Alright, real talk: it took the CMC five seasons to get their marks. What would they have to do with Spike in S6 for him to become a decent character again? Being put on a bus/written off isn't an option.Personally I think a lot of the hatred of his character is a meme and even if he had a great episode that had a lot of development for him people would pretend to hate it because you just do that with Spike and his episodes for some reason.
>>25852896
There are many different reasons why some people hate Spike. That's just the way things are. Some people hate Rainbow Dash, others hate Applejack. There's really no logic behind it, it's mostly a gut feeling for these people. Personally, I think Spike is cute but I wish the episodes he got weren't done by the worst writers.
>>25852896
You can't fix him, he was never done right in the first place.
He shouldn't have been a 'baby' dragon. It just limits him too much and relegates him, for the most part, to idiot little buddy laughing-track territory. We've already always had the CMC for "l'il scamps' characters.
Spike should have older. Older than Twilight, even, but not a full grown dragon. Like a dragon teen, only without the retarded design of that teen dragon episode he had. He should have been the mentor-on-hand that Celestia sent with Twilight. He's always been best when he has played the calmer, voice-of-reason guy to Twilight's adorkable / sarcastic / prone-to-act-too-quick excite-ableness. Why not have his design match?
>>25852896
Have him grow up.
Have him grow wings.
Have him find out more about his ancestry.
Have him be son of the Dragon King.
Have him settle up his relationship with Rarity and get over his crush.
Have him either be respected or feared by ponies because he's a fucking dragon.
Have him be developed.
>>25853040
How about they just physically age him up? Would that fix stuff?
>>25853110
He'd just be a baby in an older body, so not really.
>>25853065
I figured that they were going to pull something about him being dragon royalty eventually...
>>25853128
He's not an infant where he is now. He's a young teen at this point. He should have a teenage dragon body.
>>25853138
Dragons live to thousands years, so their bodies take longer to develop. He'll probably be a teen by the time the mane 6 die from old age.
Any chance of a male character getting developed?
>>25853145
Nope.
>>25853143
Explain how he grew from a hatchling to where he is now in the span of like a decade and a half.
>>25853150
You cheeky bugger.
>>25853150
Why not?
>>25853194
Because all male characters are secondary or even tertiary characters and those do not get (much) development.
>>25853206
But males should get development, so it'll be fair.
>>25853040
Spike being the way he was was just a tradition for the franchise.
>>25853225
The show doesn't care about "fair". That's not how writing for a show works. The female secondary characters also get little development (Celestia...)
>>25853266
But shouldn't the males get development?
>>25853155
Not that anon, but it happened for the plot. I know it's not the answer you wanted, but what else were they going to do, have twilight carrying around a still baby Spike?
At this point I don't see how they can make Spike older unless they pull a Naruto. That would probably only serve to piss off and divide the fans even more than the whole princess twilight fiasco.
Just my opinion senpai.
>>25853269
Only if they are important to the show as a whole.
>>25853286
I've seen people practically begging for Spike to get wings and get older. It's one of the things where people wouldn't care how it was done, just as long as it got the character out of a rut.
>>25853302
But why do people want Spike to get wings so badly?
So he can fly away and escape being Twilight's slave?
>>25853326
It's something. Anything. It's just a way that gives him more story ideas. Anything to make him more appealing.
>>25853374
To make him more appealing, just stop letting him get on-screen, start playing the idiot music and make him fumble and expect us to laugh at that. It was never funny, it never will be funny.
>>25853302
Okay, Spike getting wings would accomplish what exactly? Even if they give him wings, which I don't remember at the moment if he had them during his greed growing phase, you know the writers would make a complete joke out of him while he learned to fly.
But move past that. He now knows how to fly. He can follow Twilight, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershy.if she would ever fly anywhere a great distance awayWhat kind of episode can they write about that? An episode where he wants to leave the show and travel the world? That's just writing him off as dead, so that's no good for Spikefags.
You could go down the dragon king son route as it was never mentioned by Celestia where exactly she got those dragon eggs.At least I don't recall that happening eitherThe episode revolves around Spike not knowing if he will stay with his Dragon family or return to Ponyville to Twilight? Would the message of the episode be that regardless of who you choose to stay with they will both love you?Sounds like a divorce thing to me actually
I don't know man, I'm not exactly a Spikefag, but the way they've written him so far makes him more a joke than he should be. What ideas would pitch to improve his character?Perhaps have him get over his crush on Rarity? That would be some character progression, but then we'd hear the incessant whining of Sparityfags the world over
>>25853569
Spike should get a new love interest his age and lose his crush on Rarity, and it should make Rarity jelly. Super cliche, but could be fun if handled correctly.
But you pretty much NEED to introduce a new character for this.
Otherwise, just a nice slice of life episode with just Twilight and Spike. Works less well now that we no longer have the cozy treebrary.
>>25853644
I could see it happening, but again it'd require a bit of a time jump. It took five seasons for the cmc to finally get their cutie marks after all. I can see Rarity being jealous, but at the same time she doesn't show any real feelings for him.I don't think she sees him as anything more as a friend
Or you can introduce a new character and have a relationship build over the course of the season(s).
I can't think how a slice of life episode would do anything for him. Writers just seem to hate him. Remember his pet phoenix? Perhaps an episode where Peewee returns to Spike? There's a possible episode there, but I'm not sure how you'd make it work.
>>25853130
He's already pony royalty and hero of the Crystal Empire
>>25853569
Honestly, Canterlot Boutique showed that these characters have their cake and eat it too. He could probably go see his dragon king and queen father and mother any time he wanted in addition to being a dragon prince living among the ponies.
>>25853644
>>25853855
Doesn't work. Pic related.
>>25854247
I don't bother with the comics so I've no idea what that picture is.Regardless of whether they are canon or not which is an argument for another place and another anon who won't be me because I can't be arsed to argue that shit
>>25852896
>What would they have to do with Spike in S6 for him to become a decent character again?
Mainly don't treat him like a bumbling sidekick. He's intelligent. He's efficient. He's Twilight's right hoof. The best portrayals remember this. Whereas Princess Spike or Spike at Your Service make him a fool and an idiot. If you give him an S6 episode, let him use his head. Don't give us "comedy relief" Spike for twenty-two minutes.
>>25854311
It's one writer's attempt to get rid of Sparity that in the context of the writer's explanations implies that pedophilia is only bad when it's interracial.
>>25854532
He is literally at Twilight's right hoof with his throne next to hers. Hopefully after the reaction of Princess Spike they were able to do S6 a bit differently.
>>25854572
So a writer literally made the arc to get rid of sparity and then explained the reasoning behind it was that pedophilia is only bad when it's interracial? Like the writer came out and admitted this or was that what the comic fans took as the intended message?
>>25854613
Well he said that Sparity was creepy because of age, but then presented a dragoness character older than Spike that was clearly supposed to be a love interest. The implication was that it really wasn't the age thing that upset him as much as the race thing.
>>25854683
I see. Hopefully he won't have input into any future episodes. They still should get Spike over Rarity if only to serve as character growth.
>>25854810
Oh, he's just the dumbshit on the IDW staff. He can't touch the show.
>>25854840
Thank fuck for small mercies then. What do you think about having a Peewee episode? They literally gave Spike a pet and then took it away off screen.
>>25854532
I agree. Spike at this point is a joke character and will have little to no growth so long as this continues.
>>25854891
I don't know. Might have been a good thing considering he would have raised it to be a mess just like him.
They could start with not playing dumb music every time he walks into a scene and always going for the easy joke. At this point it's just lazy, honestly. No way does anyone find it funny.
He should become a guardian of Equestria, that's what has been building up for a while.
>>25855061
That's an idea, but how would you build up to this?
>>25855091
its already been built up
>>25855102
Are you referring to Princess Spike? Or something from the comic?
>>25855128
>>25855102
Equestria Games.
>>25855167
Power Ponies
>>25855167
I'll have to watch these again, but that was the time he used his fire breath to melt a bunch of ice?
>>25855184
I thought that happened inside a comic book? Not the IDW comic, but a comic from the cartoon.
>>25855214
It was still a learning experience for Spike, also Crystal Empire.
>>25855214
Yes it was, it was the second time he saved the Crystal Empire.
>>25855370
>>25855384
Ah yes. Well it was interesting to have a civil conversation Anonymous. As said previously I'm no Spikefag, but I do agree they need to stop portraying him as a village idiot if we're to ever take him seriously as opposed to the village idiot.
Later Anons.
Honestly I hate Spike because the writers do. He fucking sucks most of the time.
>>25855997
He doesn't have to.
Remove Neal
>>25852896
To make him a good character either declare everything after the first season or two a dream or give him a hero's death. I see no other options.
To make him a decent character you could shove him way into the background and give him a few lines from time to time that don't suck.
>>25856318
Neal really has a shitty attitude too.
>>25856079
You're right but he's been a butt monkey for so long I can't muster enough fucks to give about him, so hating him is the only way I can enjoy his presence.
>>25856768
But he did good stuff in S4.
Imagine if Spike suddenly became super competent and witty again. It wouldn't make sense. It would be like if Fluttershy started behaving like Rainbow Dash.
Characterization takes time. Maybe if he disappears for a season?
>>25856827
>suddenly became
Who saved the Crystal Empire twice again?
>>25856840
No one? Celestia and Luna saved it the first time, and a large combination of people saved it the second time, none of who was Celestia or Luna.
>>25856929
Spike saved it from Sombra and he saved the Equestria Games. Regardless of what you think or what judgment you pass about his involvement, the point is that the crystal ponies see him as their hero. He is the one with the flowery title, not Celestia, Luna, or any of the M6.
>>25856991
The question isn't what other characters think of Spike, it's what the audience thinks of him. What he did at the games to the giant ice cube was impressive, but it wasn't really enough to make him a good character by itself. His part in defeating Sombra was also nice, if not as impressive, and it actually was important (the giant ice cube landing in the middle of the field would have disrupted the games, but certainly not destroyed the empire). But his day to day portrayal seems to be more sad than anything else.
>>25853065
How about an epsiode where the map sends Twilight and Rarity to the dragon homeland? They bring Spike along and they can work out all the stuff you pointed out.
>>25857086
It could have hurt thousands of ponies if that ice fell on the stadium.
A lot of S4 was focused on his self doubt. Unfortunately we never got something in S5 where he used the confidence you'd think something like the Games would have given him.
>>25857087
I'd be more up for Spike being called in some way. IDK how but just somehow.
>>25857149
>>25857149
That's why suggested Twilight and Rarity, they are the most important people in Spike's life. By sending them to the dragon homeland, the map would actually be sending Spike.
>>25857299
I just think the map should find some way to directly call him.
>>25853855
You guys have no imagination, and apparently the show writers don't either.
>>25857314
>>25857413
>>25857314
It would be kinda werid, for one thing Spike has no cutie mark to call. Plus if the map directly called him, both he and the audience would automatically recognize how odd it is and the importance of the implication. Spike's big episode should be done in a nice subtle way.
>>25853855
>Or you can introduce a new character and have a relationship build over the course of the season(s).
Why can't they do this? It'd nicely solve lots of his problems.
>>25857460
You know they'd try to force it in one episode.
>>25857413
I'm all ears with your suggestions Anonymous.
>>25857442
I realized how important Crusaders of the Lost Mark was from the cold open, but that didn't make the episode any less for me. I just worry it would be a waste of Spike feeling useless again.
>>25856729
You're a autist, there's plenty of time to redeem character, just start writing him better, then the big stuff comes later
>>25852896
>become a decent character again
He already is one of the most consistently-written characters in the show, and there is literally nothing wrong with how he as a character is written. Treatment of him in episodes *can* be bad, but anyone who claims to like Spike yet want his characterization to change to fit in to their ideals don't actually like the character or only like a specific trait that was shown and latch on to wanting that to be the exclusively defining thing about the character.
No one cares
>>25857837
>Claims that there's nothing wrong with him as written
>Goes on to say treatment of him can be bad
If many, many, MANY people dislike a character as is, maybe changing him or at least how he is treated isn't a bad thing.
>>25857911
>Claims there's nothing wrong with him as a character
>how he's treated in the plot= character
I'm capable of differentiating character and story, are you?
>If enough people like/dislike thing, then obviously they are right
That's bandwagon argument and is in no way indicative of the quality of him as a character.
>>25857959
Why is treatment of him in episodes so poor?
>>25857837
Well, he's pretty much exclusively defined by one or two traits "consistently" and I see people asking for him to actually be a character rather than a sad sack physical comedy sponge that at times (Princess Spike) gets writing so shitty you can't help but thing someone has it out for him.
>>25857973
Larson admitted himself at a couple panels that writing situations for Spike is difficult because there's not much they can really do with him. Partly because, and I think this was especially what Larson meant, he is technically a "baby character" so there isn't much they'd really be allowed to do with him, but I also think another reason is everything about his character has already been set up including his relationships with most of the other characters so he's just sort of deadlocked in his support role.
>>25858011
Spike as a character was relatively well-written in PS because he showcased his determination to help out and his weakness to greed or power that would have been something good to work with in showcasing his ability to overcome his weakness through his dedication.
The actual worst part of that episode was the story itself, not the character, because shit happened that had no reason to happen for plot reasons.
Spike is a fine example of how Flanderization will kill /mlp/.
>>25858074
I mean *MLP:FiM.
/mlp/ is already dead.
You can't fix Spike. Or rather, the writers can't fix Spike. It's not that he as a character is unfixable, it's just that the team is incompetent.
They fucked up Twilight's big status-quo change, giving us a flashy new castle and a pair of wings. They fucked up the CMC, giving them asstats that are gaudy in design and do nothing to develop the CMC as characters.
I don't want them to touch Spike. They'll just fuck him up, too.
>>25858067
Well, they're the ones in control. They could do whatever they wanted. Break a wall, change a status quo, do anything! It's not like Hasbro wants to sell an actual Princess Spike toy every year and they're limited. I doubt they give a fuck, and would probably support anything the writers wanted within reason.
Spike actually being decently written in Princess Spike only made the story even shittier because it's like it wanted you to see a version of Spike that we weren't being shown. Like, that the writer of the episode genuinely thinks the things Spike did deserved what he got or something. The disconnect was that the world just seemed like it was attacking Spike for practically nothing.
I talked about this a few days ago, but Spike is simply under-developed because Hasbro dun goofed on the anatomical aspects of dragons in Equestria.
To be fair, Spike is easily, EASILY the most developable character in the series, the only one coming close being Celestia. The downside is, to properly do Spike's development as a main character rather than just locking him in maturity stasis, they'd have to resolve his crush on Rarity one way or another, and then deal with the teenage angst that inevitably follows. A bit too deep for the show's target audience, and could actually end up with Spike being lost as a main character.
He could end up leaving town entirely, not able to deal with the load of having to constantly suppress his physical self just to keep those around him safe. It'd be cool, but kind of sad as well.
>>25858284
The entire idea for Spike moving on character wise is going to involve a lot of teenage angst, and this was even admitted by the director of the show. Maybe they don't think that would be appealing.
I doubt it would be that dark, though. One of the lessons learned from Dragon Quest for a lot of the staff is that the implications can be pretty bad if you don't add in a little bit of light in your dark story. For example: I don't think that they'd ever imply that Spike's parents are dead. If anything I think they'd go for that he finds them and that they're royalty or something.
I just kind of want an explanation of what makes Spike physically different from a normal dragon and if he's special or what.
>>25858344
Well, you can see that just by watching Secret of My Excess and comparing it to the adult dragons during the dragon migration.
Spike 1) has no wings, and 2) is almost 25% larger than any other canon dragon. Either he's a subspecies, a mutant, or a higher member of an undescribed draconian hierarchy. Either way, his story could be very presentable if done correctly.
>>25858380
Exactly. We've never had this explored in depth and it would be interesting to see it covered.
>>25858380
It could be legitimately amazing if Spike was shown to be some sort of Alpha dragon, and was charged with the responsibility of protecting dragons in Equestria, then he crosses paths every 5-10 episodes with Twilight and is given a similar role to his Buffy namesake.
>>25858437
Again, just make him the soon to be dragon king or something.
>>25858513
I wasn't aiming at King, since that would just be tacky. Nobody, not even myself, wants to see Spike become legitimate royalty. It's an old, overused, Mary-sue-ish thing to do.
Having him become a guardian of his people, though, one who can tap into his strengths but still maintain the goodness taught to him by Twilight, that could be good. I guess Buffy Spike wasn't the best comparison there.
He'd end up more like an MLP version of Blade.
>>25858548
You'd be missing out a part of his character if he didn't serve as some sort of living example of a new unity between dragons and ponies. I'm not saying being dragon royalty would be good, I'm just saying that since Spike is obviously pretty special among ponies I think a leadership role among dragons is obvious. Likely in the way you mentioned.
>>25858574
See, now you're speaking my language. If Spike were to become some sort of peacekeeper between ponies and dragons, while resolving the problems of said dragons that have nothing or little to do with ponies as well, he could become awesome very fast.
Think about it: Spike becomes a legend after years of travel, his exploits becoming spoken of in the fashion of Chuck Norris.
They say he put down an entire griffon takeover of a nursing mountain by simply roaring the attackers off of the cliff face. He negotiated a peace between the sand dragons of western Equestria and the rustlers of Appleoosa by staring down both parties until they agreed out of sheer terror.
Or, maybe he's just an occaisional consultant for Celestia, solving his people's problems on the side and only really fighting when Celestia wants to go a few rounds with someone who won't be instantly fried whenever she uses any magic.
I personally prefer the first one and may even green text about it in the future if this thread is still alive, but either one could present itself as very well done and cool, if a bit corny.
>>25858795
I figured he'd act as a diplomat to help integrate dragons into a functional relationship with ponies. In the EU, this was something that Luna managed to do, she talked to dragons and other creatures and was respected by them. So much so that they were willing to fight a magical creature attacking Ponyville for her in the EU.
So yeah, maybe if Spike mentioned Luna rather than Celestia dragons would be more kind to him.
>>25858548
He is Royalty tho, Faust mentioned Celestia took care of Spike a lot after he was hatched cause Twilight was still a little filly, so we have Twilight who's now a Princess who's practically Spike's older non blood(or is she) older Sister, Shiny is a Prince and now married and techincally his Stepbrother and Celestia is Spike's technicall Stepmother, so he's pretty much royalty and don't forget he's practically a Knight according to the ponies of the Crystal Empire
>>25858890
Royalty to ponies, he might be it to dragons too.
>>25852896
He kinda is a decent character. Some episodes use him as a mouthpiece or a joke character just like the other mane6. Other episodes have him saying a witty line, or playing the dutiful but cynical assistant.
I don't like projection-fags thinking that he needs to be anything more.
The problem is, his own dedicated episodes use him as a joke and playing support shows the better side of him. Which was the opposite of S3-S4 Pinkie Pie, another character that got fucked over. Part of the "problem" is the target demographic and part of it is a lack of focus from the writers. Since they also have to worry about the CMC and Discord as well as Spike.
There are worse things in life. Spike to me is just that dragon that's a boi in a grill's worl.
>>25859036
Just don't write him as a joke, then? If you wouldn't write a pony doing it, barring the obvious physical exceptions, don't write Spike doing it.
