What went wrong?
9/11 changed the course of history, everyone lost hope in our leaders, we needed real heroes, we got the comic-book movie boom, but they were darker and grittier because everybody's worldview had been darkened, and they're all great movies and I can't wait for Civil War. So the century is going pretty damn well so far, I'd say, save the loss of David Foster Wallace.
outstanding shitpost, anon
10/10 points for shittiness, 8.5/10 points for postiness
nothing. people complain about things ruining these generations but on a personal level its all just spooks
>>7898605
why do you faggots only post this gay bullshit after janitor apps are closed
at least warn me this is coming first, fuck
btw, the worst posters are definitely amerifats, i know it's midnight EDT
>>7898605
>He reads the first 16 pages and then dismisses the whole thing as shit
>>7898615
>everyone lost hope in our leaders
in the XX century writters lost faith in mankind due to WW2; yet; they manage to create many literally movements from such despair.
And it not like there isn't actual topics to write about, like technology and isolation
>>7898605
You should ask yourself what went right before it first. The answer is "not much".
>>7898644
>he eat the whole shit sandwich just to be sure it was a shit sandwich
>>7898646
So are you complaining about the lack of quality literature to be produced in these past 16 years? Because that's pretty retarded considering that most things that are later considered classics take decades to be published and possibly even longer to be rediscovered and "canonized" since most of them initially flop.
>>7898668
no, I am complaining the lack of a literary movement to begin with
>>7898677
The idea of movements is for faggots who can't think for themselves anyway.
>>7898691
le "just bee myself" movement has produce crappy results so far
>>7898615
impact of 9/11 is grossly overstated partly due to immediacy
9/11 will be a minor paragraph in history books by the time we hit the 22nd century
>>7898705
Who says anyone's BEEing themselves? People are memed the fuck out by mass-media and marketing on a daily basis. No one published in the past 17 years isn't a media-addled drone who just does, thinks about, and writes what Big Bro sez. Real literature isn't publishable because the industry has no interest in actually individualistic expression surfacing. It's just not safe.
>>7898707
Speaking of the 22nd Century, I'm actually writing a book about it now.
>>7898716
it's probably shit but good luck anyway
>>7898721
That's about the response I expected.
>>7898707
I feel sorry for the historians who have to write about the beginning of the 21st century.
Reading 'diverse voices' became more important than whether those voices are worth hearing.
Younger writers seem to know nothing about literature before the 20th century or in languages other than English.
Most writers seem content to use the tools of realist narrative without asking themselves whether they are appropriate.
>>7898762
>Younger writers seem to know nothing about literature before the 20th century
I know this is going to trigger you fags, but there really isn't that much worth knowing t b h. You've got Shakespeare, a bunch of poets, and maybe one or two novels of note.
>>7898772
>this is what plebs tell themselves to rationalize their plebbery
All dystopian fiction happened
>>7898772
I might agree if you meant before the 19th century. But since you mean 20th you have triggered me.
>>7898816
>truggered
SJW
The real reason is that pre-internet people on the whole could be viewed as an abstract entity ("the masses" etc) which were silent and were only able to voice their opinions via political action etc and whose identity were formed largely by politicians, journalists, novelists etc. Now people have been granted their voice via twitter et al. and all you realize is that most are just fucking retarded. It's probably better that this is the case in terms of personal autonomy etc but still the cult of the public projected personality has ruined things beyond repair. Only Virtual Reality will fix things. All I want from life is to exist in a completely solipsistic universe as the master of a harem of cute catgirls.
>>7898605
Slave morality. The Force is unbalanced desu.
>>7898665
>the tip of the sandwich is dipped in shit therefore it's a bad sandwich
it's like you're a normie
>>7898605
Two things: Progressivists and the internet.
Capitalism, obviously. A lot of things that are destroying societies, the earth, and individuals can be traced to having it as the dominant de-facto economic system of the world, where it instills its value on everyone from birth, where money is god and the only sacred thing, and so on. It's like a cancer on civilization that goes by pretty much unnoticed by everyone, even though people see the outward symptoms (and always come up with explanations that tie it to some small, specific thing, and never capitalism itself.)
The people who aren't completely oblivious to it, the ones who at least have some rudimentary notions of what it is and its place in the world are usually its self-enlisted defenders, committed to repeating the same slogans they have been repeating since the Cold War (but communism is for dictators!), instead of actually taking the time to think of how the world could be made better, even if that means an end of capitalism.
Then there are the ones like to think of themselves as shrewd businessmen who have to take the hard decisions, no matter the cost. "Yes", they'll say, "capitalism isn't perfect. But it's the best we have". As if our choice is limited to a pre-defined set of ideologies we have to adhere to religiously. The point isn't that economic system X is better, it's that what we have now, whatever it is, is terrible.
It turns out that nobody is interested in knowledge or reading, so instead of the internet heralding a bright new age of uninhibited access to information, we instead got intensified tribalism as people lock themselves in echo chambers.
>>7899410
This.
>>7899443
>destroying societies, the earth
spooky
>>7899461
Explain
>>7899488
21st century Western society is a culmination of the Enlightenment, popular sovereignty, democracy, and especially the post-war liberalism of the 20th century which was fundamentally a successful attempt at severing our ties with any sort of meaningful moral, theological or cultural tradition. Now we have a culture based on individualism, moral and cultural relativism, where we have no sense of who we are or what our purpose is as a civilization. Moreover, all of this has coincided with the degradation of morals and public life through mass communication like the TV and especially the internet, which gives a voice to people who have nothing of importance to say, whose opinions are crude, uninformed and harmful, and degrade culture to a level of absolute mediocrity. All of this, really, is a historical inevitability of democracy and egalitarianism.
>>7899502
>which gives a voice to people who have nothing of importance to say, whose opinions are crude, uninformed and harmful, and degrade culture to a level of absolute mediocrity.
No you!
>>7899502
Aristocracy or facism don't lead to anything better, artistically speaking. There'd be less saturation but you'd have no guarantee that muh fascist morals would give you anything worthwhile.
>>7899546
futurism was dope tho
>>7899502
yeah we need to go back to a time of melodramatic reductionist statements. god bless
>>7899546
The best art was produced during the monarchic period and the immediate post-monarchical period. The reason there hasn't been good art since is because of the reasons I stated.
>>7899549
it was really one of the weaker modernisms
>>7899502
>Now we have a culture based on individualism
how?
>>7899559
you liked it when art was lying to itself?
>>7899561
well, it's still dope and better than whatever the fuck we have in visual arts nowadays.
>>7898760
and they'll feel sorry for you for having to live in this horrid age.
>>7899562
Because there is no meta-ideology like nationalism, Christianity etc. There is only a sort of tacit meme culture of "did you see that thing on the news?" or "did you hear that new song?" which means the greatest citizen is also the best consumer, i.e. the person who consumes the best and is able to consume the best among his / her peers.
infantalization (pic related) and early-early-stage mechanization.
infantalization has been par for course from the 1970s on. US trades manufacturing for services and so we get hedonism. no single controlling force, but the overwhelming direction is anti-communitarian godless self-realization, sponsored by mountain dew, etc.
mostly parenthood solves this problem but until then people are locked in the hollow consumerist loop.
second part: swapping manufacturing for services means slow-motion death of the middle class. nature of service economy is polarization of employees: a few high-value, most expendable or overseas. add robots to this mix and you get current state of degree inflation, whole careers of 'horizontal promotion', zero collective bargaining power, rich people who are richer than ever before, etc.
it will all be resolved in 20 years when political revolution occurs belatedly in China and, to avoid following suit the US is forced to dispense basic income. which will be signed into law by President Chelsea Musk-Clinton.
>>7899582
i don't think so
>>7899618
that just says it hasn't been refined yet into something 'respectable'
>>7899623
Life sucks. It's a fact as much of a statement. It was shit in 1000 b.c. and it's shit now. Society is irrelevant when you make these kind of estimations. You could live in whatever age, if you're miserable you will find ways to find the source of your misery in society.
>>7899632
work sucks, i know
>>7898605
Us.
>>7899635
SHE LEFT ME ROSES BY THE STAAAIRS
>>7899637
...and they had no choice but to award him the highest of all possible grades, 3 Pacific islands and a go on all their daughters, for he had simply dumbfounded them all...
>>7899621
This is interesting. Where can I read more?
Other than your diary desu
the joos
>>7899621
Deindustrialization has been occurring since the late 1950s, it didn't just begin in the 70s. Manufacturing industry was only artificially stimulated in America by WWII which also ended up forming a class compromise by bring together all classes after they had to serve in the war together.
It's funny that left wing middle class radicals now-a-days have come full circle and embraced Milton Friedman monetarist ideas. Remember that the Nixon administration was thinking about implementing basic income already back in the 70s.
>>7899632
While this isn't entirely untrue, I'd say that there are different extents to which it sucks depending on various factors. So yes, it has always sucked and still does, but it sucks less now in some ways than it used to and more in others. It's all relative.
>>7899502
>All these ideological buzzwords
This is what academia does to people. Allows them the false belief that the world can be explained by labeling opinions.
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>>7899728
his approach isn't even academic. there is no systematic development of his ideas or any real evidence; he's just stating things.
>>7899736
He's throwing out a ton of gibberish disguised as intellect:
>sovereignty
>liberalism
>individualism
>relativism
>egalitarianism
As if he thinks people and societies are so simple as to be classified definitively.
>>7898713
>individualism
>self-expression
you're as memed as anyone else.
>>7899752
Bandwidth killer; seamless enable efficient infomediaries visualize extend applications peer-to-peer: solutions customized best-of-breed. World-class B2B user-centred widgets content integrate monetize customized granular capture cross-media e-tailers technologies innovative reinvent initiatives synergize weblogs. Scale interfaces proactive wikis, "synergies expedite transition evolve initiatives implement reinvent podcasts!" Interactive e-business.
>>7899728
>>7899736
They're not mere buzzwords, everything you read in my post has an actual meaning, if you can't figure it out that's your own problem. And as if there's any point being academic in a 4chan post (need I remind you that's where we are), these are obviously just my opinions but nevertheless there's still some definite truth in what I said.
>>7899776
>mere
>>7898605
Crumbling of the rationalist liberal democratic order, which for a moment appeared to be about to take over the globe and bring about the end of history. Rebirth of messianism and apocalyptic visions, from the Neocons, on to Dugin and the caliphate. The Internet, formerly though of as a panacea, mostly isolates people and amplifies mental illness. Social Media is a reality TV netherworld where the individual is forced to become the manager of a multimedia brand. mass culture became inescapable and more alienating than ever. Memes Have evolved into a folk-art expression of modern anguish. Iraq was a catastrophic fuck up for the American empire, Nam was a minor indiscretion in comparison. Politics has been reduced to pure spectacle with just a tenuous relation to reality. There's a good chance the first battles of World War III are already being fought in the Levant.
>>7899654
read the financial times on a weekly basis, brush up on statistics, and keep an excel file stash of reports produced by St Louis Fed, IMF, world bank, etc. it will take you about 4 months to learn the necessary stats background if you use khan academy and have a 6th-grade level of math comprehension.
>>7899672
your observation is correct. everyone has been pulled to the right; this was boosted by Bill Clinton's successful 'triangulation' whereby he basically stole 'compassionate conservatism' and turned it into the Democrats' base platform.
However even he, a talented demagogue, was only responding to existing needs; early-stage globalization, collapse of 'new deal', had already made leftists look like backwards cucks and free-market conservatives (Thatcher, Regan) look like prophets who understood the route to economic growth.
>>7899502
The neomonarchists are probably the most autistic people in this board. Most likely deluded NEETs who feel certain they are members of a natural aristocracy and superior to the filthy proles. In a fair world they would be our Kings.
>>7898615
>first post
>DFW
>>7898707
But then again no, since 9/11 was used as the flimsy rationale for the war in Afghanistan, destabilizing the Middle East, later the zeitgeist in the aftermath of 9/11 made it possible for the US and their coalition to invade Iraq on an even flimsier pretext, this later contributed greatly to the rise of ISIS, but much more importantly caused massive refugee streams in to Europe, leading to a strong polarization in european countries between highly spooked right wing flag-humpers and self-annihilating left wing cucks, which is tearing apart cohesion in society, and will most likely lead to the collapse of western civilization.
>>7899618
The funny thing is I'm currently reading a early 20th century (1929) book and people are always either talking about that, forming rackets or insulting each other. You just thing life was this idyllic paradise in the land of traditionalism but you're assuming a lot of things that are commonplace now haven't been so since forever.
How about what went right?
>>7899852
What I'm doing is finding ways to justify my own misery.
>>7899732
nice try, here's your (you).
Now, go back to reading your GRRM and leave the rest of us to discuss things beyond your capabilities.
>>7899748
What's the deal with you "you can't generalize :^)" faggots? You're the second one I had to deal with in 12 hours.
Yeah, we know you can't fully categorize the whole of the fucking human population, but you're very dumb if you A) think those words are gibberish and are unfamiliar with them B) doesn't see where he's coming from and how his proposition work.
And I don't even fully agree with him, I just want anti-intellectual stemtards to leave.
ppl no longer have a sense of life as being lived by themselves. that is the base for creating and living a culture. without a culture theres no raw material for any of the arts.
>>7898615
non-american here. no one gives a shit about 9/11 in my country.
i guess it did give all your bastard politicians and agencies the excuse to snoop on the world and allow it to fuck privacy in its ass.
god i hate murica.
>>7898605
>1989 happened
>>7899461
Quality post, top discussion.
>>7900247
Belief in culture as self-representation promotes cultism and produces cultists, not art or artists.
>>7899852
Well, cultivating the cult of the individual is also a really good way to sell people shit and advance capitalism's ideology, so I'd say it's a pretty recent thing, yes.
When have people been so conspicuously concerned about their health and "good looks", to the point of it being a commodity or sorts, able to be bought at gyms, spa salons, green food? Was there ever a time when everyone was more removed from their surroundings and other people?
Population is increasing, resources are decreasing, indirectly causing conflict on all fronts, and the climate situation is not helping.
We've done a marvelous job at distracting us from it, but our species is uneasy because external factors are uneasy.
And that affects our culture and attitudes.
So does technology, most of the world is on an unprecedented information and media high, in witch the consequences can be felt but is yet to be clearly understood.
We can consume and distract ourselves more readily than ever, and I suspect we haven't fully adjusted to that reality yet.
>>7901379
>autistocracy
>>7898772
Yeah fuck Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Gogol, Puskin Chaucer, Lermontov, Melville, Dante, Cervantes, Dumas, Whitman, Conrad, Poe, Shelley, Byron, Homer, Aeschylus, Rimbaud, Wilde, Keats, Yeats, Hesse, Flaubert, Gorky, Lear, Milton, and Goethe! They're all shit and and have contributed nothing to literature!
t. contemporary liberal cultural
>>7899502
I agree with you but people aren't ready to hear that freedom isn't necessarily a good thing
>>7899461
Stirner is shit familiae
>>7900258
American here. Nobody gives a shit about what non-Americans think in my country
Americans are the center of international culture, politics, economics, media, and art. What affects us is important because we are the most important nation in the discovered universe. Whether or not you personally are affected by our culture is unimportant because your emotions and culture influences nobody.
>>7899502
Democracy and egalitarianism are fine, it's individualism that's shit. People have no sense of purpose or community because according to the media they are the only thing that matters. Having individual opinions and facets is perfectly alright, but this capitalistic culture of individualism where everyone is """different and special""" despite being influenced into having the same interests and desires was one of the biggest mistakes in the history of mankind. Collectivism is not a be all and end all, as history has shown, but individualism has clearly caused society to descend into a parody of itself.
Lmfao
Itt
Online orgies of pure stupidity
>>7898615
>superhero movies
>great
pick one and one only.
you do realize they're just souless advertisments annoucning the next product on the conveyor belt
>>7902422
>americans
>culture
>art
>media
deluded redneck spotted. the only things you are good at are chomping down burgers and consuming in general. in that sense you are important because you are a capitalist conglomerate's wet dream.
murica is what is everything wrong with the western world.
>>7902422
Oh friend, all of the civilized world thinks America is mediocre or worse, there was a time when you were a center of culture, politics, economics, media, and art, but it is certainly not now. All America is now and all it will ever be is a center of demagogues and stagnation
>>7902634
>being this buttfrustrated
>>7902435
Capitalism is not the root cause of individualism, though. Democracy and egalitarianism go hand in hand with individualism because they place an exaggerated amount of stake in each individuals worth, and this is why individualism as well as mediocrity in culture and public life are the inevitable outcome of those ideologies, and are not the result of 20th / 21st century capitalism as you suggest. A successful society comes naturally when a people have a sense of a common culture that is rooted in a meaningful tradition, and this is what egalitarianism, democracy, liberalism etc. have effectively destroyed. Also I would suggest for a successful society is needed hierarchy and authority (moral authority most importantly), which instill a sense of reverence and humility which we are now totally lacking and a sense of duty and obligation, all of which are necessarily rooted in a meaningful tradition.
>>7903027
Traditions are just tired old memes though. They've run their course. What we need is a meme to end all memes; a Dankopalypse.
>>7903027
>A successful society comes naturally when a people have a sense of a common culture
Try to back up your claims, rather than reciting anachronistic spells you read in your magic books, senpai.
>>7903066
I don't see anybody backing up the claim that capitalism is the root of all evils, or any of the other claims in this thread for that matter. You could always research historical examples of successful communities and why they worked, or you could look at present day examples of countries where individualism and relativism and low morals haven't come to the forefront of society and the reasons why they haven't; the evidence more likely than not will point towards my conclusions.
>>7903075
>the evidence more likely than not will point towards my conclusions.
Not at all. What societies do you have in mind? Slaves-driven communities, or feudal systems that relied on massive exploitation of 90% of people, with arbitrary rights granted to their inbred, incestuous rulers?
>>7903085
Look at the clan systems of the Song and Ming Dynasties in China; Japanese society in the Edo period; Korea during the Joseon Dynasty; Sweden in the Middle Ages- just a few that you can read up on.
The west has been effectively depoliticized, and writers are left to write only about their personal struggles and distresses and pretend it's universal like the petit bourgeois they are.
>>7903108
Right. Ming Dynasties fell out not because of democracy, but because the system grew stale and rulers became corrupt. Same with any Chinese dynasty until the Kuomintang took over. What's your point?
There may be good kings, but clans and dynasty, without checks and balances, will grow corrupt and abuse their powers. Such have been the trend of all the eras you pointed out.
Regardless, the slave mentality of people wishing for an omnipotent ruler that could dictate over their petty lives is beyond me. Are you this desperate?
This ballad will explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lWAhwGPilU
>tfw they knew in the late 60s....
We didn't listen.
Nothing.
>>7899502
>someone posts a perfectly reasonable analysis that is somewhat reactionary
>half of /lit/ goes batshit insane
I'm loving neo-reactionaries more and more.
>>7903027
>Capitalism is not the root cause of individualism, though. Democracy and egalitarianism go hand in hand with individualism
honestly, capitalism, democracy and egalitarianism are all "flour from the same bag" as a saying goes in my language
>>7903731
you must be stupid
>>7903769
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This thread is absolutely cringeworthy.
