Anybody else find that once they started reading regularly they became much less interested in video games? Not meaning to be pretentious either, I just don't find them as enjoyable anymore.
>>7981320
Pretty much any less-structured, less artificial experience than gaming makes games seem passe. I dropped games because I discovered fishing as a young lad and no game could measure up to even a lazy afternoon catching catfish.
>>7981320
dude same thing happened to me. the year before I started reading I spent 3 grand a gaming pc too. now it just sits there collecting dust.
I've been reading heavily since I was 12 and videogames became less and less interesting, although once I had sex I completely lost interest altogether.
I do occasionally play a game a year and they are all single player
>>7981320
Nope, you just played shit games, you should ask /vr/ about games not /v/
I have phases I alternate between. Sometimes I read for months and barely play videogames, other times I just play games if there's a string of good releases and ignore reading. Happens with every hobby I have.
If I'm interested in a story I'd read a book
if I want some blood-rush I'd just play Doom or something
its really just about knowing what you want
yes but i think correlation not causation. grew older, lost interest in task completion of games, don't play them, more time, some used on reading
>>7981320
Yeah. Though I've still got a soft spot for Boletaria.
Happened to me with anime. Plotlines became way too superfluous for me after it.
>>7981353
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who built a gaming PC, only to later decide games weren't at that worthwhile.
>>7981578
With the exception of the objectively best genre of games, RTS
No. There are periods of 4-8 weeks where I just don't want to play vidya and would rather spend them time reading, but it also happens the other way around.
>>7981320
I find myself enjoying less things as I grow older. Not that I discard music, literature, paintings, movies or videogames. It's just that I have more of a hard time finding something that really moves me, maybe because I, as everybody, cannot help but ask for a better execution and a deeper/richer experience each time I finish contemplating a great work.
My last great findings were
>Détruire, dit-elle
>Bloodborne
>Niels Lynn
With Bloodborne I loved the architecture, the way you move through a very strange world and the ways start noticing your perspective of it as a whole, almost dynamic, structure. The same thing happened to me with its "story" that is more of an archaelogical endeavour the player has to take taking into consideration the geography, items descriptions, images of items, statues, cinematics, dialogues with NPCs, interaction with the enviroment and enemies, bosses, mechanics such as insight that changes the way you see the world... Each thing by itself and the relations and contradictions between all of these.And that art design and fucking atmosphere with a lovecraftian twist.
>>7981320
>do a thing
>other things get done less
Tfw not going to read as much now after taking up guitar ;__;
>>7981320
its called growing up.
>>7981653
Bloodborne is not as good as demons, dark souls 1 or dark souls 3.
Still good though.
nah games offer something no other medium can
>>7981796
Bloodborne/ Ds1 > Dark Souls 3 > Demon Souls > Dark Souls 2
But that's just my opinion.
>>7981320
That happened to me, kind of. Books and music "squeezed out" games for me. Not intentionally, I ended up forgetting that I could be playing a game because I was reading or listening.
Well, this isn't really true anymore, because I play a game every other day or so. They are still interesting to me. Strategy games, point-and-click games like Machinarium and Beneath a Steel Sky, artsy stuff like Psychonauts and Portal and chess... They are actually really good, dumping all this stuff would be denying yourself interesting experiences.
>>7981836
escapism for manchildren
>>7981320
games are not really all that fun. they're basically a simulacrum of fun.
it's like ramen compared to a nice steak dinner. the steak dinner takes effort to prepare, but is vastly more rewarding. same with reading and video games
>>7981895
Steak dinners are better than reading and video games, I see now
I don't mind video games so long as they're engaging
>>7981895
Everyone has their preferences if you like it or not. While I personally view books as the steak dinner others won't and that's fine.
>>7981547
This. Sometimes all I want to do is log on and blast shit, sometimes I look at my Steam list and not a single thing there appeals to me so I'll pick up a book.
>>7981908
of course, and everyone will judge people if they like it or not.
It depends on the game to be honest. I've moved from playing mostly multiplayer games to more experimental story driven indie stuff.
All videogames except strategy and sims got increasingly stale after reading alot. Also i only keep playing games to spend time with my husbando on the other side of the planet.
single player games are for fags.
dota and cs ftw
There is many good videogames with a great story.
Saying that videogames aren't good enough is just admitting that you haven't searched enough.
>>7981653
I want more walking simulators about moving through strange and abstract enviroments.
>>7981981
The vanishing of ethan carter.
Look it up, is a great game, at least the map is.
I go through phases between all of my hobbies and these stretches can last months. I switch between movies, western shows, anime, books, manga, video games, audio books, podcasts. I usually am heavily into two at once. I also have noticed if I'm more active (work is more stressful or I've been working out a lot) I am less likely to play video games (unless I have been excited for a specific video game). Right now I'm playing dark souls 3 and hyper light drifter, so my book backlog is getting pretty big. I want to read Kafka On the Shore next.
>>7981942
try something with more subtle story telling. Something that tells story telling through visual design and game mechanics (like dark souls or hyper light drifter).
>>7981895
if you are comparing video games to ramen, then you are playing the wrong kind of video game.
>>7982003
*tips fedora*
Gotta know what you like. I don't play game for stories but for mechanics, so I prefer shit like Cook Serve Delicious or Dota2 or Europa Universalis 4.Except for Persona 4, only game where I have a waifu - Chie best girl fite me
I haven't dropped games but I CERTAINLY look at games through other eyes ever since I've started writing, which is almost analogous to me starting to read heavily.
I also developed other interests.
>>7981335
I honestly don't understand how something like fishing could compare to the experience of playing Ocarina of Time. It has everything that is calming and awe inspiring about the simple experience of nature, but with more deliberate contrasting structure and without the mindless torture of fish. I can understand valuing the visceral sense of realness, but there's nothing inherently more worthwhile about that.
>>7982036
Seriously, there's something obviously lacking about whatever reason he was playing games before.
Now that you say,I haven't touched a game in weeks.
Reading has been doing things to me.
I feel a lot happier nowdays,even less sick.
But my thinking has became more disconnected.I jump between themes/ and then I forget what I was talking about.
I get lost in the labyrinth of my own analogies.
>>7981335
Depends entirely on what kind of game you're playing. Games have become both more and less structured. As you grow older your imagination tends to ossify and a lot of the wonder of the game, the game you're playing in your mind, becomes less boring.
The magic of stuff like secrets and glitches disappears, they're just bits of code in the mind of an adult. The adult mind chafes at the limitations of a game while the mind of a child imagines his character doing things outside of the game's limitations.
Games are less structured in our minds than they are in our hands, and when the mind begins to align with the body and understand the physical limitations of the world around it, the game becomes less fun.
>>7981320
I haven't stopped playing videogames but I no longer enjoy them, much like I've lost enjoyment of most other forms of media. I'm not sure I enjoy anything anymore and I don't know how I feel about it
>>7982150
Start doing some real then, go for a walk in the forest or something.
>>7981320
Didn't leave much time for video games during a few years, but I make the effort and try to mess around with one every now and then.
I've never cared for story in video games so no, I play for gameplay, if I want story I will read a book.
>>7981876
Same here, but my hobby phases can also involve trying and failing to learn a new skill, like improving at chess or figuring out how to interpret car models.
No, OP, they were separate. I played shitloads of videogames from the age of 5 to 19/20. I think videogames peaked with Sega during the Dreamcast and Capcom / Konami during the PS2 era (I only played most Nintendo classics years after they were released, and really liked them, so they get a spot too). I then got bored.
I only started reading since the age of 17. I have read tonnes more than the person on the street and I'm obviously aware there's much more to read. I'm not tired of books by a long shot, but I am sick and tired of the entire art form being embedded within the pseudo intellectual tradition of obscurantist garbage and cultural capital signalling and pretentious Oxbridge / New England publishing monopolies, and half assed philosophies and ON AND ON. I'm not even saying I read genre fiction. I barely do, and my favourite books are by "literary" authors. But I'm so fucking tired of everything on the list and more. What a load of cancer!
The only video game I've played within the past 2 years was Super Mario Bros 3 within the past week. I think this is a good litmus test. Someone's reaction to this game basically sums up their attitudes towards creativity, their pretentiousness, their (faux) intellectuality etc.
a book is never going to be able to emulate a 2 hour round of Project Reality
don't really know why you'd bother comparing them 2bh
>>7981981
The Beginner's Guide is the peak of art in gaming, so try that out.
I rarely read fiction, so no
>>7981320
90% of games other than niche indie stuff and pre-2000 ones are garbage, anyway. Also what >>7981547 said, games were meant to be interactive and that's what they're best at - providing entertainment through interaction. When a game designer tells you that the gameplay is intentionally shallow and simplistic in order to give way for a complicated plot, you know it's going to be shit (see: any walking simulator released in the past 15 years).
>never huge into video games
>want to get into games
>want to have these wonderful epic experiences in a new unique artistic media
>download Dark Souls because that's supposed to be the highest achievement of video game artistry
>tfw been playing regularly for a month and still can't get beat the second boss
>tfw always get frustrated and go back to reading books
>>7982287
No, it's shit. Another "woo, I'm so self-conscious, look at me, faggots" kind of game. Same goes for Stanley Parable, entertaining for a while but imitative as fuck. Heavy-handed satire only gets you so far.
>>7982303
Games these days are shit. The reason that the Souls games are praised so much is because they are like the typical 8/10 game from 15 years ago
>>7982244
Both PS2 and Dreamcast have massive libraries of great obscure/relatively unknown games, too.
>>7982307
What are past games that are great artistic achievements?
>>7982312
I don't mean artistic, I just mean gameplay and design choices
>>7982306
So you haven't played it?
>>7982307
the Souls franchise is nothing like any game 18 years ago
>>7982323
But gameplay is an important part of the game's art?
>>7981320
you are playing too much. That's all.
>>7982325
I have and my point still stands. That "twist" is pathetic.
>>7982326
It plays like a mix between King's Field, Enclave and Blade of Darkness.
>>7982342
The "Twist" isn't why the game isn't why i said it was the peak (although i liked it). The game is lean and varied with every aspect of it building to one narrative.
>>7982346
Elaborate, please.
>>7981320
Yeah. Reading is just so much more fufiling than video games. I still play counterstrike though, it's a 15 year old habit at this point. Hard to believe
>>7982351
While the game is bare in mechanics, the mechanics the does have are all necessary to the narrative (such as thegun being used to destroy previous levels or the forced backwards walking creating a similar camera angle to the Escape frome Whisper ending). Wreden uses of color and texture to create parallels between levels like, using white texture-less walls and blue light to create a sense of holiness. The dialogue in game also had some jarring moments like: The Phone Booth, The Speech Bubbles, The Professor, and the first set of conversationsI especially liked the line "Yes, there was a world stamped with whiteness."
That said I honestly believe the narration was pretty great even though it verged on being to sentimental.
>>7982389
I did the same thing as well. Seeing that it's so common, I think building a PC is more a sign of exit rather than a statement of going all in. Like building a monument for an event that had long since passed. Trying to reclaim those old feelings you had playing Zelda on the N64 that were only possible due to your long gone childhood imagination.
>>7982390
I know I'm going to sound like some redneck opposed to avant-garde art in the early 1920s, but I'm honestly tired of conceptual/metafictional games that have little to show in the department of gameplay. It all feels gimmicky, almost as if the whole attention came from testing the boundaries and exploring the medium.
Where's the fun at? Ulysses still has an interesting story and atonal music is challenging but enjoyable.
>>7982405
I think it's pretty fun, but I'm also a sucker for that sort of blotchy and surreal space. I laughed a lot during the game, but also felt uncomfortable in a way that most things can't reach. I think the game has a certain beauty to it that I find myself thinking about a lot. That said I'm doing a reading list to build up to Ulysses now because I loved portrait so much.
>>7981320
I was never big into videogames, Ive had PS consoles since I was eleven. Its fun to play with friends, but if I spend longer than 2-3 hours playing I get bored and turn it off. I know people who'll forgo sleep to play whatever they want for 10-12 hours, be really tired and lifeless the next day and "not know why" its fucked.
>>7982090
pretentious af
I read heavily from my infant years until I started playing vidya as a teen. I still read more than most, but was more focused on gaming. Then around age 21 I lost all interest in games (except Minecraft which I went through phases of using socially). About seven years later I don't game at all, just read.
>>7982427
It might be,but it still happens.
>>7981320
I stopped playing video games in early high school and was never particularly interested in them outside of popular RPGs like Pokemon and The Elder Scrolls. I don't fault people who love them because they are a form of art, it's just that the vast majority of video games have uninteresting characters, lazy narratives, and a superficial grasp of politics and philosophy--this is because video games usually are focused more on virtual mechanics rather than traditional storytelling.
Video games are made to pander to the lowest denominator possible. Pathetic men with no real accomplishments in life need to simulate them in a tube to feel worthy.
Who /dwarf fortress/ here?
I like following a newborn child's first years in my fortress, seeing him make friends and face death.
>>7982078
real life experience > simulated experience
while fishing may not be your thing, any walk through nature is inherently greater than staring at a screen not only due to its visceral realness but also due to the countless unforeseen variables and possibilities, the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, etc.
>>7982307
UUUUGhgghhh, I know right?!?!?
I was born in the wrong generation :((((((
>>7982513
yo I can't go shoot people in real life man
>>7982498
Riding a bike is in another category. I personally seek enjoyment in consuming sone sort of media (movie, game, book) and similarly to OP, as I got older, games just didn't do it. Books are much more stimulating to me, which makes them more worthwhile.
>>7981320
i quit playing games in my late teens. my favorites were always the Zelda series. in my case, and maybe others can attest, video games are a fun and entertaining way to spend some time but there is very little actually learned, accomplished, or rewarded in completing a game. while reading a good book tends to be more fulfilling, enlightening, and a more overall rewarding experience.
>>7982513
>countless unforeseen variables and possibilities
>"WOW, I can't wait to see what's behind this tree!"
>"OH MY GOD IT'S ANOTHER TREE!!!!!!"
>>7981859
DaS>DS3>DS2>DeS, for me.
Haven't completed BB and I played DeS after played the first 2 Dark Souls games, so I may be biased.
>>7982523
they're different. you get stimulated in a different way playing video games vs books. and if we're talking storyline wise, obviously books shit on video games i mean don't play video games if you want a fucking story but there are so many other types of video games that to compare the two mediums is silly.
>>7982526
>what is weather
>what is foliage
>what is wildlife
Please go outside ever.
>>7982389
>>7981576
>>7981353
Same here. Just got a gtx 970 and all that shit but I really couldn't bring myself to play anything. But not because of reading. It was more due to realising I can do productive stuff rather than consume mindlessly(this was due to reading). I wondered what was wrong with me then I literally downloaded anything which Google said would be addictive and I couldn't play anything for more than 5 minutes.
However one thing I will concede is that multiplayer competitive games with immediate ramification(dota 2) still hold my interest because it's more about beating the other person. I hope to replace this with an actual sport in the near future.
Single player games are really boring for me now. So is watching most TV and movies.
>>7982403
This nigga gets it.
>>7982498
I can't do both. I'd rather read in the free time I have. I feel like I'm wasting my time when I play games.
>>7981320
I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. I read regularly before I played video games. My guess is you're just a pleb obsessed with novelty, which is why you posted a shitty image criticizing modern AAA garbage and nothing about any good games.
>>7983042
Out of curiosity, what are some good games? Being serious, what do you like?
>>7981653
>talks about how his taste is improving throughout the years
>mentions videogames in a positive light
come on now
My problem is that the big, noticible problem of vidya being a highly commercialized form of entertaiment.
>>7982429
are you me?
I both played vidya and read a lot until I was about 14. Then I stopped reading but I kept playing vidya. Now I'm almost 22 and have found books to be a much more rewarding usage of my time. I suppose it's just a matter of maturing. That said I still have an enormous, color-coded, autisically organized backlog of media to complete.
>>7981320
I agree to an extent. Because some games just offer an experience you cant get from reading, like Dark Souls (the first one). Or they can world build along with reading like TES and Fallout. So I still play games like those.
But where I could sink 1,000+ hours into TES and Fallout, I simply can't anymore. I only play the first Dark Souls still, and I usually pick reading over playing if I have the choice.
>>7982526
you're a piece of shit and do not deserve to live in such a beautiful world if you cant even appreciate it. please kill yourself, you complete waste of life
>>7983314
Actually, I do also sometimes download a pokemon rom on my phone and nostalgia while I'm out and about til I get bored of the game and cheat a lot. I haven't done that in almost a year, but I've been thinking about giving Soul Silver a run if I can find a working rom.
I stopped playing video games because it felt like a waste of time. It was fun, but not mentally stimulating. I didn't feel like I was gaining anything from it other than cheap instant gratification. Like McDonalds. Arguably more harmful too, I felt like I was getting dumber and I was certainly much more asocial.
>>7981981
Don't worry, I got your sarcasm anon. But honestly, Dark Souls has that strange, abstract world and lore but it's also backed by an incredibly rewarding combat and challenge system, an amazingly scaled world that itself is a puzzle, and a challenging, competitive online system, all of which all tie into the lore. The game really is a piece of art for its medium.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/P4Tj6Na.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>7982307
The best games were probably the ones you played as a child. I remember playing some scooby doo game that was probably shit, but I'd still rank it higher than any modern game. Might as well list the GOAT's
>GTA 3, Vice city, San Andreas (didn't like it as much because it didn't have that "feel" too it. But there was so much more to do, I can't exclude it)
>Splinter Cell (chaos theory/pandora tomorrow)
>Tony Hawk American Wasteland
>NFSU2
>Halo 1/2
>Cod4
Vidya is still my #1 hobby, I count books as a completely different form of entertainment and I actually read really rarely because Im picky as fuck with books. I count movies as completely different experience aswell and I find value in all three things I mentioned. When I want to use more of my own imagination, I read a book. When I want to get directly involved in a story or just experience something "first hand" I play a videogame. If I want to simply observe and make my own conclusions on things, I watch a movie. I dont watch American movies really since they are 95% cancer, but almost everything outside the murican film industry has something of worth.
Personally I just enjoy videogames more, but I also find it odd to compare videogames to books as most videogames arent about "the story", they arent usually character studies or a look into a weird persons head. They are just entertainment that can range from comfy stuff to incredibly challenging and exhausting competitive play. There are of course games with great stories that are better than most books, but its pretty rare. From taking it easy in witcher 3 to playing starcraft 2 like a total shitlord.
Books are the easiest form of escapism in my opinion. Everything shapes up to how you want it to be in your head. Characters are pleasant looking in your head and you dont have to challenge yourself outside of maybe figuring out character motivations or other things like that. I read lots of stuff with mystery elements to them and I find figuring those out to be easier on my head than figuring out how to beat a smelly diamond/platinum rank nerd in SC2. Books allow a person to move at their own pace, games rarely allow that, thats also part of the charm with vidya.
video games are a waste of time and make u into an asocial tard...that said i fully intend to play the shit out of the all the games i missed over my lifetime when i retire...so it motivates me to save money into a roth ira or 401k, so i can buy all the ill future consoles and big screen gaming pcs n shit of the future...like when i'm 65 and my wife divorced me and took the house and kids etc. will just rent a room in the middle of montana or some other cheap ass state and play the shit out of video games till i croak, video games help old ppl avoid age related mental decline so you have a good excuse as an old fuck...but until then i want to do productive shit, and i can pass up any game knowing it will be even sweeter to go back and play it as an old mother fucker and just have a rad nostalgia trip all the way to the grave, u feel me?
The only games any fun anymore are sims, strategy and skill based fps but only cause i used to be really good at them so its nice popping in and dominating scrubs.
All games feel like a giant waste of time though, more so then any other medium.
>>7982307
You know, if you don't let the hand holding system carry you in games like The Witcher, TES, Fallout, Wasteland, etc., and actually play the game just using lore and the reading materials, terrain, and people given in the game, youll find that the games aren't that bad. They just need to cater to those who enjoy being catered for.
>>7983381
sims as in simulators
not actual sims...
>>7981653
FROM's games in general have the advantage of having their story not force-fed to you, you have to dig for it, and in turn, it's more rewarding when you make the connections. The little things, some geography, a missing statue, a insignificant item description, can make all the difference.
>>7983388
yeah, from games actually utilize the strong points of the medium from a story perspective which is sadly enough very rare as it is.
>>7983381
yeah, it's hard to get in to games when u have the nagging feeling u could be doing something actually productive...and now with shit like steam that fucking logs all ur play time and broadcasts it to the internet makes it even easier...every time u go to load a game on steam there's a counter saying "80 hours played" and u think "shit son that's two weeks of full time work....imagine i spent that time doing something productive instead of vegetative what i could accomplish right now", seriously, if u could just buy games and play them without using steam or blizzard accounts n shit i would probably play more, but that shit logging all my wasted time makes me self-conscious about playing
>>7983394
i hate "story" games like those fucking jap rpgs where it's like watching an anime but with two hours of grinding levels between episodes...not fun at all, sorry.
>>7983397
Agreed, the hours played the past 2 weeks make me feel like im being shamed by the software itself for wasting my time. Too bad it all ends up feeding more and more into procrastination on chans than work...
>>7983400
Yep, also destroyed my enjoyment of story based RPGs, basically every quest is a cliche its just not fun. Even shit I used to love like BG2 feel badly written and only feed into nostalgia when replaying.
>>7983374
>Vidya is still my #1 hobby
>>7981320
Yes, games are really boring.
I find it incredibly difficult to play anything for longer than half an hour at a time because I get so bored.
>>7983374
while you come off as a massive pleb in comparison to the rest of /lit/ I am at least glad that you read
>>7983414
>Too bad it all ends up feeding more and more into procrastination on chans than work...
so true, chans are a worse time waster than even games, at least games u have some experience like "i played that" but the time u waste on chans and other random forums is just gone forever without even a memory to show for it
>>7983463
And yet here we are
>>7983463
oh fuck off. I've had more meaningful discussions, feels and laughs in my 8 years of 4chan than I've had fun in a video game.
>>7983463
You're right. I'm gone for good.
>>7983527
>going on reddit
>>7983383
the writing feels bad though
dialogue-based RPGS always feel painful to me because I never get to say what I actually want to say and it's all just a bunch of shit
>>7983535
It's all the same. Having to sort through shitposts on 4chan just like you have to sort through the popular subreddits on reddit to find good stuff. Fuck off with this website superiority bs.
I usually alternate between the two
if I'm reading a book my main focus is that but then if I'm playing a game then I usually don't read
just finished dark souls III so now I am reading the road
after I finish that I am going to play final fantasy VIII
after I beat that I will read something idk what yet
>>7983593
morrowind had the best writing of an rpg i have played because it used the game system to develop a narrative of the world, and it had various conflicts between mercantilism and traditional cultures, etc. like some kind of historical dialectic while skyrim was just a bunch of fucking cliche shit holy shit it was bad, and japanese shit is just character and plot driven shitness
>>7983604
spoken like a true redditor. 4chan is the superior website due to the inherent nature of fairness every post has. Reddit is for ADD brats. Chronological posts or fucking nothing.
>>7983613
best thing to do is listen to an audiobook or college lectures while u grindin, one year i played some mind numbing grindy mmorpg but i always had audio on in the background and by the end my literary theory went up by like 10x
>>7981895
this, a thousand times this.
>>7982328
Games aren't art. Or at least the vast majority aren't.
>>7983669
so true, the work u put into a video game just gives barely any reward when instead u could just channel that energy into something with real results...like u see kids so expert on WoW or something they have at least a bachelor's worth of time and knowledge invested it in, but all they get to show for it is a gearscore rank on a website that most ppl who play the game don't even care about nevermind anyone else...the truth is work is more fun than video games. i don't mean dead end shit for teens and dropouts, but any job with a career path or chance to lead to entrepreneurship is vastly more fun than any game and the reward is significant on both a mental and cash basis
>>7981320
I'd also put forward, as someone else no doubt has, that the industry as a whole has been in gradual quality decline as well. Outside of a few indie hits and Dark Souls 3 I'm not really interested in much.
>>7983673
game mechanics are what make games games, saying the plot in a game is more important than the gameplay is like saying album art is more important than the music on an album...the problem is most games are generic ripoffs of doom or diablo or some other 90s game, but every once in a while a new game comes out and makes a new category, that is "art" of some kind
>>7983686
>Dark Souls 3
if i wanted to be frustrated by frustrating gameplay i'd just download a mother fucking ghouls and ghosts rom
>>7983662
It's just a website tho. relax man. Didn't mean to upset you.
>>7983691
I refuse to accept that gameplay is art. In my eyes, the only games that are actually artistic in nature are ones that add a degree of interactivity to another medium without compromising it. Take Sword and Sworcery for example, it's basically a short film but because you exert some form of control over the story it becomes a game.
>>7982498
Honestly this. I love books, and since I started reading regularly they take up 30% of my free time which otherwise would have been spent on Vidya, comics, movies or TV. But I still play video games, read comics, and watch movies and TV shows all the time.
I don't understand you people who can only dedicate yourself to one thing. Do you just feel the same urge for only one kind of entertainment all the time? I honestly pity you singleminded folks, a lot of these mediums compliment each other well, often augmenting the experience gained from each other.
>>7983673
2/10 made me reply
>>7983718
why can't gameplay be art
music is art and it's completely abstract as well
i mean theoretically
>>7981320
Why not do both? I remember spending a ton of gold in The Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion on books and just read them all, I could go online but the trill of finding a rare book or buying a expensive one is just awesome.
In general as the Elder Scrolls games go on there is less and less to read which sucks but still, games with codecs are also pretty cool.
>>7983755
>reading books inside of video games
That's even worse than reading books about video games
>>7981661
To be quite frank, I second what this fine gentleman said.
Video games are for the immature youth, no true patrician would ever allow himself to be entertained by such drivel. If you want to be mature, you must value maturity above all else and partake only in mature activities for mature gentlemen such as myself. All other activities must be met with derision and recognised for the foul unenlightened lack of adultedness that they encourage to the juvenile minded simpleton plebs of society.
I'm actually attempting to read less and watch more television and movies and play more video games.
I think reading, especially philosophy, has made me a lot less happy.
>>7983721
Woah that pic is so cute. Is that an Anime I can binge watch for the rest of my life? :'3
>>7983718
Really, you're just looking at games wrong. Obviously some games are pure gameplay (arcade games, competitive games) and those aren't art, but many games use gameplay to reinforce the themes of the work.
It's sort of like how movies use cinematography to reinforce themes.
>>7983807
Butthurt game-playing manchild detected
Wouldn't a game such as LSD Dream Emulator be considered supra artistic and by picking up your stick you become immersed in the art form.
I know this is manly on the supjwect of video games but to advance my argument I would like to assert the creation of art can also be a game, from the pure creative conception to the act of matterializing it. the moment a 3rd party enters into the real you created and find find again that play it is to my mind very much a game(although as brief or eternal as an instant and an abstract far from the child's tail waging days)
to summerize games(video games as an extention) can be art in their mere creation and remain art while partaken by "gamers" if they so deem.
>>7983386
>he doesn't like playing The Sims
shit taste to be honest
>>7983812
philosophy has made me a lot more happy to the point where I feel ashamed over my happiness and loathe myself
>>7983826
HA! The only game one such as I has time for is the game of going on 4chan to proudly display my own maturity by bringing into question the maturity of others for enjoying a different mediums of entertainment!
>>7983839
What kind of philosophy have you been reading, anon?
>>7983882
almost exclusively nietzsche
>>7983886
Just threw all his work in the trash after reading most of them twice. Doesn't really do it for me anymore to be honest.
>>7983827
I think the question is whether art can be art to the artist performing it. The process of creating a videogame is obviously artistic, but can it be said to be art to the creators? A recording of gameplay can easily be thought of as art and therefore the player as an artist, but is he an artist to himself, or to a third party?
This applies to any other art form, too. Can you say that, as you write, you are seeing a work of art in the very same movement?
you can experience art no matter if you are the creator or the one enjoying it
>>7983682
>like u see kids so expert on WoW or something they have at least a bachelor's worth of time and knowledge invested it in, but all they get to show for it is a gearscore rank
That's pretty much the worst case scenario.
>>7983802
>doesn't get it
>>7983718
Have you played Bastion? If you haven't I don't want to spoil you but the end of the game has one of the best instances of gameplay reflecting and enhancing story that I've ever seen. It's hard for gameplay on it's own to be art, at least without some sort of narrative justification, but when it's done right it hits you hard.
>>7983718
i didn't say gameplay is art, i said it's the most important element in a game...street fighter 2 is one of the greatest games of all time[1]..it has no story (well i'm sure there's some queer lore that ppl who suck at playing it consume, but the kids at the arcade don't give a shit about chun-li's backstory)
[1] but in my personal opinion sf2 was not as good as mortal kombat 1+2 because sf2 was not balanced, in other words ryu/ken and guile were the only seriously competitive characters where as all characters in mortal kombat were viable
>>7981320
The vast majority of what I read is nonfiction, usually philosophy, or on politics, economics, psychology, and generally anything on intellectual subjects.
Video games are a different experience and serve as a fun interlude between bouts of reading. I did become somewhat less interested in video games after reading, but I still play regularly.
I do however, find both activities aesthetic, even what people consider to be "dry" philosophy.
>>7983812
u and me both, anon
>>7984173
bro i was thinking about going full pleb and getting like an amazon prime account so i can get my orders faster but also stream the fuck out of plebby tv shows and movies, torrenting is too time consuming, i'd rather just pay ten bucks a month to not have to bother with it, some plebby movies are so fun too even tho they suck
I've been reading and playing video games regularly for my entire life. You're allowed to be interested in more than one thing, you know.
>>7984183
life is too short to waste it on plebby shit tho, you can't possibly learn everything, you have to choose one or two things to become expert in, there just isn't enough time to be a great programmer AND be a patrish humanities mother fucker unless u cut out the tv and video games
>>7983383
>don't let the hand holding system carry you in games like The Witcher, TES, Fallout, Wasteland, etc.
How? If a game has a handholding system that you're supposed to use, how do you trust it to still be good without that?
Nah, I view them as equal time wasters, to be honest. Doing one doesn't make me want to not do the other. They're both sources for inspiration for my writing, just in different ways.
>>7983926
good for you
>>7983812
Studying philosophy without pairing it with some form of relevant education is a waste of time and you'll probably just delude yourself into thinking you understand it.
>>7983701
The sites share a lot of users anyway. I'm fairly certain it's just a minority of people who get vocal about their lack of use of one or the other. Like vegans.
Video games are mostly shit, but no literature has impressed me as much asMGS2
I used to play way more games too. Once I became exposed to more serious films and books, games just became less interesting to me. Now I play games mostly as a social thing. I still like some games alot and would argue that they are/approach art. Such games include
>MGS 2 and 3
>Darksouls
>Undertale
>shadow of the colossus
>Braid
>the witness
My biggest problem with games is that they usually aim for the teenage boy demographic, and therefore never strive for anything beyond simple escapeism.
>>7981320
No. Video games do something completely different than literature. Vidya's about interaction, as others have pointed out -- I want to mess around in feudal Europe, or explore Lordran, or slap stick figures around. And a book isn't going to give me that.
And that's fine. Because a game isn't going to let me know the advice on how to be a late medieval prince, or explain the concept of spooks, or be an actual epic.
>>7983383
I'm still waiting for that one crucial point where one single person with enough knowledge can crank out something like Morrowind, Gothic 1, or Arx Fatalis but on a drastically lower budgetand open source. Shit like that would be the greatest thing.
>>7984664
>>Undertale
>>shadow of the colossus
>>Braid
>>the witness
kys
games are supposed to be toys and faggots like you pretending they are art just ruin the fun.
Seriously pretentious shit like Ethan Carter needs to stop.
>>7985055
>Ethan Carter
>Pretentious
Maybe this board isn't for you, anon...
>>7981320
I've been trying to wean myself off video games with books and it's working okay. I used to be addicted to DotA and just wasting my life on video games in general, which is pretty ironic because I have used to read a lot more than I played and kind of fell into a rut. 25 now and I am still a pathetic piece of shit like I have been for five years, but at least I'm reading and writing a little bit.
Maybe one day someone will want to read my depressed, NEET memoirs.
Does anyone here play Habitica?
>>7984664
>undertale
>>7981501
same
This thread convinced me to uninstall LoL.
Thank you.
Why the fuck would someone limit himself to one medium? You people are fucking retarded. I enjoy reading Dostoevsky, but I also enjoyed playing Deus Ex, for example.
You pretentious children should kill yourself. Games aren't even comparable to other stuff as they're a mixture of multiple mediums. The gameplay is the central point, and you can't compare that to other stuff, it's a difference on a whole new level. How can you compare the feeling of building your civilization in Age of Empires II, or the perfect combos in a Tekken game to something like reading? It's in a realm of its own, it is a worthwhile experience too. I absolutely love reading, I've been reading since I was a kid, and it's my favorite medium, but I also love video games, why should I exclude them, or any other medium to be "patrician"?
The only time I'd argue video games are a waste of time is if you're playing shit like League of Legends. But quality stuff like Deus Ex is far from wasted time. Games which also focus on gameplay and execute it well also aren't a waste of time (Alien Soldier etc).
I shouldn't even have typed all this as I honestly don't give a fuck if someone judges me as a manchild if I play video games, it's that I have time to kill, so just throwing this shit out here.
>>7985379
Manchild
>>7985266
It's more than a walking sim. I do wish they'd explored the gameplay sections
>>7985266
Games are more of a craft than an art. It takes great skill to create mechanics that tie perfectly together to produce the experience you are aiming for. One Finger Death Punch is an excellent game for simple violence, Duck Game is great for multiplayer shenanigans, and Undertale at least touches on the concept of player interactivity itself, although I really think it could've gone much further.
They can also be art. The contrast between hopeless despair and determination in Dark Souls, or the absurdity of The Stanley Parable, or even the "ur actions have consequences did you know that?!" of UndertaleI'm kind of butthurt it missed so many opportunitiesmake it art.
>>7985320
Good decision.
Now play some *good* games.
>>7982097
this desu
>>7983386
Assetto Corsa or Eurotruck. Audiobooks.
Not too bad actually.
>>7985379
I agree. Also the advent of VR could mark a transition from games into 'experiences'. Potentially a fully immersive and interactive storytelling medium.
>>7985486
>Also the advent of VR could mark a transition from games into 'experiences'. Potentially a fully immersive and interactive storytelling medium.
No. VR offers nothing that make games more immersive in an artistic way that they aren't already capable of. If you don't agree with this then you likely lack the imagination to appreciate what we already have.
>>7985507
Porn though.
>>7981320
>>7981320
Different media. You just cant compare a book whit a videogame cause they have they own rules. Its eassy to make deep characters on a book, cause you have space to develop them. A videogame developer, by the other way, need to be focused on gameplay (a boring or not-fun mechanic vg doesnt sell) so he cant innovate or use long time spaces to develop or show the characters personality. By the other way, a vg its a better way to involve the player on the story, cause his dessisons affect the game, and the story dosent get mooving if he doesnt.
>>7985507
>VR offers nothing that make games more immersive in an artistic way.
I'd agree but I don't think it's an inherent limit of the medium but rather related to the abilities of content creators and perceived audience demand.
VR could expand the scope way beyond what's currently on offer purely due to the more tangible level of immersion.
>>7985055
>talking shit about SotC
>>7985289
All memes aside, I think that undertale is a very goof game. It has tons of memorable characters, witty writting, good ost, fun combat, and one of the best moral choice systems I've seen in a game. It's also fairly emotional at times, something that most games fail to achieve. Now maybe it's been too soon since I've played it to really look at it objectivly, but I found it to be one of my favorite games in years.
>>7985320
league is some astoundingly unfun shit
flowchart gameplay and grindy ladder with flamers, idiots, spics
"Gameplay" is a stupid non-word. Do you also call it "bookread" or "moviewatch?"
>>7984664
It's really surprising that there are fewer than 20 games which I would really call artistic, given the hundreds of games out there. Your list has almost every game which qualifies, at least as far as my experience goes. I would add Antichamber and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons (although I don't think that one is particularly good, it's still art), and maybe one or two others which I'm not thinking of.
I guess that the problem with most games is that they strive to have artistic moments, but they aren't willing to go all the way and be "art." A bunch of disconnected artistic moments which fail to meld together (like cutscenes placed in between long sections of blowing up enemies) isn't a piece of art. The gameplay has to reinforce the story, characters, themes, etc., and most games aren't interested in pulling off the complete artistic vision.
>>7981320
After i started reading, i went from an ass man to a breast man.
>>7981320
More like I went to rehab to treat my vidya addiction and preferred to read a book a day instead of spending time interacting with people whose company I didn't enjoy. I'm glad it helped me rediscover an old passion, 2bh.
>>7984244
... seriously? You role play; it's not complicated.
>>7986952
Actually I would argue that most of those games are impossible without the handholding systems in place, or at least so frustrating that it isn't worth it. Have you ever played Morrowind? There was no handholding system in that game. The only way to progress to a location was to read some notes in your journal, keep your eye out for signposts and landmarks, and explore.
If those games you listed included detailed journal instructions like Morrowind, then I would always play them like that, but for most of those games, the instructions they give you are useless without the map and arrow leading you towards your destination. Those games are meant to be played in babbymode.
>>7986834
Legs are patrician regardless
>>7986834
You too?
>>7984640
>relevant education
is this the productivity meme?
>>7987002
the funny thing is older games from the 90s like ultima 7 and wizardry 6 didn't even have journaling, u ha to write ur own notes in "meatspace", shit, in wizardry to even have an automap u had to pump ur "mapping" skill and find the map artifact before u could map anything and even then it just recorded like the squares u stepped on, u had to like max the shit out to get stairs and water and shit like that marked lol
>>7981360
>although once I had sex I completely lost interest altogether.
This comment causes me pain because my friend said something similar about reading. It was as if he had become so contented and neutered by his single sexual experience that he couldn't enjoy creativity anymore. At the time I hadn't had sex and was worried this would happen to me, luckily it was apparently an isolated incident.
>>7981590
I also enjoy grand strategy.
>>7987381
Gotta say little bit hyped for Stellaris/HOI4
>>7987385
Not as hyped for HOI4 due to the focus on war gaming, but I'm very hyped for Stellaris.
>>7985972
The moral choice thing isn't unique at all really. Other games have done it but undertale did it with pretty much all of the characters so that's why people remember it more without it being groundbreaking. Everything else you said is true though, it's just annoying when people praise it to be this groundbreaking game of the year material.
>games
wew laddie
the only game that I find even mildly amusing is dungeon crawl stone soup. dark souls was trash
>>7987002
You still have a journal in every game I mentioned. They just added a quest marker in conjuction.
>read journal entry
>don't make quest active
>figure out shit
>>7987556
nah
>>7987556
You have a journal entry, but in most games it really doesn't give enough information for you to figure things out by yourself. I actually tried it for a while in the witcher 3, and it was impossible. Quest locations are just too exact, and journal entries are too brief, for you to figure anything out without the quest marker.
>>7985171
DotA is great. Nothing like pouring 2000 hours into a videogame where you'll never be pro.
>>7987581
>millenial detected
>>7987581
Isn't the game open world? Just walk till you find it then, and do shit along the way. Just like a real questman.
>>7983442
it had a lot of cool ideas but ultimately most choices were an illusion and you lost control as the game went on. it's still a 90s rpg at its core
>>7983682
>the truth is work is more fun than video games. i don't mean dead end shit for teens and dropouts, but any job with a career path or chance to lead to entrepreneurship is vastly more fun than any game and the reward is significant on both a mental and cash basis
i agree with this, and was also surprised to find how much the two had in common.
>>7987479
that's because crawl devs actually give a shit unlike most devs/publishers today. their approach to player psychology/refactoring feels fresh
>>7987910
Yeah, I really love that part where the DCSS devs go and strip out years old features that people loved and tack on slapdash garbage too.Brogue >= Angband > Everything Else
>>7987936
gigantic balls of cruft are how you end up with games like nethack
odd that you mention brogue, because it also cares about simplicity and things being distinct
I played vidya my whole life, as a child it was one of my greatest passions. At this time in my life, I feel like if I'm not reading and learning in my spare time, then I am wasting my time. Video games do nothing for me, why play them when I can ready books about history, finance, philosophy, and science?
I'm not a NEET like some of you guys, I have to manage my time accordingly.
>>7987954
I like to think of Paradox's output as being somewhat justifiable from an educational standpoint. Vicky 2 is also a fairly robust economic simulator.
>>7982097
Great analysis. This is exactly how I have been feeling about games for the last 5 years but havnt really articulated in my mind other than 'loss of wonder'
>>7987954
Reading philosophy is the definition of wasted time.
>>7982097
i'm old as shit and i can still "get into" video games, it's like getting into a movie or genre book, u can always do it, it's just wasting 100s of hours on a game seems like a bad idea because u have better shit to do
>>7988054
now that is true, i'd rather blow my life playing wow than doing a philosophy phd, that is one area that anything else is better, and it's because philosophy is a lingering leftover from another age similar to astrology and alchemy
>>7988054
What lead you to that conclusion?
>>7988086
philosophy is fucking silly, that's what
>>7988092
Plebeian, I bet you waste all of your time reading fiction.
>>7988114
At least I don't waste my time with the useless mental masturbation that is philosophy.
>>7988131
Clearly we're fundamentally at odds here, that being said, I don't read contemporary philosophy.
>>7986249
There are plenty of stupid words people use that I'm sure you're not a faggot about.
>>7982526
top kek
>>7986249
No they're called prose and cinematography.
Faggot.
>tfw I read books, watch film, watch TV, watch anime, listen to music and play vidya
Feels good to not be prejudice and enjoy all kinds of media.
>>7988340
Are you trying to make your respondent's point for him?
>>7989296
Come up with a better term than gameplay.
Problem solving?
>>7989269
>Feels good to not be prejudice
Not investing any time into anime or video games doesn't necessarily make one prejudiced against them. They rather see alternatives like literature to be a far more preferential investment of their time.
But if you need to feel like a politically correct avenger here then go ahead.
>>7981320
I find it more difficult to find a game I love than to find a book I love, but I've stopped playing games as much as I used to
>>7989697
The trick is knowing which of any field is worth the time.
There are more than enough shitty books around that I know I wont ever read, same with vidya and movies.
