Where do i start with chinese literature?
read some wuxia and skip the rest
chinese lit is shit
Magic Mountain
Soul Mountain by Gao Xingjian.
In terms of tone, it's similar as experimental, absurdist work like Samuel Beckett.
If you want something more concrete, try Red Sorghum by Mo Yan, who resembles Kafka.
the four big ones
>>7876521
which ones are those?
Journey to the West
What pre-Cultural Revolution stuff is of interest?
I'm interested in the period when the nationalists and republicans were trying to bootstrap China into first world status. Before Mao came and cudgeled the entire nation's soul to death, leaving them all mindless zombies.
>>7876372
i would start at her toes and work my way up
>>7876550
That's a dude
>>7876560
goddammit
>>7876549
im interested in this too
even if the ends justify the means, mao still did many things wrong
>>7876372
Can't stop seeing Jennifer Tilly
>>7876538
Journey to the West
Dream of the Red Chamber
Water Margin
Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Start with the earliest Chinese literature regarded as great or influential and read in chronological order. Same as with Western literature.
>>7876560
Even better.
>>7876601
arent there other chinese novels from the earlier eras, that arent big 4?
>>7876653
Yes. There's 聊斋 (Chinese Studio Ghost Stories), which is a series of, often quite funny, ghost stories; 浮生, Records of a Floating Life; 金瓶梅, Plum in the Golden Vase, a smutty romance that ought to be the fifth great classic; 牡丹亭 Peony Pavilion. Tang Dynasty Poetry is also sublime, if unrenderable in English.
May 4th has Lv Xun, who's True Story of Ah Q is hilarious - somewhere between Catch-22 and Death of a Salesman parody of Chinese culture. Kong Yi Ji by Lv Xun is also pretty good. The pinnacle of this era is Shen Congwen who's Border Town is beautiful (though all of his writing is good)
Post Mao, A Cheng is the best, no question. The Chess King is high art. Mo Yan and Wang Shuo write readable, if juvenile stories.
There's lots more, but this is sufficient. Chinese literature doesn't suck, it just doesn't translate well and it doesn't achieve heights that would justify the effort of learning Chinese.
>>7876549
I love it when Americans try to talk like they understand Mao or China. You guys really have no clue at all, do you?
>>7876550
why did it take so long for /lit/ to get names? I swear we were still aynons like the entire first half of the day
>>7877110
Tell me about Mao Ron senpai
>>7876843
Thanks anon, /lit/ needs more people like you
>>7877110
>I know sooo much more than you ;)
It's actually true though. Fuck, ask a Hong Kong or Taiwan Chinese what they think of Mainlanders. Mainlanders are braindead soulless ants with a medieval culture that artificially looks modernised.
>>7877594
Not even. Mao killed chinese culture in China. Little silhouettes of Confucianism are all that remains, people who read or immerse themselves in the classic culture are portrayed as d+d tier basement dwellers, and everyone (even in movies and media) is obsessed with money to a ridiculous degree.
>>7877594
>ask a Hong Kong or Taiwan Chinese
Why would they be experts on a country they don't live in? Besides, they're just as good if not better at being soulless consumerists.
>>7877617
That's true everywhere, anon. That's called capitalism. Quit being such an orientalist little bitch. Might as well blame the US political system for replacing Melville and the myth of the frontier with Wal-Mart and Michael Bay while you're at it.
>>7876563
He hid his Adams apple well, but I reversed searched because something was off
>>7876549
>Before Mao came and cudgeled the entire nation's soul to death, leaving them all mindless zombies.
that's pretty much opposite of what mao did
>>7877850
He turned them into Jews without talent
>>7877855
before that they were obsessed with 2000-year old mandarin shit that was taking them nowhere and got them to be assraped for a century by the west, yet they still thought it was the superior shit worth holding on to
without mao, china would either be a collection of shitty fragmented warring states or a one big dysfunctional and stagnant 3rd world country
>>7877858
>one big dysfunctional and stagnant 3rd world country
That is exactly what china is.
>>7876372
pearl s. buck
won the nobel prize
>>7877866
don't speak if you don't know shit
sure the rural areas are shitholes
in terms of dynamic change there aren't many societies changing as fast as china is, or have changed by same pace
how many people china has lifted out of poverty in the last 20-30 years? 300 million? that's more than the population of the US
where china used to be in global politics? oh that's right, they didn't even have a seat in the UN, fucking taiwan had their seat. they used to be the asslickers of the soviet union. now china is global no2 after USA, no more soviets, and putin doesn't dare to do shit against china
the chinese used to hate being chinese, the backward shits, inferior to the west. now most are actually happy to work and better their society
they're working against the inertia of having a population of over one trillion, of course they're not going to turn into a dynamic libertarian bohemian wonderland in a decade, but give the rich eastern coast there 20-30 years and you may be surprised
meanwhile europe is complacent and genuinely stagnant, holding onto its fading historical relevance but doing nothing towards having any in 50 years from now
>>7877889
>one trillion
Pretty sure it's a gorillion.
>>7877894
that's why seals train in gorilla warfare
>>7877866
>stagnant
>China
You don't even have to be a wumao to call that complete bullshit.
>>7877871
That has to be one of the worst picks in the prize's history.
Is there Chinese Lit that goes hard against Islam or Muslims?
>>7877992
Do they even care?
>>7876372
Start with the Greeks
You don't.
The Chinese are humanoids empty of souls, they can't produce anything of artistic merit.
>>7877979
All their economic growth is a product of extremely cheap labour caused by a huge population and Western technology, capital, and consumption.
The minute the West rethinks their (extremely disadvantageous) relationship with China, they'll collapse.
>>7878914
>>7878923
oh wow... birds
meanwhile in the West
>>7878914
I used to respond to you reasonably, but you repeat yourself too much, come up with new baits and we continue
>>7878942
This is the first time I posted this, Chang.
Get used to this opinion, because it's pretty common among people with souls (non-dog eaters).
>>7878920
you think there is something to rethink about west's relations with china? what insights and better approaches could you, a poster of pictures of amphibians of the anura genus on a vanuatuan cargo cult board, suggest to distinguished diplomats and foreign policy advisors who have worked on china relations for three decades?
>>7878940
>china : appreciation of natural and simple things
>the west: dick sucking a dead jew by over 2000 yests
>>7878957
simply "having the best interests of your nation at heart" does not make you competent at furthering them
>>7878953
>because eating cows or pigs is different
>>7878955
Unfortunately for you, my yellow friend, Westerners also produce far superiour depictions of natural beauty.
>>7878970
that's kitsch as fuck
>>7876843
Very good post, im a little late, but thank you.
>>7878957
"Best interests of my nation"
And those would be?
I presume anyone who disagrees about your version of your nation's "best interests" is an enemy of the state?You drank the Koolaid, you rube!
>>7878968
Dogs have a psychological bond with humans not shared with other animals, Chang. You would know this if you didn't have them for breakfast every morning.
>>7878961
They're obviously incompetent, I haven't been tested yet. That gives me a better track record.
>>7878980
Obviously, not having jobs and money exchanged for worthless plastic shit which breaks after a month's use and which could be produced internally.
>>7878987
Can you find anything painted by contemporary Chinks to compare with Rennaissance Italian art?
>>7878957
wanting to protect the working class is short term thinking that leads to long term stagnation, because the economy and the work market won't readjust itself to suit the 21th century
trying to protect jobs in general is retardry and only leads to being left behind in innovation and in a massive rise of people working unproductively, killing the economy in the long term. of course being a politican and saying this is political suicide. and no Im no schumpeterian. still, you need creative destruction, there's no way around this
>>7878905
They have their very own Uyghurs to take care of.
>>7878914
This desu.
They also have atrocious table manners and can't drive. There's also too many of them.
>>7878940
This is honestly a really fucking gaudy picture to show off with.
>>7876372
You don't. Fuck China.
>>7879495
t. amerifat
>>7877866
Second world. China is a second world country bud.
>>7879982
I was thinking the same thing right now
>>7877889
I'm actually in China right now, you fuck. And not in Shanghai/Beijing... I'm in a small town in Henan, a true representation of how th Chinese live.
You talk of pride and power... what good are these to individuals? Of course they live vicariously through their country's global influence, worse than fucking Americans. That doesn't mean their life is good.
Workers have no rights. I work at a school here- they don't get paid their salary... for a years work they get paid for one or two months, right before spring festival. The company promises them to pay them next year. It's fucked.
>>7877594 is the most right. This place is feudalistic as fuck. There is no culture outside of consumerism. There's more to life than having an iphone6 a cool car and being in a country with a large army.
oh, yea.. and the pollution here is fucked. like, FUCKED. China by far is the 2nd worst non-war-torn country to live in (I imagine india is worse)
FUCK YOU, come live here asshole
>>7880415
Culture only really emerges from civilization. China wasn't allowed to have civilization until after Mao. Really if you want to learn Chinese, look up Taiwanese stuff. They have a culture comparable to Japan or Korea. More consumerist than us? Yea. But not China bad.
I was at a house party in Beijing once and literally listened to some Swedish people argue with a Chinese couple over whether it is possible to have fun without money.
>>7880079
Here let me clear that up for you, China is a poor shithole.
Does anyone actually know anything about classical Chinese literature? May as well pay tribute to the fallen.
>>7880415
reported to the chinese secret police
enjoy your 5-year work camp
>>7880632
>Not sure if shitpost or not
Mao made a concerted attempt to destroy Chinese culture and remove Confucian ideals, and did so to a very large extent
Also, obviously nobody in this thread has ever been in China
>>7880415
Bet you're an American. Americans always react like that to China. You'll go to Thailand next and praise the "culture" and how "spiritual" it seems.
>>7880415
Let me guess you teach English in China
You are literally subhuman just kill yourself retard
>>7880632
>the only big civilization of asia
>don't have culture
nigga you crazy.
>>7880664
To destroy *old* Chinese culture. Not to wipe out culture as a notion. Geez, anon, have you even been to China?
我发现/lit/上的白人都是脑残
>>7880709
除去汤面
>>7880712
Ching chong /lit/ fong doo wong
Chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing chong ching chong
ching chong fong doo wong
>>7880714
We must stop racemixing with the exception of white males and Asian females!
>>7880693
I think he meant China had a great culture until Mao fucking ruined it and made the country North Korea-tier, not that China never had a great culture.
>>7880664
Have you anon? I visited and knew a bunch of exchange students, but I've never known anyone who lived in China long enough to assimilate or get a real feel for the place
>>7880792
>China had a great culture until Mao fucking ruined it
lmao no
they literally thought that china was the center of the world and no other culture could teach them anything, on top of that they thought that there was nothing new to discover, the best you could do was to understand the old sages better. this kills all cultural dynamism and progress
after mao came to power and post-mao, china's been in constant state of reform and it's got the momentum to keep that going for several decades still. 2056 china will be completely different from current china, a lot more ready to adapt to the changes in technology and new ideas in public policy, something that would've never been possible without mao going insane
>>7880817
I see it. Likely analogous to philosophy in the Middle Ages in Europe consisting almost entirely of commentary on Aristotle, until the Rennaissance which ended the stagnation to some degree.
Still, I think that China figured out how fucked they were around the time of the Opium wars; a Meiji-style ruler would've made a far better transitional figure than Mao.
British Hong Kong and Taiwan lost their cultural hubris without mass deaths and a total disconnect with their pasts.
>>7880847
The Qing dynasty was so weak that even if it wanted to do Meiji type reforms, it couldn't have. China was a patchwork of independent warlord states until the end of WW2. There were some reforms, such as the Beiyang army, but it never really took hold. Far too much corruption, complacency, and weak central authority. I remember reading about one of the Sino-Japanese wars during which several Chinese generals refused to fight the Japanese because they didn't want to waste valuable troops that could be used to maintain their own influence.
Fuck, I wish China was still like that. I would rest a lot easier. They're such frightening people, like some weird alien race.
>>7880847
>Hong Kong and Taiwan lost their cultural hubris without mass deaths and a total disconnect with their pasts
because they were several orders of magnitude smaller. reform becomes progressively easier the smaller the nation is
not saying mao couldn't have done better or that his solution was the only right one but reforming the massiveness that is china is never going to happen clean if you're in a hurry
>>7880847
Aristotle wasn't even known throughout most of the middle ages and it was closer in mindset to modern science than the renaissance which was revival of superstition on a large scale.
>>7880919
Even the Byzantines barely advanced anything over the entire period, similar to what the other guy was saying. Western Europe was essentially trapped in Augustine neo Platonism in the same way.
>>7880847
You're letting the anti-CPC bias common to westerners - usually Americans who still think they "lost China" in 1949 - cloud your analysis of history. Fact is no one but Mao could have reunified China, for reasons >>7880874 and>>7880882 outline pretty well. And anyone who really believes this stuff about the Chinese being brainwashed hyper-capitalist drones doesn't know this country very well. There are people like that; there are devout communists, there are artists, lunatics and everyday people who pray to the Buddha every year at Spring Festival and sing folk songs when they're drunk. China has its own unique culture and history, but it's not some "alien" entity existing outside of the rest of humanity. That's why comments like the ones in this thread piss me off - even the sympathy of "Mao killed sixty gorillion how sad" types is filled with a coded disdain for those alien savages (how dare they still keep him on the banknotes!).
>>7881039
Are you chinese? Not trying to start anything just wanting to ask some things.
>>7881049
No, but I have both studied and worked in China. I've gone through my "man China is shit look at these DRONES" phase and my "man China is great look at this PROGRESS" phase. I can speak Mandarin and some of my best friends are CPC folk, so I'm probably somewhat biased, but I try not to be wumao-tier, so if you have any questions I can try to answer them for you.
>>7881039
>>7881080
As a frequent shitposter about China (though not in this thread) I'll explain.
Qualifications I've lived in China for 5 years (here now). I teach Chinese to Chinese children and am >>7876843 , the only poster thus far to actually answer OP's question.
>>7881039
This post is mostly correct - my boss speaks no English, has seen every film in the criterion collection (hyperbole), and claims, sometimes honestly, to read classic literature in translation. One of my coworkers is an independent artist. There are cool people in China. Poster, however, understates just how lost modern Mainland China is right now. Posters who say there's nothing more to life than owning an iPhone and taking selfies are describing a huge and excessively visible part of the culture. As a foreigner, you'll primarily encounter these people who will treat you as a living English language textbook and speak to you just for the sake of practicing their English (vapid on another level). Since your presence will be a symbol of status, you'll attract the types of money-grubbing, soulless fucks who wouldn't give you the time of day in the West. But the cool cats will, like cool cats everywhere, will mostly ignore you cause they're busy with their own shit.
In other words, as a foreigner, the China you most want access to is the hardest to get at, and the frustrations are profound.
So I encourage the reading of Chinese literature in translation, but shit on China to anyone who wants to learn Chinese to read the classics (knowing that I'm speaking to an audience that can't usually be bothered to do more than pretend to have read Ulysses). I think most people would be better off putting their efforts into Shakespeare than dealing with the frustrations of mainland China.
>>7881114
>>7881080 here, I don't dispute your portrait of China exactly, but surely that's common everywhere? The Chinese are very apparent about it, but even though a lot of my colleagues take selfies and want iphones none of them are what I'd call vapid - just ordinary. Maybe I'm just not /lit/ enough.
>>7876469
Underrated post.
>>7881114
Hm as another regular china shitposter I think this discussion is really important. I live in Japan and receive their brand of "China is lost desu" through TV here and so on.
Does reading lit give you a sense of place or at least somewhat of an understanding of the group you mentioned that's inaccessible to foreigners?
Here I've ran into similar problems and beginning to read books has helped a lot.
Ching chong ping pong
wing long!! kung fu!!
chau chau gwailo
There, I've summed it up for you.
>>7881039
Ok I'm sorry I called them aliens.
It's just stuff like the Cultural Revolution that gives me nightmares. There's still some pretty grisly human rights abuses going on in China today. I live in certain area on the West Coast where there are many, many Chinese people and I can't help thinking of them as a potential massive Fifth Column. I feel like China will come after us and our resources and do unkind things to me and my people.
>>7881126 Undoubtedly like that everywhere, though I do think to a somewhat larger degree in China (classmates from every nation - from Albania to Uzbekistan have all commented on how money obsessed the country is; and think of the number of Chinese traditions related explicitly to the acquisition of wealth - from door posts to fish eating to Buddha worshiping)
My point is just that the "literary China" that people here presumably want to access is harder to get than (I presume) it would be to access say "literary Spain." And, given the additional barrier, time would be better invested elsewhere. tl;dr Devil you know.
Plus the people who are really going to do it - learn Chinese well enough to read Zhuangzi - are not going to put much stock in a 4chan post.
>>7881126
>>7881136
I have to head out at the moment, but I'll check thread later. I do agree important discussion
>>7881146
China doesn't care, honestly. Even at the very top amongst the hardcore communists Chinese political and cultural ideology has changed massively since the Cultural Revolution - you have nothing to be paranoid about in terms of them going full Red Dawn on you.
>>7880415
>spend any time living in China
>call it 'stagnant'
Wowzers. Not sure if you're bad at words or bad at basic observation.
>>7880974
While that's partially true, it can't be said so for Aristotle because it's exactly him who made empiricism possible
Western Europe was also in an economically weak condition full of wars and barbarians, but the Byzantium claim is correct. It's observable today in Orthodox approach to faith and doctrine, they decided that everything was written and discovered theologically in the first 1000 years and now it's almost exactly the same as it was in 1054.
>>7881228
I was getting at that there wasn't a problem with the old works themselves, only worshiping the works as infallible or the end of knowledge.
Plato and his metaphysics weren't responsible for the middle ages, it was the people themselves and constant warfare that did them in; China (I imagine) had the opposite, too much power for too long.
I'm actually really interested in the Orthodoxy, as it's one of the closest things we have to a time capsule about values and so on from those times. How does the modern orthodoxy feel about iconoclasm?
>>7881278
Well they are really big on icons. And their values aren't much different from Catholic ones, assuming we disregard the protestant influence on some German, American and Belgian groups.
>>7881114
>teaches English in China for 5 years
>thinks he knows the country
Standard retard.
>>7881146
you don't really have anything to worry
the chinese cultural makeup is different from the west. they aren't really interested in "subjucating" anything, or conquering, or even projecting power like US does, not really. I mean they've got over a billion Han chinese, how much more subjects could they want anyway. the closest they get to "imperialistic" ambitions is that they'd like the rest of the world to recognize china as a great power, but they're not interested in reshaping anyone in their image, unlike US and the rest of the west.
of course they will play the machiavellian psychopathic international power games when they feel their core interests are in jeopardy, but they aren't really interested in expanding or creating a "one red earth"
>>7881294
Which points do you disagree with and why, anon?
>>7881294
I teach Chinese, not English mother fucker. I've taught Chinese for 3 years.
>> can't read
>> accuses others of retardation.
>>7881136
Fuck. Tried to post this earlier but failed (Captcha requires a VPN...)
I've never read most of the things I recommended in translation (what experience I have was ok. Excerpts of Water Margin were heinously boring in English - not so in Chinese; Journey to the West is meanderingly stupid in either language; and True Story of Ah Q lost a lot of color in English; The Chess King is beautiful in either)
As to understanding hep China through literature. I think it's important to read for a few reasons.
1. Western literature and arts are popular, but knowledge thereof is usually shallow, often for translation reasons. Joyce, Melville, Shakespeare, etc. don't translate well or at all and most translations are done from an English edition (most editions of Anna Karenina are translations of Garnett and a professor of mine said he didn't think a Greek-Chinese translation of Aristotle had ever been undertaken... so six-degrees from Leo Tolstoy). Translations are also often terrible. I've looked over two translations of Walden, one of which was thoroughly inaccurate and the other occasionally contained significant errors (negative sentences rendered as affirmative, etc. Example: Thoreau’s line about regretting that he’s not as wise as the day he was born was rendered: 我始终引为憾的是我依然和过去一样一无所知
) Plus they were entirely colorless - no humor to speak of. New “translation” are frequently just old translations run by a Chinese thesaurus (I met translators who have confessed to this at a Chinese poetry retreat) and there’s a tradition of the translator not knowing the language in question (translations where used as a battle-ground during fights over vernacularization of Chinese and authors “translated” many works of various languages into classical Chinese.
The Chinese classics are well known and common points of reference, even if they’re not always known textually (cf. everyone knows Ahab, nobody has read Moby Dick). For example my film buff boss relates Abbas to the “slice of life” stories in Red Chamber; he loves Kafka and Poe for their similarities to 聊斋 (Kafka in fact did read them; Poe presumably not) and he sees artistic merit in Japanese AV because of his relationship to 金瓶梅.
They’re the apotheosis of Chinese culture. Neither Melville nor Pynchon are Jesus who can absolve America of it’s Micheal Bays and Honey-Boo-Boos, but they at least represent a little penance. Same goes for Ah Cheng and the mindless Chinese drones.
>>7881579
>Chinese lit does often express different values
can you expand on this? would love a short analysis
>>7881568
It does do a lot though. It helps break stereotypes that seem confirmed the longer you stay in the country, and shows you how differences in culture manifest themselves through a familiar medium.
A cursory wiki showed me that Ah Cheng made a group with a bunch of other experimental artists (xingxing) are any of the others any good?
I might give Red Chamber a try in Japanese translation.
>>7881134
Was that you? That post is shit. It's like saying to join the army and never read Rousseau.
>>7881146
USA was just as terrible a couple of centuries ago (native american massacres), so was Europe (various conflicts that wiped out enitre generations) and look at them now.
People can shitpost about China, in favor of, or against, but the world will move on. The impotent goading of 4chan clowns doesn't change the fact that a fully modernized China will cast a shadow on the world.
>>7881584
Two, superficially quick examples about politics/fate:
At the end of Bandits of the Marsh, after reconciling with the emperor, Song Jiang (the leader of the bandits) is treacherously poisoned. Song recognizes that he's going to die and poisons his second in command, the reckless Li Kui who Song knows would rebel against the empire if he lived after Song's death. Before they die, Li Kui and Song Jiang reconcile as Li Kui stays true to his commander to the end. (I don't remember the movie well, but I think "Hero" uses a similar plot).
Journey to the West is likewise a lengthy allegory on the futility of rebellion (to prove his strength, Wu Song flies to the edge of the universe and pisses off the edge, only to learn later that he had merely pissed on Buddha's hand).
Both are explicitly or implicitly Buddhist in their relation to fate, order and submission, but the political overtones are pretty striking as well.
Though Hegel is a hack who was writing about shit he didn't know, his analysis of Chinese culture in "Philosophy of History" isn't entirely off the mark. What's conveyed is that the individual emperor isn't important, he's merely a placeholder in a larger system.
It's admittedly superficial, and Westerners too often get sucked into "Chinese history is cyclical; concept of 天下 and 关系" bullshit that is not as important as they pretend. But "not as important" doesn't mean "not important"
>>7881568
>he sees artistic merit in Japanese AV because of his relationship to 金瓶梅
10/10 would eat chicken's feet with
>>7881619
>I think "Hero" uses a similar plot
I remember that, sounds familiar. IIRC the assassin gets close to the emperor, then realizes/is convinced by the emperor that killing him would only create excessive chaos, and leaves to get killed by the guards, and the emperor declares him a hero
Since we're discussing Chinese art, can anyone recommend me some good jap pornos?
>>7881596
I've never read works by the others listed on the wiki. I personally think a lot of that 798 art shit in Beijing is obnoxious hipster nonsense, but I applaud it being there at all. Ai Weiwei is an asshat ubiquitous in Western media and all but unknown in China.
Good on you for trying Red Chamber. I've always wondered if Japanese literature would be better in Chinese translation. My guess is it would be better for older works and worse for people like Murakami (who seem to my unknowing eyes to write to be translated into English). Do worry some about lack of rigor in Chinese translations though.
>>7878949
it's common of /pol/ to not read the thread and think that they have a valuable new contribution to it anyhow
>>7880415
no, india is better. it may be more of a shithole, but it's a better shithole.
>>7881604
that's a stupid comparison
he's completely right
>>7877858
Have you been to china? it's fucking garbage
>>7882836
>DESIGNATED
>better than anywhere
>>7881306
>white guy claims to be teaching chinese in china
why dont i believe you?
>>7876372
by learning Chinese.
>>7877858
have you been to taiwan?
it worked, eventually
about as fast as the CPC got things to work
>>7883874
*On a super small island that was 50 billion times easier to control
>>7883874
But the difference is the Taiwanese aren'tcommunist. The mainland has more interesting things to do than just stop at being a liberal democracy like every other boring old Asian country.
>>7883886
Also this.
>>7880415
lived there for years.
Your understanding is anecdotal at best and tainted by your expectations. You sound like one of the many assholes I met that made fun of squatting toilets despite the fact that they are just as functional and literally healthier to use.
>>7876372
CHING A LING TONG DONG WONG FANG YANG CHONG CHANG
I RIKEY DUMPRING VELY VELY MUCH
>>7884001
squatting toilets are the best
except if youre a fatass or inflexible fuck
>>7884001
That's exactly what I thought. There's westerners who go to China and deal with it, the bullshit and the stuff that's just different, whatever, and then there's westerners who find it almost existentially offensive that the country exists - who either make fun of it while doing their best to bang Chinese qts or purport a liberal outrage at every single thing (the kind of person who will go around showing ordinary Chinese pictures of the 1989 tank man to BLOW THEIR MINDS). Most people react one of those two ways.
>>7876469
>read some wuxia
Ok, let's say I wanted to do this. What's good that's translated?
>>7884241
The Book and the Sword is okay. Not great. I don't think Chinese, especially kung-fu translates well. Fight scenes are generally pretty dependent on rhythm and sound.
>>7884241
legend of the condor heroes
it's not the best but it's the best place to start
>>7884263
jin yong power ranking:
smiling proud wanderer
demi gods and semi devils/deer and the cauldron
ode to gallantry
flying fox of the snowy mountains
legend of the condor heroes/heavenly sword and dragon saber
return of the condor heroes
a deadly secret/white horse in the western wind/sword of the yue maiden
the twinned blades
young flying fox/jade blood sword
book and the sword
certain ones can be moved up or down a couple spots
book and the sword was his first and it was noticeably immature in many regards
>>7878940
>Babyface Jesus.
>Apostles flying gayly.
>Some kid going retarded.
>"Oh no it's The Lord™, I must avert mine gaze."
>Everyone is a body builder.
>Everyone wears fine silky Greek clothes.
>Everyone is at least two skin tones below what's needed to survive in the Middle East.
>Everyone is ridiculously overexpressive.
>The women look like dudes (if it's not one of those cases of Renaissance artists being faggots because muh Greeks).
No wonder Raphael is the worst Turtle.
>>7884311
Did you read these in english? I can't find smiling proud wanderer in english for sale. Should I just read fan translations? Thanks for the help.
>>7884311
ill do a gu long one too though i haven't read everything by gu long, but i read all of his major stuff and all the ones i havent read are guaranteed almost to be low tier stuff
多情剑客无情剑
边城浪子/欢乐英雄
飞刀,又见飞刀
七种武器
陆小凤系列 (in aggregate; certain ones are weaker/better)/三少爷的剑
绝代双骄
楚留香 (in aggregate; certain ones are weaker/better)
萧十一郎/大旗英雄传/流星·蝴蝶·剑
九月鹰飞/天涯·明月·刀
武林外史 (would be much higher except for one very annoying thing)
same deal as jin yong some stuff can be moved up or down a couple slots, its rough
>>7884327
no i read it all in chinese. wuxia translates very poorly but there are some readable-ish fan translatiosn for some of them. i know theres an incomplete smiling proud wanderer one out there, and there are official english translations of deer and the cauldron and book and the sword, possibly some other ones.
im almost certain there is a complete fan translation of legend of condor heroes somewhere but i could be misremembering.
>>7884337
yea book and the sword actually had an official translation instead of ghetto jank fan translations.
it sucks that deer and the cauldron has an official english translation because that one, while very good, is only really appreciable if you're well versed/familiar with the wuxia tradition already since it deliberately subverts tropes. so without knowing the tropes you probably won't understand why the book is so "funny" or what the "point" was
i wonder if i can convince a publisher to hire me for a jin yong translation project desu. that'd be a dream job.
