Wasn't it already established that the past cannot be changed with time travel?
>>25607572
Depends on the kind of time travel we're talking about here.
She changed the spell. She said so. Twilight even said you can't do that, and Glimmer said "yea I can!"
It's heavily implied Glimmer is incredibly good with magic. Maybe even better than Twilight.
>>25607592
This.
Time travel via magic is a whole different ball game.
>>25607597
I honestly think it was just lazy writing.for plot convenience and nothing more.
>>25607572
In the episode with time travel, twilight clearly did change the past. She would have never gone crazy and solid snake'd her way into the castle library if future twilight hadn't gone back in time to warn herself about time travel.
>>25607597
She said it was easy because Starswirl did all the work and she used the cutie map.
>>25607597
The base of the spell was still the one twilight already used, and starlight said the hard part (which i'm guessing is actually going back to time) was already done by starswhirl. So I'm guessing all she changed was the timing
>>25607572
Starlight did say she changed the spell, and actually the mechanics of time travel in each episode are different and both work.
Twilight's spell in S2 sent her back earlier in her own timeline. It was one deterministic loop, nothing was ever going to change.
This one, however, involves the creation of a split timeline. There is an alternate dimension created by each use of the spell. She's still not
changing her own present in any way.
Honestly, these episodes are both really good treatments of time travel, I usually get triggered to shit by time travel plots but these both got it right.
>>25607616
Actually no. the past was already effected before twilight knew she would go back in time in a week.
By comparison, if starlight were to change the past, the whole show wouldn't have happened in the first place
Fuck canon
>>25607631
So, if spike didn't touch the scroll, nothing would have happened besides starlight disappearing?
Then why would twilight want to stop starlight from changing the past and not reverse engineer the scroll to go back to her own timeline?
>>25607631
Because it was like in BTTF.
BTTF is law when you talk about time traveling.
>>25607666
Yeah, nothing would have happened.
The reason Twilight went after her is because she didn't realise how the time travel mechanics worked and that the scroll was incapable of altering the original timeline. Not sure either of them realised that.
>>25607761
Nah, haven't seen it in a while but as I remember BTTF has some problems with it. For example, I remember it having people just fading out of existence as a result of stuff in the past which isn't how it'd work. Also, I don't think it's made clear whether BTTF runs on single or alternate timelines exclusively. Some stuff in it indicates one, some indicates the other, but unless you're using separate time travel mechanics, like MLP does with its different spells but BTTF with its single car presumably doesn't, you need to pick one or it doesn't work.
Wasn't it already established that glimmerface is best meme?
My past does not define me, cause my past is not today!
bump for time travel autism
Ultimately, she never changed the past. She tried to but at the end of the day, the "true" present would be the real one we already knew about, because the past that prevailed conforms to what happened too. When you think about it, it's literally the same outcome as with future twilight,
>>25607572
Superseded by the fact that anything can be retconned.
>>25607616
No. Rather Twilight created a time loop.
Her future self traveled back in time wanting to tell her past selfshe should calm her tits and not go crazy. She failed to deliver the message.
Past Twilight went paranoid thought she must do something specific to prevent some catastrophe and in doing so set events in motion that result in her ending up as hurt as she is and coming up with the idea that a time spell is needed.
When nothign happens and Pinkie finds the spell, she travels back, becomes this way future Twilight who wanted to warn her and it is only after she comes back she realizes she set herself up for all of that to happen.
If Twilight truly would have wanted to change the past, she shouldn't have traveled back in time at all, preventing the time loop from being created in the first place.
That would have also probably created a paradox and destroyed the universe, but who cares.
As for the finale, it felt more as if Twilight jumped between alternate realities than timelines.
Cause changing ONE event only in the past should only result in an effect chain that creates one alternate timeline.
As the one event was the prevention of the rainboom and nothing else (the timeline should have been only different/worse at the second preventing if Starlight did something that prevented the rainboom in an even bigger way, like kill RD and therefore affecting everything Dash would ever do in the life of others interatcing with her), Twilight should have always come back to only one alternate present. Not different ones each time.
But hey, that is where magic may come into play.
Otherwise, it was just a cheap excuse to create alternate scenarios where the bad guys won and people could write fanfics about
>>25607572
Time travel is a fickle subject because it's all theory based.
The real question is the only timeline that should have existed was Nightmare Moon and nothing else.
>>25607659
Fuck Trump
>>25607572
it wasn't really, the whole shindig rolled up nicely back to normal timeline.
It was just an extended time loop.
>>25609829
Because Discord wouldn't push NM's shit in if he ever came out and because Celestia can't just come up with an alternate way to beat her sister?
>>25607572
actually it can be very easily explained and it happened to be my headcanon for the first time travel episode, because without another explanation the stable timeloop wouldn't have made sense.
Basically, what we saw was the third or fourth time travel twilight did, there was a first time travel that was completely different from the others.
It basically went like this:
In the first timeline, Cerberus left the gates, the damn flooded, pinkies mane was uncut thus her pinkie sense was affected and a bunch of other stuff happend all in the same week which resulted in several disasters. Twilight realized the loss was too big and thus consulted Celestia about finding a spell to fix this. Eventually she found the time travel spell and went back one week to fix this.
But twilight wasn't able to properly tell the explanation to her past self, causing her past self to freak out, even without looking like Solid snake. Thus second timeline twilight did almost everything what we saw in the episode happening, including becoming solid snake.
In the end she figured, her future self probably was trying to warn her about not freaking out(which she assumed wrong) and thus went back in time to tell her past self that message
and THEN the stable timeloop was created by those events.
>>25610041
So, we are ruining the already stable and explainable episode to justify the problem episode?
>>25610154
the previous episode wasn't stable and explainable, how did twilight know where to find the timetravel spell? It was only told her from future twilight.
Even disregarding that information that came out of nowhere, there had to be a "first time" which wasn't part of the stable time loop, it doesn't make sense that past-twilight HAD TO encounter future twilight.
If it had been an event that could have happened just as well without future twilights interference, then yeah, one could close an eye on that stable time loop. (for exmaple if twilight tripped in the past which caused something to happen to make her want to go to the past to make her trip as well without her knowing it was a future self)
meaning my explanation didn't ruin anything, it explained BOTH the previous episode alone AND the connection to the time travel of the newest episode.
>>25609961
NMM just probably buried the Disord statue, or threw him in a volcano or something
The question is how LUNA was there in the Discord timeline?
>>25610272
>the previous episode wasn't stable and explainable, how did twilight know where to find the timetravel spell? It was only told her from future twilight.
Yes that's how a time loop works.
>Even disregarding that information that came out of nowhere, there had to be a "first time" which wasn't part of the stable time loop, it doesn't make sense that past-twilight HAD TO encounter future twilight.
Nothing that has anything to do with time travel makes sense because:
1) We never seen anything remotely like it in real life so we don't know how it works
2) We don't even know if it's possible. exactly because of the paradoxes above
This is kinda like the chicken egg problem, Unfortunately I'm really shit at explaining myself but here goes.
Assuming there is just one timeline and no other universe, no one thing can exist in two places at the same time. However, a future version of someone is an entirely different thing than their past version. Imagine timeline to be a road and your future and present forms as different cars.
Normally, the car is in autopilot mode and you can't see any other car that isn't immediately next to you. So you can't see your past self nor your future self. But if your future self figures out a way to bypass the autopilot mode and put the car in reverse, he can come exactly next to your present self. which means both your present and future selves can see each other. but your future self stops existing in the future (it's rightful position on the road) until it decides to go back there. Now the thing is, the future car can't possibly do anything to the present car because if he had done that, he would have already seen it happen while he was still in the present form.
Not sure if you got it or not, but that's what happened in the past episode.
>>25610326
Celestia probably found a way to beat her shit
If "the past cannot be changed" was already established, then this is a different spell. What this spell does is create a discrete alternate universe, each time its backwards component is cast. Afterward, when Glimmeris convinced to stop her plan,the timeline is returned back to what it originally was, but it is _still_ a discrete alternate universe - a direct copy.
>>25610460
except starlight herself states that this is the same spell that was made by starswirl the bearded. she just modified it a little to get to the correct time, and I suspect with the help of the map, the correct place
>>25610420
just because it never happened in reality doesn't mean you can just explain shit away with "it's magic, i ain't gonna explain shit"
there is a constant logic error that you can't just wish away because you think it sounds cool.
And no, stable time loops do NOT mean that something can just happen out of nowhere because "lol timetravel", many timeloops in past fictions have been explained with scenarios like the one i put forth. Stable time loop just means there is a loop, it says nothign about how it came (or not) to be.
>Assuming there is just one timeline and no other universe
okay, we don't know this is what happens in My little pony timetravel, but okay
>o one thing can exist in two places at the same time. However, a future version of someone is an entirely different thing than their past version.
right
now your car analogy is wrong, because once future-car goes backwards beside present-car, the road/cars have been changed. As you yourself said, future and past versions are different cars, they are not the same. Meaning future car CAN manipulate present car, because they are not the same as you yourself said.
>>25610486
>she just modified it a little
Indeed!
I think the spell did the same thing Twilight did by accident in Magical Mystery Cure, only on a global scale instead of a few discrete ponies.
The one universe was forcefully made to change shape, there were no alternate worlds.
>>25610506
>just because it never happened in reality doesn't mean you can just explain shit away with "it's magic, i ain't gonna explain shit"
When did I ever use the word "magic" in my post? I have forgot to mention the thing about finding the scroll in the first place.
You are right, Twilight had no way of knowing the location of the scroll in the first place and that is a paradox made by the writers. They should have explained it by having past twilight finding it on her own without relying on the future twilight to tell her.
>now your car analogy is wrong, because once future-car goes backwards beside present-car, the road/cars have been changed. As you yourself said, future and past versions are different cars, they are not the same. Meaning future car CAN manipulate present car, because they are not the same as you yourself said.
Yes. except the presence of future car depends on the past car going the way it has already gone in the future car's perspective. because if it goes any other way, then the future car would already have memories of the newer timeline, not the old ones.
>>25610533
I wouldn't call changing a spell into working with multiverses instead of one, a 'little modification'
>>25610546
>They should have explained it by having past twilight finding it on her own without relying on the future twilight to tell her.
to fit your idea, however the writers didn't do that. Instead of assuming they fucked up, how about accepting my explanation (or another one if you find one) that explains it wihtout assuming the writers made a mistake?
>When did I ever use the word "magic" in my post?
are you new to the internet? "It's magic, i ain't gonna explain shit" is a meme as old as time. (pun intended)
>except the presence of future car depends on the past car going the way it has
no it does not, as you said, the future car is a different car. It did went the same way the current past-car went, but it's a different one now.
Your analogy makes no sense the way you want to be.
Also sorry, i have to go, i wish i could go into more depth on how much your analogy and idea of timetravel makes absolutely no god damn sense whatsoever
But i hope you will reread what i wrote and come to the conclusion yourself
>>25610546
>I wouldn't call changing a spell into working with multiverses instead of one, a 'little modification'Of course you wouldn't.
>>25610560
You are right. My explanation is shit. but I still believe the multiverse theory is shit too because in the multiverse theory due to other unexplained things that I'm not gonna bother with as you are going and I don't feel like creating a multiparagraph post again
>>25610455
Then why she didn't find a way in the Nightmare Moon timeline?
>>25610720
Her way was probably alot less guaranteed compared to Twilight and pals as the elements. That or NM in that timeline actually came up with a good plan.
>>25610720
Because Glimmer didn't just change the spell, she modified it to use the table which is connected to all of Equestria.
Look at the order of the universes:
Sombra. Things are bad, but Equestria still stands and Celestial still leads it. Presumably the Tree of Harmony was able to fix it so that NMM and Chrysalis were taken care of, but it couldn't stop
Sombra.
The next time, Equestria has fallen, but some resistance remains. Harmony was able to fix NMM, but Chrysalis won. We've lost a step. The table is also in worse condition, it was working perfectly in the first timeline, now it is faded.
Third timeline, NMM has won. The table has lost two steps and is dark. Equestria has fallen, the elements are servants of evil, there is no hope for a future.
In subsequent timelines, everything is just fucked. Twilight and Glimmer have broken Harmony, and with it Equestria.
In the final timeline, the chairs aren't even there anymore, and the table is just a table with some bumps on it. Everyone is dead because the Life just quit working.
The main problem with my theory is that Discord World should have come third instead of NMM, but maybe the Tree of Harmony just has a special dislike of him, and so prioritized keeping him out of the picture for as long as it could.
>>25607572
No, Twilight was just a moron.
>>25610937
Perhaps it's because Discord is chaos, while NMM is "just" a different kind of order, still order.
>>25607572
Many worlds interpretation via a modified spell.
