Is Anselm's ontological argument sound?
>>8201071
No.
t.Catholic
>>8201071
I was stoned the other day and came up with a really watertight theological argument.
Starting from the premise that God is an omnipotent being, we can therefore conclude that even if God didn't exist he would be able to use his unlimited powers to make himself real.
>>8201094
>Starting from the premise that God is
you're begging the question.
>>8201094
Love it! Stealing this!
>>8201099
The fact that we can even conceive of an omnipotent being is sufficient proof there is one.
>>8201109
How?
Just because you can conceive something, it exists? Did you pull that out of your ass?
This isn't proof to nothing
>>8201109
I can conceive your corpse. Are you dead now, or did I make a clone of you that then died, and is now somewhere in the universe?
>>8201109
>The fact that we can even conceive of an omnipotent being is sufficient proof there is one.
sure, just don't call it an argument.
>>8201128
An omnipotent being's power makes no heed of pitiful human notions like existence or reality. At once, God exists, God doesn't exist, neither existence nor nonexistance and both at the same time
>>8201150
>An omnipotent being's power makes no heed of pitiful human notions like existence or reality
THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE AN OMNIPOTENT BEING FOR IT TO EXIST IN NON-EXISTENCE.
>>8201150
>i think incoherence sounds profound
cool
>>8201150
How do you know that?
>ontological arguments
>>8201159
What does it mean 'to be' for an entity that at once Is and Transcends Being?
>>8201185
Nothing, none of what you are saying means anything. Please answer what it means, if you can't comprehend God, then there is no Holy Spirit helping you, and you were not truly made in his image.
>>8201150
Well then why the fuck does it matter?
It's just a concept. A concept exist. Ok, it does.
All concepts exist.
How does it bring anything of value to anything?
>>8201198
Coincidentally, that's what the Holy Trinity is all about. God is seemingly paradoxical because he is beyond imperfect human logic.
>>8201206
So God is imperfect? Or are you created in his physical image? You can't have faith in something incomprehensible, because the concept means nothing to you. You believe in nothing, you are nothing, and your God is nothing to you. So what does that even mean?
>>8201215
I believe in nothing and everything. Belief is also beyond positive human logic.
>>8201094
Thologians began with the premise that god did not exist and used reason and logic to prove this to be untrue. You did it the wrong way round so it doesn't count
The ontological argument is pure semantics. Other than that, 'existence is not a predicate' or defining characteristic
Read Kant.
The only theologian worth his salt is aquinas and his 5 rules/ steps
>>8201220
>I believe in nothing and everything
So nothing, and also the universe exists.
So in the end our belief system is the exact same you just use some roundabout garbage to get there. Great man, whatever makes you happy.
>>8201232
Aquinas is just one in a very long line.
If you decide to get into it, it's a fascinating subject.
His five ways are incredibly complex and surprisingly coherent.
Most people don't get them, Hume for example got half of it completely wrong.
>>8201247
I'm know im going to delve deeper into his aesthetic principle because its pertinent to the works of joyce, whom i am reading now.
doubt im going to read the summa theologia though
>>8201071
No.
And if you have read enough of those arguments, you will be able to make that call without reading it.
>>8201140
christfags btfo
>>8201554
the modal argument? nah
there isn't a god, get over it faggots
>>8201232
>the day you realized Kant btfos most useless discussions
And I don't even like Kantianism.
>>8201215
You can't have faith in something incomprehensible, because the concept means nothing to you.
But you can. That's the whole point of faith, to take the leap into the unknown and into the uncertain.
My perfect waifu is necessarily perfect.
My perfect waifu wouldn't be perfect if she didn't exist.
Therefore my perfect waifu exists. See ya l8r virgins.
>>8201917
No, that is superstition.
Faith is to assume axioms are true. Like people being inherently compassionate. That is faith.
Believing whatever and not even understanding what that is and still spouting conclusions based on that is base superstition.
>>8201940
Faith isn't merely your personal concept of truth. He's right and you're wrong. Reconsider assuming this is true.
>>8201955
I'm guessing you are referring to the "spiritual experience".
Faith is not to be a spiritual plebian. The "leap into the unknown" is not about dogma or the feeling of relief one has when subscribing to them.
Faith is knowing what the unknown is, you are delving in. If you do not apply this practice, all you are left with is the "god of gaps".
And that is bourgeoise theology.
>>8201109
I can't conceive of a truly omnipotent being, and neither can you. The human mind doesn't do that.
>>8201940
Faith implies that it could be wrong and that regardless you still believe.
If you don't get that, it's okay.
>>8202020
And that implies you know what you could be wrong about.
And that is an axiom.
Now stop pretending you ever read anything substantial on the matter.
>>8202033
Your rejection of God as a transcendental being leaves the true nature of God untouched.
You're attacking the divine with the tools of men. Good luck.
>>8201094
>The essence of a nonexistent entity preeceeds its existence
>The essence of a nonexistent entity causes its existence
>Something from nothing
>Newton's second law of thermodynamics
Sounds about as sensible as Marxism
>>8202088
>>Something from nothing
that happens fairly often, learn some physics
>>8201928
underrated
>>8201071
It's valid. However, proving it either sound or unsound is impossible.
>>8202565
No, it doesn't.
>>8203183
The tomato IS a fruit, though
>>8203186
its literally not tho
>>8201109
No. And this is some really basic stuff- conceivability does not imply actuality.
>>8203285
>arguing with unironic Christian apologists
don't do it, it's a colossal waste of time
>>8203213
it literally is man
>>8203313
Butthurt euphoric detected.
>>8203333
checked
