Real talk. How is it even possible for a guy to do what he did? Why has no one come close? Is there a chance he was more than one man?
>>8006859
>le shakespeare is head and shoulders over all writers throughout history meme
>>8006859
He become great by acting like a bitter nerd and complaining about books he's never read on /lit/.
>>8006859
>>8006859
be born in the Elizabethan era, love theatre and literature, and work your ass off.
Dude wrote like over 30 plays and over 100 sonnets in his relatively short life.
>>8006859
First time I notice his earring.
He was the greatest of all time but if you analyse what he actually did you can diminish it to almost realistic standards. Around 6-10 of his plays are mediocre or only good, his longer poetic pieces as well as most of his sonnets are largely ignored. As well as this many of his plays like Macbeth were based on plays he read in Latin or on popular stories of the time that he merely adapted and changed aspects of for stage.
Taking all these into account takes his achivements from godlike to achievable yet still incredible.
>>8006876
#staywoke
>>8006871
But he is.
it was easy to be great hundreds of years ago because the bar was basically on the floor. Mozart would be an average student following the Suzuki method, for example. If something that old is still "the best" then we're stagnant as a species.
>>8006944
>merely adapted and changed aspects of
he borrowed basic storylines and imbued them with depth of theme and character using magnificent prose.
>>8006955
Fuck off.
i'm better than shakespear and i didn't even write anything
>>8006955
You sound like you've never heard Shakespeare or Mozart
>>8006955
'old' doesn't exist. time doesn't exist. only the present moment exists.
>>8006955
>Mozart would be an average student following the Suzuki method
Mozart's ability was well past most violin players since an early age - an innate ability that takes other people to go through all the suzuki books plus a bunch of etudes in order to become decent players.
The bar for classical music was certainly not on the floor.
what did shakespeare even read? the greeks and that's it?
>>8007012
shakespeare was illiterate.
>>8007012
The Greeks, The Bible, Chaucer, Montaigne, DFW, Ovid
>>8007022
>The Bible
Why are some of the greatest writers Catholic?
>>8007063
writers are not immune to memes
>>8006955
Oh, is that why you can write better than Tolstoy? Lets see write one paragraph you ass.
>>8007087
>don't try.
they said this to Shakespeare too. "You're not going to be the next Aristotle, don't try"
>>8007103
Then that anon is only providing you with inspiration, no?
>>8006964
>he borrowed basic storylines and imbued them with depth of theme and character using magnificent prose.
>magnificent prose
lol buddy is this your stock reply for defending writers? did you macro it on your keyboard or something
Shakespeare was a hack who ripped off everybody he came across
Christopher Marlowe, The Jew of Malta:
>But stay, what star shines yonder in the east?
>The loadstar of my life, if Abigail
William Hackspeare, Romeo and Juliet:
>But soft, what light through yonder window breaks?
>It is the east, and Juliet is the sun
>>8007233
yeah nd i also hrd that he ripped of Chaucer in sm works too so go figure
>>8006955
>>8006859
He was kicked in the head by a mule as a child and that made him what he was.
Shakespeare is a monster.
Looks like the contrarians already made it into the thread
He had a team of writers, he was just the head writer, that's all. It was his company.
>>8007618
>I don't agree with their opinion. Maybe I should descredibilize them to rationalize how my beliefs are in the right
Good one, Anon. Bury that head really deep in the sand.
He was actually literate
>>8007637
I am right. I don't need to "descredibilize" anyone. They do it to themselves by being wrong.
He knew the best drug dealers.
>>8006859
>How is it even possible for a guy to do what he did?
By being really, really talented. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean everyone can't do it.
>Why has no one come close?
In my experience, when someone says something like this, say it because they want to look cultured and well-read, when, in reality, they've only read Romeo & Juliet; but, to answer your question, it depends on tastes. Some, for example, prefer Marlowe, or Milton, while others prefer Tolstoy, or Joyce, or whoever the fuck else.
>Is there a chance he was more than one man?
As far as I can tell, either Shakespeare wrote all of it, or he wrote none of it, since the tone and themes of "his" work are generally pretty consistent.
shoulders of giants
>>8006859
now now, he's no joyce
>>8007001
try this in court
>>8006859
go ask Mozart. The fucker can memory 40-min song and re-written it just from his memory days after the listening. They call those genius, prodigy or shit. I call them mutant.
What makes Shakespeare better than Marlowe?
>>8006955
>it was easy to be great hundreds of years ago because the bar was basically on the floor. Mozart would be an average student following the Suzuki method, for example.
Although I don't agree with this guy's point about Mozart, I think the sentiment's true. In virtually all domains (physics, literature, music, chess, athletics etc.), people who were at the forefront, as near as 100 years ago, wouldn't be any close to as good as what is World class today.
>>8009311
No he can't.
>>8009319
His influence.
>>8007063
Fuck off hipster, you're not a fucking Catholic.
>>8009331
ar fuck you, edgy shit head.
>>8009325
To be fair, the average IQ of newer generations does slowly rise year-by-year.
>>8009311
>It was the last of twelve falsobordone Miserere settings composed and chanted at the service since 1514 and is the most popular: at some point, it became forbidden to transcribe the music and it was allowed to be performed only at those particular services, thus adding to the mystery surrounding it. Writing it down or performing it elsewhere was punishable by excommunication.
>Three authorized copies of the work were distributed prior to 1770: to the Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold I; to the King of Portugal; and to Padre (Giovanni Battista) Martini. However, none of them succeeded in capturing the beauty of the Miserere as performed annually in the Sistine Chapel. According to the popular story (backed up by family letters), the fourteen-year-old Mozart was visiting Rome, when he first heard the piece during the Wednesday service. Later that day, he wrote it down entirely from memory, returning to the Chapel that Friday to make minor corrections. Less than three months after hearing the song and transcribing it, Mozart had gained fame for the work and was summoned to Rome by Pope Clement XIV, only instead of excommunicating the boy, the Pope showered praises on him for his feat of musical genius and awarded him the Chivalric Order of the Golden Spur.
>>8009535
average has nothing to do with exceptional outliers
>>8009616
How so? My expectations would be that if the average moves so does the rest of the bell curve.
Once upon a time...
>>8007087
delete this
test
>>8006964
>prose
Oh senpai :(
>>8006859
With the divine.
>>8006951
do you only speak English anon?
>>8009325
>In virtually all domains (physics, literature, music, chess, athletics etc.), people who were at the forefront, as near as 100 years ago, wouldn't be any close to as good as what is World class today.
This is not true at all. Just because the sum aggregate of knowledge has been enlarged over time does not mean those minds that worked when less was known were somehow less skilled, especially given that back in the day it was up to a significantly smaller number of people to do all the work. This is just a ridiculous point, especially for literature.
Francis Bacon.
I like that theory by Oscar Wilde fäms
As for why no one has come close, I believe our age and society suffocate any sensibility
>>8006955
I know Suzuki kids who couldn't write a symphony to save their fucking lives.
Homer, Ovid, Virgil were unarguably a better poet than he was. Euripides, Aeschylus, and Sophocles all wrote like 90 plays each.
>durr hurr he wasn't university educated therefor he couldn't have access to Latin and Greek texts to have the ability to write plays with the references to them and complex themes like them.
1. He technically could (we know that his Grammar school did in fact teach and cover Latin).
2. Pretty much all of the doctors and lawyers of his time (and well past it) often didn't go to University and only had a secondary-school level of education before getting an apprenticeship. University was attended for much more theoretical purposes back-then than practical job search purposes. It was often literally for guys who were interested in learning as much as they can about 'everything', hence the term "Renaissance man".
>>8007012
He read many things, including a massive chronicle of Britain that was the main source for most of his histories.
>>8007758
>As far as I can tell, either Shakespeare wrote all of it or he wrote none of it
Negative. Current textual scholarship has him collaborating with Fletcher on later plays and Fletcher likely editing plays for performance after Shakespeare's death.
>>8011300
I guess that would be quite a poet...
And Shakespeare wasn't even the most famous playwright of his own time. Ben Jonson had his own cult following while nobody gave a shit about Shakespeare. You all know he had contemporaries, right? Who did more or less the same thing he did, with possibly somewhat less finesse.
>>8011048
This right here. Only Rational response in the thread
If you follow the works in their rough chronological order it follows the same development arc as any single author. he's obviously just one guy. And certainly not Francis Bacon or something, if he wrote them they would be signed Bacon not Shakespeare.
>>8006955
Yeah well you can thank Shakespeare for half of the bullshit pseudo-intellectual terms you just used
>>8011510
The only "alternative" theory that makes any sense stylistically is the Christopher Marlowe theory. And there is pretty good evidence that he did, in fact, die in 1593. So Occam's Razor suggests that Stratfordianism is the only plausible option.
What's amazing about shakespeare?
He seems a well read guy and he seems pretty smart, I'm sure he clearly studied stuff like grammar and the classics.
It's like when people claim about miguelanchelo drawing skills being magic or some BS but don't realize it takes decades of hard work and study.
>>8011562
Bro I'm probably taking bait here but Shakespeare practically invented grammar and the English language, there was nothing to go on before him, and he was 20 or something when he wrote his first play.
>>8011562
"if they knew how hard I worked, they wouldn't call me a genius"
>>8011566
Oh, I forgot, plenty of normal people have invented grammar for new languages, so even inventing modern english isn't some magical feat of divine power.
>>8011602
Kek most modern composers let alone university students can't hold a candle to beethoven or any of the greats.
Creativity is seemingly lost among classical repeaters, they do good renditions though, it's what mostly comes out.
Fuk dis
>>8011606
Yeah, well shakespeare did it for the english language, which you speak, so stfu and sieg heil you speshul little BITCH
>>8011664
to add, if you were german you'd do the same thing for goethe, who obviously was possessed by some kind of demon
just got back from a night out drinking in nyc and im blowin hella farts u been warned
>>8011664
I'm going to give you an example, let's say you write english with 70% new words, and let's say your works become really popular, therefore making the people of 500 years from now speak a version of english using mostly your words, does that make you some kind of supernatural person?
>>8011706
Yes. Hard work doesn't matter so much compared to creativity/talent/insight/foresight etc into making these things happened.
There were plenty of other before and after who contributed but to stick so greatly is impressive.
>>8011732
because he knew how to impress the average pleb.
he knew how to get the ladies wet.
he had the skill, but he also had the touch to make the plebs to cry and get wet about his characters.
if you see what we can do today, shakespeares comes as short, since any average hollywood writer can write a better plot than him now.
but his stories are funy, interesting, can make people cry, can make people feel, can impress and make people dream.
shakespeare gives you a plethora of diferent emotions and feelings in the same work.
It's not some magical writer that was god's gift.
he was extremelly talented (by talent I mean someone who knew what was doing because he studied hard) so he had the skills to make something that impress the intelectual.
but at the same time he had the touch to create stories the average person, the plebian could feel.
So, he gives you all the package, both an intelectual experience, filled with poetrhy and the classics, and yet he also give you an emotional journey and he obviously had the skill to make interesting characters that grew and cry and make us feel they're real.
he's not a God, but he's clearly better than 99% of writers.
>>8006859
Lars Ulrich wasn't that great OP
>>8011798
>if you see what we can do today, shakespeares comes as short, since any average hollywood writer can write a better plot than him now.
holy pleb. Shakespeare created an unlimited fount of meaning, an inexhaustible corpus. The plebeian could feel it because he could position the universal in the particular with skill that remains unmatched throughout all history.
Of course it wasn't magic but I don't think you understand the enormity of his achievement.
>>8007769
underrated reply
>>8006859
I am a non muslim but the Qu'ran is beautiful in terms of prose
he stole all of his stories
>>8006955
99% this fags a Marxist
>>8006859
ALL faggots because Shakes peare was Fucking Bacon......and not the sandwich
>>8012398
Great argument
geniuses greater than shakespeare are everywhere, you just have to look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcO4nGF2VOg&feature=youtu.be
>>8007233
the second is way better
>>8007233
He was the Tarantino of his generation.
It calling "paying a homage" anon, don't be so butthurt.
