What's up virgins. I'm about to start reading Anna Karenina for the first time and in Russian. What should I expect? Isn't it obsolete yet? Should I really read that?
>>8123618
>literature
>obsolete
Technology goes obsolete.
Art will die with the last human.
you're a faggot
>>8123634
I'm gonna fuck your mommy dead
>>8123631
but what's the point in reading literature? isn't it much better to read some pop science at least?
>>8123645
what's the point in pop science?
>>8123656
it's science you stupid! that's why you can have a computer now
>>8123658
So is it worth it or not?
C'mon, guys, step it up.
fucking help me to decide
>>8123695
I just finished reading it a few months ago. It's absolutely worth it.
>>8123775
Did you read it in English?
>>8123656
>he doesn't think mankind is badass for having walked on mars
>he doesn't avidly read NASA, Curiosity and Neil DeGrasse tweets
>he doesn't understand how awesome and badass space exploration is
>he doesn't respect astronauts more than his mother
>he doesn't hate his science teacher because she's boring
It's like, why come to the facebook page for "I fucking love science" if you're gonna post that?
>>8123790
I know this is satire and my jimmies are still rustled
It's a pretty good book, you'll probably enjoy it. The language used (in the Maude translation, at least) is beautiful. I don't care for Tolstoy's arrogance though, and all of the characters with the exception of Levin weren't really fleshed out to my satisfaction.
>>8123779
I did read it in English (the P&V translation).
>>8124150
So did I. Ill go with Maude or Bartlett on my next read.
As for OP, just watch out for the part where lenin confesses to kitty. He raped his sister. Read closely.
>>8124199
you stupid dumbfuck why did you spoil everything why
>>8123618
>I don't care for Tolstoy's arrogance though
Tolstoy's what? Give some fucking examples.
>>8123618
Love novel mixed with Tolstoy's ideas about peasants. Absolutely garbage. Don't waste your time on this.
>>8124655Levin jumps infront of a train because of guilt
>>8123801
>all of the characters with the exception of Levin weren't really fleshed out to my satisfaction.
I honestly can't believe I'm reading this.
>>8123618
somebody dies at the end of a train ;)
Pic is the only worth reading book by him.
>>8124703
Sorry, I just didn't like it that much.
>>8123618
this is a horrible book. Tolstoy using aristocratic romance to try to push a belated message of the safety of monogamy while taking the position of god within his own work, it's dull, and the only moment the reading is worthwhile is when Levin is cutting grass with the peasants. it's the only time when the words leap from the page with echoes of experience and thought, and not endless dull preaching.
>>8124941
>the only moment the reading is worthwhile is when Levin is cutting grass with the peasants. it's the only time when the words leap from the page with echoes of experience and thought, and not endless dull preaching.
This is a good observation, I felt the same way.
>>8124954
i think he would have been a fantastic journalist, something like that. his characters just felt like cardboard and unreal because that's what they were. nothing was ever passionate enough to draw me in. I still have to read War & Prance one of these days, but i'm not looking forward to his bullshit love for the french aristocracy. talk about hollow and dull ffs.
>>8124971
Hard to disagree with that, though I am looking forward to reading War and Peace here in a little while. Have you read Dostoevsky, and if so, what did you think of him in comparison to Tolstoy?
>>8124983
I prefer Dostoevsky, he kind of opened my mind to literature at a dark time for me. Tolstoy just feels like brittle old bones, and Dostojewskii has that stench of modern thought on his work, something that can't be confused for period musings. I guess I just think of Dostojewskii as human in a way tolstoy wasn't. Somewhere here someone posted Gorky's experience meeting Tolstoy, (i'm sure someone will help with that) and I just got the impression that Tolstoy was the earth and the trees and a rock on the ground, and Dostojewskii was the one throwing Tolstoy at some kids torturing a cat. Tolstoy was a thing, Dostojewskii was a man. and all the neuroses, weaknesses and shame that being a man brings with it.
>>8125006
I couldn't agree more. Which of his works do you like most and least?
>>8125008
I haven't read everything yet, but my favorite of his would have to be The Dream of a Ridiculous Man. for his longer works, it's cliche, but it's gonna have to be Karamazov. though i'm looking forward to Demons. you?
>>8125006
>Dostojewskii, :^)
>>8125008
I think Tolstoi's being treated too harshly in this thread though. His early works lack some honesty, he admits that himself in his confession, but his later works like The Death of Ivan Illyich are incredibly spiritual. The way light is, maybe too simple but spiritual none the less. It's no wonder Wittgenstein absolutely adored him.
I prefer Dostoevski overall though, All of his post-NFTU works are excellent, I think the Adolescent and the Possessed are especially underrated, they deal brilliantly with the post-morality world. I especially love the "becoming a Rothchild" idea in the former.
>>8124863
Tolstoy is perhaps the greatest writer ever when it comes to characterization. I'm reading the book right now and there's this character Veslovsky. He's a naive (therefore enthusiastic, but also annoying), simple and practical person. He's just a secondary character, yet is defined well and humanely in just a couple of chapters. More important characters are even deeper. See, for example, Karenin's behavior after his sincere generosity towards Anna and Vronsky is rewarded with abandonment and shame. He tries to ignore his problems by working more, even though nobody really cares about him and his political work anymore. When he looks at a young and strong chamberlain he thinks that "everything in the world is evil", because he's envious of the chamberlain. Once he was cold and hateable, but now we see that he's old, pathetic and pitiable. Tolstoy convincingly eroded his world and personality. If this isn't good characterization, I don't know what is.
>>8124941
Do you really think Tolstoy was promoting monogamy in the book? I feel like he promotes depth in relationships more than mere loyalty. Anna's first marriage was shitty, it's pretty obvious, she was stuck with a person she didn't like.
>>8125017
hey, for all the guff i give Tolstoy, he was still better than anything I'll ever become, one can't help but be impressed with his scope, at the very least. It's just a different kind of writing. Some things hit people in different ways. It seems like a lot of the more refined people I've met prefer Tolstoy, the grumpy crazies like myself seem to prefer Dostoevsky. Tolstoy certainly has his place and influence on a lot of brilliant writers and he was one himself without question.
>>8125014
Every time I think about which of his works I like the most I switch between either The Idiot or The Brothers. I need to re-read them here soon, but there are just so many things to love in both. Myshkin really carries The Idiot a lot more than any one person carries The Brothers though, so it's understandable that most people I've seen here (along with other lists and such elsewhere) don't rate it with The Brothers.
I actually didn't like Demons when I read it a couple of months ago, but I may have just been a little burnt out at the time or not in the right frame of mind. It's way more political than his other works and much to my dismay had very little of those lengthy philosophical discussions that are in his other major works. I don't think enough time was spent getting into the mind of some of the characters too, especially Stavrogin.
>>8125017
The ending of Anna Karenina has that sort of spiritual spark that you're describing here, I think. It just came too late in that novel and there wasn't much to compensate for it, IMO.
I'm very much looking forward to reading The Adolescent here in a few weeks, but I might put it off in lieu of Insulted and Humiliated even though I don't know anything about it
>>8125020
And yet she suffered for it when she left the man she didn't even love. She hated her youngest, and eventually was driven to mortal despair. I can perhaps see how deep relationships before marriage could be interpreted as important in his message, but I definitely took it as a clear "don't cheat or you'll fucking suffer, and if you do cheat, seek redemption before it is too late"
>>8125028
The Idiot was definitely a great work, I didn't much care for Myshkin while reading it, after I let it mull around in my noggin for a few months, i realized that it was certainly on purpose, I know a lot of people say Myshkin was supposed to be christ, but from my perspective, he was just meant to be a character one is supposed to hate, the society all around him conniving and evil and spiteful, and here's an innocent, to a flaw. I dunno, I preferred Karamazov because I came away from the whole experience feeling as though I had read a village, a small slice of the world that will still go on even when the pages stopped, I guess that could be taken as an unfinished work, but I found hard to resist my love for it.
>>8125020
What you're describing there is how I feel about Dostoevsky's characters, but not so much Tolstoy's. It's very possible that I just don't care for the kind of story that Tolstoy was trying to tell in Anna Karenina, and consequently didn't care about the characters or find them all that interesting to learn about, but that's why I'm looking forward to War and Peace so much, because I'm hoping that he'll prove me wrong.
I think Levin was the major reason I was able to get through Anna Karenina in the first place, he was the only enjoyable major character and I wanted to see how his conflicts would resolve. The only other character I found interesting was Oblonsky, but unfortunately he wasn't in it very much. The novel just lacked the kind of thing I look for which is found more in Dostoevsky (and select novels from other writers), but maybe that'll change with time anyhow.
>>8125039
I'm not sure that it's intended that the reader hate Myshkin, rather we should pity him for all the goodness in him (that innocence) and all the damage that such a person ends up causing.
That's a good way of putting what you liked about The Brothers. It's like Crime and Punishment (or The Idiot) in a way, only you've gone from reading a small group of people like Raskolnikov, Razumihin, Svidrigailov, Porfiry, to a village, complete with children, elders, criminals, women, the religious and irreligious, and so on. It's a very dense work even outside the philosophical discussions, just by having so many little events that go on within it. Now that you've mentioned it, I think Demons is very much like your feeling of The Brothers there, since it deals with the fate of a village.
>>8125058
well, i'll look forward to Demons I think. I suppose I can see what you mean about Myshkin, maybe I was supposed to hate the people around him rather than him. I suppose i'm no different than the other people in the book i can't seem to remember. I'll have to re-read the Idiot one of these days I think. I'm winding my way through Gaddis and other pomos at the moment, but I have my eyes on the Russians to fill out some gaps i've left unread. In regards to tolstoy, Levin was definitely one of the only tolerable characters, but even he was just a mouthpiece for Tolstoy in the final chapter of the novel, which i hear was written well after the bulk of the work was finished, and it definitely shows.
>>8125033
She suffered because she lost her son and because her second husband was just an escape from the first, their relationship still didn't have depth. Admittedly, I haven't finished the book yet, although I know how it ends, more or less.
>"don't cheat or you'll fucking suffer, and if you do cheat, seek redemption before it is too late"
I don't know, this looks too simplistic, there are too many factors around this problem that are ignored with such reading.
>>8125093
the funny thing is that I don't even feel that Levin ends up happy because of his relationship with Kitty, but rather becoming at peace with himself. It all struck so false a tone for the importance of a deep relationship, if that's what his message was. I just think the whole book was a wash due to his obvious adoration for the French aristocracy. It practically oozes from his work, this idolatry for these fucking empty douchebags who have nothing but contempt for sincerity, which is somewhat why Dostoevsky is preferable to me, he has every ounce of sincerity that Tolstoy (from what i've read) seems to avoid.
>>8125105
plebs are abound tonight
Best translations for Tolstoy? Saw his books at the bookstore, all translated by the same two people, forgot the names.
>>8127294
P&v is pushed in bookstores but Bartlett and Schwartz are two new translations that'll become popular in the next couple years. Schwartz already did an amazing translation of oblomov as well.
for those who have read dostoevskij in russian, how difficult is he linguistically? I know russian, and my furthest expedition into reading russian in the og language was master and margarita, which was amazing but quite difficult a lot of the time and took about a year lol. chekhov and pushkin and gogol I can read quite quickly, is dostoevskij closer in difficulty to chekhov or to bulgakov? asking because contemplating buying karamazov in russian and don't fancy giving up after spending $40 on it.
>>8127294
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
>>8123618
TRAIN
>>8128887
the queen
>>8124199
I just started it, not long ago.There's a reason why you can black out text.
