seen it used just once, whereas Starlight "took years" to study that spell. Twilight did that again when she used Starlight's crystal prison spell against her.
>>26882657
Everyday until you accept it.
>>26883036
Trixie's talent is illusion magic (obviously). Sunset's talent is... a lot more vague, since we've never seen her use magic before.
>>26882657
It's the wings, they're sucking up anything and everything that made her a decent character.
>>26882657
Twilight cast a spell to restore a powerful ancient artifact. From memory after reading the spell once. Seems to me like she is still plenty good at magic.
>>26883117
She can teleport. Her only feat under her own power. Only babbys and alicorns can also. Starlight notably hasn't been shown to truly teleport.
>>26882657
is there a gendo pose of sunburst?
>>26883150
Yeah, but teleportation either requires uncontrollable magic, or a lot of theory. And as previously established, Starlight isn't that good at magic theory.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the great D&D feel to this episode?
>Fledgling's Forbearance
>Somnambula's Weather Abjuration
>Reliquary Constitution
I'm totally homebrewing all of these
>>26883082
>implying im bothered by ascensions
thought everyones problem with MMC was it was rushed, not what it was about.
>>26883150
>Only babbys and alicorns can also.
What the fuck are you smoking? Twilight teleported all the time before she was an alicorn.
>>26883190
>friendly reminder that we /mltg/ now.
https://desustorage.org/mlp/thread/26803647/
>>26883204
She always was the exception mate.
>>26883077
>She copied Starlight's shield spell perfectly after seen it used just once
Twilight has used that spell before, first time was back in Season 2 and clearly based on her brother's spell.
I'm not saying you're wrong though, since Twilight has been shown to be extremely capable at copying other spells very efficiently, such as the second example you mentioned and Celestia's dark magic, and even Rarity's gem finding spell in Season 1
>>26883221
So you have a rule and immediately list 4 exceptions to it? Doesn't seem like much of a rule, retard.
>>26883041
I don't get how anyone could see Starlight as more powerful if not for blind waifuism or hatred for Twilight.
Starlight can steal cutiemarks, while Twilight can manipulate gravity, tranform ponies into other creatures, give ponies wings, materialize inside books, freeze and entire village, use dark magic and all sorts of advanced magic.
Then a new character who knew a couple of stuff Twilight didn't, and he's suddenly more knowledgeable than her.
Where are you going with this?
>>26883249
>time travel
>Twilight lost in every timeline they fought
She said it herself, she couldn't stop Starlight. Starlight is better at a few spells, but Twilight knows many more. That's the difference between a sorc and a wizard.
>>26883041
So does that mean that Sunburst has a higher INT stat than Twilight?
>>26883234
Only one at the start of the series, her. As the show progressed others were added. Learn to think, idiot.
>>26883265
No, a sorc doesn't have to memorize spells, but takes a penalty to the maximum castable per day
>>26883302
Ah, sorry about that. I've only played a tiny bit of 3.5, and most of my experience is in 5e where sorcs do get more powerful effects on their spells but have fewer of them known. My knowledge of other classes comes from reading stuff on them.
>>26883292
Possibly.
>>26883265
Stopping RD from doing performing Sonic Rainbow was magnitudes easier than what Twilight had to do. Still, Twilight landed a spell on Starlight, freezing her, seconds after escaping Nightmare Moon with Spike.
What spells is Starlight better than Twilight at?
>>26883326
from performing the Sonic Rainboom*
>>26883326
>What spells is Starlight better than Twilight at?
Time travel, for once. Modifying centuries-old spells.
>>26883347
Starlight said in the finale, "It wasn't difficult to change Starswirl's spell, He'd already done the hard part". Besides, altering a scroll is not a spell. What spell is she better than Twilight at? This should be easy if she's more powerful
>>26883292
starlight and twilight are both leaders though, so they have decent charisma.
sunburst cha a shit.
>>26883414
Star probably has a shit wisdom
>>26883117
I always saw her as huge power and nothing else.
She has no technique, she is essentially like Ganondorf.
>>26883265
>time travel
>a spell modified by Starlight so she's dragged back to that time whenever Twilight uses the magic
>Starlight already anticipate that Twilight would return, so she was prepared to fire at Twilight
>Twilight was repeatedly dragged back to the present, where she had to cast the spell multiple times and even avoid getting hurt/caught
>implying Starlight was better
Twilight had a fuckton of shit to take care, cast the same timetravel spell multiple times and still had to be quick enough to dodge Starlight's attack when she was already waiting for her without ever needing to cast anything.
>>26883399
They fought to a stalemate and Starlight easily beat Twilight up to that point. Why do you need some specific spell pointed out? She was better at shields, Twilight just learned to match her quickly. She was better at magical laser beams, Twilight just managed to catch up. She did the encasing in clear stone thing, Twilight copied that. She can self-levitate, which I don't recall Twilight ever having done. She has massive untapped power, which is what Celestia saw in Twilight and is what Twilight sees in Starlight, hence the forgiveness and taking-on-of-a-student bit.
She clearly has loads of powers and excelled at several areas that she beat Twilight at. Twilight's big strength in the fight against her is that she rapidly picks up new magical skills and can employ them - which is something she has always been good at. I think you may be confusing me for someone else but I didn't say Starlight is more powerful overall. They both have their strengths. All their fighting came to a stalemate where Twilight knew she could not stop Starlight unless she convinced her, because she had rigged the time travel spell to always send her back first.
>>26883468
>She can self-levitate, which I don't recall Twilight ever having done.
S3 premier. She self levitates to not crash on those stairs before she entered that door.
>>26883265
I fear not the man who's practiced one thousand kicks, but the man who's practiced a single kick one thousand times - Bruce Lee
>>26883077
Twilight seems to be really good at learning from observation. Think about it, how many unicorns aside from Twiggles and Shimmy can teleport? She's exceptional at quick learning and modification, but her book learning can leave something to be desired (see Bridal Gossip).
Starlight Glimmado is incredibly powerful, but takes time to do something like modify a spell, and has to plan. Unlike Twiggles she can't just observe, and likely has to rack her brain to thoroughly modify a spell.
And Sunburst is great at theory and probably research of old, old spells, but as far as actually applying that knowledge on his own, even Sweetie in S1 could beat him. He, unlike Twiggles, likely doesn't look down on something like Pinkie Sense or Super-Naturals.
>>26883468
Twilight can self-levitate too. Face it, Twilight would beat Starlight always if Twilight bothered to practice combat magic. Starlight planned for weeks and presumably worked her ass off just to barely match Twilight.
>>26883468
>better at shields
What? Twilight did the vast majority of magic shields in the finale, she's been great at it since she was a unicorn. Starlight merely dodged
>better at leaser beams
Bases on what?
>self-levitation
Twilight did it twice as a unicorn. One of the times while simultaneously carrying the entire main cast
Watch the damn show, blind waifufag
>>26883505
A gun is going to kill you faster than a full mechanic's shop, but you can do many more things with a shop than a gun.
>>26883468
>>26883512
>>26883513
They're probably equals overall, with Starlight's raw power and expertise in combat magic evenly matched against Twilight's ability to replicate spells and sheer knowledge of arcane theory and mental library of spells.
>>26883204
Babbys do it because magic incontinence, alicorns innately, Sunset most likely taught by Celestia, and Twiggles by observing Nightmare Moon.
Basically it's either uncontrolled, or related to alicorn magic.
>>26883550
Except in that Twilight got into a stalemate despite being an alicorn, and outclassing Starlight from the get go; thus, Starlight is the better magic user.
>>26883550
I was using Twiggles as a baseline for Starlight and her Husbando. Basically they play off of her, sort of acting as the specialists to her generalized magic.
>>26883611
Agreed.
She has a balanced mix of skill and knowledge. Starlight and Sunburst are each one of those taken to the extreme.
>>26883550
They're evenly matched in combat from what we've seen in the finale, even though Twilight was unprepared and doesn't fly all that well. I don't see Starlight having more raw power, nothing in the show implies that in the slightest
>>26883575
Twiggles' power as an alicorn seems to be about the same as her power as a unicorn, S4 finale notwithstanding.
>>26883633
S4 finale had her powered up.
>>26883795
Did he not just say FINALE NOTWITHSTANDING?
>>26883811
It doesn't even matter.
>>26882657
Cue Near finger puppets.
What if this is the beginning of a turning point in the show, for the phasing out of the mane 6 as being the show's focus.
Like by the end of the season, it starts focusing around new characters and such including Starlight, Sunburst, the Crystal Empire royalty, etc. It would do something like follow Starlight around as her position as Twilight's pupil, the growing up of Flurry, etc.
It would allow the writers to stop having to develop already highly developed characters, instead of having to write stories that seem too forced.
>>26883292
Sunburst = high INT and WIS
Twilight = High WIS and CHA
>>26884731
>Twilight Sperglord
>High CHA
My sides.
>>26884569
They still seem to be building up Spike, so he'll stay around.
>>26884867
She is the princess of friendship.
>>26884731
those are backwards anon
>>26884731
Sunburst=high WIS low INT low CHA
Twiggy=high WIS high INT average CHA
Glim Glim= low WIS high INT high CHASunset= low WIS average INT average CHA
>>26884867
High CHA by their standards.
>>26883249
lots of people have a hateboner for twilicorn
>>26885049
>high WIS Twiggles
Now this made me laugh more.
>>26885116
don't bully the twiggy
>>26885116
she's shown incredibly high WIS throughout the series, for example, the ursa minor scene. her acting like a retard later on due to shit writing doesn't change that.
>>26885154
>later on
Ticketmaster came in later seasons guys, Bridle Gossip as well, and let's not forget Look Before You Sleep when she had a tree in her house.
>>26885280
yeah let's ignore the other dozen times where she displayed extremely high WIS
the writing might be inconsistent as fuck, but you're only taking into account the occasions where she was retarded
>>26884992
Yeah, I can see him being the only original "main" character to stick around in nearly every episode.
Maybe more CMC as they age and maybe enroll as some or twilight's pupils, or something. And follow their progress.
This all would be great.
>>26884569
It has me nervous.
>>26882657
Good. Twilight sold her happiness when she became royalty.
>>26883060
Congratulations, you've just summarised every show discussion thread regarding any show on any board ever.
Sunburst=average WIS very high INT low CHA
Twilight=average WIS high INT average CHA
Starlight=high WIS average INT high CHA
>>26888980
I agree with this
Sunset: Average WIS Low Int very high CHA
>>26889041
disagree, sunset showed skill with math/science/magic, but not the wherewithal to resist temptation, meaning a low WIS.
>>26889053
True
Would EQG Sunburst be the kind of kid that gets his GED early and skips high school?
>>26889071
Probably, and then take college classes online from inside his basement.
>>26888980
Obviously, Starlight has a higher CHA, she managed to fool an entire town into having their CMs removed.
Adding to that,
Sunburst = low mana
Twilight = huge mana
Starlight = decent mana
>>26889071
>>26889116
Wouldn't Sunburst have a better life in EqG world since he is good at theory?
What the fuck do all those terms mean?
>>26889191
CHA means charisma
INT means intelligence
WIS means wisdom
>>26882657
Wait, are you complaining about a character being painted as LESS Mary Sue-esque ?
Twilight being beaten on a few specific spot by other unicorns is a very good thing.
>>26889292
To elaborate:
Intelligence is used for raw brainpower, the ability to think analytically, remember facts, and handle data.
Wisdom is used for awareness, gut feelings, folk knowledge, detecting if someone is hiding something, and the sorts of things you can't learn in books.
Charisma is used for charming, intimidating, persuading, or otherwise working with people.
Computers would have a very high INT but a very low WIS, and an uneducated mountain man who knew how to survive in the depths of winter would have a low INT but a high WIS.
And a STP erudite is a class that can learn all spells.
>implying the newer episodes/seasons are even worth giving a fuck about or watching at all
>>26890396
And you sure are so great and above everyone else that you come to a discussion thread just to shit on.
This thread. Twily literally says herself Shimmies is much stronger than her. It one of the reasons Shimmer was not left to rot. And the biggest reason I'd think Twilight took her on as a student. Love twilight,but it came from the horses mouth.
>>26890570
Freaking glimmer/shimmer Idk and care anymore
>>26890570
Can you show me where she says that? I couldn't find it anywhere
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Transcripts/The_Cutie_Re-Mark_-_Part_2
>>26890909
That was on S5 finale
>>26891043
Yes, the link is the transcript of the S5 finale, show me where she says Glimmer is stronger than her
>>26891081
Twilight Sparkle: She obviously has more talent for magic than almost anypony I've seen. My magic couldn't stop her. I had to convince her to stop on her own.
>>26882657
>Be the best at magic
>Spend time on friendships instead of solely focusing on magic studies
>Be no longer the best at magic
>>26891630
That's not it. She doesn't say or even implies she has more talent for magic than herself.
She couldn't stop her with magic solely because stopping the sonic rainboom was a lot easier than what Twilight had to do, thanks to Starlight's foolproof plan
>>26891676
Twilight could have stopped at one of the bad futures, and take time to create a better spell, but she didn't
>>26891699
Yeah, she could
>>26891630
this did you guys watch the episode?
>>26891720
but she didn't, she didn't even consider herself able to modify the time spell. She's worse than Glimmer.
>>26891740
She didn't think about it, or most likely it would make no difference. And modifying the scroll wasn't a great feat, as Starlight put it herself: ""It wasn't difficult to change Starswirl's spell, He'd already done the hard part".
>>26891783
Twilight was not able to do it, and modifying the spell would have made all the difference, because it would have removed Glimmer's interference.
>>26891783
>She didn't think about it, or most likely it would make no difference.
But the point is if she was better than magic than Glimmer. She would have modified a counter spell. Especially if it wasnt such a great feat. This is a brain of a scholar were talking about here. She should have thought about that. Stop denying it. Shes weaker.
>>26891783
It was easy for Starlight, but apperently not so easy for everyone else. Otherwise, as the other anon already said, Twilight would do it herself.
Stop making empty speculation just for the sake of making your waifu look supirior.
>>26891799
I'm not going into headcanon territory, maybe it was possible to remove Glimmer's interference, or maybe not. Maybe Twilight was not capable to do it. But Starlight being able to modify it doesn't put her above Twilight, especially when the latter knows far more advanced spells and was able to fight on equal grounds despite being unprepared and not being great at combat.
Twilight might not be that spectacular at magic, but absolutely nothing suggests that Starlight is above her. Stealing cutiemarks is her only unique advance spell.
>>26891853
>waifu
She's my second to last favorite mane 6, but when i see bullshit like this, i like to argue regardless
>>26892019
Honestly, we would need to wait till the end of the season to see a final result.
Remember how little oversight there is for the writers.
>>26892019
Which are those "far more advanced spells"?
>>26892019You can add going through time as an advance spell too.^:)
But really I vote we wait to see what she can do.
From what it looks like, the far more advance spells under glimmers belt trumps Twilights tbqhfam
>>26892050
Gravity manipulation, giving ponies wings, materializing inside books, freezing dozens at ponies at once, dark magic, water walking, teleporting multiple ponies at once, etc.
Glimmer only knows a few tricks and she couldn't even beat a pony who's a jack of all trades, master of none.
>>26892125
She sure beat Twilight.
>>26892019
She had all eternity to come up with her own plan, but she choose to give up any attempt to win Starlight by means of magic, and even admited that her magic wasn't enough to stop her. What more do you want, I don't understand? For Glimmer to turn a pigeon into an orange? Or some other similar shit like using Sombra's magic to open some door? None of which, I have to note, has ever been claimed to be "advanced magic".
>>26892144
+1 gg
>>26892144
Not in combat. Glimmer had a long time to come up with a plan and put Twilight in a situation where nothing she could do would matter, maybe not even if she had the power of four alicorns.
I'm only arguing about how powerful at magic they are.
>>26892168
Her magic wasn't enough to stop her because of how infallible Glimmer's plan was, and we don't know if Twilight could remove Glimmer's control over the time spell, that's speculation. Stop repeating the same arguments over and over.
And you don't think these spells are advanced? Then what does that make Starlight, when she only has one unique spell.
>>26892339
This isn't about combat, it's about magic. Twilight should have at least tried to create a new spell, there was no time limit, because she would always go back to the sonic rainboom time.
Glimmer's plan wasn't infallible. Twilight was just unable to fix the spell on her own, and gave up. Twilight loses at magic.
>>26892371
>draw once
>forever worse
thats not how it works.
>>26892371
Most of what you said is plausible, except that Twilight not taking the course of action you suggested doesn't make her less powerful at magic in the slightest
>>26892371
Gosh darn it. Stop saying what I'm about to say.
>>26892339
As for advance magic, If i remember correctly, isnt 'advance magic' Labeled in levels? So in order for her to even get that far in magic, Glimmer would have to know how to do some of the useless stuff Twilight didn't make up. Stop saying shes a one trick pone too she has at least two advance spells she shown under her belt.
>>26892420
Magic is all about the mind, Twilight didn't have the mind to put a better plan into action. Thus, she is worse at magic.
In no way I mean it in terms of raw power, Twi is a fucking alicorn, thus she should be more powerful than Glimmer. However, Glimmer was better at using her magic than Twi, and you can't deny that.
Else, you're pretty much saying that Trixie is better than Twilight, because she was defeated without the use of actual magic. This is how dumb you sound.
>>26892446
Then again Glimmer hasnt had enough screen time to display the skills she has.
>>26892420
She tried to use her magic against Glimmer and failed. Repeatedly. It does
>>26892339
It would be infallible, if Starlight were written not to pull Twilight to the same timeline, literally giving her an opportunity to interfere with the plan by that. Although I guess, everything would end right there.
I would stop repeating the same argument, if your whole counterpoint weren't based on an assumption that Starlight is only able to use those spells she were shown to use in 4 episodes she was part of.
>>26892446
>>26892605
As it stands, the spells we've seen Glimmer casting in the show are the only spells she's capable of using. Otherwise we can make almost any assumptions
>>26892467
Glimmer was better at using her own magic indeed, but Twilight was cornered from the very moment she first got sucked into the past. You can say she could've stayed in an alternate dimension for infinite time to come up with a better plan, but again, that's speculation. She could fear that the table would vanish or be destroyed if she didn't hurry or something. Your assumption allows for even more assumptions.
>>26892731
Twilight still lost, so the point stands, she wasn't able to come up with a way to counter any of the spells Glimmer used, and none of her own spells stopped Glimmer.
Let me remind you that Twi is better at magic than Trixie, because she defeated her without using magic at all.
>>26892790
Twilight losing after being sucked back into the past all of the sudden and having absolutely no options from the start, doesn't make her worse at magic. Nothing could change the outcome, it was a perfect ambush. It was ingenious on Starlight's part, but it didn't take great magic talent at all, as she said it herself Starswirl did the hard part and it was the table who made it possible. By the way, her knowing that the table could imbue the scroll with its power makes absolutely no sense. Terrible writing.
>>26892961
that's where you're wrong, Twi was unable to do what was easy for Glimmy, so Twi is worse, it's that easy.
Twi couldn't crack Glimmer's code.
>>26892992
Again, Twilight wasn't even given the chance to try to alter the scroll. If we make the assumption that she could settle in one of the timelines to research and figure how to do it, we can make many other assumptions as to why she had to get the fuck outta there as soon as possible, like her fearing the table could be destroyed. That still says nothing about their magic talent.
>>26893159
She was impresseded by Glimmer being able to alter Starswirl's spell. Twi was not able to do it.
Let me remind you that when she worked with time traveling, she could only go back a single week, and for two ninutes.
>>26893159
I won't be able to reply anymore. It was enjoyable discussing with you fags, but i gotta go.
>>26893249
>>26893249
See you dude, was fun.
>>26893246
One last reply, then
Twilight didn't try to alter the scroll back in season 2, she only cast the spell. Then she learned that time traveling shouldn't be messed with, so there's no reason she would even look into altering it. But if in any case she did, the map didn't exist back then to power up the scroll, so it would be pointless.
>>26893288
Peace
>>26893330
so, she let herself go.
>>26893246
It was a different spell mate. She was able to use the modified time travel spell easily. It means nothing other than that Twiggy doesn't have the ambition (something her counterparts, Sunset and Starlight, have a lot of) to perform or create grandiose spells. That does not mean she is weaker. Twilight could very likely perform Starlight's cutie mark replacement spell herself if she wanted to.
"Why didn't she?" It isn't answered. Doesn't mean she couldn't, doesn't mean she could. However, given her track record with performing and copying spells, I have little doubt she could if she so chose.
>>26893355
She was doing her best to stop Glimmer, so of all the choices available to her, the only one left was to surrender. She recognized Starlight as the superior one.
>>26893355
lack of ambition to perform grandiose spells as in she's not hellbent on getting revenge, conquering or destroying the world
>>26893390
She didn't surrender. She acknowledged she couldn't brute force her way to make the Rainboom. It isn't just about defeating Starlight in battle, she STILL had to force the Rainboom to happen. Several times (after the initial stalemate) she finally managed to one-up Glimmer except the Rainboom still wasn't able to happen so Starlight wins by default still.
It was a great plan sure, and it better have been with all the planning and prep Glim Glam did. That doesn't mean Starlight's magic is stronger, which is what this argument is about.
>>26893390
surrender was the only option from the start, regardless of her magic power. glimmy's masterplan was pretty neat, crashing equestria with no survivors just by distracting filly blue cunt
>>26893441
The argument was never about power, it was about the better magic user.
Twi, as an alicorn outclasses Glimmer in all the stats.
>>26893521
to properly decide who's a better magic user, wouldn't they have to start on equal grounds, instead of one being completely fucked over from the beggining by surprise, and the other being prepared and having to do shit other than dodge laserbeams?
>>26893597
She failed in the moment when she was surprised.
>>26893521
That makes it even easier. Twilight without any question. The ultimate combination of magic both in power and smarts. There are only "possible" exceptions, and even if there are true ones, Twilight is the most balanced and is far above average. If only I had some sort of visual representation.
>>26893639
The thing is, Twilight doesn't really have the smarts Glimmer does. All she's got is a big power up, gained by Celestia's influence.
>>26893676
What kind of smarts? Knowledge-wise her only rivals are Sunburst and Zecora. Planning-wise? Obviously Starlight and perhaps Sunburst (MAYBE Sunset, being generous). It's hard to really qualify.
>>26893597
If she had a couple hours to prepare, the episode would be over before the intro.
>>26893725
The smarts to modify an ages old spell with no repercussions.
>>26893734
Yeah right, batfag.
>>26893743
>The smarts to modify an ages old spell with no repercussions.
Thats a fair point. Not even StarSwirl could do that. Although he did leave the resources to avoid the mistakes he made.
>>26893725
planning is one of twilight's biggest strengths. with all her knowledge and researching capabilities, i don't think anyone could stop her from getting whatever she wants. if she wasn't a saint, that is.
>>26893799
starswirl couldn't do that because the cutiemap didn't exist. his scroll was right there in a public library.
>>26893817
Glimmer knew more about the cutie map than Twi
>>26893817
>starswirl couldn't do that because the cutiemap didn't exist.
You think he needed a moral compass in order to complete the spell? kek
>>26882657
Twilight spent her whole childhood learning directly from Celestia. Of course all she knows is how to be useless.
>>26893892
the modified scroll needed the map to function
Alright I'm going to stick my head in this thread again, and seeing how everyone agrees on what type of classes Glimmer and Twilight are this will be easier
Glimmer is a sorceress, but does this mean? It means instead of reading tome, memorizing spell, and practicing the spell over and over again. Sorcerers says fuck that, and just pulls raw magic from their surrounding area, and cast spells with it. This means Glimmer will be able to cast Fireball, Horrid Wilting, and Time Stop much faster than Twilight can.
Twilight on the other hand is a Wizard meaning She takes longer to get to those high level spells. But unlike Glimmer who is throwing raw magic at you, Twilight through years of practice, and study has refined those same spells into much more powerful versions of themselves.
Also a high level Sorc can beat a high level Wiz, but that doesn't mean that the Sorc is stronger than the Wiz, there are several factors that go into a fight, and it just so happen that the factors favored Glimmer more than Twilight
>>26893926
Wasn't it modified to use the map to go through twilights and her friends timeline?
If not..
>he needed a moral compass in order to complete the spell
>He needed friends to complete one of his final spells
My sides. He needed somethings in his life
>>26894056
would be pretty accurate if not for the fact that twilight picks up spells just by watching them being cast once. good post nonetheless.
>>26894056
Good post.
I still think that Sunburst is probably a refluffed STP erudite, but that's up for debate.
>>26893743
Except that there isn't anything stating that Twilight couldn't do that herself. Sure, she never thought of it. Doesn't mean she couldn't possibly do it.
Twilight lacks ambition. If Twilight had the ambition Sunset or Starlight had I'm sure Equestria would have toprepare for unforseen consequences.
>>26894934
Twilight didn't think it possible, that means she can't do it.
>>26894950
The only way for that to be true if for her to try it herself before Starlight did, and fail. Since Glimmer did it first (and later Twilight performed the spell herself) it's a moot point now.
>>26895033
Perform =/= alter
>>26895051
altering it isn't impressive. knowing that the map could be used is impressive. but they never gave a reasonable explanation as to why starlight knew. lazy villain writing, i guess.
>>26894934
How do you know that? You are literally assuming that she's able to do something despite there being zero ground that would support that. Altering the fucking scroll would be the most simple and efficient way to deal with Starlight, explain to me, why she didn't do it?
>>26895138
Twilight never even bothered to study the map tho.
>>26895140
read the thread
>>26895169
I did and haven't seen anything, please proceed and point me out the post, or ,at the very least, write those reasons down.
Ive yet to see twi freeze someone in crystal.Just sayan
>>26895239
She did it to Starlight, didn't she.
>>26883056
you saved my gif!
I kinda doubt that Starlight is anywhere close to Twilight in terms of both skill and magic power.
She is more cunning though. Her achievements are result of long-time preparation and usage of external tools - like that spell scroll. This is what makes her potentially dangerous, not actual power.
Twilight never had to or tried to perform something of too many steps or especially long span. Her duel with Trixie was probably the best we've seen from her in this direction.
And, obviously, she never were a villain and never had ambitions to do some real shit. Given her love for planning in everyday life and outbursts of OCD, she could've done some shit much more dangerous than Glim Glam did.
Sunburst being more knowledgable than Twilight makes perfect sense however. Given they are about the same age, she spent her time learning magic, reading books, growing a dragon, making friends, teaching CMC, doing other shit.
Sunburst meanwhile was reading books having a special talent to read books.
>>26895274
>>26895217 (You)
>see >>26893159
Wasn't given a chance isn't an argument, it's assumption, a baseless one at that.
The more plausible explanation she couldn't and so she didn't even try. Occama's razor.
>>26895358
On top of this anon
Twilight said it her self her own magic power could
defeat Glimmer. Thats saying something.
The only magic twilight had to defeat her with though is the magic of that friendship, am i rite?
>>26895382
couldnt my engrish is acting up bad today
>>26895316
Well, Rarity didn't try to do anything Twilight did, so I'm saying Rarity is actually much more powerful than Twilight, she just never wanted to read boring books about how turn something into an orange, she likes dresses more.
>>26895396
>>26895382
She was caught in the loop and saw no exit out of there. It isn't about comparing magical powers. I am pretty sure, Twilight "could" just murder Glim Glam, and go back once more with her body. She just didn't as that wasn't an option for her.
>>26895428
Did you even watched the episode? Because I'm starting questioning your sainity, if you did.
>>26895428
>It isn't about comparing magical powers
She literally says it is magic talent
>>26895304
Rainbow Dash is better at Magic than Twilight Sparkle
>>26895396
consider her magic power and knowledge, her expertise for research and planning. it's perfectly reasonable to assume she'd be a bigger threat
>>26895488
CONFIRMED
>>26895492
Nah, senpai. Rarity is a rough gem. Twilight wouldn't have a chance, if Rarity read a book or two.
>>26895488
Actually being able to do a rainboom and still stay in one piece afterwards unharmed. I believe it to bad she cant use that magic for much else other than weather.
>>26895396
That's some next-level shitposting, son.
The only spell Glim Glam used, that Twilight didn't is her Cutie Mark removal spell.
Time travelling is a Starswirl's spell and Twilight already used it prior to going all wings and shit.
All that Glim Glam did is figured how to remove "5 minutes only" safeguards from the spell, which is a great achievement, but not a display of sheer magic power. It is even explicitly shown, that she is unable to use that spell without the scroll, as she is unable to re-create it.
Twilight completed a fate-altering spell for fuck's sake.
And if using tools is a way to evaluate someone's magic potential, Rarity is indeed the strongest. Inspiration Manifestation Rarity could've turned both horses in question into candlesticks in a blink of an eye.
>>26895488
>all those shitty scores for twilight
>>26895533
That crystallization spell though.. ^:)))))
ITT: People forget that Glim Glam was written as a villain for a T.V. show that wasn't allowed to be beaten until the timer was up
>>26895533
>t is even explicitly shown, that she is unable to use that spell without the scroll, as she is unable to re-create it.
She demonstratively threw out the scroll, where's exactly was explicitly shown that she needed it?
I don't really care what spells Twilight know or did, she failed to overcome Starlight, and admited herself her own inability to acomplish anything with magic against Starlight as well as her talent at magic.
>>26895533
>It is even explicitly shown, that she is unable to use that spell without the scroll, as she is unable to re-create it.
For twilight..
Also we dont know much about the spells Glimmer has performed as we dont have a series about her yet. Technically Twi was the main character for the show.
>>26895588
This
>>26895637
Anyway it's quite late over here, and I seem not to be in any condition to write any sensible sentences. So I'm leaving this conversation for now.
>>26895637
she didn't need it because it was twilight casting the spell that brought starlight back into the sonic rainboom timeline.
twilight failing to overcome her has nothing to do with their magic talent, just read the thread
>>26895705
It has to do with her inability to alter the spell. That's a limitation to her magic talent.
Starlight even told her that the spell itself brought her back in time berofe Twilight's arrival; that should have been all Twilight needed to know in order to defeat her.
>>26895705
Back from where? She didn't know what was happening to present time until Twilight shown her. The magic talent piece is a result of things Twilight herself said.
>>26895705
>twilight failing to overcome her has nothing to do with their magic talent
This is some advance shitposting. She literally states herself.. huh Im record player.
You know what watch the episode, then read the thread, Then reply.
Also Yes she stopped twi from reaching any timeline earlier than her. But she still couldnt defeat her in 1v1 m8.
>>26882657
Nigger you expect twilight to know specific things about the chrystal heart and not the guy that lives 100 yards from the damn thing?
>>26895751
i don't know, she was bound to the spell. she said everytime twilight casts the spell on the map, she's sent back there a few seconds before twilight appears.
>>26895754
the counter-arguments for these points have already been posted in this thread, we are going into an endless cycle now
>>26895807
Well, wasn't she researching the whole thing beforehand, which should give her an upperhand over someone who just reads stuff about magic without any sort of particular end in mind.
>>26895844
>the counter-arguments for these points have already been posted in this thread, we are going into an endless cycle now
This is true. But.. You know what. Familia there is an infinite number of Glims simultaneously kicking Twilights ass.
>>26895903
kicking twilight's ass as in getting blasted in the face with a freezing spell, familia
>>26895928
Also as in, she quick scoped the fuck out her. familia home fries
>>26895903
>being this stupid
For people like you, it was explicitly shown, that Twilight couldn't actually fight Glim Glam, as it would draw attention of RD resulting in no Rainboom.
That isn't a display of excessive magical strength, neither it's a display of magical talent exceeding Twilight's.
It's a display of cunning and planning. Which is also part of magical talent, but isn't exactly what we are talking about.
>>26895990
>Twilight couldn't just teleport both of them somewhere far and hold her there until the rainboom happened.
>>26895990
Rewatch the fucking episode they both fought till exhaustion, Twilight did say that she couldn't overcome her with magic, what else do you want?
>>26896024
>ending the episode prematurely
>>26896024
So many things Twilight could've done. But the writers make her just shoot lasers.
>>26896082
>>26896085
Its also implied she tried this as this is a magical means of victory if successful.
Spoiler:It failed
>>26896085
>>26896082
Why the idea of Twilight being written as an equal or a less powerful magician is so alien and frightening to you?
>>26896181
not at all, it's just that there's nothing that suggest she's less powerful at magic, some people think otherwise, and that's why we debate. she "failed" due to a whole bunch of other factors not entirely related to magic talent, factors that were extensively discussed in this thread.
but regarding that last reply, it's kinda bullshit when the writers ignore the many useful spells she could use to solve problems.
>>26883795
POWER OVERWHELMING
>>26896283
>kinda bullshit when the writers ignore the many useful spells she could use to solve problems.
First stage denial. ^:)))
She tried all magical means she knew.
>>26896315
no aoe freeze, no teleporting starlight, no holding her with tk, etc. but the plot had to end in a friendly way, with starlight realizing her mistakes and with twilight holding her hoof (which i don't mind), so let's pretend she even knew those spells
>>26896467
>let's pretend she didn't even know those spells
fixed
>>26883082
I said the same yesterday and nobody cares
>>26896481
>2006+10
>not using ABP
Let me guess, your favorite pony is Applejack?
>>26896467
>wew.jpg
>We skipping to bargaining.
The magic of friendship is all you need to win in the end ^:)))
>>26896474
>Second stage: Anger
She knew most of the counter spells against Twi with her 'limited' knowledge
>>26882657
>>26896481
>>26883082
My dubs in the thread where they posted the video for season 6 already confirmed this. Its the only obvious outcome.
>>26896283
Perhaps, it's implied that as an experienced magician Twilight understands which part of her magical repertoire will have an effect on an opponent, and which won't.
The same goes with her not giving a shot at rewriting the spell scroll.
The point of other factor being the most crucial, in my opinion, crumbles with Twilight's wording of this sentence >>26891630.
Remember first and foremost it's a children cartoon and it requires a simple and straightforward message. Kids don't speculate, they don't look for every shadow of meaning, and ,in my opinion, to get the intended meaning of message you have to take it at face value as the kid would.
>>26896513
you replied to me twice. also, fuck off with the shitposting, we were having a decent discussion before you got here
>>26896557
the message is indead straight forward.
starlight is one of the most talented ponies she's ever seen, no one denied that.
she couldn't stop her with magic, she had to convince her to stop, which doesn't mean she's weaker at all, especially when you consider she wouldn't be able to stop starlight no matter how powerful she was.
>>26896642
>fuck off with the shitposting, we were having a decent discussion before you got here.
I was here since the beginning. I just realized its no use arguing with you anymore.
But to keep with arguing with you.
>she couldn't stop her with magic, she had to convince her to stop, which doesn't mean she's weaker at all, especially when you consider she wouldn't be able to stop starlight no matter how powerful she was.
This is false, the only condition in the spell was that Twilight would be forced to go to the same time as Glimmer. If twilight could defeat or stall her long enough she would have been able to stop Glimmer. The fact that the only way to defeat her was to talk to her proves that Glimmer is more magically talented than Twilight. What more do you want?
>>26896744
if you're just going to ignore everything that's been said and repeat the same arguments that were already been countered, then nevermind. you can resume your shitposting.
>>26896786
Point to me where this has been countered. Please. Ive yet to see it.
Also i prefer it being called funposting
>>26896815
Wow did I mention I'm a twifag
>>26896642
You see, there is no point in putting
>My magic couldn't stop her. I had to convince her to stop on her own.
after
>She obviously has more talent for magic than almost anypony I've seen.
Unless you wanted to provide some basis as to why you think she's a talented at magic. Do you see where I'm going with this?
>>26882657
HONK HONK MOTHERFUCKERS
WAIFU FAG ALERT
WAIFU FAG ALERT
INCOMING DAMAGE CONTROL
MILITARY GRADE DAMAGE CONTROL
LETS GET ONE THING VERY CLEAR YOU STUPID FUCKS, I KNOW MY SHIT AND I AM HERE TO DEFEND TWILIGHTS HONOR
MILITARY GRADE DAMAGE CONTROL
INCOMING DAMAGE CONTROL
First, many of you state that in the second part of the Season 5 Finale "The Cutie Re-Mark Part 2" that Twilight was unable to stop Starlight from interfering with Rainbow dash and thus losing the fight ultimatly. You have to look at it from a perspective as to what each of the ponies was trying to achieve.
>2 men in a room
>1 Glass Vase in the center of the room
>Man A has been tasked with breaking the vase
>Man B has been tasked with keeping the vase safe from Man A
>Breaking the vase is a much easier task, Man A only has to interfere with the balance for even a second and he wins.
>Man B is not only responsible for protecting the vase and other vases in the room as a secondary option, also responsible for a baby dragon not falling off the clouds due to his non-winged form not allowing him to stay on clouds and several other factors that severly challenge Man B from the very start.
Overall the point is that this is not an isolated Magic Duel and no variable control automatically makes this information void.
btfo
[1]of[?]
>>26882657
Second, people often bring up that Twilight cannot self levitate and Starlight can. For this I will personally say DYEWTS?
Some sources that btfo this meme that needs to die.
MLP:FIM Season 3 Episode 5: Magic Duel
Midway throught he episode Twilight is seen self levitating slightly above the surface of a body of water while rotating 3 smaller bodies of water simultaneously.
MLP:FIM Season 3 Episode 2: The Crystal Empire Part 2
Midway through the episode Twilight stops herself from falling down a flight of stairs by self levitating.
Many other times she has proven that not only can she self levitate, but that she can do it on command and while doing many other complex tasks and does not need to prepare for it.
btfo
Third, some say that the only reason Twilight was taken as a student was because she had vast untapped potential in magic that needed to be guided and thus... student. Starlight becoming Twilights student does not mean the same thing, it has been clearly stated in the Season 6 Premier that she is to be taught in the ways of Friendship and not in any way due to any kind of untapped potential in magic. They fought to a stalemate even though as I stated earlier that Twilight was tasked with much more complex goals.
btfo
[2]of[8ish?]
>>26882657
Fourth, (and this one is a good one that Shimmerfags pull out as a last resort) Starlight was able to travel back in time using Starswirls time travel spell and Twilight did not know how and thus Starlight is obviously the better magic user in every way. You seem to forget what specialization is and what Starlight said to Twilight in their next encounter several minutes later. "It wasn't difficult to change Starswirls spell, he'd already done the hard part". This not only proves that Starlight is not as proficient a magician as previously thought, but what she says right after it gives the reason why Starswirl himself was not able to do the same thing, "but figuring out I could use the map to go to any time or place and pull you along with me, I even impressed myself with that." Starswirl never had access to this map in Twilights Throne Room and thus could not modify the spell the same way Starlight did.
Some may also bring up the fact that Starlight encased Twilight in clear stone but neglect the fact that when this happened Twilight was not expecting it, however Twilight managed to encase Starlight in the exact same stone WHEN she was expecting it.
[3]of[7]
>>26882657I know I'm wall texting but I don't really have time to make it pretty and I have to sleep soon so I'm going to make this quick.
Fifth and Final, the greatest and freshest arguement hot off the press! Is that Sunburst was able to repair the Crystal Heart in the second part of the Season 6 Premiere when Twilight was not able to and thus he is better at magic in every way. This is an isolated incident and there is no further proof that he is better at magic than Twilight, simply more knowledgeable about that particular case. Historically some of the greatest scientists knew very little outiside there respective fields and this is one such case. I CAN PROVE IT TO YOU.
It is mentioned not only in the First half and second half of the season six premier, but was mentioned before in the finale of Season 5 that Sunburst went to magic school and was upset that he was not able to perform magic that he could read about and thus he became a full neckbeard like the people who are glimmerfagging this board since the premiere and funposting all over the place like some kind of bad joke.
btfo
But I digress, psh. Nothing personel kid. *Sheaths Katana* *Teleports away*
THIS CONCLUDES THE MILITARY GRADE DAMAGE CONTROL
>>26897415
>>26897434
>>26897462
>>26897480
I like your style, but you skipped post #3, which completely invalidates your argument.
>>26897682
#REKTICUTED
>>26882657
I've honestly given up on making sense of this show
>>26897480
so, why didn't Twilight modify the spell?
she clearly had the map there.
>>26897935
Why didn't they fly on the eagles into mordor?
>>26898026
I'm not saying that she should have done it right away, it was enough with actually trying to do it.
>>26898026
because theyre not muslims.
>>26895261
Tried to.
hits young RD instead.
>>26897415
>>26897434
>>26897462
>>26897480
Meganekko Twi is best TwiAlso when she's in a tight leather miniskirt, and stockings
>>26897415
>Man C enters the room, takes the vase, and leaves the room. He has spoiled Man A's fun, and your analogy
>>26883082
Once there is a 2nd legendary super saiyan, people stop being surprised when they keep showing up.
>>26898393
She gets Glimmy too, it's in this webm >>26892339
>>26897415
>>26897434
>>26897462
>>26897480
>Defending Twilights honor
>Having this much knowledge about the show
>Clear and concise sources and an explanation accompanying each one relating it to the argument.
I like you, feel free to come over to my house anytime and fuck my Twi tulpa
>>26899070
you were doing well until the cuck part
>>26899082
Truly an Intellectual
>>26882657
He doesn't know more than twilight, but he's really good at knowing WHERE to find stuff, which makes him a good sorcerer as long as theres a huge library around
Twilight needs to care and shit. Don't do the cooking by the book.
>>26897415
Have the baby dragon incinerate the man
Have the baby dragon curl himself as a ball and use him as a projectile
>>26897480
No one is saying that Sunburst is more talented in magic you fucking autist only that he is more knowledgeable.
>>26900569
No need to be rude. Hes only damage controlling for his waifu.
You gotta see where hes coming from.
>>26897480
Sunburst probably has no friends and now that he spends ALL of his time just researching magic gives a good reason to why he is more knowledgeable.
>>26900584
Look I am a Twifag and I actually AGREE that she is still better than Starlight at casting and is more knowledgeable
But I think it is humbling to have a unicorn that has a far better understanding at magical theory and probably knows more spells than her even if he sucks at casting.
It shows why he would be a far better teacher than Twilight would.
>>26900627
I think you got the wrong anon familia home fries butter cheesed pizza.
I was saying no need to call him a 'fucking autist' sinces hes trying to white knight his beloved waifu.
I am also a twifag familia home fries butter cheese pizza on a delectable pretzel stick, i was the first one in the thread to say so.
