A lot of anons in another thread were interested in reading The Cantos together, so I made this thread to discuss a possible schedule and get more anons in on it. What times work best for people who are interested? What pace should we read at? What are the things we need to do to make this as fun and pleasant as possible? Most importantly, why is Ezra Pound so sexy?
Come. Discuss. Contribute.
someone explain all the diff editions of the cantos. what copy should i get?
>>7889317
As far as I know, other than the physical traits of the book, there really isn't much of a difference between any of the editions, so I'd just get the one in the pic, which is nice, simple, and, as I've learned carrying it around, pretty durable. If you have scrilla, I recommend getting A Companion to The Cantos of Ezra Pound, which explains in great detail the thousands of references in The Cantos that, without it, would be difficult--in some cases, impossible--to get.
I would be okay with doing it any time in the summer. I thought I heard there were different editions that didn't match exactly too but idk.
>>7889511
I don't know. I doubt the differences are too extreme.
A fair amount of the companion is on Google Books. There's also always a library.
>>7889309
What should we read in order to garner at least a vague understanding of the poems?
>>7889750
The odyssey for canto 1
Summer would be best for me too, that would give me time to get the Companion book -- also, why is it so expensive? $35 on Amazon for the companion. I'm sure I could find one at my library or local bookstore, though.
I am in, gotta buy me a copy... summer would be great. june probably would be best for me but may would work too.
i'd like to say keep it at an intense pace! i participated in the Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow reading groups, and I found most people losing interest due to the easy pace we had. just a warning, i donn't believe either of those groups finished the books. gravity's rainbow petered off at the start of Part 3
>>7889750
You'll want to read The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Divine Comedy, and have a good understanding of Greek, Roman, and Egyptian mythology. The companion should save you from most reading requirements.
>>7889888
It's a good companion, anon.
>>7890095
Well, we can try to make it more engaging by having trivia or something.
>>7890138
>You'll want to read The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Divine Comedy,
Good, good, good
>and have a good understanding of Greek,
fuck
>Roman, and Egyptian mythology.
FUCK FUCK
>>7890144
The companion should take care of most of the references, and I'm sure other anons can fill in the blanks it doesn't.
Has /lit/ ever had a poetry reading group before? I feel we have made progress as a board since I started browsing.
>>7890168
As far as I know, no, there hasn't been any group poetry readings. And I agree: /lit/ is changing, growing up.
>>7889309
9pm London time would suite me, or basically around this time right now. I've read the Cantos but I'm constantly coming back to it, because it's so demanding.
>>7889309
um... this book isnt on our top 100 chart tho? im only interested in those books. why are we reading this book? I've never even heard of it... unless of course we turn it into a meme; then i'll be open to reading it
>>7890226
Same. I was hoping that reading it as a group will help myself and others understand it better.
>>7890320
Never been on it. What's it like?
>>7890333
bunch of /soc/ tier camfagging and almost no literature discussion
>>7890340
That's a shame.
Count me in. I will get the Cantos and the companion text when I get my check on Friday.
>>7890389
Sweet, man. It might be a while until everyone is ready, but feel free to read ahead.
a good prep for this would probably be some of his other work. his nonfiction gives a good insight into what he was going for and what he valued. The recordings of his readings are also good for understanding him a bit better
anyone have a view/experience on these two companions? which is better? are they linked to any particular edition of the cantos?
http://www.amazon.com/Companion-Cantos-Ezra-Pound/dp/0520082877/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1459891368&sr=8-2&keywords=pound+cantos
http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Cantos-Ezra-Pound-Revised/dp/0892552468/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1459891368&sr=8-3&keywords=pound+cantos
>>7889317
Earlier editions didn't have the few cantos originally in Italian. Really early editions had the references to the Rothschilds censored
>>7889309
very problematic author.
>>7890475
retard tripfag
>>7890475
very problematic poster
>>7890461
I have the Companion, which, so far, has proved invaluable in understanding The Cantos.
Is Pound a meme? I found a copy of his Cantos and it had Chinese symbols inside.
>>7890475
Once again Tallis is right
>>7892329
Kind of, but that doesn't mean he is bad.
Let's do a Google group or something instead of making a thread every day on /lit/.
I'm trying to spend less time on this site.
Jesus, I have lived with some of his cantos for about six years now... I still remember the first time I read Canto LXXXI...
I don't post that much on 4chan anymore but I would certainly be glad to reread the book with you. I'm currently reading one which's going to take me some three or four more days and I'll have a lot of uni work to do later this month, but I suppose I can find some time.
I also own a guide to the Cantos and know a little bit about Pound, so I guess I can help with that.
I rarely see The Cantos being discussed here. Pynchon, Wallace and others are quite simply literary midgets when compared to Pound. They are provincial; Pound, universal.
>>7892329
Pound is the greatest poet of the English language - and in my opinion of the whole world - since Shakespeare, or since Donne at least. His influence was and still is enormous. He was certainly the most influential poet of the second part of the 20th century here in my country and no, I do not live in the US, I live in Brazil.
Yet
Ere the season died a-cold
Borne upon a zephyr’s shoulder
I rose through the aureate sky
Lawes and Jenkyns guard thy rest
Dolmetsch ever be thy guest,
Has he tempered the viol’s wood
To enforce both the grave and the acute?
Has he curved us the bowl of the lute?
Lawes and Jenkyns guard thy rest
Dolmetsch ever be thy guest
Hast ’ou fashioned so airy a mood
To draw up leaf from the root?
Hast ’ou found a cloud so light
As seemed neither mist nor shade?
Then resolve me, tell me aright
If Waller sang or Dowland played
Your eyen two wol sleye me sodenly
I may the beauté of hem nat susteyne
And for 180 years almost nothing.
Ed ascoltando al leggier mormorio
there came new subtlety of eyes into my tent,
whether of the spirit or hypostasis,
but what the blindfold hides
or at carneval
nor any pair showed anger
Saw but the eyes and stance between the eyes,
colour, diastasis,
careless or unaware it had not the
whole tent’s room
nor was place for the full EidwV
interpass, penetrate
casting but shade beyond the other lights
sky’s clear
night’s sea
green of the mountain pool
shone from the unmasked eyes in half-mask’s space.
What thou lovest well remains,
the rest is dross
What thou lov’st well shall not be reft from thee
What thou lov’st well is thy true heritage
Whose world, or mine or theirs
or is it of none?
First came the seen, then thus the palpable
Elysium, though it were in the halls of hell,
What thou lovest well is thy true heritage
What thou lov’st well shall not be reft from thee
The ant’s a centaur in his dragon world.
Pull down thy vanity, it is not man
Made courage, or made order, or made grace,
Pull down thy vanity, I say pull down.
Learn of the green world what can be thy place
In scaled invention or true artistry,
Pull down thy vanity,
Paquin pull down!
The green casque has outdone your elegance.
>>7892466
“Master thyself, then others shall thee beare”
Pull down thy vanity
Thou art a beaten dog beneath the hail,
A swollen magpie in a fitful sun,
Half black half white
Nor knowst’ou wing from tail
Pull down thy vanity
How mean thy hates
Fostered in falsity,
Pull down thy vanity,
Rathe to destroy, niggard in charity,
Pull down thy vanity,
I say pull down.
But to have done instead of not doing
this is not vanity
To have, with decency, knocked
That a Blunt should open
To have gathered from the air a live tradition
or from a fine old eye the unconquered flame
This is not vanity.
Here error is all in the not done,
all in the diffidence that faltered . . .
>>7889750
Buy a companion.
BUT... I seriously recommend reading the ABC of Literature first, and some of his early poems. Pound's oeuvre is a whole world, and these will serve as a useful map. It's good to know something about the geography of Rome before entering in it.
Pound's thoughts about poetry are the most didatical and the most relevant yet written. The ABC of Reading is today's equivalent of Aristotle's Poetics. Besides textbooks which demonstrate how to write in different poetical forms, this is the only book from which I have actually *learned* something about poetry.
Another wonderful thing about Pound is that he presents to you a whole new world of poets which are still very little known, from the author of the Seafarer and the Japanese dramatists to troubadours like Bertrans de Born and an anonymous guy (John Oldham, apparently) who wrote one beautiful poem in the 17th century.
Pound edited an anthology called 'Confucius to Cummings'. I have never found it in my country, but it seems to be a nice reunion of all which he thought really worth reading. If you have the means to buy it, then it would probably help you to understand The Cantos.
>>7890461
I have the Guide, which is very good. Seems that both of these books can do the job pretty well, which clearly indicates that you should buy the cheapest one.
>>7892443
I'll see if I can set one up.
>>7892461
>Pynchon, Wallace and others are quite simply literary midgets when compared to Pound.
Agreed. I get so sad sometimes when people just write him off as nonsensical.
>>7892465
I mostly agree, though I think Hart Crane could have surpassed him had not killed himself.
>>7892495
> I get so sad sometimes when people just write him off as nonsensical.
The problem is that these people are precisely that: just people - professors, critics, poetasters, common readers. The greatest writers of the 20th century have paid enormous tributes to Ezra Pound - even Jewish writers like Ginsberg, even a communist writer whose brother had been kill by fascists like Pasolini.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YJSG1C3sF8
no epub or mobi of The Cantos, senpai?
– You let in the Jew and the Jew rotted your empire, and you yourselves out-jewed the Jew ... And the big Jew has rotted EVERY nation he has wormed into.
wew lad, I wonder what he would think of the muslims today
>>7892558
I'll try to find one soon.
>>7889740
I wish I lived in a city with a nice enough library to have one.
>>7892581
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he sympathized with them, since it's kind of America's fault the middle east is how it is.
>>7893647
I regret nothing.
>>7892507
i remember reading in some book of his that pasolinis brother was killed by a yugoslavian communist brigade since he was part of an italian catholic faction accused of being fascists. i can screenshot the section if it can't be found online. pasolini was also later kicked out of the communist party for being a gay
>>7893764
ur rasist
I have his book sitting on my shelf, and am right now "waiting" for a good opportunity to read it. I'd gladly participate if you anons started a reading group together.
>>7893880
Great! Unless you want to read a little on your own( which is completely fine), you may have to wait a few weeks, so keep your eyes open for any updates.
>>7893823
You're right. My memory had failed me. Nevertheless, Pasolini was very left-leaning and had a great distaste for fascism. Still, his love of Pound's poetry shows very well how the great man's works impacted basically every single great writer of his day and of all days since and yet to come.
>>7893946
For real, though. There isn't a big name in the literary world that wasn't in some way influenced by Pound.
I'm definitely on board with this. Would also like to echo the calls for a relatively high pace.
>>7894955
Great! How many pages per week do you think would be good?
I have a copy of pic related and will help with translations when and if I can
>>7896090
Someone could always try to make a photocopy.
hahaha 99% of you will give up within two weeks and the last guy will quit when he has nobody left to guide him through
>>7897013
probably accurate :|
>>7895940
nah fuck that keep it on /lit/
>>7897013
I won't, even if everyone else quits.
>>7897018
Well, if you don't want to join the group, just post in the threads, which I'll create every week.
>>7890168
no because /lit/ is legitimately retarded and especially retarded when it comes to poetry and the one or two guys that actually know something about poetry got tired of you apes asking them the same questions over and over and still not understanding yet insisting you undergrads are 100% correct 100% of the time as if you're experts. there's no point in a poetry reading group because the two guys that know anything will get tired and leave and then it'll be a circle jerk of retarded misinformation, uninformed opinions and misinterpretation
>>7897044
No point in not trying, anon. We have to start somewhere.
>>7893647
youre adorable
>>7897073
I know :3
>>7897070
make a discord or irc or whatever and i'll answer questions for a few weeks before i get irritated and leave
>>7897085
I'll try.
Just made the google group.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ezra-pound-reading-group
>>7897844
Joined the group.
>>7897844
No.
Patricians use Discord
>>7899314
Just join the group, anon. If you want to use Discord, set it urself.
>>7899314
Set up a discord group or use google.
>>7889888
If you think $35 is expensive, I've got news for you. It costs between $40-$50 in Canada.
i probably won't be able to join you lads bc of other obligations but this seems like a good place to ask: what's the best start to really digging into pound?
obvs the shorter poems + abc of reading but what else? dude wrote so much, also editions, guides etc. and does anyone have ebook versions of that new three volume biography?
>>7900587
You can get most of his poems, excluding his cantos, in a single volume.
Also his essays are in a single volume.
He wrote lots of letters to contemporary artists, his letters to Joyce come in a single volume and are very interesting.
He done a good bit of translating too, his 'translation' of the odes is in one volume too and quite fun but irrelevant as far a the confusion odes are concerned.
The Trial of Ezra Pound by Julien Cornell is well worth reading.
The reason this group probably won't work is because 90% of the participants won't have read any of the above and just want someone to spoon-feed The Cantos to them.
I would suggest using the selected cantos and George Kearns guide to the selected Cantos. There is more than enough content and Pound arranged edition together himself for this exact purpose.
>>7900587
sieburth's intro to 'the pisan cantos'
>>7900632
thanks m8, which essay collection is it cos there's a bunch and they all have different contents from what i can see
>>7900959
The Literary Essays of Ezra Pound, with the introduction by Elliot is a collection of all his essays as far as I know.
>>7901098
i owe you one senpai
>>7901098
so The Literary Essays will have everything in ABC of Reading?
>>7901161
No, it has How to Read which was the essay that The ABC of Reading was based on but that is a lot more in depth, not really and essay.
Same with Kulchur, that's not in his Literary Essays.
Both are well worth reading, the ABC of reading is almost a guide to writing.
>>7889309
There was just an article about Pound and The Cantos in the Wall Street Journal. It pretty much could be summarized, "Sigh, another crazed anti-Semite for the dustbin."
>>7893647
Nah, Britain and France had at least as much to do with that mess.
>>7902265
>an article about Pound and The Cantos in the Wall Street Journal
I wouldn't even bother reading that biased drivel.
>>7902302
Seconded
>>7901564
I'm probably going to start up a discussion about the schedule today.
>>7892581
Well, Ezra Pound hated Jews for usury while Muslims don't believe in usury, so let that sink in for awhile...
Is Posthumous Cantos any good?
>>7892461
If Pound were "universal" wouldn't more people read his oeuvre? Do you mean his own reading is "universal" in that he read widely? Or are you literally using that word improperly?
>>7903845
Read it with us and find out.
>>7903892
>If Pound were "universal" wouldn't more people read his oeuvre?
No, because he's a fascist, and people are babies.
