What's his best play?
King Lear is usually considered by modern scholarship to be his best.
Other contenders are 1H4, Tempest and Macbeth.
It's Hamlet. People will try to come up with different answers because the answer "Hamlet" is so boring, but it's Hamlet.
paws
>>7980097
This.
I seriously want to read his stuff but I'm not a native speaker so it's really hard. I would love to read Macbeth and Hamlet, even if I already know a lot about them because of movies and references everywhere.
I'm going to see The bad sleep well in my local theater tomorrow actually.
>>7980123
Get an edition with extensive explanatory footnotes, ideally the Arden. Start with Macbeth. It's short, action-packed, and to quite a good degree epitomises what Shakespeare is all about, which is why it's so often the play that is used to introduce people to Shakespeare. Watch a production of the play -- the 1978 one with McKellen and Dench is considered one of the best stagings of any Shakespeare play, and is on YouTube -- and have the text at hand while you watch. Read while watching. You'll find you understand a lot more than you thought you would, and if there's something you don't understand, pause it and consult the footnotes. Accustoming yourself to Shakespeare will take a while but it's not impossible, and it's worth your effort.
>>7980159
thanks a lot m8
Hamlet senpai
>>7980088
Henry 4 part 1 is my favorite, but you cant go wrong with Lear, Measure for Measure, Hamlet or Macbeth.
>>7980088
According to the scholarly consensus, either King Lear or Hamlet.
The History of Cardenio, ohhhhhhhhhhh but you probably haven't read it have you? What's the matter too obscure for you?
>>7980213
haha, nice post goy
How he's played everyone over centuries by convincing them he was good
>>7980088
who?
Why is Shakespeare even treated like a God? Sure his plays have nice stories, but they're all ripped off from older stories. I guess he's a good writer, but seriously the best of all time? I just don't see it.
>>7980175
Measure for Measure is fantastic
>>7980268
I think it has to do with how influential his plays were on us something like he made thousands of phrases that we use today that were never used in writing before
>>7980268
poetic texture
>reading for the plot
Without him: no melville, no joyce, no yeats, etc
>>7980162
Np man, good luck with it.
>>7980268
With Shakespeare, language is the essential. And Shakespeare's writing really is the closest thing we have to how a god would write. In Hamlet, Greenblatt estimates there are something like 377 neologisms, including words that aren't new, but are used in a new meaning. The amazing thing is not that the neologised to this extent, it's that he did so while remaining comprehensible. He seems to have been utterly unlimited by the language that existed; where it didn't give him what he needed, he simply invented it. But he did so in a way that people could understand, and this is the mind-boggling genius of the man.
Also, his insight into the mind of human beings is utterly unrivalled, and in a way, divine in its totality; hence his characters have become timeless, and seem real and relatable to us today, from Hamlet to Falstaff. It is also truly remarkable how little of Shakespeare's ego there is in his literature. With Milton (for my money the second greatest writer in this language) you cannot read 5 lines Milton-the-poet without knowing something significant about Milton-the-man. The same with Dante, or Petrarch, or Donne, or whoever you like. But you can read a lot of Shakespeare and still not catch a substantive glimpse of the man behind the text. You have to look very hard for it. What are his political views? Religious? It's very hard to tell.
Anyway, Shakespeare has the highest reputation even imaginable, but the thing is that he really does live up to it. It is completely deserved.
>>7980275
Wrong way around; his plays aren't considered good because they're influential, they've become influential because they're good.
>>7980268
Fuck off, Maxime.
>>7980268
Verse, characterization, philosophical and political themes. His story work is perfectly fine (and more of it is his own work than you imply), but it's a small part of why he's in the canon.
the one where the cannibal raped that little harlot
Shakespeare is the most underrated playwright, just as Mozart is the most underrated composer and Homer the most underrated poet.
>>7980367
>In Hamlet, Greenblatt estimates there are something like 377 neologisms, including words that aren't new, but are used in a new meaning. The amazing thing is not that the neologised to this extent, it's that he did so while remaining comprehensible.
I don't understand how this could be possible. How would someone from his own time understand what he was saying if they've never encountered the word before, or its new meaning?
Best Tragedy Lear or Hamlet
Best History Henry IV Part 1
Best Comedy As You Like It
overall best, have to give the nod to Lear desu
>>7980645
>speak latin
>take word from latin
>add it to English
>your reader speaks latin
>recognizes the word
>understands
>>7980088
hey isn't that the guy from dragon's den
>>7980656
Did the average person of his day speak Latin though?
>>7980088
Who the fuck is this impostor? I am the real Brett Wilson and I am fucking pissed.
>>7980094
HEY, THAT'S KING O'FUCKING LEARY TO YOU.
I DON'T KNOW WHO THIS KING LEAR FAGGOT IS BUT I'M NOT AFRAID TO SUE THE PANTS OFF OF HIM
NOW YOU'RE SCARING MY MONEY.
>>7980645
>>7980656
Not really correct. This might apply for Shakespeare's educated viewers/readers, but not for the majority of the people who'd go to see his plays ("groundlings", etc.) Besides, combining classical roots to form new words is not really how Shakespeare neologised anyway.
The reason it worked is the same reason you can intuitively and readily understand modern-day neologisms. When someone says "bacne" you understand that it's acne on the back. When someone says "chillax", you understand it's a portmanteau of chill and relax. Likewise, the current tendency to refer to a phenomenon or an entity as a "thing" (in the sense of, for example "oh, is that a thing?") is immediately comprehensible to you. And so on. It's the same with Shakespeare. The reason these new words were comprehensible to his audience is the same reason the above neologisms are comprehensible to us.
>>7980630
Underrated? They've the most popular and highly rated in their categories.
We just gonna pretend The Comedy of Errors doesn't exist?
>>7980698
Good explanation, thanks dude
>>7980757
No problem man. If you're interested in Shakespeare's language, read David Crystal on the topic:
http://www.davidcrystal.com/?fileid=-4864
>>7980683
lol this fucking clown. He's our very own mini-Trump
>his
lol
But let’s keep things simple. I am a poet. I am also a great poet. I am also a great poet who has written many great sonnets. I am therefore uniquely qualified to focus on & discuss them. Not that I could not provide exegesis of his plays- their dramatic vs. poetic content, etc.- but a sonnet’s very brevity lends it more easily to fruitful explication. & like it or not Shakespeare’s sonnets have the reputation as being the best in the biz. This is a fallacious claim, I believe, because very good arguments could be made for Petrarch’s, Spenser’s, Donne’s, Browning’s, Millay’s, Baudelaire’s, Rilke’s, Frost’s, Lowell’s, Berryman’s, & especially my own Omnisonnets all being better examples of the form’s felicitous engagement.
>>7980097
yep
but you can also make cases for-
tempest
twelfth night
king lear
if you really likely tradtional structure
richard iii
if you really like theatricality
macbeth
if you're a cuck
othello
if you really like le metatheater
midsummer night's dream
but in the end it's hamlet
>>7981066
Not that i know anything about Shakespeare but is antigone really not worth mentioning? My personal fav.
>>7981116
>Not that i know anything about Shakespeare
>is antigone really not worth mentioning? My personal fav.
Obviously you're not a golfer...
>>7981116
Is this bait?
It's definitely not Hamlet.
Tempest is my personal favourite.
>>7980268
>stories
Anyone can write a good story. Almost every single decent thriller or detective story has a tight, well-constructed plot.
What makes Shakespeare the greatest is his language.
>>7981136
Shuh
A midsummer night's dream
*tips fedora*
>>7981066
solid answer
i think Winter's tale deserves a mention pic very related
>>7980367
Good answer.
>>7980088
Niglet
>>7980367
>you can read a lot of Shakespeare and still not catch a substantive glimpse of the man behind the text. You have to look very hard for it. What are his political views? Religious? It's very hard to tell.
...Is it? Is it really that hard to puzzle these things out?
If you've read Shakespeare's History Plays and you think he's being Fair and Balanced, then Congratulations cos... 'cause you're a fool with checkered flags. How could anyone miss this level of political underlining?
And Religion? Where to start? Possibly the Arden family's allegiance to Queen Mary and the profession of Catholicism. Or Shakespeare's father being viewed with mistrust for the same reasons. Naming both daughters after Catholic Apocryphal books. Portraying Martyrs for the Protestant faith as drunkards that smash up pilgrimages, NAMING NAMES (like Oldcastle) and getting busted for it. Is any of this particularly subtle? What about portraying the fall of the Duke of Clarence as a wrongful death? Isn't that politically and religiously situated? In many respects his torture and death would have been viewed as more abhorrent than anything in Macbeth. Richard III is pure Yorksploitationism.
Even Hamlet, performed first in the summer before Elizabeth's death must have had a transgressive quality, as it connects the jester Yorick to the chronologically later History Plays. Much of this kind of thing may have produced real outrages, if theatre had been taken seriously at the time.
>>7980801
WUZ
>>7980097
Agreed
>>7980088
Titus Andronicus
>>7980630
Pls no, cornfather.
do we all agree that romeo and juliet is his most overrated?
>>7982632
No. While I loathe the characters of Romeo & Juliet, and I find their love preposterous, R&J is one of Shakespeare's most innovative plays in terms of dramaturgy. Remember Polonius' meta-theatrical speech in Hamlet before the play within the play. He mentions tragedy, comedy, history and then "tragicomedy" which is a portmanteau neologism. That genre did not exist until Shakespeare invented it with R&J. The play is a comedy that turns quickly into a tragedy. Mercutio's wordplay is god-tier as well.
So no. . . you're wrong.
>>7982632
for sure
heard a prof once say the only point in reading r/j is for the sonnets
I can't wait for it to be 100 years from now, so people will stop pretending The Tempest is a masterpiece.
>>7982690
t.. pleb
>>7982718
t. post-colonial cuck
>>7982632
Yes but also the most essential.
Literally 80% of good modern drama has elements from Romeo and Juliet (star-crossed lovers from rival factions, etc etc)
>>7980088
>mfw most of /lit/ has never even gone to a play
>>7982724
>mfw most of /lit/ has never memorized a shakespearean monologue
>tfw know 1k+ lines of shakespeare plays and 8 sonnets by heart
feels good man
>>7982690
Tempest is great beyond the BS post-colonial ideology projected onto it.
>>7982758
That's why it was so popular before post-colonialism, right?
>>7982490
QUAYNES
>>7980088
Anyone have any explanation why Hamlet took his time getting to Claudius? I hear one explanation is that he liked how he killed his father and married his mother, so in a way he empathized him because of his Oedipal complex
>>7984286
did you even read the play? he reasons out exactly why
>>7984509
Sure he didn't kill him when he was praying but he could have done it sooner.
>>7980088
I enjoyed the Tempest, and with the right appreciation of it as a text of war, Macbeth is pretty great too.
>>7984534
Like, immediately after seeing his father's ghost.
>>7980088
Waiting for Godot
>>7982455
I'm not saying it's not there, only that you have to look for it. I don't know if you're so deep into your Shakespeare studies that you can't tell, but none of the things you brought up really meet the eye in an obvious or straightforward way. Especially non-textual evidence like his daughters' names. If you re-read what I said, particularly regarding the comparisons to Milton and Petrarch, you'll surely agree that there's a vast difference in how much of the author's ego is invested into the literature, right?
>>7982763
? The play never changed, only the criticism of it. What people say about something doesn't dictate what it is, you turbo-pleb.
>>7985839
not him, but yes it does, you pre-postmodern pleb
>>7984546
also explained. why do you think he put on the play?
>>7986393
Catch the conscience of the king. He could have taken the ghost's word for it though.
>>7986405
are you being deliberately obtuse?
>>7986424
I guess the ghost can't be considered reliable then. No, I'm just rereading his play and I'm asking the question myself. I've read other books that said that's a big question of hamlet too so i thought it would be an interesting question to ask here.
>>7980097
True. I enjoyed Macbeth more though.
>>7986424
wheredoyouthinkyouare.jpeg
Okay okay but we can all agree the Winter's Tale is his absolute worst, right?
>>7980123
>I seriously want to read his stuff but I'm not a native speaker so it's really hard.
You're better off sometimes. English natives don't have a clue about thou/you differences, while you may because of your first languages.
>mfw no Britbong faggot knows something's happening when a brother calls his brother "you" all of a sudden
Faggots. Die.
>>7986441
What's wrong with it?
>>7986441
two gentlemen of verona
>>7986441
Leontes' crazed monologues are among of my favorite from the entire canon. So no, we cannot agree.
>>7981310
Every so often when I see somebody have to leave a room in a hurry, the phrase "Exit, pursued by a bear" pops into my head and I have to stop myself from giggling.
>>7980094
> King Lear is usually considered by modern scholarship to be his best.
I've never understood this. Not one character in the play is marvelous on the level of Falstaff, Hal, Coriolanus, Prospero, Shylock, etc. Not one. A few extremely great snippets of poetry, I suppose, but few think of its poetics when they think Lear.
> Other contenders are 1H4, Tempest and Macbeth.
Macbeth's poetry is a bit bland, but it's a fun one as a play. 1H4 is my favorite. Tempest is probably his smartest play.
>>7980123
Reading shakespeare will help your vocabulary.
>>7986438
Nahhhhhh watching is great to get his drama and awful for his poetry aspect. Reading is bad for drama and great for understanding his poetics. Both are necessary. Don't be a memer.
>>7986743
yeah that one is so bad that all I remember about it is a dog named Crab
>>7986441
no
>>7984286
1) he's hesitant by nature
2) waits until his uncle's soul is dirty enough to send to hell instead of purgatory/heaven
3) has to be sure
4) depressed
5) because it'd be a 2 act play and there wouldn't be the beautiful graveyard scene
Really, it's his indecision that makes it such a good play. Maybe I'm alone, but his graveyard speech really gave me his feeling of dread just perfectly. That sort of battle against apathy, and battle over anxiousness, and battle against suicide is really just fantastic. There's an emotion there so wonderfully expressed -- listlessness -- that there is no place in all the rest of Shakespeare IMO where his poetry so wonderfully just plants Hamlet's seed of doubt into the reader. It's the way he says it, the inaudible sigh we feel when he picks up Yorick's skull, that is not matched in Shakespeare.
That being said, I have to agree slightly with TS Eliot in that especially in the beginning of the play, Shakespeare sets up the background for Hamlet's depression very poorly. If you can get over that, the rest feels extremely natural
>>7980803
hey dan long time no see
measure for measure is most underrated, twelfth night is most overrated
>>7987104
don't spook me
>>7987438
Can't be underrated if it sucks.
>>7980088
>ctrl+f "much ado"
>0 of 0
My grade 11 high school teacher did a lot of great things, and one of them was introducing me to Shakespeare's comedies.
>>7987691
It's fine but it's overrated by beta spergs who self project as Benedick. You're probably one of them
