Question for everyone but particularly for Classicists: How good are the translations? I noticed some discrepencies when I read the same work from Penguin series. It seems Loeb is more literal and better? What publisher would you recommend for people who want to read classical works but don't know latin-greek?
>>7997255
>translation
>>7997258
Dude, Loeb pairs the original text along with the translation.
>>7997258
I read from the right side. I don't know latin-greek, being the pleb I am
>>7997258
no point buying them if you don't read ancient languages, the translations are extremely literal thus dry and hard to read. plus they don't have footnotes to references and that can fuck you up in more obscure works.
buy oxford world classics, hackett etc
Not OP but I was wondering about the Haines 1916 translation of Meditations, I already have a Loeb Anabasis and want a Loeb Meditations to match.
>>7997291
is oxford series good for a beginner? Penguin had footnotes but I think they took translation a bit beyond the necessary.
>>7997291
Confirmed for not knowing dick about Loeb.
*Loeb publishes dozens of texts and even entire writers literally available nowhere else in English
*Loeb has multiple generations of translations, and has new editions being published right now, with emphasis placed on revitalizing what may have been a clunky translation from nearly a century ago
*With those different generations of translations come differing quality footnotes. Some more meaningful and important works (e.g., Polybius) are generously annotated. Frankly Oxford over-annotates. My OWC 400 page copy of Tacitus' annals has about 130 pages of end notes.
Admittedly introductory critical apparatus is usually brief if even existent. Ideally Loebs are either used to read the original language, or to access something otherwise nonexistent in English translation (a problem anyone will face if interested in going deeper than the mere surface of the ancients).
OP I do my best to only buy Loeb when I have to, since I read in English. Oxford, Penguin, and Modern Library have a lot of big name ancient texts more readily and affordably available. Loeb is for the more esoteric and more complete stuff--you can get Polybius or Appian or Cicero from Oxford or Penguin, but not in full. When I'm forced to buy Loeb because the more accessible text is incomplete, I still buy the latter because normal 30ish page intros from normal publishers tend to give a decent peek into the author in question, while recommending further primary sources and more extensive secondary sources; Loeb rarely has a >10 page intro.
Also even with Penguin and Oxford be careful to get the newest edition; across the board, publishers in English have acknowledged that Latin and Ancient Greek translations were often garbage until very recently. This makes buying used copies risky, especially online (like when you're not sure which Penguin edition you're actually going to get). Otherwise Penguin and Oxford are great, and Modern Library has the only non-Loeb complete edition of Plutarch's lives, so don't ignore them as a publisher for ancient works.
PS if money is an issue, hunt abebooks for Loebs. Sometimes you can get good deals; I got a used but unmarked set of Pliny for 60% off.
PPS Sorry for any typos; I wrote this on my phone b
>>7997354
Thanks for the detailed response. I know many works can only be found (or complete works as you said) only on Loeb.
But for popular works with many translation which publisher do you reccomend first? Should I look at Oxford first and if not Penguin then loeb etc?
>>7997357
For philosophy, always buy the Hackett edition. Penguin is notoriously shit at translations.
>>7997369
Should I buy Loeb over Hackett?
>>7997357
I don't go to one first all the time. I always shop around and compare the offerings. Usually one will have a better price, longer intro, newer translation, or different offerings. For example penguin and oxford both offer Polybius' histories, but Oxford only gives books 1-4, 6, and 12, which are the most complete ones still extant, and the translator says something like "this will give you an idea of Polybius' overall plan." Penguin offers selections of maybe a dozen Polybius chapters to give a broader view. And of course Loeb offers everything, but in multiple volumes, which are each expensive.
Always compare penguin/owc selections with what they're actually drawing from, i.e., the loeb texts. Reference the loeb wiki page every time you buy an ancient work so you know what a specific writer actually has out there. Otherwise you'll never know that Appian has a whole ethnographic history that comes before his widely available books on Rome's civil wars.
Besides that you really can't go wrong with either penguin or owc. Both have recently made strides towards improving their translations, and both tend to have decent intros. As I said above owc often has overwhelming end notes, but that's personal preference. Try some from each publisher for sure. Hope that helps! Feel free to ask more questions if you have any; I'll check back in the morning.
Otherwise, good luck!
>>7997375
Not for philosophy.
The Loebs are for students of Greek and Latin.
Hackett for those who wish to master the philosophical content.
>>7997357
Norton Critical > Oxford
>>7997443
some norton critical are abridged, just for warning
>>7997465
Meh, who gives a fuck?
All those essays they put in and that I don't read increase my page count on Goodreads so I'm all for it.
>>7997306
Oxford World's Classics are generally fine; however, in line with the general trend also evident in Penguin, the more recent translations tend to have fuller notes.
It's hard to generalize about series with multiple contributing translators. In some cases, one or the other will have the better version (e. g., the Penguin volume of Lucian's Dialogues of the Courtesans is complete, the Oxford a selection), and what "better" means will depend on the readers priorities (e. g., Robin Waterfield, who translates a lot for Oxford, is not necessarily the best choice if you want technical accuracy, as opposed to a readable representation of the source text).
>>7997255
Listen to >>7997354
Loebs have been published for more than a century (since 1912). Some of the older ones are still good (e. g., Duff's translation of Lucan with a text based on Housman); some much less so (AS Way's versions of tragedy stick in my mind). Some old ones are simply out of date in scholarship or language, or reflect a tendency to expurgate that modern ones do not. Many have been replaced or revised, sometimes with much more content and information (e. g., Most and West's combined total of four new volumes replacing the old one-volume Hesiod, Homeric Hymns, and Homerica).
Loebs have also changed their focus. Originally, they were meant to be affordable editions providing original text, limited critical apparatus, and serviceable translations for a broad readership. Nowadays, as the audience for original language texts has shrunk, the Loebs aim at a more scholarly standard, which is reflected in texts, translations, and other matter.
The biggest advantages of Loeb remain quality of manufacture, and extensiveness: you will find not just texts that aren't readily or at all available in translation elsewhere, but also much fuller selections from fragmentary authors, such as the Greek lyric poets.
>>7997357
>But for popular works with many translation which publisher do you reccomend first?
You really cannot go by publisher. Most series have some outstanding volumes, some that are perfectly adequate, and some that are less good. Also, your priorities and interests as a reader will affect choice of translation: for example, some will want a version that has claims to literary or poetic qualities in English; some will be less interested in style and more in literal accuracy, even if that makes for a less fluid English text.
If you are interested in reading a widely translated author in translation, the best approach is to look for recommendations and reviews, and comments about the qualities of particular versions. For example, intriductions (like the Oxford Very Short Introductions series), handbooks or companions from major presses like Cambridge UP, that you should be able to find in libraries, will tend to have bibliographies and / or recommended reading. The major translations will have been reviewed or discussed in the mainstream literary press, and in specialized venues like Bryn Mawr Classical Review (http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/).
If you are seriously interested in a particular work, it may also be worth using more than one version; or comparing multiple versions of particular passages; because each translation will tend to emphasize or reveal different aspects of the source text.
>>7997354
Excellent post m80
>>7997255
They're variable but generally perfectly serviceable. I have spotted errors in them but I can't even cite any as I haven't cracked a Loeb in years.
Keeping this thread alive for visibility.
